Guild Wars 2

Because they have been fooled into thinking LS is a product of the game being B2P but in truth its a product of a persistent world the way most games are trying to go. So in there minds throwing money at something will fix there problems with the game. The truth is they just simply want a treadmill to give them something to do.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Then don’t play the game lol go quit right now if you really feel that way. What you sound like you want is a cookie cutter MMO, another carbon copy of WoW. You make Anet sound a lot worse than they actually are. I don’t think they are bad at all actually, I just think they have changed direction too much. They wanted to do something innovative by doing the LS and doing two week releases, and its really the first time anyone has done such a thing, to release content so frequently. Could it have gone better? Yes. I think one problem may have been that Anet put themselves in a position where they couldn’t turn back because they already the exact content they wanted to do for the exact storyline dating back to january 2013. Im just guessing, I don’t really know though.

Some people have already commented that the LS alongside an expansion would be nice. Id like to wish for something like that but I don’t know if Anet has the resources. I do know however that even during last year in the LS, Anet did state bigger projects were in the works in the background. The only problem is I wonder about the content in these bigger projects since Anet started them so long ago, maybe they learned many things from LS season 1 and the playerbase and perhaps the idea doesn’t sound so amazing now. I think people need to read the interview Colin made back in January.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

There are some good statements there from Colin. I’ll highlight a couple quotes.

This was in response to “And also as some of the really big projects we’re working on in the background come to fruition, we’re going to see a spike again in users.”(one chunk of a long response to a drop in sales, the projects they refer to are content).

“We have a couple of really big Guild Wars projects cooking in the background,”(In response to a question about Anet having so many employees yet so little to show in large impact content added to the game).

There is also more Colin says in reply to that question along with others about the future of LS and how it is delivered may not be the same.

The interview with Colin certainly creates the up-and-to-the-right positive spin one would expect of any marketing endeavor.

WoW as an MMO model is an interesting choice. WoW certainly expanded the genre and brought new marketshare by reaching out to players who had never experienced an MMO before. I’ve said this countless times over the last decade. However, it also set a new low in community, pitting players against each other since closed beta. Not particularly a model I would promote.

ANet has done some things very well. It borrowed and built on older MMO models for community and DAoC’s industry standard RvR concept. They even used WoW’s successful ease of solo questing for leveling (a new concept at the time), and creatively morphed that into GW2’s heart system.

However, as an entertainment business, design decisions were made that were misaligned with customer expectations. (I could spell these out, but that’s been done already several times in this thread.) These design decisions did not “delight” me or my guild. They interfered with our overall customer experience and enjoyment of the game.

That’s all my post said.

chemiclord.3978:

There’s a couple of factors, I suspect.

1) Simple familiarity. MMOs by and large are the only major genre of games that still cling to the expansion model. Most others have moved on to the DLC model that Arena.net is trying to modify for their use. Gamers don’t like it, because they don’t like change, and never really have. I’m sure there are a good many who reject the LS/DLC model for this reason (though they’ll never admit it).

2) For those that ARE willing to give this a legitimate shot… the problem is that while there’s no real reason the Living Story CAN’T provide expansion like content, the truth is that so far it HASN’T. Gamers are not only stagnant by nature, they are also IMPATIENT. They want more of the same, and they want it now NOW NOW!

They’re like the bratty 5-year old in the toy aisle in the supermarket, screaming at the top of his lungs, “I WANT THIS! I WANT THAT! I’M GONNA HOLD MY BREATH!!!” Temper tantrums are their go to response whenever they don’t get everything they want. Arena.net should ignore them and let them play something else, but they can’t afford to.

We’ll see an expansion. Question is will it be soon enough.

I don’t really think it is a valid comparison to say people want things NOW NOW NOW, when Anet hasn’t released an actual AAA MMO content patch in the past 18 months.

If people were screaming and crying after 2 months or just releasing an expansion then sure, call them whiners… but I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a real content patch after playing the game for 18+ months.

I know personally that after playing the wildstar beta that I will never play another one of these “F2P” MMO’s again. I’d much rather have convenience, regular updates, polish and more immersive combat for a measly $15 a month then have to suffer through 18 months of LS again.

If GW2 doesn’t announce a full feature expansion before the launch of Wildstar I am gone.

People are screaming for an expansion because they want new content. People still don’t understand that a paid expansion is not needed to give them the content they want.

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

SkylightMoon.1980:

The amount of threads on the forums and reddit related to expansion talk is absolutely out of control. It echoes the amount of blabber there was about this during the middle of 2013. A lot of people want an expansion because its what they are used to in MMO’s. I think wanting gw2 to be a boxed expansion game just like every other MMO would be pushing it into another cookiecutter MMO. I also think that if Anet saved all content they had now and kept working for the next 6 months to release an expansion in 9, that gw2 would plateau dramatically within the waiting period for this expansion. Players can’t have both frequent 2 week or 1 month updates and an expansion. Unless you want to wait another 18 months for an expansion since they would have to devote less people to this big project which would take them more time.

I don’t exactly know what anets playing for LS 2 are, and I expect the Living World to play out differently after listening to an interview with Colin. I think going back to 1 month updates may be a good idea. I do know though that feature updates will be completely separate from content updates after listening to Colins interview in January. This could mean that the updates we get are more chunky. I think the problem with 2 week updates is that you can only produce so much content for 1 months when you have a team of devs working for 4 months on it. 2 week updates make the updates feel to sparse, however they are frequent. Expansions are generally a bad idea because of how long you have to wait. I can’t imagine waiting nearly a year to get an expansion and then wait for 4 months inbetween more periodic updates.

