Guild Wars 2

Riaky.8965:

I don’t have problem with world bosses drop decent loots but the bosses are too boring. Anet should redesign the fight and make it more challenging.

Have a +1, as I wholeheartedly agree. There could be some redesigns to these events to make them more interesting for the mobs of people who crush in on them and reduce them to “just don’t die and keep firing”.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Edge.4180:

Whether you agree or not, characters are idle when they’re standing around waiting for 30-60 minutes or more for a boss to spawn. When I refer to “taking up space”, I’m not talking about other people waiting in line to camp the boss, I’m specifically talking about space that could be used by players who simply have a desire to adventure in that zone. I’m mentioning this because you’re trying to argue that removing these “boss campers” will actually hurt the zone, an argument which is difficult to take seriously when most of the time these idle campers are not helping the zone in any shape, way or form.

not sure i understand what your trying to argue. new players in an overflow not playing to do that event and just adventure can do so in the overflow with no problems, in fact they have a better experience because there are less players zerging events. the whole community argument is BS as their friends can join them in the overflow and you can guest on any server ergo communities are cross server anyway, additionally you get dropped in overflow even when there are no big events going on or in LA. due to population numbers.

You may be unaware, unaffected, or simply don’t care. But many of these communities have unofficial designations. And while they are by no means official or supported, many players do pick particular servers for particular reasons. When they can’t play on those servers (because of population issues that have been created with recent changes) amongst other players who made the same choice for the same reasons, it can be frustrating.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Since the patch I have gotten two piles of vial essence…these were the only two rares. The rest was 1/4 if not 1/3 junk/nothing, much less greens, fairly the same number of blues and whites and slightly more recyclable items.

The only way to get rares/exotics now is to do dragons and/or meta-events.

Loot has not been improved – it was reshuffled.

They have not reshuffled loot; they did not lower drop rates on normal mobs. Random is just random. It’s the same kind of random that makes me feel like ecto salvage rates have been nerfed, even though they haven’t.

Rare loot has been improved in that now there is (much) more of it entering the system through these boss chests. I mentioned this earlier but between just the Shatterer, Tequatl, the Maw, and the Shadow Behemoth alone, there are more than 44,000 rare or better items being generated each day on the U.S. servers. And that’s just a handful of events with very generous calculations (for example, it only assumes there are 25 people at each of those event, and anyone who has been attending them recently knows there are far more than that present).

And that’s only, what.. 4 out of 15 (?) outdoor bosses that drop a guaranteed rare now? Imagine how high that number really is.

Why are people complaining about good loot. Is it because you don’t have time to do these events as much as other people and you’re selfish so you want these guys not to have the ability to do these kind of things too because putting more time in the game and getting rewarded more is unfair.

Or is it because you’ve made certain investments on certain items which have had a significant drop in price and you want anet to revert their changes so you can reap the benefits?

Seriously, these are the only two kinds of people I can imagine who “dislikes” good loot on world bosses.

What is “the wrong reason to do a world event”. I ran into a world even by chance and did it. Is that a wrong reason to do it? Should I have gathered my hatred over days and days, sworn revenge for my dead parents who sent me to the circus at a young age and waited day and night for jormag to spawn only to kill him and loot that corpse full of wonderful blue items which the generous merchant bought off me for 70c.

Lafiel.9372:

Why are people complaining about good loot. Is it because you don’t have time to do these events as much as other people and you’re selfish so you want these guys not to have the ability to do these kind of things too because putting more time in the game and getting rewarded more is unfair.

Or is it because you’ve made certain investments on certain items which have had a significant drop in price and you want anet to revert their changes so you can reap the benefits?

Seriously, these are the only two kinds of people I can imagine who “dislikes” good loot on world bosses.

No, not at all. I stated my personal reasons clearly in the first post of this thread and all subsequent posts I made since then. Anything you’re reading beyond that is coming solely from you.

(cont)

Lafiel.9372:

What is “the wrong reason to do a world event”. I ran into a world even by chance and did it. Is that a wrong reason to do it? Should I have gathered my hatred over days and days, sworn revenge for my dead parents who sent me to the circus at a young age and waited day and night for jormag to spawn only to kill him and loot that corpse full of wonderful blue items which the generous merchant bought off me for 70c.

No, there’s nothing with “running into a world event by chance” and participating in it. In my opinion, that’s a great reason to jump in on a boss event.

There’s also nothing wrong with killing mobs for loot. However, let’s review some details:

• 1) Upwards of 30 – 50 players (or more) are showing up at these boss events, in a game that can not currently handle that many players participating in the same battle without creating performance and lag issues, and for events that do not currently scale in difficulty properly to present a challenge that justifies the rewards being given.

• 2) Many of these players stand around idle for 30 – 60 minutes prior to the event beginning, essentially competing for a PvE resource (in a game that is supposed to remove competition in PvE) as they attempt to reserve a spot at the event and not end up in overflow. The entire time they contribute nothing to the zone beyond pushing the map towards its population capacity, and potentially creating a situation where active players attempting to play the game are winding up off their home server and away from their home communities, and reduce the number of active players available for other events in the zone.

• 3) Many of these players move from boss event to boss event, from character to character, and even from server to server via the guesting function to farm rewards from as many of these events as possible.

• 4) Most players are participating in these events solely for the item rewards and care little about the event beyond that. Meanwhile, the players who are trying to show up at these events because they seek challenging, epic boss content in a server environment that can perform reasonably well.. they’re not getting that because of the points listed above.

