Guild Wars 2

Just like in the Guild Wars, players can click for movement. Why not bring back this option?

Left + Right = move?

magace.6140:

Left + Right = move?

Thanks.

right+left+hold = Move.

Actually hoping for a click to start a movement so that no Holding of any buttons are required to continue the movement and movement stops at the clicked position.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Actually hoping for a click to start a movement so that no Holding of any buttons are required to continue the movement and movement stops at the clicked position.

There’s the® Autorun button. As for “clicking for the place to go”, I see a lot of exploitability here.

Lishtenbird.2814:

There’s the® Autorun button. As for “clicking for the place to go”, I see a lot of exploitability.

what “exploitability”? But if it there, it would be accessible for everyone and that would make it fair and increase the playability of the game.

Because clicking is an inferior movement method in an action game and requires the implementation and maintaining of smart pathing which is actually more work than most people are aware of.

Lord of Rings.5371:

what “exploitability”? But if it there, it would be accessible for everyone and that would make it fair and increase the playability of the game.

I’m talking about bots. Actually, I’m just mentioning them, because we’re not allowed to talk about bots here

gaspara.4079:

Because clicking is an inferior movement method in an action game and requires the implementation and maintaining of smart pathing which is actually more work than most people are aware of.

And this – just take a look at the hilarious pathing of ranger pets, necro minions, mesmer’s illusions. AI does not know about jumping over obstacles at all in this game. It would also require server resources – those resources which we’re already lacking with megaservers and have been lacking during LS.

And personally I think that adding point-and-go would just dumb down the game which has all-side dodging and stuff for a reason.

GW2 is meant to be an action game. They probably left it out purposely so people from GW1 wouldn’t stick with it.

The ability to jump also makes calculating paths much more complex. If they were to implement click to move, it would be the simple kind, where you run at your cursor, rather than like GW1, where you would run around objects.

Lastly, click to move would be nearly impossible to implement underwater. It would be the equivalent of holding left+right to move.

gaspara.4079:

Because clicking is an inferior movement method in an action game and requires the implementation and maintaining of smart pathing which is actually more work than most people are aware of.

Lishtenbird.2814:

And this – just take a look at the hilarious pathing of ranger pets, necro minions, mesmer’s illusions. AI does not know about jumping over obstacles at all in this game. It would also require server resources – those resources which we’re already lacking with megaservers and have been lacking during LS.

And personally I think that adding point-and-go would just dumb down the game which has all-side dodging and stuff for a reason.

Healix.5819:

GW2 is meant to be an action game. They probably left it out purposely so people from GW1 wouldn’t stick with it.

The ability to jump also makes calculating paths much more complex. If they were to implement click to move, it would be the simple kind, where you run at your cursor, rather than like GW1, where you would run around objects.

Lastly, click to move would be nearly impossible to implement underwater. It would be the equivalent of holding left+right to move.

Thank you for your explanation. With jumps and fall damages, “Click and go” would require a really smart AI and many be a long way to wait. I got used to this style of playing from the original Guild Wars, with 4000 hours spent in GW, really miss it here. Playing Guild Wars 2 is like using a going back to a blackberry after being on an Iphone with Guild Wars which is just as fun but less people playing it nowadays. There are just too much micro management requires for GW2 movement and fighting nowadays, and the only way to gloss over them appear to be through zerging.

ehm. do you mean pressing Num Lock. so it runs without movement keys?-
and when you get to the point where you wish to stop. you press it again or press the opposite direction.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Playing Guild Wars 2 is like using a going back to a blackberry after being on an Iphone with Guild Wars which is just as fun but less people playing it nowadays.

Pretty sure it’s the other way around where:
Guild Wars = Blackberry (or any other old smartphone)
Guild Wars 2 = iPhone (or any other new smartphone)

I hopped in Guild Wars not too long ago to see what bday mini’s I may have received and movement felt clunky compared to GW2. Just my opinion though. I miss locations in GW1 more than the gameplay and/or character movement.

In Guild Wars, a left click sets up a way point where a character goes automatically and holding a right click would pan the camera. Moreover, Guild Wars auto queues out of range skills that would bring the character within max range then automatically fire the skills. All these automation have to be micro managed in Guild Wars 2.

psyckos.6893:

Pretty sure it’s the other way around where:
Guild Wars = Blackberry (or any other old smartphone)
Guild Wars 2 = iPhone (or any other new smartphone)

To me
Guild Wars 2 = Blackberry (or any other old smartphone)
Guild Wars = iPhone (or any other new smartphone)

Good players in Guild Wars 2 are more skillful with keyboards.

gaspara.4079:

Because clicking is an inferior movement method in an action game and requires the implementation and maintaining of smart pathing which is actually more work than most people are aware of.

Not it’s not, it’s really easy and cheap. GW1 managed very well with the click to move system.

Sandpit.3467:

gaspara.4079:

Because clicking is an inferior movement method in an action game and requires the implementation and maintaining of smart pathing which is actually more work than most people are aware of.

Not it’s not, it’s really easy and cheap. GW1 managed very well with the click to move system.

Yes, yes it is.
3D Pathfinding = Really hard

Nope, many games do it, I have done it. It’s not even 3D unless you consider water movement but that is a problem with the UI not the maths. There are many well established algorithms, (start you googling with A*).

And I repeat, GW1 had no problem doing it all those years ago on much weaker machines so your argument is evidently falacious. Removing click to move in GW2 was a design decision not a technical optimisation.

Sandpit.3467:

Nope, many games do it, I have done it. It’s not even 3D unless you consider water movement but that is a problem with the UI not the maths. There are many well established algorithms, (start you googling with A*).

