Guild Wars 2

Dear ANet,

Just curious, but why not make a standard DLC for every x amount of months that contains a 1xLS Season, 1xLegendary, and 1xMap (doesn’t matter which mode). Forget expansions. I don’t think xpacs work for GW2 at this point. I get that the hype train is larger for xpacs (big sales/happy investors), but why not hype the DLCs in their stead? Smaller chunks of work, that have a little bit of everything for everyone. Base it on a 6-8 month rotation. Ideally, if you could break it out on a 6 month rotation, maybe that would keep the people complaining about content at bay? Dunno. Just a thought. To top it off, sell a year’s worth of DLC (2 DLC patches) in a collector’s edition, and make more money.

PS – I still want the beta revnant weapon skins. Again, gem store, or whatever. Doesn’t matter.

Expansions tend to bring in new players.

that was how they did it initially, then people cry they want expansion, so Anet gave them expansion, but now they want the Living Story back ? lol Anet can never satisfy their customers, can they ?

Purchasable DLC would go against a core design of their business model, B2P. Buy once, own forever (unless you are a jerk and get yourself banned, of course). There was plenty of furor over their even daring to make a paid expansion, and a super long thread of people complaining that “I bought this game three years ago so I shouldn’t have to pay for the expansion.”

Your suggested schedule also goes against ANet’s ‘when it’s ready’ release dates. They move their project focus around and they don’t ship something just because it’s time to ship something, anything at all, so shove something out the door. (Ideally. There are those who argue that the content feels shallow and rushed).

Primarily, however, it’s the no future costs promise that would be wrecked by converting to paid DLC. “What do you mean I can’t go farm SW just because I didn’t buy the LS2 package?” That sort of thing.

azizul.8469:

that was how they did it initially, then people cry they want expansion, so Anet gave them expansion, but now they want the Living Story back ? lol Anet can never satisfy their customers, can they ?

Pretty much this.

Honestly I would love for them to push out expansions like guild wars 1 did, it was not to much and not to little. As long as it brings them money so they can refine then game ill be happy.

Ryou.2398:

Honestly I would love for them to push out expansions like guild wars 1 did, it was not to much and not to little. As long as it brings them money so they can refine then game ill be happy.

GW1 has three stand-alone games (you don’t need the others to play Prophecies, Factions, or Nightfall) and one expansion (Eye of the North). They suffered a lot of the same issues and growing pains as GW2’s expac: people thought they were too easy, too little, too much, unbalanced the game, created a pay-to-win situation, and so on.

We remember the great stuff (of which there was much) and forget some of the issue at launch of each new iteration (re-gearing and recovering upgrades was a nightmare that they had to completely overhaul, there are still weird situations in which identically named items do something different, depending on in which ‘game’ they drop, etc).

The short of it is that any system that ANet uses is going to find fanbois and haters. There’s good (and bad) about DLC, subscription, expac, and relying on the gem shop entirely.

My preference is that — whatever they do — they try to find some way to be consistent about how much ‘stuff’ they provide (for free and behind a pay wall). The game is still suffering from their decision to focus all the company’s attention on just one thing (the expac) — veterans are still starved for content and many feel that the expac was little more than an appetizer and are still waiting for their main course to arrive.

tl;dr I don’t think there’s any easy route for ANet to return us to what we now consider the glory days of this game. It’s going to take a lot of work and stellar releases plus patience on our part and it’s not a sure thing, no matter what system they use to maintain revenue and bring in new players.

Donari.5237:

Purchasable DLC would go against a core design of their business model, B2P. Buy once, own forever (unless you are a jerk and get yourself banned, of course). There was plenty of furor over their even daring to make a paid expansion, and a super long thread of people complaining that “I bought this game three years ago so I shouldn’t have to pay for the expansion.”

Well… There are also many players coming from GW1 who loved the business model (extension / campaign based) and who have really mixed feelings (to be polite) about the gemstore… And in the meantime, the forum is swarmed with people begging for more items to buy for real money who would refuse to pay $30 for an expac (at least that’s what they say, because we all know they will buy the next one).

The bottom line is… You can’t please everyone. And I’m not sure trying to find some sort of middle ground as Anet does can work. At the end of the day, it’s their choice, not mine or anyone’s on the forum.

Sir Mad.1092:

Well… There are also many players coming from GW1 who loved the business model (extension / campaign based) and who have really mixed feelings (to be polite) about the gemstore… And in the meantime, the forum is swarmed with people begging for more items to buy for real money who would refuse to pay $30 for an expac (at least that’s what they say, because we all know they will buy the next one).

The bottom line is… You can’t please everyone. And I’m not sure trying to find some sort of middle ground as Anet does can work. At the end of the day, it’s their choice, not mine or anyone’s on the forum.

I’m aware of that, and i agree.

Its like comic book companies. Back when i followed several different comics in the 90s, the big thing was getting monthly issues of some comics “out” in time to meet that monthly date that they promised to deliver on, was a real hard chore for some companies.

As i got older, i realized the issue was that these companies had hired artists based more so on skill, than on speed. So even though the artist was amazing, it took them 15 extra days to produce the artwork for a comic book, than a lesser artist, who could bang it out in 10.

