Guild Wars 2

60 of any dungeon token = 1 Dungeon Shard.
100 Fractal Relics = 1 Fractal Shard.

10 Dungeon Shards + 2 Fractal Shard + 50 ectos + 1 Eldritch Scroll = Ascended Gear.

Simple and you got your players playing everything. Not just fractals.

Why not?

And still grindy as hell so it would perfectly fit Arena Net’s new philosophy.

Because then people would run the dungeons that they enjoy, not the skinner box ANET wants them to run.

Keiran.1896:

60 of any dungeon token = 1 Dungeon Shard.
100 Fractal Relics = 1 Fractal Shard.

10 Dungeon Shards + 2 Fractal Shard + 50 ectos + 1 Eldritch Scroll = Ascended Gear.

Simple and you got your players playing everything. Not just fractals.

Why not?

Still far too grindy, you realize that 50 ectos cost a fortune for most players? Swop 50 ectos for 50 T6 mats, and that would work so most players will be able to get them. Lets face it, farming 50 T6 mats is significantly easier than farming 50 ectos or farming the cash to buy 50 ectos.

once again, you want the reward without the work

Perhaps because we don’t consider ascended eq to be reward, but a tool.
Yes, i want to be able to easily get tools i need to have fun in this game.

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

There are far better ways to achieve the same results without forcing players to become gold farmers. You have to also realize, not everyone who plays GW2 has countless hours per day to dedicate to sheer farming gold – I blame Anet for not nerfing Plinx along time ago, this gave hardcore farmers far too much gold and as such, see casual players with very little gold as wanting the same gear for a realistic price.

You actually realize how long it actually will take to farm 50 ectos starting from 0g and 0 ectos? New players joining the game for instance will have actually no chance to ever catch up either. You look at the current supply and demand for ectos, soon the price will most likely hit 50s each and probably continue to rise until anet is forced, literally forced to flood the market with them.

The better method to gain ascended items would be the classic non-crafting way or via karma. Personally, I didn’t sign up to play GearGrind2 or GoldGrind2.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Because that’s what MMORPGs/RPGs are. You earn something nice and shiny. You aren’t given anything free.

nachtnebel.9168:

And still grindy as hell so it would perfectly fit Arena Net’s new philosophy.

There is no game that is not grindy as hell as you put it but the old point and click story games get over your self you just seem to dislike this type of grind over other grinds.

Any way back to the OP it seem they will be in time keep in mind only a few rings and a few backs are out if you look at the number of different types of exotic gear out there and the number of was to get them its going to take some time to put the new gear on the same level.

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

Dead.7385:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

WoW provided loot on a weekly basis at an RNG rate. I think I’d much rather grind for something that I know I will receive than grind a raid once a week and pray to the RNG Gods I get it.

At least GW2 isn’t putting daily limits on how often we can farm/run a dungeon.

Aleaf.8174:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Because that’s what MMORPGs/RPGs are. You earn something nice and shiny. You aren’t given anything free.

That would be a fair response if we were talking about any other MMO. But for GW2 ANET promised us a different game, which is why so many people with less available time bought it.

So now we come to the question: Why must MMOs be like that ?
Why can’t ANET produce the game they promised ?

Aleaf.8174:

Dead.7385:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

WoW provided loot on a weekly basis at an RNG rate. I think I’d much rather grind for something that I know I will receive than grind a raid once a week and pray to the RNG Gods I get it.

At least GW2 isn’t putting daily limits on how often we can farm/run a dungeon.

Is a daily roll of the RNG for an Ascended ring significantly better ?

Keiran.1896:

60 of any dungeon token = 1 Dungeon Shard.
100 Fractal Relics = 1 Fractal Shard.

10 Dungeon Shards + 2 Fractal Shard + 50 ectos + 1 Eldritch Scroll = Ascended Gear.

Simple and you got your players playing everything. Not just fractals.

Why not?

What “Players playing everything” ???