Like I’ve said before, I like to see a treasure chest waiting for me at the end of my boss kills as much as the next person. But when that treasure becomes the focus of so many players, to the point where it starts to lure so many people in at a level that causes problems and such a toxic atmosphere.. there’s a problem.

Do people enjoy receiving loot? Definitely. Do people enjoy spending upwards of an hour camping a spawn point just so they can lag through an event for several minutes with a level of participating that amounts to just tapping your “1” key repeatedly? I honestly doubt it, and I think anyone being reasonable can say the same.

Unfortunately, they will continue to do so as long as the loot and said event are linked, and I feel that attaching an overly attractive lure to a disappointing, monotonous, non-fun task can potentially create a situation where players will eventually just become disgusted with (what they believe is) the only content worth doing, and eventually the game itself.

So, IF the boss events were actually fun and challenging..

..and IF they attracted smaller numbers of players, OR could adequately handle (in terms of performance and maintaining the proper level of challenge) the larger numbers they’re currently attracting..

..and IF they’re not creating a situation where particular maps are consistently pushing players off their home server, robbing resources from other events on the map and generally lowering the quality of play in that zone for all the players who are not standing around idle waiting on a boss spawn..

..then yeah, I’m all for boss events with treasure. But do you see that happening anytime soon? What’s very frustrating is this: if these things could be improved by simply introducing an easy, magic fix.. I suspect everyone in this thread would be demanding that it happen. But as soon as that “easy, magic fix” = removing loot from boss encounter, greed kicks in and people are all like “what problem..? I love camping bosses under these conditions.. everything’s fine.. move along, nothing to see here”.

(sigh)

I never said it was the best solution, but it would be nice if someone looked beyond the danger of losing their shinies and offered a better one. Too much entitlement getting tossed around and not enough problem solving. And, unfortunately, some of the problem solving (performance issues) is on ArenaNet’s end.

here is a quesion for all of you;

we KNOW FOR SURE that there is a lot of PVE FARMERS in this game who will always go where there is the MOST REWARD, because they are ok with repeating content for ever.

so, WHERE do we put these guys?
right now its world bosses and maybe some dungeons.
considering itll be impossible to balance everything perfectly, where would you prefer to put the high reward pig pen so that this fat amount of players dont ruin the content, or, even better, improve it?

my answer; an instance, a never ending small battleground with creatures coming in non stop, made for 20 players.
easily facerollable and rewarding.

I posted this on another (similar) thread:

An easy “fix” is to make the newbie big world bosses drop gear up to level 60 instead of 80. They scale badly because they are level 15 for crying out loud, they are supposed to be fought by level 15s not level 80s! You can’t make them a lot harder because otherwise how are level 15s supposed to kill them?
Making those drop rare/exotic gear of level 60-67 (68+ give ectos right?) would make them a nice way to level up and gear up alts but not something for max level characters to take advantage off. Effort should be rewarded, and there is no effort in standing still, using an auto attack, and getting ectos for it.
Things like Final Rest and other similar items could continue drop as skins, similar to HoM and Fractal skins, just skin, no stats.
There, problems solved.

Avatar.1923:

here is a quesion for all of you;

we KNOW FOR SURE that there is a lot of PVE FARMERS in this game who will always go where there is the MOST REWARD, because they are ok with repeating content for ever.

so, WHERE do we put these guys?
right now its world bosses and maybe some dungeons.
considering itll be impossible to balance everything perfectly, where would you prefer to put the high reward pig pen so that this fat amount of players dont ruin the content, or, even better, improve it?

I absolutely love your question and hope it sparks a better discussion going forward. +1 from me.

Why would I bother to do them if they would have no loot lol… the encounter is boring, laggy, and SCHEUDLED (worst idea ever, to make bosses spawn not-randomly and let people farm them with timers), all I do is use the wp to get to the boss, than I just stay and browse the web while my character is auto attacking so I can grab the loot.

^
and sir,
what would be your prefered farming activity?
what do you think should be the most rewarding thing to do in the game?

Przemek.6835:

all I do is use the wp to get to the boss, than I just stay and browse the web while my character is auto attacking so I can grab the loot.

And why should someone that does that be rewarded? It’s puzzling why some brain dead activity is more rewarding than doing something that actually requires a player to be present.

Well, In my opinion, they need to do something. When this game launched I remember listening to the manifesto video and developer comments about “not wanting players to play the UI” and “We want gamers to view the things they do in the game as meaningful and world changing.” Well, I’m sorry but standing in a lag fest with lord knows how many people (thank you culling) while we all repeatedly shoot a dragon in the ankle so that we can get the loot that no longer drops anywhere else (or is not a guaranteed drop) is not meaningful, fun, or engaging. Honestly, its pretty lame.

When this game came out I remember showing my friends an in-game dragon battle. Mind you this was pre-broken, so there were a decent amount of people there but not overwhelming, and the fight was tough and took a while. They all thought that was pretty cool and 2 of them went and bought the game. Now when I go to a dragon I just stand where everyone else stands, hit #1 auto attack, and read or watch videos. All I need is 1 hit and I got a guaranteed yellow. I just don’t see how this is what you do if you supposedly want to prevent people from farming. It is lame, cheap, and poor design.

^
it was an awful design decision.
but we should start getting used to these kind of decisions.
so far, as endgame service provider, its mostly failed.

OdinBudd.5298:

It is lame, cheap, and poor design.