It made for some of the greatest, and most memorable books, but when you look back at it, you were getting a bi-monthly book, which was supposed to be monthly. In terms of pleasing people, it was the same situation as we see here, with some people happy they get something of quality, and others that complain it wasn’t fast enough.

Donari.5237:

Purchasable DLC would go against a core design of their business model, B2P. Buy once, own forever (unless you are a jerk and get yourself banned, of course). There was plenty of furor over their even daring to make a paid expansion, and a super long thread of people complaining that “I bought this game three years ago so I shouldn’t have to pay for the expansion.”

B2P doesn’t mean you won’t have to pay for new content, it just means you don’t have pay a subscription fee like you do for WoW ontop of buying the game.The only business model where you don’t normally pay for new content is Free to Play.

Ryou.2398:

Honestly I would love for them to push out expansions like guild wars 1 did, it was not to much and not to little. As long as it brings them money so they can refine then game ill be happy.

Although they never said it directly the impression I got from announcements at the time was that they made the decision to stop development on GW1 and create a sequel instead partially because that system was unsustainable.

They couldn’t continue to make new campaigns, expansions, whatever you want to call them, fast enough to earn enough money to pay the people they had making them so they needed to change the system.

I admit I don’t like ‘microtransactions’ or paying for small updates (commonly called DLC), it feels like I’ve paid full price for a ‘starter pack’ game and then I have to keep on paying out over and over to actually get the full thing. I much prefer to buy a game and get a full games worth of content and then maybe buy expansions that are a full ‘pack’ – a self-contained storyline, new items, new areas, maybe new skills/classes/races etc. in their own right.

But I feel like Anet have done a really good job of reaching a compromise. They could so easily have gone down the route Blizzard and many others did of charging a subscription and releasing paid expansions and having a cash shop. (In this case it would literally be the easiest option too since Anet’s founders left Blizzard as WoW was being developed, they could have just stayed there.)

Or they could have gone the “free” to play route and charged for every little thing separately.

Instead they’ve gone for what I think often feels like a much more difficult but much better ‘middle ground’. I think I did get a full game for the price I paid, and (in a round-about way) I think HoT was worth the price too. Everything sold in the gem store is optional and can be bought with gold if you don’t want to spend real money (I do both, depending on which I think is best at the time). It’s more complicated but I think it works well.

I do sometimes wish their release schedule was more consistent, but then another thing I really like about Anet is their willingness to experiment, to question everything they do with the game and try new things instead of simply doing it the way it’s always been done because that’s how it’s done and I feel like overall that’s a better option than picking a single strategy and sticking to it no matter what.

I’d love for them to do it that way. 1 new map+ a few LS chapters +1 dungeon/fractal/raid wing +1 new legendary weapon.
A few of these around the year and I’d be really happy. I prefer shorter but more often new content than wating years for a lot of content.

azizul.8469:

that was how they did it initially, then people cry they want expansion, so Anet gave them expansion, but now they want the Living Story back ? lol Anet can never satisfy their customers, can they ?

“They” might be different people…

Expansions should drive up hype, press, and bring in players. Heart of Thorns is what brought me + 5 people back for the long haul. Prior to HoT, I played for a month. I am not 8 months in and loving the game and the diversity it brings in playstyles and entertainment. I hope they continue with the expansion model. Although, small DLC packs wouldn’t be a bad idea in-between expansions.

Everyone is correct however ignoring a basic issue

This is Arenanet but it’s not the same company that made GW1 or rather the same staff and you can’t expect GW1 style quality from GW2. Expansions or DLC both methods are perfectly fine when done properly.

People ask for another method when their not satisfied but if a company can’t satisfy your desires with one method they typically won’t do much better with another. The DLC was unfulfilling people wanted larger maps tehy wanted Cantha and Elona so they asked for an expansion to add many new skills, gear, areas, and mechanics.

However they couldn’t handle that and even the fix came months after the launch even SAB felt like a bone to hold people over instead of a gift. I don’t think they will do well with either method. We don’t even have any info on the summer patch are they holding it for Legion release or more game events maybe some big esports announcement.

Until we know more about this next quarterly patch I remain skeptical but people will continue crying for either method because they seek something that could be possible with a better companion but they have to remember what we’ve seen these last four years and what to expect. If we were ever satisfied no one would be asking for either.

Doam.8305:

Everyone is correct however ignoring a basic issue

This is Arenanet but it’s not the same company that made GW1 or rather the same staff and you can’t expect GW1 style quality from GW2. Expansions or DLC both methods are perfectly fine when done properly.

People ask for another method when their not satisfied but if a company can’t satisfy your desires with one method they typically won’t do much better with another. The DLC was unfulfilling people wanted larger maps tehy wanted Cantha and Elona so they asked for an expansion to add many new skills, gear, areas, and mechanics.

However they couldn’t handle that and even the fix came months after the launch even SAB felt like a bone to hold people over instead of a gift. I don’t think they will do well with either method. We don’t even have any info on the summer patch are they holding it for Legion release or more game events maybe some big esports announcement.

