Guild Wars 2

If we removed all of the Gw1 player base right now and never came back – they’d struggle to stay up and running in all honesty. We hold a very large amount of the entire player base. Respect for us is all we care about. If you can’t understand the concept of a valued consumer then I feel that your last remark was just an effort of trolling.

You listed some things from GW1 that are missing, but didn’t list any of the things that were improved.

We now have much, much more storage. Much more choices in Gear, and a Wardrobe to facilitate said Gear. We have 5 races rather than just one, and much more robust Character Creation. We have a Z-axis. We can play (if desired) with more than 12 players.

For everything missing from GW1, I think there are just as many things added, if not more. Sure, it would be great to have some of the things we had in GW1, but this is a true MMO, and with it are many advantages we could not have before, and some constraints that weren’t in the mostly-instanced design of GW1.

I can understand that concept, but the thing is that I am 100% sure they value you. If you step back and actually look at the direction they are currently moving in, it’s clearly TRYING to address specific criticisms of the game and of living story content. But I can only imagine that it’s really hard to care about criticisms of people for whom nothing can really be done apart from just undoing four years worth of planning and development. All they can do is just do their best and try to make people happy. Sometimes they won’t actually succeed in that, but that doesn’t mean they don’t care or they don’t hear you.

And as I said, it couldn’t be more clear that they’re trying, Dry Top is a permanent map full of interesting things to do. It is, in other words, an example of something that their critics of LS1 were asking for. But the complaints of “no permanent content” have become “not enough permanent content”. If I’m a developer, I would find it harder and harder to believe I could ever pacify some of the “fans” here.

Problem with guildwars 2 atm? They may add content but they add very little changes to classes who are in dire need of re balancing.

darkace.8925:

A traditional expansion allows the developers to release content when it’s ready, while the Living Story forces developers to release content when it’s due.

BlueZone.4236:

Longer time to develop content can lead to higher quality work, the ability to delay/scrap bad content, cohesive design and story, content that tailors to many groups simultaneously.

Quoting you both because you both are slightly off-target.

- Longer development time means they have more chances to scrap bad work, but it also means more wasted time and less time to work on it if they have to scrap something or change it late.

- IF they announce an expansion, and IF they give a due date . . . then miss it for whatever reason, just how badly do you think that will reflect? Especially if, in their words “it’s not ready”? It will be worse than a LS chapter which is heavily bugged, because then it will have been paid for.

- Last time I checked, expansions do not always cater to multiple groups at once. They instead cater to the top of the playerbase who have already done the top-tier things and itch for the next tougher thing. There might be multiple level ranges included, but only if a new race was introduced, due to the new race requiring a starting zone and “pecking order” of zones to get going.

- Finally . . . I don’t think this team could legitimately put together an expansion which wouldn’t disappoint everyone in some fashion. Especially the people salivating over the word “expansion”.

wwwes.1398:

I will never understand why the official game forums easily have the most negative comments about the game from anywhere. I can only assume it stems from the One True Comment of the internet: “I know you can read this, and I think you are terrible.”

Either enjoy the game for what it is or find something else that you like better, but all this endless whinging is really irritating. It’s a new game, lots of new developers, new designers, of course it’s not going to be the same. And if what they have delivered isn’t what they promised, then just maybe what they promised wasn’t plausible. If you want to criticize anything, then criticize that they promised something undeliverable. But do it a year ago, when that criticism was actually something not said a million times over.

You are suggesting that people who are dissatisfied with something (GW2) should leave it be and yet you do not like something, complaints about GW2, and continue to read them (apparently). Don’t you find that a bit odd ?

Ashen.2907:

You are suggesting that people who are dissatisfied with something (GW2) should leave it be and yet you do not like something, complaints about GW2, and continue to read them (apparently). Don’t you find that a bit odd ?

And you are replying to my pointless comment, an act that is even more pointless. And I’m replying to THAT comment. The cycle of pointlessness continues…

I mostly just want to convey the idea that perhaps ANet does actually try to address the concerns people have, which is something that people seem to not even consider because (and I’ll be brutally honest about it) the first season of living story was a huge misstep. I think they’re back on track, but as far as executing what they were hoping to do, I can’t imagine they aren’t a little disappointed with the results.

But that’s changing, and too many people who post threads like this don’t recognize that, I’d be surprised if most of them have even fully played through the new content. I spent 3 hours in Dry Top today, it’s the most fun level 80 map they have made and it’s not even done yet.

all most 2 years no new class, 2 new healing skill for each class.

what is meaning for GW – “2”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Longer development time means they have more chances to scrap bad work, but it also means more wasted time and less time to work on it if they have to scrap something or change it late.

I don’t see what you’re arguing here. Release bad content no matter what?
If they have to scrap something extremely late, then it was poor decisions the whole way through, or no decisions being made at all until the last minute.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- IF they announce an expansion, and IF they give a due date . . . then miss it for whatever reason, just how badly do you think that will reflect? Especially if, in their words “it’s not ready”? It will be worse than a LS chapter which is heavily bugged, because then it will have been paid for.