Avatar.1923:

it was an awful design decision.

Yeah, maybe ANet should stop catering to what players are saying they want. A great many of the changes in GW2 are the result of them listening to complaints and attempting to address them. Problem is, every time a game company pleases one demographic, they cheese off another.

Or maybe, since game companies are motivated to please customers, players should be more careful what they ask for.

I’ll just get this out of the way and flat out tell that I haven’t read all the pages here.

Towards complaints about the loot drop being so good it brings everyone in : As a person who barely ever received green drops on my first character, it’s nice to feel rewarded after a tough battle with treasure that’s befitting of it. Before everyone showed up to the dragon events because of the loot issue, it felt extremely unrewarding to sink that much time on a single dragon (what with so few people helping), just to be rewarded with a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky). The only reason I killed the dragons at all before was simply out of the drive to say I bagged all the dragon lieutenants (verbal bragging rights, yep).

The problem with arguing over the fact that good loot drops is that it’s entirely based on RNG through the predominant sections of the game. With that kind of atmosphere, where some random warthog out in the forest can have a tiny chance of dropping something worth tens and hundreds of gold, it makes arguing about loot and the damage it causes a bit silly, because obviously people will flock to where the good treasure is at. In order to fix that, you’d need to get rid of the loot drops entirely, and replace them with simple enemy-type related crafting components, then have everything fancy from weapons to jewelry be a player crafted or store bought item, eliminating the desire of most players to farm things outside of making that set of armor they wanted (ala Monster Hunter series).

The problem with the timers is that it broadcasts when to be there to get whatever reward (which before wasn’t an issue, but now lets folks like me who might only get on for an hour to hop a few events and get a decent return on that time). Getting rid of this wouldn’t remove the issue, as some people think, as it would just lead to people standing around even longer, waiting for the events to randomly pop (if they farm now, why would anyone think they would stop?). Farming is, unfortunately, a relatively healthy part of the economy for the casual person as it drives prices of items down (rares are selling for what, 20s a piece now?).

As far as players just auto-attacking while in a screen – that’s their personal choice to not help anyone out. Just because there happen to be so many people culling kicks in and I can’t see anyone doesn’t mean I’m still not being smart enough to go after the Ice pillars against Jormag’s claw. Make the dragon’s even harder, and people will still just sit there in full-on slumber mode, it will just hurt even more the people that want to do it. Should slackers be rewarded? Not really, but if that’s how they want to play then I guess it’s policy that it should be supported just as much as the rest of us want something more intense. Dungeons are still most likely the hardest content out there (afaik that was the point in the first place), and if you want a real challenge you can always arrange a small group and go after some champions in Orr. God knows they murder me all the dang time.

So really, IMO, no matter which side of this argument we go with it’s not winnable. While I would love to have some more complex fights (Why not make Teq only damaged from the megalaser and force everyone to protect that, or kittenonly damaged by the vigil cannons?) in the long run it would still become “boring and repetitive” after everyone got used to it, people would still farm it, and people would still enjoy getting good loot while everyone else complained about the lag preventing a smooth flow on an event that no-one would generally do without the reward. It’s an MMO. As long as we have RNG loot, there won’t be any reason for people to do any/all events equally to spread the load.

cmon, most themepark mmo designer should be “aware” that they have an endgame farming crowd that will seek out the most rewarding event.

no excuse for that desicision and all the cheap gameplay it promotes.

(i can excuse stuff like lionguard lyns and pvp paid tourney and karka event and….but, at one point, no more excuse! start to think guys!)

Well, if AN were to do something like you suggest, like locking down a portion of the map until a boss was defeated, then if anything you’d probably end up with MORE people camping those bosses, or just as many, so the end result would probably be much the same. And I doubt many people would be interested in the buff idea. How many people stay in one zone longer than they have to? I suspect most players are like me, constantly switching from one zone to the next as the need or mood strikes them, so such buffs would have very limited use. And certainly no one would go to a zone/map to kill a boss just to get a buff that necessitates they stay there, when they otherwise had no intention of doing so.

And most of the other suggestions are just as bad. People need the loot to sell/salvage, and without it dropping from the bosses, whether outside or in the dungeons, they’d just end up having to spend more time farming Orr.

Sometimes I think AN should just give every body everything for free, make everyone completely equal and no one has to work for anything or do anything that inconveniences them – just for a month, just long enough for everyone to try it out and realize there’s not much left to play for. During that month, we could all gather in the cities, drink our virtual beer, show off all are latest fashions, and RP the whole night away. Yeah

Giving a reward after a hard battle isn’t a bad idea, the real problem is with the whole event system.
You play GW2 for the first time and you think that events are great but as you progress in the game you come to understand that the game can’t handle them, they are plain, not much chained, not that world changing and easy. They made this whole new quest system, show to you how awesome it could be but then lack ability to make it one of the best features of the games.
If the dragon battles were the result of a long and hard chain of events that ends up with a great and needing of coordination battle then there would be no problem in giving a reward but the real issue is that you can simply be there, do nothing and let the others spam attack for 15-20 minutes to see the dragon go down and get a chance to open the chest.
There is only one event, ONE in the whole game that make sense to me and deserve my praises, expecially to the one who come up with the idea, and it’s the battle at the temple of Lyssa where you have to defend the 3 altars to have a chance to win. It’s the only event where players needs coordination and where you can actually screw up easily and fail.

tl;dr version: Why having the event system if: game can’t handle it, they are implemented poorly and they have to be so easy that its almost impossible to fail them??