And I repeat, GW1 had no problem doing it all those years ago on much weaker machines so your argument is evidently falacious. Removing click to move in GW2 was a design decision not a technical optimisation.

Of course they have pathfinding working on “even” ground(how else would ai movement work), but unlike gw1 gw2 has alot platforming, which is a core part of the gameplay.
The way most games handle jumps is by using “jump points” that have been placed by the level designers, which isn’t really feasable in big worlds like mmos.

From a design standpoint having click to walk available would be a terrible decision, there are way to many problems with it:
1. You can’t jump over obstacles
2. Unreliable pathfinding in uneven terrain (big frustration for players)
3. Underwater doesn’t work since you cant click in 3d space
4. PvP players can easily abuse the terrain to have you walk around simple obstacles (have you ever played “kodo tag” in wc3?)

In conclusion:
Click to walk doesn’t fit with the rest of the games design and is unreliable, frustrating in uneven terrain and would have meant an unfeasible amount of work for level designers.

If you have implemented A* you should have known how hard it is to make it work nicely on arbitrary terrain.

As has been pointed out in this thread already, Guild Wars had an easy time with pathfinding because each map was effectively 2D (no z-axis). There were a few pre-determined and pre-designed cross-over points (such as bridges), but aside from that, the terrain was solely two-dimensional. There are plenty of efficient algorithms out there for 2D pathfinding.

Guild Wars 2 adds a legitimate z-axis to the game, where multi-story structures and platforming are common-place. This makes a trivial problem non-trivial. In Guild Wars, every piece of terrain that wasn’t walkable was a barrier, and if you really wanted to, you could draw a 2D system of simple walls that would be an accurate representation of a game map (A* is a great algorithm for this kind of problem).

Try doing that in a Guild Wars 2 map, where a two foot high retaining wall isn’t actually a barrier if you can jump, or where dropping 100 feet is an effective but not necessarily survivable strategy for getting from Point A to Point B in some cases. The problem is most certainly not trivial.

There is nothing about A* that says it’s for 2D only, it works fine for any number of dimensions and non-euclidean geometry. To say it doesn’t work for uneven terrain is wrong, besides all terrain cost in GW2 is the same. It’s click to walk, not click to auto-complete jumping puzzles so the terrain IS 2D as you can’t fly (if you could it would be even easier). An no, you couldn’t abuse it in PvP because nobody is suggesting removing wasd, just that some people would like a click to move option (available in any number of games so again, it is not hard, it is very easy).

And while A* generally does for many situations, there are also many other algorithms to suit different scenarios. This was a design decision (I have no comment on that) it is technically trivial.

Sick of this “it can’t be done” BS that ignorant people bring up every time someone suggests anything.

Sandpit.3467:

Sick of this “it can’t be done” BS that ignorant people bring up every time someone suggests anything.

On the other hand, some people are sick of half-blind assumptions of the feasibility of features in a game, the source code and documentation of which nobody who hasn’t worked at ArenaNet over the course of the game’s development has likely seen.

So it’s too hard for the game to automatically move to a point on the ground. Care to explain how the AI seems to be able to do it? Or how a ranger can click to move the pet?

It is already in the game FFS!!!!

I would also like click to move to be an option to enable. Handicap players find this to be a great benefit. I also miss auto follow/approach targets. Press a skill and character runs at the targeted person to get in range and attack. Click to move is basically auto run but no keyboard use. You can turn without spinning your mouse or using the slow A and D keyboard turn.

Aion also has click to move and you could fly, which is similar to under water. You click on objects and terrain.

Sandpit.3467:

So it’s too hard for the game to automatically move to a point on the ground. Care to explain how the AI seems to be able to do it? Or how a ranger can click to move the pet?

It is already in the game FFS!!!!

And what’s already in the game for NPCs might still be far too limited to adapt to players with any kind of ease. Have you ever noticed that when NPCs break their path to fight an enemy, they return to the very spot they broke from when they’re done, even if their combat has actually brought them further down the direction they were headed anyway?

Lord of Rings.5371:

Just like in the Guild Wars, players can click for movement. Why not bring back this option?

I think a part of this problem was that gw1 was an x and z (back forth/left right) plane while gw2 has x, y and z (back forth/left right/up down). But I see your point. Why not just only move for the x and z planes… There are a lot of conflicts with this including when you reach a cliff/gap/ridge/mountain or any change in the y plane (elevation).

I suggest just using auto run or just use the arrowkeys/wasd or whatever you want to keybind.

Sandpit.3467:

So it’s too hard for the game to automatically move to a point on the ground. Care to explain how the AI seems to be able to do it? Or how a ranger can click to move the pet?

It is already in the game FFS!!!!

Of course it is in the game.
But it is way to limited to handle all the terrain, the game has.
Yes, A* is just a node traversal algorithm on a graph, but sombody has to model this graph. It’s trivial on a 2d surface and it works relativly well for npcs in gw2, but from a game design standpoint it is still WAY to limited. It may work in 90% of all cases, but that is not good enough. Having features that are broken by design in your game is not a good way to design your game. And that’s the whole point of all my posts. A simple solution is technically “trivial”, but it doesn’t nearly cover all of the gameplay usecases. A solution that would work for the whole game is really really hard, which is one of the reasons there is no click to walk in this game.
Of course there are other reasons, like this feature going completely against all other action oriented designchoices in this game.

tl;dr:
Click to movement isnt’t a feature that could be implemented to work good enough to meet all the usecases, so it shouldn’t be and wasn’t implemented.