Are you talking about pre-orders? Pre-orders which can be cancelled at any time?
If you’re just talking about normal funding from the publisher, I think the LS content are still funded from the publisher.
The “just get it out of the door” philosophy can still be applied if they’re that desperate…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Last time I checked, expansions do not always cater to multiple groups at once. They instead cater to the top of the playerbase who have already done the top-tier things and itch for the next tougher thing. There might be multiple level ranges included, but only if a new race was introduced, due to the new race requiring a starting zone and “pecking order” of zones to get going.

True, I also have extremely low expectations from Anet, nowadays.

Andrasta Ethereal.8726:

Firstly there was only one expansion, that that was released MORE THAN TWO YEARS after Prophecies.

Wrong, Factions was released 1 year later with Nightfall appearing 6 months after that
From Wiki..
Guild Wars is the first game created by developer ArenaNet. Senior developers from Blizzard Entertainment, some involved in the early development of World of Warcraft left to create ArenaNet to develop a game which took risks with game design and business model. Guild Wars development was first announced in April 2003. Guild Wars Prophecies, initially marketed simply as Guild Wars, was released in April 2005. Sorrow’s Furnace added further playable content to Prophecies in September 2005. Guild Wars Factions was released exactly a year after Prophecies in April 2006 followed six months later by Guild Wars Nightfall in October 2006. A fourth campaign was in development, but after reviewing feedback from fans and the sort of changes they wanted to make, ArenaNet elected to focus on an expansion pack, Guild Wars: Eye of the North, released in August 2007, a series of updates known as Guild Wars Beyond, and Guild Wars 2.

Actually, technically it’s quite right. Guild Wars 1 had a single expansion which was Eye of the North. Factions wasn’t an expansion, because it was a stand alone game. You could buy and play Factions without ever buying or playing Prophecies. Hence it wasn’t an expansion. Same for Nightfall. You needed neither Prophecies nor Factions to play Nightfall. Eye of the North was an expansion because it required one of the other three full games.

I know it’s just a technical difference, but you can’t call that poster wrong.

BlueZone.4236:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Longer development time means they have more chances to scrap bad work, but it also means more wasted time and less time to work on it if they have to scrap something or change it late.

I don’t see what you’re arguing here. Release bad content no matter what?
If they have to scrap something extremely late, then it was poor decisions the whole way through, or no decisions being made at all until the last minute.

. . . neither of which is unheard of in game development, you realize.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- IF they announce an expansion, and IF they give a due date . . . then miss it for whatever reason, just how badly do you think that will reflect? Especially if, in their words “it’s not ready”? It will be worse than a LS chapter which is heavily bugged, because then it will have been paid for.

Are you talking about pre-orders? Pre-orders which can be cancelled at any time?
If you’re just talking about normal funding from the publisher, I think the LS content are still funded from the publisher.
The “just get it out of the door” philosophy can still be applied if they’re that desperate…

I’m talking about expansion, out the door, to consumers who paid money for it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Last time I checked, expansions do not always cater to multiple groups at once. They instead cater to the top of the playerbase who have already done the top-tier things and itch for the next tougher thing. There might be multiple level ranges included, but only if a new race was introduced, due to the new race requiring a starting zone and “pecking order” of zones to get going.

True, I also have extremely low expectations from Anet, nowadays.

I don’t know how you got that from what was quoted there. And it’s not low expectations so much as remembering there’s always the chance of the nice people higher up the budget chain who go “Get it out by December” when it can’t possibly be done.

And knowing ANet, they won’t cut things as much as they’ll try to finish what they have. Halfway I admire this tendency, but unfortunately . . . it leads to things which just are head-scratchingly left in without a reason. (Ferocity/Charisma/Dignity anyone?)

Or the final fight with Zhaitan?

chemiclord.3978:

Or the final fight with Zhaitan?

There was a final fight? I just thumbed 2 for an hour.

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Openly admitting that I didn’t read this entire thread, but as a Gw1 player myself I’d like to explain a few strong reasons why we (the gw1 playerbase) are entitled to complain/criticize Anet.

In Gw1 there were many things that, if you asked any Gw1 player, were done very well. There were flaws. But, ultimately there was very little that we sat around and complained about because we knew what this game was capable of and it delivered to an acceptable range on that exact scale.

However, when we take our standards of acceptance from Gw1 and transfer it to Gw2 we see many things that don’t meet that level of expectation.

snip

We understand that Gw2 isn’t Gw1, but we also understand that the people who made Gw2 are the same people who made Gw1 – the same people that we gave feedback to in both games since day 1 and praised various aspects of the game to. What we as Gw1 players are now feeling is that all that praise and guidance that we gave back in Gw1 about what we liked and didn’t like seems to have begun falling on deaf ears.

So the reason we complain is because we devoted up to 8 years in Gw1 helping shape it into the acceptable game that we as the players had asked for before Gw2 came out. We signed up for the Gw2 Beta and began helping point out the things we felt were missing from Gw1 that would make it feel more like home – and at the start – we thought they were listening. Now we don’t feel like we’re being heard and we’re trying to get attention. We’re trying to get the “old Anet” back. The ones who listened, were helpful, kind, cortious, and sent holiday letters to GL’s that thanked them for being a key component in the games livelihood. We simply want a better game and a better gaming family. Nothing more, nothing less.

