Guild Wars 2

It reduces the number of possible builds.
Why not allow us some more choices & individuality?

Because apparently it confused new players too much.

It’ll be related to elites I imagine. They don’t want people dipping in/out of an elite specialisation because that would completely defeat their point. So they went this route for consistency.

That’s my guess.

right! let us get 6 trait lnes -.-

Btw. two or three trait lines out of five have the most diversity.

1 out of 5 = 5 options
2 out of 5 = 4+3+2+1= 10 options
3 out of 5 = 1+2+3+4 = 10 options
4 out of 5 = 5 options
5 out of 5 = 1 option

Aleksander – I think the OP is asking to be able to do partial trait lines and mixing them, like we used to do, rather than asking for more than three complete lines.\

I actually prefer the new system. I can’t say how it impacts the strategic depth of the game for PvP, but I like the simpler, clearer choices available here.

Redenaz.8631:

Aleksander – I think the OP is asking to be able to do partial trait lines and mixing them, like we used to do, rather than asking for more than three complete lines.\

I actually prefer the new system. I can’t say how it impacts the strategic depth of the game for PvP, but I like the simpler, clearer choices available here.

i like the new system more either
with the old system, i almost run 2 complete lines with either 1/1 or 2 on minor line
the 1/1 isnt quite effective tbh
now i can run 3 complete lines
and it is simpler now and easier to quickly set up

I can see the old system could work here too… if that’s what you mean like having adept from another tree in sacrifice of a GM from a trait line you don’t like.

Also – warrior’s need our banner’s reduce cooldown and increase radius trait back.

New system all the way.

Different builds actually feel different now. For example power medi guard used to have at lest 4 possible builds (21614, 01616, 00646, 01625) and they all had the same core and then picked whatever traits they want with it like stabi, damage to burning dudes, rezz shield. But in the end no matter what you picked you actually where basicly the same build as the others.

Now as a medi guard you have less choices, you take Valor + Virtue basically always and your choice is to take either Zeal for damage buffs or Radiance for improved f1 + one hander skills. Whatever traitline you take your build will feel a lot different because of all the minor traits you get or lose.

So less possible trait combinations, more actual builds that are different.

As I was preparing for the change, I realized only one of my 80s (7/8 classes; necro just starting out) had “dipped” into a 4th line for a point anyways. I felt like I ended up with more. Having said that, I’m far from any sort of master class builder.

I like it, I think it is a much cleaner much easier to balance approach.

With that said, I thin limiting us to only three possible skills per tier is true limiting factor.

I would feel much more comfortable if each tier had 5 – 10 options instead. 10 is a bit on the high side, so 5. 2 additional traits per tier, per spec, per prof.

Steinpilz.5078:

It reduces the number of possible builds.
Why not allow us some more choices & individuality?

The number of “possible” builds isn’t a useful comparison. While you could create a build that has all the traits that affect signets, why would you if the build doesn’t include signets?

By limiting the number of trait lines, it’s far easier for ANet to balance traits and skills holistically instead of piece-by-piece. It’s also easier for them to see and/or correct potential interaction issues, since there are fewer permutations.

I can’t promise that ANet is doing a better job now of balancing, since largely that is a matter of opinion. I can just guarantee that “easier to balance” increases their ability to stay on top of things as the game evolves.

I, too, miss the subtle changes I could get out of putting 1 or 2 points into a fourth or fifth line. However, I’m enjoying working with the more interesting build synergies of the current system to worry much about losing some theoretically possible builds that have little value in actual game play.

Steinpilz.5078:

It reduces the number of possible builds.
Why not allow us some more choices & individuality?

My guess is that they did it for balancing purposes, since the elite specializations are coming in HoT and they didn’t want people being overpowered. Like most so far though, I’m liking the new system a lot. I like that I can see ALL of the traits on one screen and be able to read what they do, rather than looking at them one by one. Makes building much easier.

I’m glad to hear you all would rather less choice, because thinking is hard right? This is becoming a click and play. 0 thinking (cause that’s hard) to say we did not have a vast pool of options to choose from the old way would mean you didn’t understand and that’s ok (pats on the head) To say some of the traits were useless is total rubbish , actually you take more useless traits now being forced to take a full line and NOT being able to pick what you would like. some of the devs choices from us to pick from are just down right painful as well. making old builds obsolete and ushering in a new meta with no choice. good job

Storm.1653:

I’m glad to hear you all would rather less choice, because thinking is hard right? This is becoming a click and play. 0 thinking (cause that’s hard) to say we did not have a vast pool of options to choose from the old way would mean you didn’t understand and that’s ok (pats on the head) To say some of the traits were useless is total rubbish , actually you take more useless traits now being forced to take a full line and NOT being able to pick what you would like. some of the devs choices from us to pick from are just down right painful as well. making old builds obsolete and ushering in a new meta with no choice. good job

Must be troll? Really …

Maybe you don’t understand that out of over 140 possibilities we now have 27. Who’s the troll??