Ghanto.9784:

Well, if AN were to do something like you suggest, like locking down a portion of the map until a boss was defeated, then if anything you’d probably end up with MORE people camping those bosses, or just as many, so the end result would probably be much the same. And I doubt many people would be interested in the buff idea. How many people stay in one zone longer than they have to? I suspect most players are like me, constantly switching from one zone to the next as the need or mood strikes them, so such buffs would have very limited use. And certainly no one would go to a zone/map to kill a boss just to get a buff that necessitates they stay there, when they otherwise had no intention of doing so.

And most of the other suggestions are just as bad. People need the loot to sell/salvage, and without it dropping from the bosses, whether outside or in the dungeons, they’d just end up having to spend more time farming Orr.

Sometimes I think AN should just give every body everything for free, make everyone completely equal and no one has to work for anything or do anything that inconveniences them – just for a month, just long enough for everyone to try it out and realize there’s not much left to play for. During that month, we could all gather in the cities, drink our virtual beer, show off all are latest fashions, and RP the whole night away. Yeah

you my friend, dont get it.
its not a problem of “people wanting everything for free”.
its a problem of “where do you make the farmer farm so that they dont hinder the game”.

KorbanDallas.7389:

Towards complaints about the loot drop being so good it brings everyone in : As a person who barely ever received green drops on my first character, it’s nice to feel rewarded after a tough battle with treasure that’s befitting of it. Before everyone showed up to the dragon events because of the loot issue, it felt extremely unrewarding to sink that much time on a single dragon (what with so few people helping), just to be rewarded with a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky). The only reason I killed the dragons at all before was simply out of the drive to say I bagged all the dragon lieutenants (verbal bragging rights, yep).

I’m struggling with the parts of your comment because you used the word “tough” to describe these boss events. There are maybe a handful that can be classified as non-facerolling or even challenging, but the majority of them are far too easy when large numbers of players are participating in them. Some of the stages of these boss events are powered through so quickly that you can literally miss them before you hit something, the toughest part being getting credit for participating.

As for “a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky)”, I must be extremely lucky, because I have never seen anything worse than a blue from a dragon chest. Now we’re getting guaranteed rares, and the truth is there are far more challenging normal events out there that don’t reward a box of 6+ pieces of equipment (including a guaranteed rare).

Why the kitten shouldnt I expect loot from a world boss, some people..

^
you should expect loot.

again you dont understand, like many of the people; loot is not the issue, the fact that they are easily farmable (on timers, facerollable, etc) is the issue.

some people…. :/

Edge.4180:

I’m struggling with the parts of your comment because you used the word “tough” to describe these boss events. There are maybe a handful that can be classified as non-facerolling or even challenging, but the majority of them are far too easy when large numbers of players are participating in them. Some of the stages of these boss events are powered through so quickly that you can literally miss them before you hit something, the toughest part being getting credit for participating.

As for “a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky)”, I must be extremely lucky, because I have never seen anything worse than a blue from a dragon chest. Now we’re getting guaranteed rares, and the truth is there are far more challenging normal events out there that don’t reward a box of 6+ pieces of equipment (including a guaranteed rare).

Yes, they are ridiculously easy with a lot of people around. Before the new drop table here, there used to be a lot less people going against the dragons at any given time, making them quite a bit tougher to deal with. Throw enough people at something, and any challenge in this game will be easy (with the exception of dungeons, which you can’t throw more than 5 at).

And yes, there are some jumping puzzles out there that I would love to see the treasure upgraded for, as outside of the achievements there really isn’t much purpose to do those either. Then again, we come back full circle to the problem being that you get loot for things at all – regardless of rarity.

Think of it like this, if you will:
At the end of the jumping puzzles, you have a chest. You want that chest, right? Now imagine that creatures that you can kill no longer drop treasure – only crafting mats specific to them (so in the case of the dragons, it would be a unique crafting mat) that you use to craft things (armor/weapons/gear) yourself. Suddenly, the loot in that treasure chest is that much more rewarding, because it could be anything in there that you might be able to instantly equip and use (or sell) as opposed to something you more than likely already have better than.

Such a drastic change would be (at this point) pretty dang improbable, but without an overhaul there will always be a reward/treasure imbalance – things will be hard with a small crew trying to do it, meaning the reward should be more worthwhile, but as soon as the reward becomes more worthwhile more people will do it and it will no longer be hard enough to merit the better loot. If they balance it by making it harder, then less people become capable of doing it (remember the broad amount of casuals this game is geared for) for a while and you start the circle over again. And yes, you could make it more complex in how to complete it, but that won’t stop people from showing up to do one little contribution so they can get their treasure chest.

On the other hand, people who have relatively bad luck (or in the case of me, no good luck), then they suddenly feel like the game is against them and not fun when they continually get no worth-while treasure/loot. It’s a delicate balance that they are threading, and I’m sure in the long run they will continue to adjust things, but I don’t personally believe that simply getting rid of the good loot that drives a lot of these people to do these events would be the solution (I’d rather be in dungeons, but I tend to only do those with my guild).

Hopefully that helped clear up what I was saying at least a little bit. This stuff tends to sound great in my head and come out all sorts of ancient latin.

Edge.4180:

Tachenon.5270:

Big tough boss fights can be fun, but without something to show for it they soon lose their appeal. For me, at least. Also, locking part of the map away until a big boss is defeated… uh, we kinda have that in Orr already with some of the skill challenges. Not a fan of Orr. Thank goodness for guesting and TC.