So when you next see a Gw1 player trying to compare Gw1 to Gw2 sit back and ask yourself (and I use a metaphor here) if you put almost 10 years, a decade, of your life into a marriage and equally helped shape it to become the best it could be, and suddenly after you moved/tried to “improve” something in your lives you started to slowly go down hill because the other side started to care less and less and ignore you more and more – wouldn’t you feel a little betrayed?

This type of post is one of the types of posts I object to the most. Because the OP at very least implies like he’s talking for the majority of Guild Wars 1 players, and I’m not 100% sure that’s the case. Particularly when you say lines like we sat around and complained about.

We complained about Guild Wars 1 all the time. The difference between Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1 was that Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an official forums and other forums were moderated by fans. That’s why Reddit, which is self moderated is far more kind to the game than the official forums.

Official forums can’t really downvote every negative post. But there was TONS of complaining in my time in Guild Wars 1. Many people loved the game, but many people left the game as well. People complained bitterly when heroes were introduced and tons of people left the game. That was a well thought out aspect of an expansion that drove people from the game.

Either you’re viewing the past through rose-colored glasses, you’re not remembering, or you didn’t spend much time talking to people, but there were myriad complaints about myriad things.

There were people who despised factions when it was released (and not just a couple). The precious balance that was enjoyed with PvPers prior to that was blown apart with the addition of the Assassin and Ritualist professions.

And there were bugs in the game that existed for years and years that no one fixed, even though people cried out about it.

Guild Wars 2 DOES have more bugs, but it’s a larger and far more ambitious game. The total number of quests in all four Guild Wars 1 titles is less than the number of dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 at launch. It’s a much more ambitious undertaking. It’s going to have more bugs.

The industry has changed and there’s no way you could get away with producing a game like Guild Wars 1 today and expect it to be succussful in the same way. For one thing, when it came out, it was the only multiplayer game that didn’t have a monthly subscription attached to it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

BlueZone.4236:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Longer development time means they have more chances to scrap bad work, but it also means more wasted time and less time to work on it if they have to scrap something or change it late.

I don’t see what you’re arguing here. Release bad content no matter what?
If they have to scrap something extremely late, then it was poor decisions the whole way through, or no decisions being made at all until the last minute.

. . . neither of which is unheard of in game development, you realize.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- IF they announce an expansion, and IF they give a due date . . . then miss it for whatever reason, just how badly do you think that will reflect? Especially if, in their words “it’s not ready”? It will be worse than a LS chapter which is heavily bugged, because then it will have been paid for.

Are you talking about pre-orders? Pre-orders which can be cancelled at any time?
If you’re just talking about normal funding from the publisher, I think the LS content are still funded from the publisher.
The “just get it out of the door” philosophy can still be applied if they’re that desperate…

I’m talking about expansion, out the door, to consumers who paid money for it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Last time I checked, expansions do not always cater to multiple groups at once. They instead cater to the top of the playerbase who have already done the top-tier things and itch for the next tougher thing. There might be multiple level ranges included, but only if a new race was introduced, due to the new race requiring a starting zone and “pecking order” of zones to get going.

True, I also have extremely low expectations from Anet, nowadays.

I don’t know how you got that from what was quoted there. And it’s not low expectations so much as remembering there’s always the chance of the nice people higher up the budget chain who go “Get it out by December” when it can’t possibly be done.

And knowing ANet, they won’t cut things as much as they’ll try to finish what they have. Halfway I admire this tendency, but unfortunately . . . it leads to things which just are head-scratchingly left in without a reason. (Ferocity/Charisma/Dignity anyone?)

Of course, expansions = higher risk. And higher risk = higher gain or spectacular failure (well, to be honest, I can’t think of an expansion that killed a game outright).
However, LS = guaranteed lower quality work overall. Because of the time constraint that must be enforced.

Regarding low expectations, if they had an expansion and didn’t do something that provided content for PvE, WvW and PvP (not saying how large or small), and you think that’s expected that they didn’t do something for all 3, then yes, that’s low expectations.

Yes, they rushed out the last parts of main game.
Yes, some of the LS content are rushed low quality work, set by their own time limits.
They’ve had time management problems right from the start, and now they’re just churning out content for the sake of the fulfilling the 2 week cadence…even though they never properly resolved their time management issues.

They don’t need a paid expansion. They need scrap the 2 week cadence in favor of longer development time. Much longer. Like expansion development length.

Vayne.8563:

Actually, technically it’s quite right. Guild Wars 1 had a single expansion which was Eye of the North. Factions wasn’t an expansion, because it was a stand alone game. You could buy and play Factions without ever buying or playing Prophecies. Hence it wasn’t an expansion. Same for Nightfall. You needed neither Prophecies nor Factions to play Nightfall. Eye of the North was an expansion because it required one of the other three full games.

I know it’s just a technical difference, but you can’t call that poster wrong.

In my opinion Factions (and then Nightfall) was both a stand alone game and an expansion. You did not need to have purchased Prophecies to play Factions, but Factions did expand the GW game for your Prophecies characters.