I think the only reason certain people want expansions is because they are alienated by the experience of LS season 1 or they just have been shouting expansion since launch. LS season 1 could have gone immensely better if Anet just decided to put in more permanent content. If one of the four dev teams that worked in the living story content cycle was able to produce a new dungeon path, I dont see why the others can’t.

Explorers. There are many of us (myself included) who consider their playstyle to be explorational. Going to every corner of a map to discover lore tidbits and what not. Explorers haven’t had a new permanent map to explore in PvE for almost a year and a half. Considering that GW1 had 3 full campaigns and an expansion and introduced 4 professions in the span of 2 and a half years, that is a lot of waiting for us.

People are shouting for an expansion because a large playerbase is tired of being shafted by temporary content with very little left of it being permanent. The PvP community is just shouting for faster balance patches and bug fixes.

If you missed a LS update and didn’t get the meta achievement for a mine-able node in your home instance you missed your chance to get it. People want some form of end game other than pvp/wvw or to be in a giant zerg for 2 days every 2nd Tuesday. The aetherblade dungeon (temporary), and the molten test facility (again temporary) were great. They turned them into fractals (four of them, 2 being boss fractals). This is an example of well thought out content. Marionette as much as I hate to say it wasn’t as mindless zerg content. It required a bit of communication with people in chat yet was completely doable but still could be failed even when people figured out how to do it be it from lack of people or lack of communication between players.

Let’s just ignore the fact that ANet killed whatever competitive scene this game had (before it even began really) by not fixing traits/skills in a timely manner. Balance patches are to few and far between. I mean hell when’s the last time you saw an ele in spvp? When’s the last time you ever saw a vast amount of rangers? Granted they realized that a majority of their money earning potential comes from PvE players but it’s still not a reason to completely ignore balancing things.

For the past year (mostly) we’ve basically been a mindless zerg achievement point hunting group every other Tuesday. It’s gotten old. People want something different.
The only thing we as players have to blame is ourselves for playing this game but still some of the blame can be shifted towards ANet but not all of it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If GW2 doesn’t announce a full feature expansion before the launch of Wildstar I am gone.

Hope you enjoy Wildstar!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

chemiclord.3978:

There’s a couple of factors, I suspect.

1) Simple familiarity. MMOs by and large are the only major genre of games that still cling to the expansion model. Most others have moved on to the DLC model that Arena.net is trying to modify for their use. Gamers don’t like it, because they don’t like change, and never really have. I’m sure there are a good many who reject the LS/DLC model for this reason (though they’ll never admit it).

2) For those that ARE willing to give this a legitimate shot… the problem is that while there’s no real reason the Living Story CAN’T provide expansion like content, the truth is that so far it HASN’T. Gamers are not only stagnant by nature, they are also IMPATIENT. They want more of the same, and they want it now NOW NOW!

They’re like the bratty 5-year old in the toy aisle in the supermarket, screaming at the top of his lungs, “I WANT THIS! I WANT THAT! I’M GONNA HOLD MY BREATH!!!” Temper tantrums are their go to response whenever they don’t get everything they want. Arena.net should ignore them and let them play something else, but they can’t afford to.

We’ll see an expansion. Question is will it be soon enough.

I don’t really think it is a valid comparison to say people want things NOW NOW NOW, when Anet hasn’t released an actual AAA MMO content patch in the past 18 months.

If people were screaming and crying after 2 months or just releasing an expansion then sure, call them whiners… but I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a real content patch after playing the game for 18+ months.

I know personally that after playing the wildstar beta that I will never play another one of these “F2P” MMO’s again. I’d much rather have convenience, regular updates, polish and more immersive combat for a measly $15 a month then have to suffer through 18 months of LS again.

If GW2 doesn’t announce a full feature expansion before the launch of Wildstar I am gone.

I sort of feel the same. While I am not playing GW2 anymore and have no desire to do so, I do think it has a solid framework to build on if they change course. It is a successful MMO by all definitions of the word, and they are successful as a buy to play / free to play MMO, but I think I prefer to spend 15 /month(or 50 cents a day if you think about it people), for higher quality, more content, more “AAA” than what has been given with GW2.

From my viewpoint, arenanet rushes content out the door without properly testing it and without thinking it through. Their content is glitchy and theres still bugs from beta(mag in COF P1). Their content direction fostered the worst combat and gameplay I have ever experienced in an MMO. Unless this is how they envisioned it, they didnt think things through.

So I’ll pay for my MMO experience in Wildstar, and hopefully they will actually do some QA before rushing something out the door to meet a deadline like GW2.

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

You are not seriously pulling the WoW card are you. Just look what was added as content in between expansions.

It might have taken them two years till the first expansion but just look what people got:

http://wowpedia.org/Patches/1.x

How is what we got in the last 18 monthes getting even close to the sheer amount of content that was patched into WoW.

SkylightMoon.1980:

~snap

“Why must people keep shouting expansion?”

Because thats what many people want?

“A lot of people want an expansion because its what they are used to in MMO’s. I think wanting gw2 to be a boxed expansion game just like every other MMO would be pushing it into another cookiecutter MMO.”

You try to answer your own question here but no it’s not because other MMO’s do that.. The opposite.
GW2 is now just like every other MMO out there becoming a F2P game… or better said a MMO that focuses on the cash-shop to generate money.
The game got released as B2P game and that was one of the reasons some people where interested in GW2 a true B2P game as those people might not want sub-based of cash-shop based games. Now it has become a cash-shop based game anyway. It’s not the fairly unique MMO that works with expansions to support it’s content but just another cash-shop game turning it into another cookiecutter MMO as you will.