I really don’t see the harm in allowing players to lose interests in particular world-bosses as they exhaust the content in zones and move on to different content. For some reason I’m doubting that, when creating these encounters, ANet envisioned players farming them multiple times a day, every day, like we do now.

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

Most importantly, moving these fights to someplace less accessible would be a terrible mistake. They lend so much flavor and drama to the game, it would be such a loss to see them go. IMO, there is no waste of design and potential here. On the contrary, there is an abundance of both.

KorbanDallas.7389:

Yes, they are ridiculously easy with a lot of people around. Before the new drop table here, there used to be a lot less people going against the dragons at any given time, making them quite a bit tougher to deal with. Throw enough people at something, and any challenge in this game will be easy (with the exception of dungeons, which you can’t throw more than 5 at).

You are correct. I used to run dragons for a similar reason as you, I just wanted to experience the content. Dragon fights with 10 people are much different that what most people currently experience with dragons, which is standing still auto-attacking a dragon in the ankle. As for a solution to this, I don’t know. There are plenty of people here and at Anet who can come up with great ideas to fix this. If you take away the yellows, without putting them in somewhere else, the price of yellows and ectos goes back up. Probably the same result if you took the dragons off timers.

I think the people who are saying “where do you want people to farm” are dead on. ANet may not “want” farming, and may try to discourage people from doing it, but they still will and they will look for the fastest, easiest way to do it.

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

Tachenon.5270:

Big tough boss fights can be fun, but without something to show for it they soon lose their appeal. For me, at least. Also, locking part of the map away until a big boss is defeated… uh, we kinda have that in Orr already with some of the skill challenges. Not a fan of Orr. Thank goodness for guesting and TC.

I really don’t see the harm in allowing players to lose interests in particular world-bosses as they exhaust the content in zones and move on to different content. For some reason I’m doubting that, when creating these encounters, ANet envisioned players farming them multiple times a day, every day, like we do now.

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

Most importantly, moving these fights to someplace less accessible would be a terrible mistake. They lend so much flavor and drama to the game, it would be such a loss to see them go. IMO, there is no waste of design and potential here. On the contrary, there is an abundance of both.

Considering that most greens sell for about 2 silver, max, and yellows sell for 30 silver and give you the chance to salvage them for ectos, I would say there is a great difference in the value of greens vs. yellows. As for the “flavor and drama” I am not sure I agree with this. What flavor and drama is there in standing on a rock, auto-attacking a dragons ankle, suffering through insane lag while watching videos or reading? How heroic do you feel killing a dragon when he/she (hate to imply) will just be back in 2 1/2 hours to die, unglorified, again?

maddoctor.2738:

Przemek.6835:

all I do is use the wp to get to the boss, than I just stay and browse the web while my character is auto attacking so I can grab the loot.

And why should someone that does that be rewarded? It’s puzzling why some brain dead activity is more rewarding than doing something that actually requires a player to be present.

Problem is, there is no need for me to be present. I just switch back onto gw2 once my heal or wells come off cd. The encounters are easy, and classes lack any kind of depth when it comes to gameplay. I mean hey, I got that blind, I can remove boons, but there is nothing to remove, and no attack that needs to be blinded.

I’d like to see more out door boss events with chests.

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

So that I can better understand, can you please explain what exactly it is you’re appreciating while participating in an event like “Secrets of the Swamp”, where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in roughly a minute’s time in a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

As for your comment about rares, ectos are never out of style. I agree that most are always hoping for a precursor to drop, however (who wouldn’t).

OdinBudd.5298:

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

Tachenon.5270:

Big tough boss fights can be fun, but without something to show for it they soon lose their appeal. For me, at least. Also, locking part of the map away until a big boss is defeated… uh, we kinda have that in Orr already with some of the skill challenges. Not a fan of Orr. Thank goodness for guesting and TC.

I really don’t see the harm in allowing players to lose interests in particular world-bosses as they exhaust the content in zones and move on to different content. For some reason I’m doubting that, when creating these encounters, ANet envisioned players farming them multiple times a day, every day, like we do now.

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

Most importantly, moving these fights to someplace less accessible would be a terrible mistake. They lend so much flavor and drama to the game, it would be such a loss to see them go. IMO, there is no waste of design and potential here. On the contrary, there is an abundance of both.

Considering that most greens sell for about 2 silver, max, and yellows sell for 30 silver and give you the chance to salvage them for ectos, I would say there is a great difference in the value of greens vs. yellows. As for the “flavor and drama” I am not sure I agree with this. What flavor and drama is there in standing on a rock, auto-attacking a dragons ankle, suffering through insane lag while watching videos or reading? How heroic do you feel killing a dragon when he/she (hate to imply) will just be back in 2 1/2 hours to die, unglorified, again?

I concede about the difference in value between green and yellow. But… if everyone’s getting a similar distribution, what difference does it make? And… as for flavor and drama… why are you playing this game? What on earth do you want? It works the same way in every game. You kill stuff, it respawns, you kill it again. If you don’t have fun doing that… well, then I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t “farm” these dragons. I probably kill each of them once or twice a week. I like doing it. I find it fun. Shame on me.

If others “farm” them, I don’t begrudge them the time and trouble, nor the loot. I’m not going to spend my time trying to dictate how other people play. The only relevant or sensible thing I can do is enjoy the game, and when I stop enjoying it, I’ll move along to something else.