Vayne.8563:

Actually, technically it’s quite right. Guild Wars 1 had a single expansion which was Eye of the North. Factions wasn’t an expansion, because it was a stand alone game. You could buy and play Factions without ever buying or playing Prophecies. Hence it wasn’t an expansion. Same for Nightfall. You needed neither Prophecies nor Factions to play Nightfall. Eye of the North was an expansion because it required one of the other three full games.

I know it’s just a technical difference, but you can’t call that poster wrong.

Technically, he was right. However, splitting that hair is a useless point. These campaigns offered many things other games’ expansions offered, and in some cases, more.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Actually, technically it’s quite right. Guild Wars 1 had a single expansion which was Eye of the North. Factions wasn’t an expansion, because it was a stand alone game. You could buy and play Factions without ever buying or playing Prophecies. Hence it wasn’t an expansion. Same for Nightfall. You needed neither Prophecies nor Factions to play Nightfall. Eye of the North was an expansion because it required one of the other three full games.

I know it’s just a technical difference, but you can’t call that poster wrong.

Technically, he was right. However, splitting that hair is a useless point. These campaigns offered many things other games’ expansions offered, and in some cases, more.

Not splitting hairs. I’m simply saying you can’t say he was wrong. I agree that those games offered expansion type content.

What people seem to have forgotten is how that content was met by a percentage of the fan base. Every time an expansion was released, Guild War 1 lost part of it’s player base. With Factions it was complaints about how the new professions fit into PvP, throwing the balance into disarray. With Nightfall it was the introduction of heroes and how they were going to kill the game now that people didn’t need to party.

Expansions did come out, but they had their share of problems and people still complained about them.

You saw it less because sites were run by fans back then. There was no official forum to complain about. I had complaint posts about Guild Wars 1 removed from Guild Wars guru in the past, even though they were perfectly legitimate complaints.

Edit: People also complaint Factions was too short, didn’t have enough content and wasn’t worth the cover price, because you could get through it in a weekend.

BlueZone.4236:

They don’t need a paid expansion. They need scrap the 2 week cadence in favor of longer development time. Much longer. Like expansion development length.

I’m given to understand this latest LS bit had a bit further than a two week development cycle.

. . . but agreed in the sentiment of the quoted bit. They’d benefit from something more like a monthly cycle rather than bi-weekly. I think giving them a longer length of time (like an expansion-length window) would be giving them too much time and we’d see troubles like we did at release – stuff left unfinished because they tried to over-reach.

Why do people criticize ArenaNet? How much time do you have?

1. Not sticking to their philosophy that they sold the game on. This ranges from “Easy to obtain max stats” to “is it fun” and “we don’t make grindy games”. Take your pick and you’ll find more than a few people feeling very slighted.

2. Insanely slow class balance changes and many will agree they aren’t even the right changes. A lot of needed changes are simply database value changes and don’t take months to implement. WoW vanilla was revamping classes 1-2 every 3 months, GW2 has barely made balance progress in 2 years.

3. Temporary content. This is not bad by itself, but when the rest of the game isn’t in great shape and temporary content takes up all the developer time it’s poor management. Ultimately it ends up leaving players bored especially when the temp content is often <1hr. The game needed more depth and features before temp content became the lion’s share of the patches.

4. Poorly implemented features. The latest is the new trait system that leaves new players bored, has trait unlocks inaccessible when you can unlock them, and simply wasn’t needed. A lot of the things they put in are just not well thought out. Guild missions that didn’t include small guilds is another of their flawed systems. The paid SPvP tournaments. There are plenty more but you get the idea.

5. Poor communication and no results- I don’t think I need to really explain this at all. At the start they were doing okay, then it was CDI’s, now it is basically nothing. Even with the CDI’s there are basically no results. The WvW CDI’s fell on deaf ears, the rangers were basically ignored, and the latest is a statement of a new WvW CDI that never even showed up. Even when they were better communicating some did not handle it well. I remember the guy in charge of guild missions basically telling all the small guild people to just find bigger guilds if they want to do the content, that did not sit well with a lot of people. There was a dev or a GM that ruined a GvG in WvW. Devs making fun of the communities complaints on livestreams. etc.

6. Meaningful rewards(AKA grind)- This game sorely lacks any sort of meaningful reward and ArenaNet has only made it worse along the way. I think we can all agree that defeating a boss(be it world or dungeon) and getting either vendor trash, crafting mats, a token(breadcrumb), or something you’re going to salvage isn’t very exciting. Combine that with constant nerfs to farming areas, diminishing returns, new high cost recipes, and low drop rates and what you have is pure unadulterated grind. Diablo 3 had the same problem, way too many trash rewards and not enough good loot. I’m not sure who at ArenaNet thought, “hey lets put in another recipe that requires 250 lodestones but nerf the drop again by 50%” was a great idea.

7. Forgotten and/or unpolished Features- Anyone remember karma? It was supposed to be the universal reward so you could play the way you wanted, then we got laurels, needed ectos, forced to craft, and finally forgotten for the achievement/gold standard. The condition system in PvE, think it was week 1 of release that this major issue was brought up. Combo fields are sorely lacking especially combined with the PvE condition issues. WvW scoring/population issues. Precursors. I’m sure there is a whole list of things I’m missing here but you get the idea.