“ I also think that if Anet saved all content they had now and kept working for the next 6 months to release an expansion in 9, that gw2 would plateau dramatically within the waiting period for this expansion. ”
that purely depends on the content they produce but yes it might have a slightly higher drop in-between then the LS would have, in the long term however it might be abler to keep people longer because they might deliver better quality content that does not have to be compromised in order to get higher gem-sales.

“Players can’t have both frequent 2 week or 1 month updates and an expansion.” They are not asking for that. If anything many people ask to stop or at lease reduce the whole LS approach.

“Unless you want to wait another 18 months for an expansion since they would have to devote less people to this big project which would take them more time. ”
They indeed created a problem. If they don’t have anything it would indeed mean an 18 month wait while there already is not enough to do. If they did it correctly from the start the first expansion would have already been released, if many of the content was not behind a gold-grind people however would have been busy getting all that stuff up until that first expansion.

“I expect the Living World to play out differently after listening to an interview with Colin. I think going back to 1 month updates may be a good idea.”
What Colin said was pretty much the same he said at the beginning of the LS Season 1 with the difference of moving from 1 month to 2 weeks. For LS story season 1 Anet did not listen because they knew better, maybe they now do start to listen as they finally reduce the time between patches.. what many people including me said back when they told us they where moving to 2 weekly patches. But maybe they should also listen to the part where people ask for expansions in stead of LS.

What Colin said about the LS for S2 is what he said for LS S1. People gave them the whole season 1 to do so and Anet did not deliver. Don’t tell them to wait again but really start changing.

“Expansions are generally a bad idea because of how long you have to wait. I can’t imagine waiting nearly a year to get an expansion and then wait for 4 months inbetween more periodic updates. ”

Well as you can see many people have no problem waiting for a longer time, they even prefer it over the 2 weekly or 1 month patches. Besides, what usually happens (now I know Anet whats to do everything different but anyway) is that there will be one bigger patch inbetween the expansions and of course some regular normal patches.
If the content can’t keep you busy for that time there simply is a problem with the content.

“I think the only reason certain people want expansions is because they are alienated by the experience of LS season 1”
They have been asking for this even before the LS was really on it’s way. Back then the excuse was “well people don’t know what to expect from the LS but it will be used to release expansions-based content”. Now it’s “they are alienated by the experience of season 1” REALLY???

It was back around the time of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/first when people really started to ask for expansions.. Mainly because before that time they simply expected an expansion was on the way. So that was long before they got alienated by the experience of LS season 1.

“LS season 1 could have gone immensely better if Anet just decided to put in more permanent content. If one of the four dev teams that worked in the living story content cycle was able to produce a new dungeon path, I dont see why the others can’t. ”
Colin said pretty close to the beginning of LS season what that they did listen to the complains and where going to put more permanent content in the game. So you have already seen the result of that.

Xenon.4537:

Many of us want an expansion because it would mean far more substantial content than what the living story seems capable of.

I’ll try to list what we have gained since launch (in terms of permanent stuff), please correct me if I forget anything:
- ascended gear
- crafting to 500
- a new dungeon path to TA
- 1 new unique dungeon; fractals
- the LFG tool
- a smattering of QoL improvements such as the currency wallet
- 1 new wvw map
- 1 new zone
- a very scarce few new weapon and armor skins that weren’t temporary/gem store
- 1 new world boss (and one revamped old one)
- a couple new spvp maps

Looking back I’m actually kind of surprised by the list, but it’s still not what people expect in an expansion. Personally I (and I think most people) expect something like:
- a whole new continent
- a whole new personal story chain just as long (or close) as the original
- at least 10 new zones
- at least 5 new dungeons
- new armor and weapon skins for each of those dungeons and/or new events
- new open world dynamic events
- at least 3-5 new spvp maps
- a new (relevant to the new campaign) wvw map
—-And above all—-
- New playable race
- New class (or at least a slew of new weapon and utility skills, like 8-10 new skills and/or traits per class)

Not to mention all of this should be wrapped together in an overall package with a unifying theme, story, experience, etc. Not a disjointed series of unrelated patches that have nothing to do with each other until the last 4 or 5 patches where we find out the main villain is this crazy chick who we find out doesn’t even matter what her motives were…

I’ve said it before, but I think Anet simply doesn’t have the revenue to pursue such an expansion. NCSoft probably takes the lionshare of their gem store profits. I’m not mad at NCSoft though. I just wish they would see that GW2 has a passionate fanbase that deserves more and will pay for more if the content is up to par. But NCSoft is more interested in Wowstar it seems…

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

Maybe you forget the guild-missions. Then again they where not part of the LS and mainly added because guilds where simply missing things to do (missing feature). So that might have been added even without a LS.

What they also want to see in an expansion is some ‘new element / mechanic’. That can be many things. Personal house, house building, mounts, factions, mounted combat, mini combat. A specific new type of content that does not yet exist. Of course what one wants is different per person but any good expansion would add something completely new.

Devata.6589:

What they also want to see in an expansion is some ‘new element / mechanic’. That can be many things. Personal house, house building, mounts, factions, mounted combat, mini combat. A specific new type of content that does not yet exist. Of course what one wants is different per person but any good expansion would add something completely new.

Highlighting this because it will never exist. Theres no reason for mounts to exist in this game like gw1. You can map to any town you want/waypoint. Granted the waypoint you want probably isn’t open if you’re in Orr but there is generally a waypoint close to pretty much everything you want. I mean hell go look at snowden drifts north west corner and tell me why we need 3 waypoints all within 10 seconds of each other? 1 is pretty much perma-contested because it’s a guild puzzle waypoint the other 2? yeahhhhhhhh………..

