Guild Wars 2

I understand this is neither the Thief nor World vs. World sub-form, but I feel this issue is of such importance that it is of general concern to any player who wants to experience everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer.

I would like to open this discussion with the fact that I am not perfect at this game. I play a level 80 Mesmer as my WvW main. I have experimented with many traits, skills, and am pretty sharp with my mind, nimble on my fingers, and have a quick eye. When I use all of these things, they seem to at least keep me playing with a fair chance nearly constantly. My mistakes are my own (including being at the wrong place at the wrong time).

Then there is a certain type of Thief. I don’t want to limit it to a specific build, though there is growing concern the part of the problem stems from the Jinzus burst backstab build.

Link: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64152-jinzus-burst-backstab-build/

The thief slices not just into me, but the entire party. They are nearly unable to be caught, and their attacks far exceed the damage and quantity than that of any other class.

There is but one reason I post this thread: No matter what I am doing, regardless of my reaction, skill or trait setup, stun breaks, stealths, stuns, block, or roll, there is almost never an escape, and there is certainly never a recourse.

If I am not dodging and rolling, my death happens in LESS than three seconds, maybe even less than two. Meanwhile, I am slowed/stunned and bleeding to death at the same time. A stun break and two stealths are NOT enough to escape the invisible assailant, no matter how fast I activate them.

Speaking of stealth, there is seemingly extended thief invisibility, or possibly a cheating group of players (sometimes my and others’ health drops to almost nothing before anything pops on the screen). This is where I question when and if the given powers end and cheating begins.

Now, if the thief manages to land a backstab, I am dead instantly or nearly so with 19,000 hp and masterwork, level 80 armor..

I don’t care that some Necromancers feel nearly invincible, or how Warriors try with ferocity to land their hundred blades attack, or that sometimes I get stunned four times in a row by coordinated players, I respect all of this.

The issue with thieves transcends any other of my unvoiced, petty concerns. The scenario is so dire it makes me not even want to play the game, as I love WvW the most. These thieves are such an outlier in damage and survivability when compared to any other world vs. world encounter.

My gear isn’t the greatest (level 80 masterwork), and my skills as a player are not yet at their peak. However, this nearly instantaneous kill power, fast speed, extended invisibility, massive cripples and stuns are virtually impossible to counter or even escape.

Not only is this the first and only issue I have voiced my concern about in GW2 (I have extended experience with MMOs since 1997), but it is an issue slowly beginning to plague the WvW battlegrounds.

It isn’t just me, a lot of players in my world have witnessed this phenomenon first-hand. It’s certainly more noticeable in the late night hours when there are fewer players in any given skirmish.

Please see this isn’t just whinging or crying. I am an experienced player who understands that all MMOs are different, and I know all of the tools at my disposal and how to use most of them appropriately.

There truly is no counter.

Speaking of stealth, there is seemingly extended thief invisibility, or possibly a cheating group of players (sometimes my and others’ health drops to almost nothing before anything pops on the screen). This is where I question when and if the given powers end and cheating begins

This isn’t directly related to the thief. It can happen with any class, and quite often does. The code that determines what should be visible is really buggy and lags behind a lot, resulting in things that should be visible not showing up. You can have an entire zerg invisible and they have no control over it.

As for your other complaints, all I can really say is learn to counter better. If you’re playing in a group, that build will be fairly useless against you unless your group just isn’t paying attention at all. It’s extremely squishy and relies heavily on locking down a single target with venoms.

Edit: There is ONE valid issue with the thief though. There seems to be something that causes Mug to do ridiculous amounts of damage, like 9000 damage when it normally does like 600 (or a couple thousand on a crit). Not sure what triggers it though.

bwillb.2165:

Speaking of stealth, there is seemingly extended thief invisibility, or possibly a cheating group of players (sometimes my and others’ health drops to almost nothing before anything pops on the screen). This is where I question when and if the given powers end and cheating begins

This isn’t directly related to the thief. It can happen with any class, and quite often does. The code that determines what should be visible is really buggy and lags behind a lot, resulting in things that should be visible not showing up. You can have an entire zerg invisible and they have no control over it.

As for your other complaints, all I can really say is learn to counter better. If you’re playing in a group, that build will be fairly useless against you unless your group just isn’t paying attention at all. It’s extremely squishy and relies heavily on locking down a single target with venoms.

Edit: There is ONE valid issue with the thief though. There seems to be something that causes Mug to do ridiculous amounts of damage, like 9000 damage when it normally does like 600 (or a couple thousand on a crit). Not sure what triggers it though.

I don’t think you’ve fallen victim to this. It just as the OP says and on the extended visibility part. From what I could gather there is apparently a bug/glitch or whatever going on for the thieves where they can elongate the duration of invisibility. It’s not that the lag is making them load later than they’re suppose to, how do I know? Because one has done the same to me as well, he went invisible in front of me and then did the same.

You have a counter. You’re a mesmer. You’re full of counters!

Use your clones and start dishing out burst damage on the thief. He’ll melt in seconds.

Mesmers need a fix imo.

Mesmers are the top pvp class over all.

I am not saying that your complaints aren’t valid, but there might be more going on here than “other classes being broken…”

A cooldown-based build tailored completely towards picking off solo, potentially weakened players at the expense of all else is pretty good at picking off solo, potentially weakened players at the expense of all else? Who would have thought?

I wouldn’t want a thief running around with this on my team if they’re going to be useless in team fights and can’t kill anybody without blowing all of their utilities and elite. Probably feels bad to get instagibbed by one, but he’s not contributing anywhere near as much as other people.

The only thing I am suggesting is this be investigated further. I can’t stress enough how I feel that most thieves are just fine, if not extremely deadly and annoying, to fight. I play a Mesmer, I know what that’s like.

Sannou.8632:

bwillb.2165:

Speaking of stealth, there is seemingly extended thief invisibility, or possibly a cheating group of players (sometimes my and others’ health drops to almost nothing before anything pops on the screen). This is where I question when and if the given powers end and cheating begins

This isn’t directly related to the thief. It can happen with any class, and quite often does. The code that determines what should be visible is really buggy and lags behind a lot, resulting in things that should be visible not showing up. You can have an entire zerg invisible and they have no control over it.

As for your other complaints, all I can really say is learn to counter better. If you’re playing in a group, that build will be fairly useless against you unless your group just isn’t paying attention at all. It’s extremely squishy and relies heavily on locking down a single target with venoms.

Edit: There is ONE valid issue with the thief though. There seems to be something that causes Mug to do ridiculous amounts of damage, like 9000 damage when it normally does like 600 (or a couple thousand on a crit). Not sure what triggers it though.

I don’t think you’ve fallen victim to this. It just as the OP says and on the extended visibility part. From what I could gather there is apparently a bug/glitch or whatever going on for the thieves where they can elongate the duration of invisibility. It’s not that the lag is making them load later than they’re suppose to, how do I know? Because one has done the same to me as well, he went invisible in front of me and then did the same.

It’s more prevalent on thieves AND MESMERS because when they go invisible and then the game tries to make them visibile again, the game has to run calculations to determine his distance and if he should be visible to you. On his screen he’s perfectly visible, but you have to wait until the game decides that he should be rendered. If there is a lot going on in the area, this can take a while. This is why you see this problem in WvW but not much if at all in sPvP. It’s not a balance issue or an exploit, it’s just a server calculation that needs to be re-prioritized.