There is a ton of potential for GW2, but it sits underutilized at the moment. Whether it’s management direction issues, monetary, technical, or incompetence I’m not sure. What I am sure of is that ArenaNet is open to criticism on a whole lot of fronts because of it. There are a whole lot of MMO’s out there and the veteran MMO players know what to expect as far as content/feature patches and ArenaNet is behind the curve. They might put out more story updates than other MMO’s but they certainly have zero depth. It’s like comparing popcorn to a steak, you might get a lot more popcorn, but the steak is far more satisfying.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Technically, he was right. However, splitting that hair is a useless point. These campaigns offered many things other games’ expansions offered, and in some cases, more.

And yet the main point I was trying to make (which everyone seems to ignore because I dared to call the campaigns for campaigns rather than expansions) was that there was only ever ONE of their releases that hit the 6 months apart mark, rather than all of them, which the OP suggested.

lordkrall.7241:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Technically, he was right. However, splitting that hair is a useless point. These campaigns offered many things other games’ expansions offered, and in some cases, more.

And yet the main point I was trying to make (which everyone seems to ignore because I dared to call the campaigns for campaigns rather than expansions) was that there was only ever ONE of their releases that hit the 6 months apart mark, rather than all of them, which the OP suggested.

That was your mistake. >.> If your intent was to point out the discrepancy in the time it took to put out Factions and EotN, derailing your own comment with the campaign v. expansion technicality was a mistake. What were you thinking!

Honestly, though, I passed your post without comment because the point had been made and did not warrant further discussion. I did post later on the issue when someone else raised the campaign/expansion point — because that is one of the standard derails I see on these forums all the time.

But why to people feel the need to react to a SINGLE SENTENCE in a multiple paragraph post instead of actually comment on the majority of the post?

Fact still remains that they only ever managed the six month release schedule ONCE in FOUR major releases, not every release, as the OP tried to imply.

Honestly, at this point, I’m just convinced that Guild Wars 2 didn’t need to be titled “Guild Wars 2”. The class/ability names and the setting are all that is has in relation to it’s predecessor, and for a game that’s certainly not enough.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a new game and audience, but then I definitely don’t see what they’d want it called Guild Wars 2 – unless it’s implied that GW2 would end up very differently if it wasn’t?

My other problem is that I want to support ANet, but I don’t want to support the payment model. I still recommend it, I still think it’s worth the box price, I just don’t agree with the methods a free-to-play model introduces.

Smith.1826:

Honestly, at this point, I’m just convinced that Guild Wars 2 didn’t need to be titled “Guild Wars 2”. The class/ability names and the setting are all that is has in relation to it’s predecessor, and for a game that’s certainly not enough.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a new game and audience, but then I definitely don’t see what they’d want it called Guild Wars 2 – unless it’s implied that GW2 would end up very differently if it wasn’t?

My other problem is that I want to support ANet, but I don’t want to support the payment model. I still recommend it, I still think it’s worth the box price, I just don’t agree with the methods a free-to-play model introduces.

And yet I play this game almost exactly the same way I played Guild Wars 1. I mean yeah with jumping puzzles, and all, but really the whole way I play really hasn’t changed that much.

In Guild Wars 1 I did what I found fun at any given time and here I do the same. This is actually a bit easier since the game isn’t as linear, but beyond that, I don’t play much differently.

I didn’t love switching up builds all the time in Guild Wars 1, so I concentrated on making balanced builds that could be used anywhere, and for more places that was great. I did the same with heroes. So I could take my team and do anything I wanted (pretty much) in the game.

The world is more or less the same world, and the way I play is more or less the same. So to me, Guild Wars 2 is a perfectly valid name.

People feel passionately about thier game, and that’s a good thing. Criticizing is good, and it helps to find faults, but only when it’s constructive. If you feel something is wrong please provide a solution to help improve the game. I feel that no one should judge you for giving your opinion.

If are going on a QQ rant, making accusations and assumptions without any facts, then just keep your mouth shut.

It’s pretty simple. If you’re unsure there is a sticky:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback

Smith.1826:

Honestly, at this point, I’m just convinced that Guild Wars 2 didn’t need to be titled “Guild Wars 2”. The class/ability names and the setting are all that is has in relation to it’s predecessor, and for a game that’s certainly not enough.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a new game and audience, but then I definitely don’t see what they’d want it called Guild Wars 2 – unless it’s implied that GW2 would end up very differently if it wasn’t?

To rack in the extra bucks, obviously.

#GrindWarz2

Big +1 to Distaste and Dragon Ruler. You guys nailed it.

Have people ever played Dune and Dune 2? ^^

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Fact :
More content was added to GW1 2 years after its release than was added to GW2 2 years after release.

They now have:

-More money
-More people
-Overall more resources.

Also the quality of the content that has been delivered so far has mostly been sub-par.

Most of season 1, the whole Southsun fiasco, and I could go on.
Permanent additions to the game have been few, and of those few only some are actually good.

That’s why people are complaining.

Fact:
More armor was added to GW1 after 2 years since its release than we’ve had in GW2 since release.