OdinBudd.5298:

I think the people who are saying “where do you want people to farm” are dead on. ANet may not “want” farming, and may try to discourage people from doing it, but they still will and they will look for the fastest, easiest way to do it.

I don’t know where I’d want them to farm, but I know I would prefer what is potentially the most epic PvE content in the game to be the equivalent of a loot pinata joke. So, anywhere but on these world bosses, I guess.

I’m not sure what the solution is; it seems most suggestions require a minimum of two changes.

If the content is made more difficult (meaning it can continue to properly scale with the numbers of player showing up).. it might draw in fewer people, and at the very least they would be earning their rewards. However, that still leaves the problem of the servers being seemingly unable to handle any kind of heavy load without the presentation suffering.

These events are really at their best when there are fewer people present rather than many. How do you discourage players from zeroing in on any one single world-boss event without placing one in every zone or removing the lure (loot)? To be fair, each zone does have some sort of meta-event, but for whatever reason most seemed to be regarded as not cool enough to be at (even before the loot change).

Avatar.1923:

^
you should expect loot.

again you dont understand, like many of the people; loot is not the issue, the fact that they are easily farmable (on timers, facerollable, etc) is the issue.

some people…. :/

And yet the proposed “solution” is to remove all loot from all World Bosses.

He was reading the OP correctly, and responding correctly as well. You, on the other hand, are operating under the assumption that the OP isn’t actively trying to get rid of all of the loot associated with these bosses. That is exactly what he’s proposed to do: remove loot from World Bosses so that “farmers” aren’t “ruining” the “fun”.

The most hilarious thing is that there are several far superior ways to fix this “problem” without even touching the loot tables for it. He’s only chosen the most drastic because he wants the game to tailor itself to his method of game play instead of catering to the game’s majority, which is vastly against him.

Debsylvania.7396:

I don’t “farm” these dragons. I probably kill each of them once or twice a week. I like doing it. I find it fun. Shame on me.

You are really not a part of the problem, then.

Debsylvania.7396:

If others “farm” them, I don’t begrudge them the time and trouble, nor the loot. I’m not going to spend my time trying to dictate how other people play. The only relevant or sensible thing I can do is enjoy the game, and when I stop enjoying it, I’ll move along to something else.

This is where we differ, though. Because when I arrive at a boss event looking for an awesome and exciting challenge that is made trivial and/or frustrating by the quantity of players farming these events.. it’s difficult for me not to resent their presence (and a number of other problems) because I came to enjoy something and am not.

If my goal was to just show up and collect my ecto, I guess I wouldn’t care. But that is not what I want these events to amount to.

Edge.4180:

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

So that I can better understand, can you please explain what exactly it is you’re appreciating while participating in an event like “Secrets of the Swamp”, where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in roughly a minute’s time in a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

As for your comment about rares, ectos are never out of style. I agree that most are always hoping for a precursor to drop, however (who wouldn’t).

I don’t know what game you’re playing, but in mine, I don’t have to show up early. I’m boggled that you say you have to reserve a spot. Really? Hmm. I have experienced no lag at all, either.

There are more people these days to fight the swamp boss (and the other dragons), but contrary to your description, they last considerably longer than a minute.

Are you taking your level 80 into the swamp? That could factor in to your experience somewhat. I’m sorry your experience is so dismal.

Sounds like there’s a population issue… or something going on… or maybe you’re exaggerating just a wee bit. At any rate, I’m having a good time as are the people I play with. You know what they say… YMMV.

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

So that I can better understand, can you please explain what exactly it is you’re appreciating while participating in an event like “Secrets of the Swamp”, where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in roughly a minute’s time in a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

As for your comment about rares, ectos are never out of style. I agree that most are always hoping for a precursor to drop, however (who wouldn’t).

I don’t know what game you’re playing, but in mine, I don’t have to show up early. I’m boggled that you say you have to reserve a spot. Really? Hmm. I have experienced no lag at all, either.

There are more people these days to fight the swamp boss (and the other dragons), but contrary to your description, they last considerably longer than a minute.

Are you taking your level 80 into the swamp? That could factor in to your experience somewhat. I’m sorry your experience is so dismal.

Sounds like there’s a population issue… or something going on… or maybe you’re exaggerating just a wee bit. At any rate, I’m having a good time as are the people I play with. You know what they say… YMMV.

From the moment he can first be targeted, he dies in roughly 1 minute and 20 seconds. And that group was going slowly enough that he actually almost got a second round of portals off.

Now, you can go to Youtube and find older videos of this event where people are dying and being revived, and the fight is lasting 10+ minutes.. would love to be in one of those Behemoth fights but I haven’t seen anything remotely resembling that since the last patch.

Edge.4180:

If my goal was to just show up and collect my ecto, I guess I wouldn’t care. But that is not what I want these events to amount to.

you don’t always get an ecto unless you buy the 100% salvage kit,and even then you don’t always get one.
anet makes money if ppl buy 100% salvage kit for real cash.

The other option is you have a stack of ectos already and now they are lower in price,so your stock is not as worth as much as it was before.

Tbh i think your a person that wants to control ectos prices on the tp,and this is why you’re kicking up such a fuss,it’s was never about the events imo.
that’s why you keep going on about nerfing the loot.

Also the lag was always there(with the dragons anyway)before the change of the loot table so i’m not going to take that as an excuse.
And as for always going into over flow,well i’m on a very high populated server and i went there today 2 mins before claw was suppose to start and i was not put in overflow so that’s a lie as well.