They will be grinding instances/dungeons like in every WoW Wannabe MMO yes but NOT “playing everything”.

Im sure this is what will happen too with the overhaul of Dungeons and what they was reffered to “as adding them to other PvE content as well”

GW2 will be all about grinding instances in some form or shape just like LoTRO did with radiance and just like WoW is.

Crafting will be dependant on grinding instances too to get ingredients for the top gear.

Exactly why I left LoTRO and though that finally there will be an MMO for me and my friends with GW2.

An MMO about Open World, Crafting etc as well as dungeons/instances for those liking that, as well as instanced/battlegrouynd sPvP for those that likes that as well as kind of open area PvP with WvWvW.

Something for all tastes and preffered play-style and all rewarded equally.

Only 3 month in it is now like all the other MMO’s with Dungeons/instances being what end-game is all about. sigh :/

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Aleaf.8174:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Because that’s what MMORPGs/RPGs are. You earn something nice and shiny. You aren’t given anything free.

That would be a fair response if we were talking about any other MMO. But for GW2 ANET promised us a different game, which is why so many people with less available time bought it.

So now we come to the question: Why must MMOs be like that ?
Why can’t ANET produce the game they promised ?

Let’s look at other video game launches and things they promised their community:

-When SW:TOR was launched they promised a game that would “revolutionize the MMORPG Model.”

-When Mists was launched, they promised a much more engaging and challenging gameplay for their clients

-When Diablo 3 was launched, they promised to bring everything that made Diablo 2 into D3.

Yeah, people lie. A lot. That’s why every online game every released comes with that statement on the box “Online experience may vary”. If Anet wanted to, they can turn GW2 into a cash cow and completely piss off half the population while making all the moneys.

But that aside, why does MMOs have to be like that? Well for one thing not all MMOs aren’t. MMORPGs are (There’s a difference, especially from a gameplay perspective).

Now why are MMORPGs like that? Mostly cuz of the fact that RPGs are like that too.

Ever play a JRPG? How about Dark Souls? You don’t have things handed to you. You earn it.

Don’t find that fun? Well maybe RPGs, and in turn, MMORPGs are not your thing. Maybe you just don’t find playing a video game fun. Maybe you’re not a gamer at all. But I digress.

So why are MMORPGs like this? Because that’s the kittening genre. It’s like asking why Horror Movies are scary.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Aleaf.8174:

Dead.7385:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

WoW provided loot on a weekly basis at an RNG rate. I think I’d much rather grind for something that I know I will receive than grind a raid once a week and pray to the RNG Gods I get it.

At least GW2 isn’t putting daily limits on how often we can farm/run a dungeon.

Is a daily roll of the RNG for an Ascended ring significantly better ?

Once a week from 1 mob vs Multiple times a week against multiple mobs.

Yes. It is.

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

For me its not about not wanting to ‘work’ as you say. Its about not wanting to buy my way into them. So far, Anet only seems to reward players who buy gold or know how to exploit the system to amass a fortune. That makes me sad. I wouldn’t mind having to run the fractals if it wasn’t also going to cost me 100’s of golds to get them.

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

Why not throughout the game for everyone? Why dungeons only? Not everyone like dungeons.

Why even have them at all?

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

It would make sense, and something I’m sure Anet is considering. I’d say make it even easier like:

Dungeon gear X (Exotic) + X special item dropping from specific dungeon (perhaps acquirable as well from tokens to eliminate RNG) + X + skill point based item = Ascended Dungeon Gear with new looks

That way, the old dungeon gear is still relevant, while adding more options for players to get ascended.

How many dungeons award exotic rings or backpieces through their tokens? 0
How many dungeons award ascended rings or backpieces through their tokens? 0

Let’s wait till we get to things that have ever been offered in dungeons before we start demanding them in said dungeons. Accessories have always been a grind to acquire in this game with no venue of attaining them aside from either WvW tokens or Ecto chasing.