Seriously, people aren’t shouting for an expansion (well at least I’m not) because it is what we are used to. We are shouting for an expansion because LS hasn’t delivered what we want. If I could get an expansion’s worth of content through the LS for free, you bet your bum I’d be asking for that and waiting impatiently for it rather than wishing for an expansion. I was excited about the initial LS idea and looked forward to it. The reality of what it turned out to be was a huge let down and extremely disproportionate to what I was hoping for.

Expecting them to actually deliver with the next LS season is foolish. Expecting it to be vastly different from what we got with LS season 1 is asinine. I’m not going to be happy with more of the same. It isn’t enough to keep me vested and interested long term. The only thing keeping me in this game is my guild and friends, not the actual game’s content. If they get bored and move to other games, so shall I.

I ask for an expansion because I know what I should reasonably expect from one based off of the Campaigns and EOTN expansion from GW1. They were amazing additions to the original game and added years of replayability to the game for me. That’s what I want from Guild Wars 2 as well, and if they could actually do it via the LS then I would obviously prefer that route. Season 1 tells me they can not therefore I ask for it in a means where they have delivered in the past and that is expansions/campaigns.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Devata.6589:

What they also want to see in an expansion is some ‘new element / mechanic’. That can be many things. Personal house, house building, mounts, factions, mounted combat, mini combat. A specific new type of content that does not yet exist. Of course what one wants is different per person but any good expansion would add something completely new.

Highlighting this because it will never exist. Theres no reason for mounts to exist in this game like gw1. You can map to any town you want/waypoint. Granted the waypoint you want probably isn’t open if you’re in Orr but there is generally a waypoint close to pretty much everything you want. I mean hell go look at snowden drifts north west corner and tell me why we need 3 waypoints all within 10 seconds of each other? 1 is pretty much perma-contested because it’s a guild puzzle waypoint the other 2? yeahhhhhhhh………..

I don’t want to turn this into a mount thread so will keep it short. But simply the fact that some people like to ride on a mount, collect them or to make the world feel bigger by reducing the number of waypoints in new maps and implementing mounts in stead would be multiple reasons to introduce them.

Plus there don’t need to be a need. There is no need funny looking hats you know.

However it’s just an example of a mechanic that does not exist in the game yet and could be a new mechanic that could be introduced at some point.

Does not mather if it are mounts or something else. In an expansion people would expect some sort of new mechanic, thats all I said there. Want to discuss mounts, go to the many threads about it.

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

The problem with persistent content is while it allows new players to play events that long time players have already experience months or years ago, to those long time players that content in stale.

How is fighting largely the same foes, surrounded by the same scenery, using the same classes, using the same skills, using the same game play as you’ve been doing for months or years less stale to long time players than having exactly those options plus new zones, classes, skills, game play options as well ?

Nice taking out of context there.

Persistent in my mind means same old unchanging zones. Sounds like you are agreeing with me that to old players those areas would be stale to them. Even if you add a bit of new permanent content here and there in the old zones the bulk would still be same old – same old.

This is like arguing what’s better, episodic TV where the episodes are relatively independent of one another and serialized TV where the episodes must be watched in order to understand the over arching story. ANet decided on the 2nd one. You are suppose to get into the story they are telling, not distill is down to just events with newish group X for treasure Y. I know, I know, to a lot of players games are merely mechanical exercises featuring twitch and memory skills. But that’s like reading a novel and spend your time breaking down sentence structure but missing the story being told. ANet is trying to tell a story so players would log in frequently to keep playing.

Let’s say they add Cantha. An entirely new area to level up new characters. New professions, new skills, new looking armors and weapons. What would you think would happen? EVERYONE will go there leaving the existing zones, even the current often populated ones, a ghost town. We will still have dodge as our primary damage prevention mechanism. And now ANet would have to be concern about balancing not 8 but 8 + X professions. As for critters, deep down they will still be reskinned versions of the existing skeleton models and animations.

So lets say ANet has been working on all this as well as the LS. How long do you think it will take until the hardcore players become bored with it? A month, two? Then it’ll be kittening about when the next expansion comes out.

“Many of us want an expansion because it would mean far more substantial content than what the living story seems capable of.”

No they don’t. Lots of people buy the expansion, play for a couple of months, and then suspend their subscription for the next 12 months until the next expansion. In those 12 months the MMO continually loses subscribers unless there is an interim release cycle, which is another way of looking at the living story anyway.

There is a reason there haven’t been innovation in the genre for years because the players are basically too_stupid_ to understand what experiementing is. ArenaNet is trying new models with the LS and it apparently didn’t work, leading us to taking a new path where the company tries to push the game forward all the time.

If you can’t udnerstand this, you may as well leave and play the amazing games out there. Not to disappoint you or anything, Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

You may as well state by this point, like all the other haters, that Anet paid the media to rate their game well, something that Blizzard apparently can’t because they are too poor.

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

There are a few problems with your idea.

1: WoW did release a lot of stuff in-between,

2: If GW2 would release stuff along the way and you would take your 19 of the 26 then we are are 3/4 of the way. That would mean we would have already about 3/4th of the content we would see in the first expansions of WoW. But we haven’t.

3: If GW2 would generate it’s income with expansions in stead of the cash-shop they can’t wait 2 years so the content released inbetween would be less then what you see i WoW but the game would get it’s first expansions at 1 to 1,5 year. So we would have already have had that (thats where there value would be). But we don’t have that type of content in the game. Now it might still be a little to early to say for sure. Need to wait to the first patch of S2 by then you can for sure say if they delivered or failed to deliver what they promised.

