Guild Wars 2

So NCS complained, and Anet was forced to remove everything Cantha related from the game, with the fate of Cantha eternally TBD. They started that official “support Cantha thread”, but with no promises as to whether it would return or not.

I know it’s pointless to ask whether or not they are planning on releasing Cantha in the future – they have that “we-will-not-discuss-plans” policy because they don’t want to disappoint.

But then they keep dropping hints of Cantha into the game at a fairly consistent rate, more so than they hint at Elona, which has not been officially removed from the game like Cantha was.

We have the Shadow Assassin outfit, the Hexed outfit, the Ancestrial outfit, and now the Imperial outfit. There is also the character of Marjory, who is of Canthan descent and wields a rather large katana-style blade. (This was added post-Collapse.)

There is also the Dragon’s Jade weapon skins, and now the slightly-Asian themed Crimson Lion weapon set. Plus, there is always the Mystical Dragon finisher.

Also, before it got KO’d, the Zephyr Sanctum had some Canthan inspired designs, both in its use of paper lanterns and also in its sails, seemingly styled after Chinese Junk ship sails. I know they’re mostly of Canthan or Elonian descent, but as nomads and traders, they might have come in contact with Cantha, even as secluded as it is.

So I guess I’m curious what Anet’s game is with this. (Obviously we can’t know for sure. But speculation! Right?) Because they don’t like to talk about stuff like this in the open, but they have also openly expressed their fondness of Cantha. If they really wanted to let Cantha die a quiet death, then why do they drip feed new Canthan content in the game regularly instead of Elonian content, since the Elonians are still in the game for sure right now. Are they trying to slowly build up enough Canthan rep in the game to justify creating it fully? Or are they just fond of the aesthetic that they aren’t allowed to develop, so they add it in for its own sake?

Wishful thinking: I hope we return to the liquid jade sea and the renewed stone forest.

Those are not hints of cantha.
This is for chinese client which our clients were merged with so when china gets an event we get it too.

But if they are adding Chinese themed content in the game, doesn’t that go against their “cultural-neutral” feel they wanted? Because that was the entire point of cutting Cantha in the first place. Which was BS, and we all knew it. (Because there is clearly Western and African influence elsewhere.)

So if they CAN add Chinese themed content, why can’t it be just as easily translated into Canthan content? Do you see what I mean?

I suspect it’s aimed towards the Chinese players also. The new outfit, for example, is not really Canthan but imperial China. Red lanterns: Chinese. Dragon masks data mined: Chinese.

Yes I can see – it’s naive, wishful thinking. I don’t know how long you’re playing this game but when it comes to arenanet give up all hope. You will be less disappointed.

I’m not attacking you, just warning you so you won’t hype yourself too much.

I don’t think we’ll see cantha or elona as a continent, maybe one or two instances.
I dare to say we won’t see even more than 3 elder dragons. The plot is already twisted to the point we can’t kill them because it destroys balance blah blah blah, you know, so they can have an excuse not to create more elders to confront

China service, enough said.

If they can add all that chinese stuff for China then they can add Cantha too. They probably won’t but they can no longer draw the “asians don’t want it” card.

They even added asian looking builds at the Crown Pavilion now. You know, that place that used to be the canthan district but got scrapped?

Maybe I’m being a little bit too optimistic. BUT, people said the exact same things to me when I said that multiple times that an expansion was going to come and that the Sylvari were meant to serve Modremoth. And both happened. At the same time.

I wasn’t disappointed then, and so I’ll stay optimistic.

gw1 already had the chinese new year events. in shing yea monastary … witrh fireworks and all

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own. If Cantha had too much Japanese influence, I can understand why Korea and China would be upset. There is still a lot of bad blood between those countries and Japan over WWII (Japan thinks everything is peachy). The current year of the lion event is very Chinese/Korean being that what we call Chinese New Year is actually centered around the Lunar New Year cycle.

Behellagh.1468:

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own.

I understand and sympathize with being sensitive to cultural differences, but isn’t Tyria a mix of all things Western? And if you’ve taking any Western history, then you know that all of those countries have done horrible things to each other, even within the 20th century.

If it is too much to ask to blend their cultures together, then why not pick just one? If they are already introducing themes to cater to a Chinese audience, then why not just make the entire place Chinese themed? If we’re honest, most Western players would not notice the difference, and then you would not offend anybody. If they would find it offensive that Cantha favors one country exclusively, then aren’t they already crossing the line with their Chinese themed content they’ve released?

Food for thought.

segman.3560:

Those are not hints of cantha.
This is for chinese client which our clients were merged with so when china gets an event we get it too.

Some are and some aren’t. There are definately parts of cantha in this game, especially references to jade, and names of many of the ascended trinkets are references to parts of cantha. I also believe that the zepherites, although they had members from all over the guild wars world, originated in cantha, hence the junk boat sails and paper lanterns. I’d also like to point out the artifacts in the priory library from cantha, like the wurm encased in jade

Tai Kratos.3247:

Behellagh.1468:

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own.