This is in my opinion inexcusable considering GW2 is a cosmetically driven game and that almost all new armor and weapon sets have been introduced via the gem store so they’ve made a profit by introducing them.

How is it that even though they have more resources and more people they seem to put out less armor sets?

Even worse is the fact is that people have been asking for GW1 armor to be brought back to GW2 ( which would be simpler since you wouldn’t have to start from scratch) and yet we’ve seen nothing.

Another big issue is the constant hype created by statements they make – including things they want to do and then never get around to doing.
I understand plans change, things come up, and so on – but at least keep us updated or don’t say anything at all.

I’m very unhappy about the “new legendary weapons and a new type of legendary item in 2013” – I saved up money ( since there were only a few months of 2013 left) and didn’t buy things I wanted or made investments specifically because they told us this was coming.

It’s now July 2014 and nothing came. I understand they must have gotten sidetracked or something but at least come out to the player base and say something like “we’re not going to be able to deliver on this or that until -insert some time frame here-”.

I find it unfair and annoying that they throw buzzwords on the forums then not only fail to live up to the created expectations but also keep us completely in the dark. Which is the worst of it.

First of all, about the precusor crafting, they did say something, you just missed it. They were working on something that had to be scrapped because of other changes they made. So they’re back to the drawing board on it. Sad, but that’s what happened and they did post about it. Right here in these forums.

The sub par comment is your opinion. Anet isn’t doing a bunch of stuff every single game has done. They’re pretty much in unchartered territory. I’d say the start of the living story was unimpressive, but it got better as time went on, for me anyway. Because I could see improvement, I was happy to wait, because it meant they were on the right track (again my opinion only). The new season 2 stuff is better than anything in Season 1, but the last part of season 1 was pretty kitten ed good anyway. So I don’t agree with that.

I do agree on the armor comment, however, that said, if you look at the amount of elite armor total in Guild Wars 1, you’ll find there is currently far more variety in this game, because of transmutation.

See in Guild Wars 1, even at the end of it’s reign, you only had X number of elite armor sets and level 80 sets (some of which were dreadful in my opinion). However, you have to realize that in Guild Wars 2, with transmutation stones and the ability to mix and match and use ANY skin at level 80, it means there’s more armor in Guild Wars 2 for level 80s than Guild Wars 1. What they don’t have a special unique armor sets. But there are certainly more cosmetic options.

Every profession had it’s own unique armours. Transmutation, 3 tiers of professions all share the same skins. I don’t see how your math has lead you to believe more exist in gw2. This is not to mention the amount of weapon skins that have been recycled to lesser extend or are complete replica’s. Not wanting to split hairs, but your math is off if u think gw2 has overall more armours, it just has variation in customising.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Fact :
More content was added to GW1 2 years after its release than was added to GW2 2 years after release.

They now have:

-More money
-More people
-Overall more resources.

Also the quality of the content that has been delivered so far has mostly been sub-par.

Most of season 1, the whole Southsun fiasco, and I could go on.
Permanent additions to the game have been few, and of those few only some are actually good.

That’s why people are complaining.

Fact:
More armor was added to GW1 after 2 years since its release than we’ve had in GW2 since release.

This is in my opinion inexcusable considering GW2 is a cosmetically driven game and that almost all new armor and weapon sets have been introduced via the gem store so they’ve made a profit by introducing them.

How is it that even though they have more resources and more people they seem to put out less armor sets?

Even worse is the fact is that people have been asking for GW1 armor to be brought back to GW2 ( which would be simpler since you wouldn’t have to start from scratch) and yet we’ve seen nothing.

snip

First of all, about the precusor crafting, they did say something, you just missed it. They were working on something that had to be scrapped because of other changes they made. So they’re back to the drawing board on it. Sad, but that’s what happened and they did post about it. Right here in these forums.

The sub par comment is your opinion. Anet isn’t doing a bunch of stuff every single game has done. They’re pretty much in unchartered territory. I’d say the start of the living story was unimpressive, but it got better as time went on, for me anyway. Because I could see improvement, I was happy to wait, because it meant they were on the right track (again my opinion only). The new season 2 stuff is better than anything in Season 1, but the last part of season 1 was pretty kitten ed good anyway. So I don’t agree with that.

I do agree on the armor comment, however, that said, if you look at the amount of elite armor total in Guild Wars 1, you’ll find there is currently far more variety in this game, because of transmutation.

See in Guild Wars 1, even at the end of it’s reign, you only had X number of elite armor sets and level 80 sets (some of which were dreadful in my opinion). However, you have to realize that in Guild Wars 2, with transmutation stones and the ability to mix and match and use ANY skin at level 80, it means there’s more armor in Guild Wars 2 for level 80s than Guild Wars 1. What they don’t have a special unique armor sets. But there are certainly more cosmetic options.

Every profession had it’s own unique armours. Transmutation, 3 tiers of professions all share the same skins. I don’t see how your math has lead you to believe more exist in gw2. This is not to mention the amount of weapon skins that have been recycled to lesser extend or are complete replica’s. Not wanting to split hairs, but your math is off if u think gw2 has overall more armours, it just has variation in customising.