The thing we did see a lot of was temporary / cash-shop fluff. Because thats where there value is.

Quality wise imho they already failed and the promise of releasing content overtime (what you are also referring to) they also already failed because then we would have already had the 3/4 worth of a WoW expansions.

From a medical aspect: people need a way to release their stress, and shouting is one way of reducing the stress factor.
Shouting: Expansion! Expansion! Is a way for Canthanborns to lower their yearning for home. SO here I go CANTHA, CANTHA! (I’m done for the day, cya tomorrow)

Oh and stop talking about pay to play games like you even know what is going on in the genre atm. Guild Wars 2 in its current state is better than any Pay to play MMO out there. It is not a matter of opinion but a fact.

Now you can start playing Wildstart and when it starts getting bad reviews, blame Anet for paying the media. Apparently, thats the only thing they have been doing since Gw release.

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

The problem with persistent content is while it allows new players to play events that long time players have already experience months or years ago, to those long time players that content in stale.

How is fighting largely the same foes, surrounded by the same scenery, using the same classes, using the same skills, using the same game play as you’ve been doing for months or years less stale to long time players than having exactly those options plus new zones, classes, skills, game play options as well ?

Nice taking out of context there.

Persistent in my mind means same old unchanging zones. Sounds like you are agreeing with me that to old players those areas would be stale to them. Even if you add a bit of new permanent content here and there in the old zones the bulk would still be same old – same old.

This is like arguing what’s better, episodic TV where the episodes are relatively independent of one another and serialized TV where the episodes must be watched in order to understand the over arching story. ANet decided on the 2nd one. You are suppose to get into the story they are telling, not distill is down to just events with newish group X for treasure Y. I know, I know, to a lot of players games are merely mechanical exercises featuring twitch and memory skills. But that’s like reading a novel and spend your time breaking down sentence structure but missing the story being told. ANet is trying to tell a story so players would log in frequently to keep playing.

Let’s say they add Cantha. An entirely new area to level up new characters. New professions, new skills, new looking armors and weapons. What would you think would happen? EVERYONE will go there leaving the existing zones, even the current often populated ones, a ghost town. We will still have dodge as our primary damage prevention mechanism. And now ANet would have to be concern about balancing not 8 but 8 + X professions. As for critters, deep down they will still be reskinned versions of the existing skeleton models and animations.

So lets say ANet has been working on all this as well as the LS. How long do you think it will take until the hardcore players become bored with it? A month, two? Then it’ll be kittening about when the next expansion comes out.

Not necessary. If designed in a good way there can be a lot to do in old zones. You want that specific weapon? Well then you might need to do a quest-chat or a dungeon in that zone. Want to build something for a profession then you might need to buy parts from NPC’s in that area, you want get that cool mini then you might need to kill that one mob in that zone, you are a ranger and want that cool pet, that might be rarely seen in that map.

When designed correctly there can be many reason to revisit older area’s and have fun there. You know, a good RPG is about more then just killing the the strongest mob in the game.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead by about 14 million users. Not even counting Korean players.

Devata.6589:

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

There are a few problems with your idea.

1: WoW did release a lot of stuff in-between,

2: If GW2 would release stuff along the way and you would take your 19 of the 26 then we are are 3/4 of the way. That would mean we would have already about 3/4th of the content we would see in the first expansions of WoW. But we haven’t.

3: If GW2 would generate it’s income with expansions in stead of the cash-shop they can’t wait 2 years so the content released inbetween would be less then what you see i WoW but the game would get it’s first expansions at 1 to 1,5 year. So we would have already have had that (thats where there value would be). But we don’t have that type of content in the game. Now it might still be a little to early to say for sure. Need to wait to the first patch of S2 by then you can for sure say if they delivered or failed to deliver what they promised.

The thing we did see a lot of was temporary / cash-shop fluff. Because thats where there value is.

Quality wise imho they already failed and the promise of releasing content overtime (what you are also referring to) they also already failed because then we would have already had the 3/4 worth of a WoW expansions.

WoW also is a treadmill game and for GW2 to add in things that WoW added in over time would make GW2 into a treadmill game too. That what raids are for they are pure treadmills ppl would not feel that they need to get 40 ppl or so to do them if there was no stronger gear from them.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead with about 14 million users.

The asian market is different and I agree ofc that there are alot of games with far more players than Gw2 or any other MMO in the western market. It is a fact.

Talking about the western market though, the only big MMO aside from Gw2 is WoW, with everything from Rift to SWTOR sitting behind. Not even the beta-releases ESO and Wildstart can compete atm with first-impressions being average at most.

Guild Wars 2 messed up the LS stage sacraficing a faster coming expansion however temprary content didn’t work neither the whole model leading us to season 2 where we hopefully see better stuff.

Anet is experimenting with different formulas and I would rather play a game trying to take a step outta the box than a korean MMO popular for its population in the east but doesn’t have anything to offer the western market.

At the end of the day there is no title offering the same quality content of Guild Wars 2 and the player-base is basically starting to judge the whole game only by the LS which is very shameful and ignorant.

You get what you pay for.

nGumball.1283:

There is a reason there haven’t been innovation in the genre for years because the players are basically too_stupid_ to understand what experiementing is. ArenaNet is trying new models with the LS and it apparently didn’t work, leading us to taking a new path where the company tries to push the game forward all the time.

If you can’t udnerstand this, you may as well leave and play the amazing games out there. Not to disappoint you or anything, Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

You may as well state by this point, like all the other haters, that Anet paid the media to rate their game well, something that Blizzard apparently can’t because they are too poor.