Give it up anet is not going to change the loot now.maybe scale the events a bit better.

[edit] that vid you posted i don’t see any lag,and someone died lol.
Also many was not stood there just pressing 1.
It is a low lvl area event the dragons seems to take much longer.
Also the more ppl there is the more dps is done,so of course there going down a bit quicker.
Anet just needs to scale them a bit better.

It’s amazing to me that so many feel they deserve a good reward for checking a timer, waypointing to an area, and pressing 1 to win.

This so-called “playstyle” is a bad thing for the game overall, and you don’t deserve much for doing it, as long as the encounters remain as trivial as they are now.

If I was the devs…

I would spawn veterans and champions during every dragon event that pound your face in if you don’t kill them fast enough. After they beat you to a pulp they send you a mail calling you a noob.

XxTAFxX.6741:

Edge.4180:

If my goal was to just show up and collect my ecto, I guess I wouldn’t care. But that is not what I want these events to amount to.

you don’t always get an ecto unless you buy the 100% salvage kit,and even then you don’t always get one.
anet makes money if ppl buy 100% salvage kit for real cash.

Sorry, I have many stacks of those salvage kits tying up bank space and have never actually spent money on one. I get them as Daily rewards occasionally, so..

XxTAFxX.6741:

The other option is you have a stack of ectos already and now they are lower in price,so your stock is not as worth as much as it was before.

Tbh i think your a person that wants to control ectos prices on the tp,and this is why you’re kicking up such a fuss,it’s was never about the events imo.
that’s why you keep going on about nerfing the loot.

LoL. I must say, I find the different theories about my reasons to be amusing from a certain perspective, particularly when I’ve plainly explained my reasons in detail a number of times now. You can believe what you want to believe. I just can’t help but wonder what’s going through your head.. “He says he wants this content to be more fun.. but what kind of gamer really thinks that way? How ridiculous! Who does he think he’s kidding, and what’s his angle??”. Have fun with the analysis, I guess, you’re going to keep doing it no matter what I say.

XxTAFxX.6741:

Also the lag was always there before the change of the loot table so i’m not going to take that as an excuse.

I absolutely agree that the lag was there before the loot change. I also absolutely believe it has gotten worse since more people started showing up because of the loot change. Why does that surprise you?

XxTAFxX.6741:

And as for always going into over flow,well i’m on a very high populated server and i went there today 2 mins before claw was suppose to start and i was not put in overflow so that’s a lie as well.

Meanwhile, there were so many complaints and thread spawning about the overflow issue that they had to keep merging them into one mega-thread. I guess we have a forum full of liars or something..?

XxTAFxX.6741:

Give it up anet is not going to change it now.

Do you really think I expect ArenaNet to look at this thread and say “Huh.. we should remove loot from boss chests..”. Before you say the wrong answer, I will just tell you: no.

What I do expect them to do is what any good designer does: Look at a complaint/request and try to figure out what the actual problem is and the best way to go about fixing it. I’m well aware that developers often feel that players don’t really mean what they ask for, and that it’s the developer’s job to figure out what they really want.

In my case, I’m asking for an improved world boss experience. I’m offering a suggestion on how to get there because I want to at least put something forward and not simply come on here and rant (like so many of the posts in this thread are unfortunately doing). Hopefully others will put something forward as well.

edge

Rare loot has been improved in that now there is (much) more of it entering the system through these boss chests…

And concurently removed from other parts of the game. This is the only logical way to let player have what they want without “destroying” the “precious” economy.

I’ll bet that, in general, players receive the mob drop chest less, they receive more salvageble junk than greens/yellow, and increase in sellable junk or nothing when playing PvE.

I know what I see, and it smells suss to me.

Avatar.1923:

Ghanto.9784:

Well, if AN were to do something like you suggest, like locking down a portion of the map until a boss was defeated, then if anything you’d probably end up with MORE people camping those bosses, or just as many, so the end result would probably be much the same. And I doubt many people would be interested in the buff idea. How many people stay in one zone longer than they have to? I suspect most players are like me, constantly switching from one zone to the next as the need or mood strikes them, so such buffs would have very limited use. And certainly no one would go to a zone/map to kill a boss just to get a buff that necessitates they stay there, when they otherwise had no intention of doing so.

And most of the other suggestions are just as bad. People need the loot to sell/salvage, and without it dropping from the bosses, whether outside or in the dungeons, they’d just end up having to spend more time farming Orr.

Sometimes I think AN should just give every body everything for free, make everyone completely equal and no one has to work for anything or do anything that inconveniences them – just for a month, just long enough for everyone to try it out and realize there’s not much left to play for. During that month, we could all gather in the cities, drink our virtual beer, show off all are latest fashions, and RP the whole night away. Yeah

you my friend, dont get it.
its not a problem of “people wanting everything for free”.
its a problem of “where do you make the farmer farm so that they dont hinder the game”.