You got it right in one. Every profession had it’s own unique armor. Right there. Perfect. That’s true. So as a Necromancer, you had less of a selection. Here’s the math.
On on a ranger right now so I’ll use that as an example.

Here’s the ranger armor page. There are 30 sets of armor total shown. Thirty sets total. That’s the options I had for my ranger.

I have 28 options available to be right now that I’ve already unlocked in chest pieces. I don’t have half the armor sets now. There are 56 chest pieces. You’ll find that particular in just about ever case. There are 59 boots my ranger can wear and still 30 in Guild Wars 1.

So in Guild Wars 1 my ranger had 30 × 5 pieces and here I have over 50 times 6 pieces. And there were capes in Guild Wars 1, which were guild capes, which you couldn’t really pick and choose. We have far more customizable back pieces here. You had a handful of dyes in Guild Wars 1 and over 400 here. Even with the ability to mix dyes, you didn’t have 400 colors. And there are multiple dye zones on each piece here, as opposed to Guild Wars 1.

See, that’s math.

Distaste.4801:

6. Meaningful rewards(AKA grind)- This game sorely lacks any sort of meaningful reward and ArenaNet has only made it worse along the way. I think we can all agree that defeating a boss(be it world or dungeon) and getting either vendor trash, crafting mats, a token(breadcrumb), or something you’re going to salvage isn’t very exciting. Combine that with constant nerfs to farming areas, diminishing returns, new high cost recipes, and low drop rates and what you have is pure unadulterated grind. Diablo 3 had the same problem, way too many trash rewards and not enough good loot. I’m not sure who at ArenaNet thought, “hey lets put in another recipe that requires 250 lodestones but nerf the drop again by 50%” was a great idea.

You were spot on with everything you said except this. “Meaningful rewards” is a very subjective concept. Some might be happy with a title when clearing difficult content, while others demand a precursor. Fact is there are a lot of incredibly impatient people who seethe with rage when denied instant gratification. There are also a lot of people who wail about boredom when they’re given everything too quickly. I’m not saying the reward system in Guild Wars 2 is perfect; it’s far from it. But reward systems in an MMORPG are very much an inexact science and there’s never a one-size-fits-all answer.

Curse Drew.8679:

People feel passionately about thier game, and that’s a good thing. Criticizing is good, and it helps to find faults, but only when it’s constructive. If you feel something is wrong please provide a solution to help improve the game. I feel that no one should judge you for giving your opinion.

If are going on a QQ rant, making accusations and assumptions without any facts, then just keep your mouth shut.

It’s pretty simple. If you’re unsure there is a sticky:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback

I agree with what you said, but the obvious elephant in the room is this has already been undermined and discredited. The classic example is warrior long bow, “We have thought really hard about this. Longbow fire field produces too much adrenaline…we’re nerfing it” The player community responded quickly, “Longbow fire field produces no adrenaline..here is the facts..This just feels like a political nerf to appease all the QQ’ers who are sick of warrior because of it’s numbers, not because of its mechanics” The response from a-net was nothing. Even when asked again, the response was nothing. The player community humiliated (what else can you call it when players display more knowledge about your product than you do?) The game designers by highlighting they either know very little about their product, or simply catching them out on disregarding any sort of transparency to their statement. At the end of the day it is their game and they can do what they like. The fire field did need adjusting. However the official reason was entirely disproved and when asked to explain the “We thought really hard about this..” Well, just or unjust, that’s when anyone with half a brain now knows don’t believe anything said and don’t expect reasonable answers to reasonable questions. Good feedback was given. It was ignored. No one forced anyone to take this approach. It was done voluntarily. No response was given, or rethink explored. A lot of people remain true to a-net, despite seeing things like this. If they were were my partner and I told anyone about my partner failing to live up to promises, lack of transparency to things they say. Slow at keeping the relationship fresh. Constantly wanting me to pay for things, but giving little back and rewarding taking the effort poorly..well, I would be told to leave them. Argument by analogy underpins just how effective feedback has failed to produce any results. Any way I’m off to go play a 4 vs 5 in soloQ. Have fun friends.

Just because they are not responding to every thread, doesn’t mean they didn’t read it. I’m actually amazed at how much effort they put into reading everyones feedback and taking them into consideration. They can’t make everyone happy. They must have thought it was in the best interest of the game.

Yea they tend to take many things into consideration, but that’s more or less as far as it gets.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Yea they tend to take many things into consideration, but that’s more or less as far as it gets.

Should they do more than take many things into consideration? I think that’s exactly what they should be doing, no?

Yea, I do hope they continue spiralling downwards. There’s China to fall back to now to compensate anyway. Tough luck for EU/NA. Two more years and perhaps you’ll ‘get it’, for the lack of better wording.

Taking things under consideration.

Wow, did you see that megaserver feedback thread?
Yah. I’m considering reading it.

BlueZone.4236:

Longer time to develop content can lead to higher quality work, the ability to delay/scrap bad content, cohesive design and story, content that tailors to many groups simultaneously.