Until we know more about this next quarterly patch I remain skeptical but people will continue crying for either method because they seek something that could be possible with a better companion but they have to remember what we’ve seen these last four years and what to expect. If we were ever satisfied no one would be asking for either.

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

azizul.8469:

that was how they did it initially, then people cry they want expansion, so Anet gave them expansion, but now they want the Living Story back ? lol Anet can never satisfy their customers, can they ?

Your fallacy is to think that ‘their customers’ view the game entirely the same way and all want the same thing.

I want guild wars 3 already, and i hope this time the combat is good. No more useless expansions like WoW adding a little bit of content

azizul.8469:

that was how they did it initially, then people cry they want expansion, so Anet gave them expansion, but now they want the Living Story back ? lol Anet can never satisfy their customers, can they ?

Maybe because people realized that HoT was pretty kitten tiny for an expansion, so they decided they prefer Anet’s previous method of content delivery.

The problem with DLC is that it divides the playerbase. Already, there’s a significant divide between players who are F2P, those who own the core game but not HoT, and those who own HoT, and even some issues with those who own either the core game or HoT and Living Story S2.

They aren’t holding anything to release against Legion. It makes no sense to joust against that 800 lbs gorilla in the first place and in the second, the quarterly updates come quarterly.

A quarter is roughly 13 weeks but ANet tends to publish a patch every two so say 12 to 14 weeks, 84 or 98 days.

Winter Quarter Update was Jan 26th, the Spring Quarterly was April 19th which was 12 weeks later. Now that would put the Summer Quarterly around July 12th or 26th. Legion is due at the end of August so likely at least a month before Legion.

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

Mirta.5029:

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

It’s amazing how quick people are to forget the track record ArenaNet has made for Gw2.

Expansion mode is really better, i hate DLCs, i never get excited for a new dlc on a game, but expansion, oh expansions really brings the hype. I loved every expansion in GW1, i love HoT even if it have flaws, and my wallet is ready for the next expansion.

Mirta.5029:

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

Actually you got that completely wrong. Anet outright stated before release that the raid and the legendary weapons would come in staggered releases after the expansion. The only problem is that we might never be getting the weapons.

Ganathar.4956:

Mirta.5029:

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

Actually you got that completely wrong. Anet outright stated before release that the raid and the legendary weapons would come in staggered releases after the expansion. The only problem is that we might never be getting the weapons.

Plus, everything else (except LS3) has been delivered. Moreover, if ANet’s delivery is an issue, how would that change by going to any other system (subscription, DLC, whatever) — if they can’t deliver, isn’t it moot what they offer?

Mirta.5029:

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

Nope, they never said out of the box.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Plus, everything else (except LS3) has been delivered. Moreover, if ANet’s delivery is an issue, how would that change by going to any other system (subscription, DLC, whatever) — if they can’t deliver, isn’t it moot what they offer?

Corrrrrect, but trying to address this more as a time management thing, in order to encapsulate a time frame with a deliverable, in the form of a suggestion.

Instead of trying to create “all the things” at once, focus on specific, all-around content, that can be done in a specific amount of time. Yes, they’ve tried this. Yes, they’ve failed at it. So my best guess is that somewhere along the lines, they’re getting a bit too ambitious, and scrapping large chunks of code, because they later found that the idea sounded good on paper, but then when it came to practical application, it simply took to much time to produce?

But yer right, all in all, it doesn’t matter, and we’ll just have deal with it, or take breaks during the drought, to come back later and enjoy their offerings.

The only problem I see is that Anet is trying to deliver too much to different categories of players. LS or expac … choose one.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ganathar.4956:

Mirta.5029:

Danikat.8537:

It is your opinion that HoT didn’t meet your personal expectations. Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of us.

they objectively couldn’t deliver what they have promised.

The expansion was supposed to come out with a full raid and a set of new legendaries out of the box. So many months in, new legendaries got outright canceled and the raid is only getting finished right now.

Actually you got that completely wrong. Anet outright stated before release that the raid and the legendary weapons would come in staggered releases after the expansion. The only problem is that we might never be getting the weapons.

Plus, everything else (except LS3) has been delivered. Moreover, if ANet’s delivery is an issue, how would that change by going to any other system (subscription, DLC, whatever) — if they can’t deliver, isn’t it moot what they offer?

Exactly

What troubles me is people defending Anet for taking back previous statements just prior to the release. Also after the pre-orders were already in full swing. You don’t promise features in a product get the consumer base and investors riled up and talking about your product and months after then state you’ve had to strip the features you’ve touted after all that free hype and coverage. The did a tour across most of the major gaming events and made numerous pushes and then when everything was said and done come out with lists of things that won’t happen.

That’s not how the world works and defending such action just because they came out and quietly stated it after screaming it to the world doesn’t help anything.

Whatever method they choose doesn’t matter it’s about the quality of how and what they stated and are delivering. There is a reason why they’ve been tight lipped about LS3 they wish not to overstate what’s possible but the fact that they can’t comment shows a lack of direction in the first place.