Ah this one again. It’s the players fault and people are not prepared to move to new things. Same argument you here anytime something new is bad and people complain about it.

You see it in politic discussion but also have a look on IT threads about Windows 8.

People are fine with experimenting but they simply don’t like some things. They don’t like the LS for example.

You know what was also an experiment of GW2.. Jumping Puzzles.. go check the forums for all the complains about that. kitten people who don’t want to see new things.. Oow wait there are no complains about that because people do like it.. hmm so maybe it’s not the experimental part / new part that is the problem. Maybe they complain simply because it’s bad.

Maybe the problem is that some people or companies are to proud to accept that some experiments fail. Thats what you can get with new things and experiments.. they might fail.

With the LS many people did see that fail coming as they did complain since the beginning.

You seem to think that Anet did see there mistake (so you agree it did not work, then why complain about people that complained about it?) and is changing it now. The problem is that the talk about more permanent content is what people did ask for, for a long time and what Anet said to do also a long time ago and so we should have already seen. Would it be possible that they now finally make the change? Yes but people did wait long enough so it’s now to late for many people.

When did you see a number of concurrent players or active accounts of GW2 the last time?

How would you know how successful the game is? NCsoft reports tell us a different story.

ANet should have a plan and stop experimenting around. Players don’t want to be lab rats or beta testers for experimental content, they just want content. Good content.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You get what you pay for.

Yep, thats why I want to pay for a good quality expansion (and why I did buy the game) and I refuse to pay gems that indirectly help to reduce the quality of the game.

But Anet does not give me the option, they only try to get me to buy gems making the game worse in the process of doing so.

Devata.6589:

nGumball.1283:

There is a reason there haven’t been innovation in the genre for years because the players are basically too_stupid_ to understand what experiementing is. ArenaNet is trying new models with the LS and it apparently didn’t work, leading us to taking a new path where the company tries to push the game forward all the time.

If you can’t udnerstand this, you may as well leave and play the amazing games out there. Not to disappoint you or anything, Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

You may as well state by this point, like all the other haters, that Anet paid the media to rate their game well, something that Blizzard apparently can’t because they are too poor.

Ah this one again. It’s the players fault and people are not prepared to move to new things. Same argument you here anytime something new is bad and people complain about it.

You see it in politic discussion but also have a look on IT threads about Windows 8.

People are fine with experimenting but they simply don’t like some things. They don’t like the LS for example.

You know what was also an experiment of GW2.. Jumping Puzzles.. go check the forums for all the complains about that. kitten people who don’t want to see new things.. Oow wait there are no complains about that because people do like it.. hmm so maybe it’s not the experimental part / new part that is the problem. Maybe they complain simply because it’s bad.

Maybe the problem is that some people or companies are to proud to accept that some experiments fail. Thats what you can get with new things and experiments.. they might fail.

With the LS many people did see that fail coming as they did complain since the beginning.

You seem to think that Anet did see there mistake (so you agree it did not work, then why complain about people that complained about it?) and is changing it now. The problem is that the talk about more permanent content is what people did ask for, for a long time and what Anet said to do also a long time ago and so we should have already seen. Would it be possible that they now finally make the change? Yes but people did wait long enough so it’s now to late for many people.

Sorry if I explained myself poorly but no I didn’t blame the players for thinking LS is bad or any new experiementing. Obviously, it is not the player’s fault that bad content gets released and players don’t have to adapt.

My thought was that the players should know that if a company is experimenting and trying new things, fails have to happen. We have got alot of great stuff in Gw2 that we haven’t seen much of in other themeparks like exploration and mini-games/puzzles and all those casual but meaningful touches that add a special flavour to the world.

On the other hand, there should be things that were meant to go wrong as they are trying new stuff. Lastly though, I do agree that it took them a long time before actually editing the concept.

Guild Wars 2 via release was a huge hit and possibly the biggest in the western market since WoW however what they followed up with was a LS model that people didn’t really fancy, leading us to a whole year without any other kind of content.

I do agree with you on those points, however, I do believe that we have to give Anet credits for how polished the game was via release and they are trying to solve the issues now, hopefully pushing the game for the better.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

There are a few problems with your idea.

1: WoW did release a lot of stuff in-between,

2: If GW2 would release stuff along the way and you would take your 19 of the 26 then we are are 3/4 of the way. That would mean we would have already about 3/4th of the content we would see in the first expansions of WoW. But we haven’t.

3: If GW2 would generate it’s income with expansions in stead of the cash-shop they can’t wait 2 years so the content released inbetween would be less then what you see i WoW but the game would get it’s first expansions at 1 to 1,5 year. So we would have already have had that (thats where there value would be). But we don’t have that type of content in the game. Now it might still be a little to early to say for sure. Need to wait to the first patch of S2 by then you can for sure say if they delivered or failed to deliver what they promised.

The thing we did see a lot of was temporary / cash-shop fluff. Because thats where there value is.

Quality wise imho they already failed and the promise of releasing content overtime (what you are also referring to) they also already failed because then we would have already had the 3/4 worth of a WoW expansions.

WoW also is a treadmill game and for GW2 to add in things that WoW added in over time would make GW2 into a treadmill game too. That what raids are for they are pure treadmills ppl would not feel that they need to get 40 ppl or so to do them if there was no stronger gear from them.

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

Jski.6180:

Because they have been fooled into thinking LS is a product of the game being B2P but in truth its a product of a persistent world the way most games are trying to go. So in there minds throwing money at something will fix there problems with the game. The truth is they just simply want a treadmill to give them something to do.