And you, my friend, apparently didn’t bother to read my whole post, or you would know that I said that basically getting good drops is a valid and compelling motivator for people to kill bosses. You and all the other “horizontal progression” fans need to wake up and realize that, despite you being a very vocal minority, most people who play the game aren’t going to kill bosses or do any of these other events just to get cosmetic goodies to show off their cool looks or do it for some kind of bragging rights. And if AN did come up with some other kind of alternative rewards that people really cared about, then you’d end up with the same problem – people killing the bosses just to get THOSE rewards – and you’d all be back here griping about them. And really it doesn’t matter, because I’d bet a month’s pay that there will never ever come a time when bosses don’t give loot. If people can’t accept that, I guess there’s no choice but for them to go play another MMO – which, unfortunately for them, will also have bosses that drop loot and players killing those bosses to get said loot. ’nuff said.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

edge

Rare loot has been improved in that now there is (much) more of it entering the system through these boss chests…

And concurently removed from other parts of the game. This is the only logical way to let player have what they want without “destroying” the “precious” economy.

I’ll bet that, in general, players receive the mob drop chest less, they receive more salvageble junk than greens/yellow, and increase in sellable junk or nothing when playing PvE.

I know what I see, and it smells suss to me.

You’re speculating, and ArenaNet denies it.

Back in reality, however, what has actually happened is the addition of more ways to remove ectoplasm from the economy.

OP tl;dr:

World bosses should not drop anything because I was put in overflow so I could not farm my usual rare from the chest, as always, like clockwork. Either that or introduce another ridiculous content gating concept to these areas. Because the game doesn’t have enough of that already, and, because I’m mad.

XxTAFxX.6741:

[edit] that vid you posted i don’t see any lag,and someone died lol.

Yeah, it helps when the game only renders a fraction of the players actually in the area.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OP tl;dr:

Stopped reading right there. Why do you think I would ever read any further when you announce right off the top that you can’t be bothered to read what I’ve written?

That’s just silly.

Ghanto.9784

.. basically getting good drops is a valid and compelling motivator for people to kill bosses. You and all the other “horizontal progression” fans need to wake up and realize that, despite you being a very vocal minority, most people who play the game aren’t going to kill bosses or do any of these other events just to get cosmetic goodies to show off their cool looks or do it for some kind of bragging rights.

If I can step in here.. I definitely realize that. I think I’ve clearly stated more than a few times that attracting less people to these events is actually the goal, partly because the numbers being attracted to the event now are creating problems and draining the fun from these boss events.

To steal a response from you.. you and all the other “I will take my ball and play elsewhere” people need to wake up and realize that these events can be completed with a fraction of the number of players attending them now. You’re presence is not needed there to complete them. In fact, you’re only ruining the experience for people who are not strictly there for loot. And, personally speaking, I don’t mind if you stop coming, because I would very much like to start enjoying this content rather than being trapped in a mindless, loot-hungry zergfest.

I don’t understand why people aren’t getting this. It’s like you keep threatening me with outcomes that I’m actually hoping for. What do you expect me to say? “No, wait.. don’t go..”

Not trying to be a jerk, it’s just you guys really need to find another “downside” for your counter-arguments. If ArenaNet can find a way to improve these events so the risk matches the reward, and countless numbers can assault a single point without performance issues or difficulty scaling failing.. then by all means, keep the loot and stick around. If not.. I’m ok with you finding somewhere else to farm loot.

Said it before: make them randomly spawn in the map and at random times so people can’t just watch a timer, log across, autoattack and grab the loot.

But this is the game that doesn’t have solo options on dungeons, makes a pile of different currencies all non-tradeable, and has no clue on class balance in wvw or spvp, so i pretty much expect nothing much in the way of improvement any time soon.

Game got boring and repetitive way too quick, with no realistic targets or titles to aim at.

Let me know when it improves.

KorbanDallas.7389:

Think of it like this, if you will:
At the end of the jumping puzzles, you have a chest. You want that chest, right? Now imagine that creatures that you can kill no longer drop treasure – only crafting mats specific to them (so in the case of the dragons, it would be a unique crafting mat) that you use to craft things (armor/weapons/gear) yourself. Suddenly, the loot in that treasure chest is that much more rewarding, because it could be anything in there that you might be able to instantly equip and use (or sell) as opposed to something you more than likely already have better than.

This . . . is a compelling idea. -takes notes-

Edit: I thought it sounded familiar. That’s how Etrian Odyssey and its sequels handle gear. Monsters drop items . . . not coin, items, and every time you sell a specific (unseen) listing of items new gear is unlocked. Bosses have very specific drops turning into very nice gear . . . but the store actually tracks how many of the boss drops have been sold – it can be “sold out”.

edge

You’re speculating, and ArenaNet denies it.

Back in reality, however, what has actually happened is the addition of more ways to remove ectoplasm from the economy.

Didn’t we "speculate’ that loot drops were kittened up before the patch? Proove me wrong. Go play PvE (non meta boss or dragon events) for a week and see how many yellows, heck even greens, you get. Oh and lets see how much trash/nothing you get in between.

Either I have hit DR or the loot distribution is more kittened up (for me) than before.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

edge

You’re speculating, and ArenaNet denies it.

Back in reality, however, what has actually happened is the addition of more ways to remove ectoplasm from the economy.

Didn’t we "speculate’ that loot drops were kittened up before the patch? Proove me wrong. Go play PvE (non meta boss or dragon events) for a week and see how many yellows, heck even greens, you get. Oh and lets see how much trash/nothing you get in between.

Either I have hit DR or the loot distribution is more kittened up (for me) than before.

I should count, but I generally play for 2-4 hours and have gotten 3 Rares (outside of event chests), 10-15 green, and more blue items than I could count (they are usually salvaged for space).

Of course, this is anecdotal no matter what kind of evidence I collect so don’t worry about it I also have practically the entire guild getting better than me out of event chests.