It’s not really “longer time to develop content” though. They’re not releasing “Entanglement” as an expansion and getting extra time to develop as a result. They’re working over a longer period of time, but they’re also working on more things in that time.
The only thing they can’t do is the “simultaneous release of multiple content types”, but they can instead release them over the course of a few patches/weeks. In the case of an expansion though, content would be separated by several months instead. So you’d get your “simultaneous release” that caters to multiple groups at once, and then have several months of nothing. Once again, the only real difference is how the content is packaged.

A traditional expansion allows the developers to release content when it’s ready, while the Living Story forces developers to release content when it’s due.

Hardly, expansions have due dates too. True, they’d gain a bit of flexibility in how much time they can spend on development, but there’s still a due date in the end. Not to mention the alternative is something akin to WoW’s current situation, where they hide behind “when it’s ready” as an excuse and see huge content droughts with no pay-off as a result.

They obviously get advantages from having “more time” to work on and polish things, but they’ve shown they’ll take that time when needed. They went on vacation and skipped some releases around christmas, and they took several months to work on things after season 1.

lordkrall.7241:

But why to people feel the need to react to a SINGLE SENTENCE in a multiple paragraph post instead of actually comment on the majority of the post?

Fact still remains that they only ever managed the six month release schedule ONCE in FOUR major releases, not every release, as the OP tried to imply.

Why do politicians running for office react to one sentence in their opponent’s speech instead of addressing the entirety of it? Why did you react to the six-month release issue rather than the entirety of the OP’s post? It’s done to invalidate one’s opponent’s ideas by attacking what are perceived as weak points. People have been doing this for millennia, and with the internet, we’re at an all-time high.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Honestly, at this point, I’m just convinced that Guild Wars 2 didn’t need to be titled “Guild Wars 2”. The class/ability names and the setting are all that is has in relation to it’s predecessor, and for a game that’s certainly not enough.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a new game and audience, but then I definitely don’t see what they’d want it called Guild Wars 2 – unless it’s implied that GW2 would end up very differently if it wasn’t?

My other problem is that I want to support ANet, but I don’t want to support the payment model. I still recommend it, I still think it’s worth the box price, I just don’t agree with the methods a free-to-play model introduces.

And yet I play this game almost exactly the same way I played Guild Wars 1. I mean yeah with jumping puzzles, and all, but really the whole way I play really hasn’t changed that much.

As do I, but given that I do the same with many other RPGs (especially MMOs) as well, I’m not sure how that prevents it from taking on a far more appropriate title. We’ve gone to great lengths in other threads to establish the huge difference between the two games, a gap big enough to warrant it a more specific and non-misleading title.

Vayne.8563:

Look, no company with an IP is going to keep the same world and lore and change the title…

Something like “Heroes of Tyria” or “Guild Wars: The Living Story” seem far from offensive in this regard. We knew what to expect out of GW2, of course, so I don’t see an issue in really ‘driving’ it home with a title that helps reflect that.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Look, no company with an IP is going to keep the same world and lore and change the title…

Something like “Heroes of Tyria” or “Guild Wars: The Living Story” seem far from offensive in this regard. We knew what to expect out of GW2, of course, so I don’t see an issue in really ‘driving’ it home with a title that helps reflect that.

Yes that I agree with. But if they named it that, do you really think it would have made that much of a difference in perception? Because I don’t. People would still compare it.

Maybe the name will change like Guild Wars became Guild Wars: Prophesies. You never know what the future may hold! =)

World of Tyria wouldn’t necessarily draw in players of Guild Wars.

Yeah, I’m not really on board with the whole, “Calling it Guild Wars 2 has certain expectations” argument.

There are quite a few series that dramatically redesign their game from one iteration to the next. And it’s not like Arena.net was keeping it a secret that GW2 was going to be significantly different than its predecessor.

There are plenty of things to critique in this game. This one, however, doesn’t have much merit in my opinion.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Look, no company with an IP is going to keep the same world and lore and change the title…

Something like “Heroes of Tyria” or “Guild Wars: The Living Story” seem far from offensive in this regard. We knew what to expect out of GW2, of course, so I don’t see an issue in really ‘driving’ it home with a title that helps reflect that.

Yes that I agree with. But if they named it that, do you really think it would have made that much of a difference in perception? Because I don’t. People would still compare it.

I think people will be upset no matter how good the game is. Regardless, I think it would help. Maybe not much, but it would make more sense.

People criticizing a game show that there are still people caring about said game. Be very worry if there is no one left to criticize.

sazberryftw.3809:

By biggest criticism of Anet is their inability to communicate with us. They keep us in the dark about everything. I want to know exactly what they’re working on fixing, and features they’re working on implementing. And I want to be kept up to date. Hiding everything from us for some big feature pack which the playerbase ends up hating is just dumb.

fixed.

A classic Anet fail example is the capture points in WVW. Noone asked for them, nothing was communicated about them during development, everyone hates them now cause the geography just gets in the way.

Because Anet gives us terrible updates, lame locations, stupid story with ugly and uninteresting new characters.
And also Anet doesnt know how to manage classes, now you cant bring your thief,mesmer,engineer,ranger,necro to any dungeon or fractal without being kicked. Instead of tweaking they just nerfing mesmers and closing their eyes on bugs.