There have been plenty of legitimate criticisms leveled against the Living Story in this tread and plenty others like it. That you decided to go strawman on strongly indicates you have no actual counter to the points you’re ignoring.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stats but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear (and so on) but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine as extra option). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

The gold-grind and LS route seems to be a route many people (including me) do not like.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead by about 14 million users. Not even counting Korean players.

Blade and Soul is the most generic trash I have ever seen. Guild Wars 2 had the right ideals but again, did horribly on executing them. Rewards are incredibly lacking as well.

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stat but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

Nightarch.2943:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead by about 14 million users. Not even counting Korean players.

Blade and Soul is the most generic trash I have ever seen. Guild Wars 2 had the right ideals but again, did horribly on executing them. Rewards are incredibly lacking as well.

That is your opinion, over 20 million people seem to enjoy it.

And the point was to show, that GW2 is not the greatest MMO on the market.

Who are we to say the Western market is the only right and important one. I am fairly curious how the release of GW2 in China will go.

All that beside, GW2 needs real content, people are bored or already gone. The LS was a disappointment, and most people do not even want a second incarnation.

So why is it, that ANet is against a traditional approach to delivering content, be it a big content patch or a real expansion. I just don’t see a good reason for it.

darkace.8925:

Jski.6180:

Because they have been fooled into thinking LS is a product of the game being B2P but in truth its a product of a persistent world the way most games are trying to go. So in there minds throwing money at something will fix there problems with the game. The truth is they just simply want a treadmill to give them something to do.

There have been plenty of legitimate criticisms leveled against the Living Story in this tread and plenty others like it. That you decided to go strawman on strongly indicates you have no actual counter to the points you’re ignoring.

No sry i am just explaining what the LS is and how ppl are fooling them self into thinking LS are base off of something comply different. Ppl realty got to get out of that point of view money fixes every thing what i am trying to say.

The Legitimate criticisms give the LS its worth as in “you can only do this for a set amount of time.” If you do not like the story that one thing but to chose an expansion over a LS is comply foolish. The best way of thinking about it is to have the starting city in GW1 there even after it was destroyed at the start of the game. THAT is more in line of a expansion set up an LS would let not let you go back.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Nightarch.2943:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead by about 14 million users. Not even counting Korean players.

Blade and Soul is the most generic trash I have ever seen. Guild Wars 2 had the right ideals but again, did horribly on executing them. Rewards are incredibly lacking as well.

That is your opinion, over 20 million people seem to enjoy it.

And the point was to show, that GW2 is not the greatest MMO on the market.

Who are we to say the Western market is the only right and important one. I am fairly curious how the release of GW2 in China will go.

All that beside, GW2 needs real content, people are bored or already gone. The LS was a disappointment, and most people do not even want a second incarnation.

So why is it, that ANet is against a traditional approach to delivering content, be it a big content patch or a real expansion. I just don’t see a good reason for it.

Quality wise it is the greatest. We all know what those korean MMOs offer and the western market doesn’t accept them. If you like gear tradmill though, it is not about quality anylonger but personal preferences and Gw2 isn’t for you.

What is ignorant in this thread, is that a whole game gets critisized as trash becasue of one aspect.

ls is made so they can use the gems selling so they can make money there is nothing evil in that but honestly i dont like anything in the gem store to buy and the ls content is pure junk for me i need new zones and new skills dungeons etc to keep me entertained and pls ill buy gems to support arena net if they give us expansion

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Nightarch.2943:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

Wut?

Name another title, lol

GW2 is a little fish in a big pool full of sharks.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/09/blade-and-soul-surpasses-1-8-million-concurrent-users-in-china/

Seems to be ahead by about 14 million users. Not even counting Korean players.

Blade and Soul is the most generic trash I have ever seen. Guild Wars 2 had the right ideals but again, did horribly on executing them. Rewards are incredibly lacking as well.

That is your opinion, over 20 million people seem to enjoy it.

And the point was to show, that GW2 is not the greatest MMO on the market.

Who are we to say the Western market is the only right and important one. I am fairly curious how the release of GW2 in China will go.

All that beside, GW2 needs real content, people are bored or already gone. The LS was a disappointment, and most people do not even want a second incarnation.

So why is it, that ANet is against a traditional approach to delivering content, be it a big content patch or a real expansion. I just don’t see a good reason for it.

Still doesn’t mean it’s good if it has a lot of people playing it. Cutesy anime nuts that like to act like air planes that love fighting with large oversized cardboard box cut-out weapons. That’s fine lol, whatever floats their boat.

Basing success on numbers in asian games, lol. Like we don’t know that 90% of the asian MMOs are over-populated in China. If all had nice content, MMO sites should close down and you with your friends should start to analyze MMOs from now on because you seem to be the most educated one about the MMO industry here.

Going as low as to compare asian grinding fests that we have at least 100s of with titles like WoW and Gw2, isn’t only childish but makes me wish I didn’t comment in this thread because I starting to feel ashamed. My last post. Enjoy your asian grind fests, lmao xD

nGumball.1283:

Quality wise it is the greatest. We all know what those korean MMOs offer and the western market doesn’t accept them. If you like gear tradmill though, it is not about quality anylonger but personal preferences and Gw2 isn’t for you.

What is ignorant in this thread, is that a whole game gets critisized as trash becasue of one aspect.

Quality wise? We have still tons of bugs some of them from even before release. The mesmer class alone can fill a whole patch notes worth with them.

The quality of the current update is abysmal, half of the stuff didn’t work at all the first day, and some stuff took a week to fix (of content that exists two weeks).

Bashing other games won’t help. They are successful because they convince their customers. GW2 seems to fail on that topic.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stat but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

I’m not sure why you keep talking about the raid example. I don’t say they should use raids for this. WoW does not lock everything bahind raids and GW2 should also not do that.