Meanwhile, how much content will you miss out on because of two rings and backslot? 0

As for what to do in the future, the Backpiece Prototype “growth” idea seems perfectly applicable to dungeon gear. Get the piece in exotic form and then with a gift of some sort, promote it to ascended. Would certainly give me something to do with my thousands of AC tokens…

My 3 gold could get me any accessory in the game before. I don’t find 3 gold a “grind”.

Though I do agree that armor/weapons are the only things you should get from dungeons.

Shifu.4321:

My 3 gold could get me any accessory in the game before. I don’t find 3 gold a “grind”.

Though I do agree that armor/weapons are the only things you should get from dungeons.

Well, I mean, I didn’t find the 20g for Koss on Koss a grind either. This is rather subjective. The point remains, objectively, that accessories and the backslot have always been limited in methods of acquiring. (Heck, you couldn’t even get the BiS backslot without grinding up guild percs, prior to this update.)

Now the backslot has several recipes available to all (plus the “free” prototype recipe approach), and can be reached any number of ways. Rings are a bit dumb being locked to RNG, I’d prefer them having a recipe as well.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

Themes of MMORPG

Pretty sure grind is a traditional part of MMORPGs. MMORPGs derived from MUDs which also held similar themes. Ultima Online, one of the oldest MMORPGs, have elements of grind.

Progression has always been a theme in MMORPGs. It’s the very nature of the game. You play the game as a character to progress yourself.

Sorry if you thought MMORPGs are something else. WoW does that to people.

Even 20g actually does take a while to farm, its not like you can farm up 20g in a few hours. Subjectively speaking, farming even 10g probably would take several days depending on how kind the RNG is being.

The major problem here, is that people are assuming based on there own personal experiences and not generalizing enough. Alot of the current rich players attained this two ways, either by cheating or farming Plinx until there eyes bled. The average player is not going to have much more than 20g, I myself who has 800 hrs on my account now, I have what amounts to about 60g because I refused to take part in Plinx farming, couple that with me not getting lucky with RNG.

Anet needs to look at concurrency for the amount of funds the average player has and work around that before settling on new content that requires crafting and luck.

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

Themes of MMORPG

Pretty sure grind is a traditional part of MMORPGs. MMORPGs derived from MUDs which also held similar themes. Ultima Online, one of the oldest MMORPGs, have elements of grind.

Progression has always been a theme in MMORPGs. It’s the very nature of the game. You play the game as a character to progress yourself.

Sorry if you thought MMORPGs are something else. WoW does that to people.

They wasn’t nearly as grindy though. Original MUDS wasn’t really grindy at all. SoE really was responsible for bringing grindfests to the US shores, and those was more or less modelled after early Korean MMos.

As for WoW, it really didn’t have any grind. You did the content up to 80, you then did dungeons for gear and ultimately raided for the best gear. Gold in WoW didn’t really do much, that was for really crafting and epic mounts.

EQ1 grind was more about progressing your character, especially through AA. Sure it was grindy, but you always more or less progressed.

Look at some games like Ragnarok for instance, that certainly wasn’t the first Korean MMo, but that game is among the worst for grinds in gaming history.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

Themes of MMORPG

Pretty sure grind is a traditional part of MMORPGs. MMORPGs derived from MUDs which also held similar themes. Ultima Online, one of the oldest MMORPGs, have elements of grind.

Progression has always been a theme in MMORPGs. It’s the very nature of the game. You play the game as a character to progress yourself.

Sorry if you thought MMORPGs are something else. WoW does that to people.

They wasn’t nearly as grindy though. Original MUDS wasn’t really grindy at all. SoE really was responsible for bringing grindfests to the US shores, and those was more or less modelled after early Korean MMos.

As for WoW, it really didn’t have any grind. You did the content up to 80, you then did dungeons for gear and ultimately raided for the best gear. Gold in WoW didn’t really do much, that was for really crafting and epic mounts.