140 possibilities mean little if only 3 or 4 of them are viable.

If only 3 or 4 of them are viable, then we have some options.

a) re-evaluate those skills, make adjustments and look for ways to make them more dynamic and applicable in more combinations.

b) throw everything else away

Also there is a sort of “mini-game” for some players who enjoy the idea of “failure”. By that I mean, the ability to wisely understand the synergy between each skill and figure out how to combine them in effective and powerful ways. After you create a build (theory craft) and when you try it, it turns out to work well, you feel a sense of pride and achievement. You created something and you stake claim to your build and feel unique and more invested in your character.

TLDR
Right now, the sense of investment in the game has been removed for some players because the impact of their decisions has been reduced or removed.

Storm.1653:

Maybe you don’t understand that out of over 140 possibilities we now have 27. Who’s the troll??

I bought a house recently. There were literally hundreds of options. Just not them were VIABLE options.

Options don’t really matter. Viable options do. Do you have any evidence that there are less viable options now?

Storm.1653:

Maybe you don’t understand that out of over 140 possibilities we now have 27. Who’s the troll??

You can use 27 ….9 per track 3 tracks at a time ….you will have 6 tracks , 5 at present to give rather more than 27 …and you could never ever in any mixing matching get anywhere near 140 possibilities .

Choice is good agree but lets have usefull choice , and this change does that much more than before.

Remember all the hundreds of choices in GW1 most of which simply just took room and had pretty icons …

The trait system was not that bad but there was a lot of redundancy ..so overall the new system is a move in the right direction .

Are you kidding? The new system is WAY better. 3 full traits instead of a patch work job of 2 lines and 1 extra trait. The old system was a joke. Now I can switch in and out of trait lines before a fight. It is WAY more fun. This is single handedly one of the BEST patches Anet has done.

do you want 100 traits with 5 good traits out of them or 20 traits with 10 good traits out of them? more doesn’t always mean better. but variety doesn’t hurt too much if it doesn’t cost too much balance and debugging time, etc.

Choice is good as long as it is good choice. They can create 1000 different traits but in the end there will only ever be 5-10 good ones that ppl use. This new trait system is a lot of fun and there is sooooo much choice and diversity in the builds now.

In the old system I was always running the same boring traits. Now I am mixing things up much more than I did before.

You guys are arguing that the new trait system is good because the traits themselves are better.

We are arguing that the new trait system is bad, because it limits your ability to mix different trait lines together.

I feel the two arguments are not matching up or discussing the same point.

My major gripe about the new system is unbalanced opportunity costs.

Look at the trait Warrior’s Sprint, available in both the prior and current systems. It’s a 25% speed boost while a melee weapon is equipped. In the new system it’s also an immobilization remove if you use a move skill — which I do not remember being on the old trait. However, let’s say that one’s purpose in taking it in both systems was/is the 25% speed increase.

In the old system, the opportunity cost for the speed boost was the reduction of choice in other lines by 1/7 of the 14 points. In the current system, the cost is 1/3 of the 18 points. If none of the other forced choices in a line work for my build, that’s a significant increase in opportunity cost for making that choice over an adept choice in a line that does have other desirable options. Sure, I’m getting more points. However, I’m wasting trait points a lot more in this system than I did in the old one.

I find this change really annoying as it limits what I can do. At the same time I don’t mind the new “pick out of these 3 traits” system while some people might want to use two traits which are now exclusive. Removing the stat bonuses from the lines is a good idea but let us sacrifice a grandmaster trait to get a minor trait in another line. Either that or get your kitten together and fix the math on traits so that there aren’t completely useless ones with arbitrary numbers (10% here is nowhere near equal to 10% there).

BTW where the hell is the save/export/import feature from GW1? I don’t want people spend too much time swapping traits when their environment changes but rather just click once and swap into whatever they need at that point. Give us a default of 3 editable templates with more available for gems, then let us swap them out of combat but edit them only in non-combat areas.

simple = highly effective and very easy to balance.

less time spent on balancing classes = more time on other things like content.

trying to balance 5 trait lines and all traits linked between all classes takes a lot of time to do.

having set traits per line with lines designed to synergise with others makes life very easy for devs.

so what if u lost some stupid build that 0.01% of the player base used.

metas exist for a reason. they work and are good.

Good point krixis, metas exist for a reason.

The reason is that intelligent people were able to theory craft and derive meaning through multiple choices and figure out what skills/traits/classes are most effective.

What happened is exactly what you described. From GW1 there were hundreds of skills, which many were unused. So for GW2 they stated they limited the skill selection by weapons, to ease the development process and balance.

A few years down the line they again ease the development process and try to streamline balance.

We traded diversity and possibilities of new metas, for a diluted and “easier” time for the developers and/or people who don’t want to be confused by choices.

Is that a positive or a negative? For me a negative, for others it seems a positive.