About everybody getting the same skin. Well if there would be this one thing to go for everybody did yes but if one skin would require a specific dungeon, one skin would require a specific mob to farm, another skin requires a specific craft on a specific level and so on.

Then not everybody will have the same things because it’s not some generic drops everybody gets but you really are working towards that what you want.

Same could be with gear and stats. Of course there is only one max stat (meaning all those people want the same) so if you go for that then yes those people will all end up with the same stats.

Gele.2048:

ls is made so they can use the gems selling so they can make money there is nothing evil in that but honestly i dont like anything in the gem store to buy and the ls content is pure junk for me i need new zones and new skills dungeons etc to keep me entertained and pls ill buy gems to support arena net if they give us expansion

Well if they would sell you an expansion you could pay them that way for that content you want.

Thats why I will only pay for an expansions.

I also remember something about you would be able to vote with your wallet so I did, I did buy the game (CE even) then I did not buy any gems but still waiting to be able to vote again for an expansion.
Sadly less and less interest in doing that because of the current state of the game. But I do wonder if there are more people willing to pay expansions / box sales then there are people willing to buy gems.. In a way we of course we already know the answer. Pretty much everybody in this game did buy the game but only a selection of the people did buy gems.

So if anything the votes go foe box-sales but they don’t do anything with those votes. So far for you can vote with your wallet.

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stat but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

I’m not sure why you keep talking about the raid example. I don’t say they should use raids for this. WoW does not lock everything raids raids and GW2 should also not do that.

About everybody getting the same skin. Well if there would be this one thing to go for everybody did yes but if one skin would require a specific dungeon, one skin would require a specific mob to farm, another skin requires a specific craft on a specific level and so on.

Then not everybody will have the same things because it’s not some generic drops everybody gets but you really are working towards that what you want.

Same could be with gear and stats. Of course there is only one max stat (meaning all those people want the same) so if you go for that then yes those people will all end up with the same stats.

I am talking on the lines that WoW updates that ppl like to call meet where the ones with raids on them.

If you do an even in GW2 every one may get the item they want on the first try that is unlikely but it can happen or happen to different number of ppl each run for the big events if you lose 5 ppl of say your 40 you need to replaces though if you did not get the item or you feel the need to keep rerunning it.

If you play an mmorpg with a super cool skin you will see in time every one get it but if you have a LS or better put persistent world you will see ppl with skins that new players will ask you what is that on your back (South sun back skin i get /w from time to time asking about it) what happens here now this item has made your hero truly unique in GW2. For a mmorpg to do this is an accompaniment like no other it makes the mmorpg feel like its a real world (keep in mind in doing so you have the same problems as you would have in the real world).

What it all comes down to is LS make you as a player make a chose an expansion there is no chose.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

~

~

~

That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

I’m not sure why you keep talking about the raid example. I don’t say they should use raids for this. WoW does not lock everything raids raids and GW2 should also not do that.

About everybody getting the same skin. Well if there would be this one thing to go for everybody did yes but if one skin would require a specific dungeon, one skin would require a specific mob to farm, another skin requires a specific craft on a specific level and so on.

Then not everybody will have the same things because it’s not some generic drops everybody gets but you really are working towards that what you want.

Same could be with gear and stats. Of course there is only one max stat (meaning all those people want the same) so if you go for that then yes those people will all end up with the same stats.

I am talking on the lines that WoW updates that ppl like to call meet where the ones with raids on them.

If you do an even in GW2 every one may get the item they want on the first try that is unlikely but it can happen or happen to different number of ppl each run for the big events if you lose 5 ppl of say your 40 you need to replaces though if you did not get the item or you feel the need to keep rerunning it.

If you play an mmorpg with a super cool skin you will see in time every one get it but if you have a LS or better put persistent world you will see ppl with skins that new players will ask you what is that on your back (South sun back skin i get /w from time to time asking about it) what happens here now this item has made your hero truly unique in GW2. For a mmorpg to do this is an accompaniment like no other it makes the mmorpg feel like its a real world (keep in mind in doing so you have the same problems as you would have in the real world).

What it all comes down to is LS make you as a player make a chose an expansion there is no chose.

I am sorry but I have to disagree and I am somebody who likes to have a unique char as I am more interested in skins (and such) then in stats like I said before.

If something stays available it does not mean everybody will have it. I don’t know every item in WoW but I know there are some mini’s in the game that where there since day one, are still able to get, are very good looking but you only see a few people with them and they will still get people asking (where did you get that).

Same can be true for skins. Like I said, it all depends how you lock it. If there are many skins (so not like the legendary stuff) in the game but they all require a specific ways to get them only the person who really wants it will go for it. That is why it’s rare. Not because it’s temporary.. yeah that might also make it rare.

Yes now in GW2 you might see people with a nice item, you ask them where did you get it they say …… and you can’t get it anymore.

That means 2 things. 1 you are frustrated you can’t get it anymore, 2 you would else maybe go for that item (playing the game.. going to do that route) but now well you don’t… thats now none existing end-content.

It also means something else.. People feel forced to do that temporary content to get those items because else they might miss out on them and then they will never get it. That means it feels like work and it means people will burn out faster. This is then also what I see as the biggest problem with the LS.

At best at some point you might stop caring about it completely (those achievements and rewards). At least it does then not feel like work and won’t burn you out anymore but as you don’t care about it, it also does not offer you good playtime anymore.

Temporary (so unique / rare) content, achievements and rewards people feel required to go for week after week after week after week might be the main problem of the LS.