EQ1 grind was more about progressing your character, especially through AA. Sure it was grindy, but you always more or less progressed.

Look at some games like Ragnarok for instance, that certainly wasn’t the first Korean MMo, but that game is among the worst for grinds in gaming history.

Legends of Future Past

First commercial text-based MMORPG. My dad played this when I was a kid.

The game included no level cap, a form of level based treadmill which indirectly included a form of grind.

Not Korean.

It doesn’t really matter, in the end its all apples and oranges. Comparing this to that, it doesn’t matter. What matters is what happens in Guild Wars 2, whether it has direct grind or indirect.

Opening up the game so everyone can actually achieve everything is what will save this game. Restricting content is what will destroy the game, nobody can say with a straight face that the current methods proposed by anet are not restricting content or pigeon-holing players.

The trick is time frame – You need to make it so the utmost of casual players can achieve the same as elitists, you just need to make it so the elitists reach there first without having such a large open gap in between so nobody gets bored and looks elsewhere. This is the trick and solution to fix the game.

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

nachtnebel.9168:

And still grindy as hell so it would perfectly fit Arena Net’s new philosophy.

well played.

nachtnebel.9168:

And still grindy as hell so it would perfectly fit Arena Net’s new philosophy.

Well it’s not like there was no grind to begin with.

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

Ferguson.2157:

Why not throughout the game for everyone? Why dungeons only? Not everyone like dungeons.

Why even have them at all?

This. This. A thousand times this. A lot of us aren’t ready to leave the game because of ascended gear, but because dungeons are the only way to obtain them.

Aleaf.8174:

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

There it is again, “over time”. Over how much time? When it’s ready? When ascended is replaced by Legendary armor? When most of the players that are tired of running dungeons for the ump-teenth time in their ump-teenth MMO are fed up and leave? When it’s too late?

Keiran.1896:

60 of any dungeon token = 1 Dungeon Shard.
100 Fractal Relics = 1 Fractal Shard.

10 Dungeon Shards + 2 Fractal Shard + 50 ectos + 1 Eldritch Scroll = Ascended Gear.

Simple and you got your players playing everything. Not just fractals.

Why not?

Perhaps because the whole system is still in the process of being implemented.

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No. Ever played Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale or any classic Black Isle games? Probably not. Those are RPGs and THEY NEVER MADE YOU GRIND. The best gears come from exploring, understanding the lore and dialogues, and killing a very hard boss. A boss that even if you grind (which is close to impossible since most dungeons dont respawn enemies), you are not gonna be able to kill it unless you use your brain. So, again, NO. The pinnacle of the RPG world are held by games without grind. The only work you do is working your brain to come up with a strategy to defeat bosses.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

Keiran.1896:

60 of any dungeon token = 1 Dungeon Shard.
100 Fractal Relics = 1 Fractal Shard.

10 Dungeon Shards + 2 Fractal Shard + 50 ectos + 1 Eldritch Scroll = Ascended Gear.

Simple and you got your players playing everything. Not just fractals.

Why not?

Perhaps because the whole system is still in the process of being implemented.

Is it that hard to put ascended gear on karma and dungeon vendors?

I want to know why the intern who just LOVED playing FFXI and whose personal hero was Ayn Rand was allowed to run ArenaNet for the holiday season, because the current monstrosity that is Fractals+Ascended that is ripping GW2 apart like black hole could not have come from the same people who wrote the manifesto for this game.

Why don’t you answer your own question and go into the game development industry and see exactly how many hoops you need to jump through and how much work it takes to get even the most measly of updates okayed and delivered to the customers.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

And there it is. You’re CHOOSING too ignore what they have said.

When it comes down to it, you have two choices:

-Accept what the company says and let things go.
-Choose to disregard what they say and wage a crusade against the game.

Either way, what you have to say will not change anything. They’ve already released it. There hasn’t been a mass exodus. There has been no signs of disgruntled customers outside of constant complaints from emotionally attached gamers (which isn’t bad to some degree).

And if anyone has had any experience in customer service, you’d know people are more likely to complain about bad things then to appreciate the good.

One of the reasons for ascended gear was to forcibly slow down progression.

Once they release the second set of ascended items, the first set will probably be made available via other methods, just like they said – ie, karma, WvW, dungeon tokens and maybe crafting.

Depending on what path they take for future dungeons, they’ll have to make ascended items easier to obain at some point.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

Why don’t you answer your own question and go into the game development industry and see exactly how many hoops you need to jump through and how much work it takes to get even the most measly of updates okayed and delivered to the customers.

QFT. The level of scrutiny that any comments or new content goes through must be incredible. Anything that they say or do is going to be overanalyzed and picked apart.

Mhyrria.4160:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No. Ever played Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale or any classic Black Isle games? Probably not. Those are RPGs and THEY NEVER MADE YOU GRIND. The best gears come from exploring, understanding the lore and dialogues, and killing a very hard boss. A boss that even if you grind (which is close to impossible since most dungeons dont respawn enemies), you are not gonna be able to kill it unless you use your brain. So, again, NO. The pinnacle of the RPG world are held by games without grind. The only work you do is working your brain to come up with a strategy to defeat bosses.

Did you ever have to level up for a certain boss to ensure you wont die? Ever need to completely search a dungeon from corner to corner to make sure you didn’t miss anything? Every kill a few mobs out of the way for that extra gold?

Congratulations, you’ve found the grind. Of course, in single player games you don’t need to implement a large grind (or time sink) since they have your money already.

MMORPGs are different in that they want you to keep playing (because the more you play, the more money you spend). This is the reason MMORPGs expand more on the grindy side of RPGs.

“But why do we need grind? Why can’t we just have less grind and more content?”

While this would be awesome to every extent, the problem is a few factors:

Time
Cost vs Consumption

First off would be time. Cranking out these small content patches is quite a handful: Making sure the art works well, they are (For the most part) bug free, don’t cause any crashes, tested and retested, ensuring the coding works well, making sure there aren’t any exploits to run; you get the idea. What we experienced in the 3 day weekend probably took the better time of a month just to have everything set. Not including the business format within the company.

Second is the cost vs consumption. Is it profitable? Would putting in a month worth of work be worth the revenue gained (and future impacts) on the game to help cover the company and then some? How long will this appease our customers? Before you forget, ANet is still a business and the priority of any business is to make money.

And that’s the main reason you have grinds in MMOs. Would it be awesome if there was another way to incorporate the grind so it’s not so grindy? Hell ya.

But people have tried it and failed, which is why we have the current business models you have now.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

How the kitten is that not solid when it comes straight from them? You people are just trying your best to have a reason to freak the kitten out and keep your conspiracy theories going.

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

Nope. RPG’s – as their name tells you – are games that entertain you by letting you play a role. Preferably as different from the real life as possible. Crpg’s have often lot of grind only because they had originally problems in converting RPG experience into a computer game. Some people may think this is part of a genre, but in reality it is just an old flaw they are repeating without even remembering where it came from.
RPG’s are not about achievements. They are about roleplay.

Which is a moot argument anyway – there is not very much of roleplay in today’s MMO’s. MMORPGs are not RPG games, contrary to their name. They have lost the genre connection long ago.

Veltoss.9135:

How the kitten is that not solid when it comes straight from them? You people are just trying your best to have a reason to freak the kitten out and keep your conspiracy theories going.

“Over time”. This may be a year after an even newer tier would have been introduced, for all we know.

Veltoss.9135:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

How the kitten is that not solid when it comes straight from them? You people are just trying your best to have a reason to freak the kitten out and keep your conspiracy theories going.

Indeed, but at least keep it civil on both sides.

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Im expected to work on games i paid money for?

Last time I worked, I was the one who got paid.