I understand and sympathize with being sensitive to cultural differences, but isn’t Cantha a mix of all things Western? And if you’ve taking any Western history, then you know that all of those countries have done horrible things to each other, even within the 20th century.

Eastern?

I messed up…. :/

No worries. You’re all fired up with la passione. It does things to you.

zenleto.6179:

Tai Kratos.3247:

Behellagh.1468:

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own.

I understand and sympathize with being sensitive to cultural differences, but isn’t Cantha a mix of all things Western? And if you’ve taking any Western history, then you know that all of those countries have done horrible things to each other, even within the 20th century.

Eastern?

Well you can go either direction!

tboneking.2531:

segman.3560:

Those are not hints of cantha.
This is for chinese client which our clients were merged with so when china gets an event we get it too.

Some are and some aren’t. There are definately parts of cantha in this game, especially references to jade, and names of many of the ascended trinkets are references to parts of cantha. I also believe that the zepherites, although they had members from all over the guild wars world, originated in cantha, hence the junk boat sails and paper lanterns. I’d also like to point out the artifacts in the priory library from cantha, like the wurm encased in jade

You can say exactly the same about teasing Elona. Don’t hype yourself, you’ll be disappointed and nothing else.

There was a boss in gw1 referencing to Zinedine Zidane. Does it mean we can play football? No.

We’ll get to Cantha eventually. Saying otherwise is just silly.

Behellagh.1468:

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own. If Cantha had too much Japanese influence, I can understand why Korea and China would be upset. There is still a lot of bad blood between those countries and Japan over WWII (Japan thinks everything is peachy). The current year of the lion event is very Chinese/Korean being that what we call Chinese New Year is actually centered around the Lunar New Year cycle.

This.

Considering that NCSoft knew that they were launching the game in China, I think the Japanese influence on Canthan style in particular would not have been received well.

Sube Dai.8496:

Behellagh.1468:

Asia is not one monolithic culture with similar architecture. I sense that the three predominant cultures there, China/Japan/Korea would be upset if whatever style used didn’t reflect their own. If Cantha had too much Japanese influence, I can understand why Korea and China would be upset. There is still a lot of bad blood between those countries and Japan over WWII (Japan thinks everything is peachy). The current year of the lion event is very Chinese/Korean being that what we call Chinese New Year is actually centered around the Lunar New Year cycle.

This.

Considering that NCSoft knew that they were launching the game in China, I think the Japanese influence on Canthan style in particular would not have been received well.

As I said earlier, Kryta is a mix of all things Western. And if mixing Asian cultures (which why they don’t include India is beyond me) is a bad thing, then why not just pick one? Like, only theme it after China?

And, historically speaking, most of Japanese and Korean culture was derived from China. I know Korea doesn’t like to think so, but it’s just historical fact. So it wouldn’t exactly hurt them to limit Cantha to Chinese influence.

Tai Kratos.3247:

As I said earlier, Kryta is a mix of all things Western. And if mixing Asian cultures (which why they don’t include India is beyond me) is a bad thing, then why not just pick one? Like, only theme it after China?

Because the western world is not the same as the eastern world? Completely different cultures and such.

Mixing some culture doesn’t mean they have to mix every single culture. There are massive amounts of different cultures in that general area.

Because that was not how Cantha was back in the days, and it would be rather weird to suddenly revisit it with it being completely different (such as a whole other culture) from before?

segman.3560:

tboneking.2531:

segman.3560:

Those are not hints of cantha.
This is for chinese client which our clients were merged with so when china gets an event we get it too.

Some are and some aren’t. There are definately parts of cantha in this game, especially references to jade, and names of many of the ascended trinkets are references to parts of cantha. I also believe that the zepherites, although they had members from all over the guild wars world, originated in cantha, hence the junk boat sails and paper lanterns. I’d also like to point out the artifacts in the priory library from cantha, like the wurm encased in jade

You can say exactly the same about teasing Elona. Don’t hype yourself, you’ll be disappointed and nothing else.

There was a boss in gw1 referencing to Zinedine Zidane. Does it mean we can play football? No.

Oh believe me, I wasnt saying that we were getting a Cantha expansion, I was just correcting that person and saying that there ARE in fact Cantha references, not just Chinese cultural references. Even if a Cantha expansion IS on the planning board, at their current rate of releasing expansions (1 every 3 years by the time it actually releases most likely) it has to be at least another 12-15 years before they cover what is currently on the map we can SEE, but can’t yet get to.

Believe me, no hopes for a Cantha expansion have been raised here haha.

lordkrall.7241:

Tai Kratos.3247:

As I said earlier, Kryta is a mix of all things Western. And if mixing Asian cultures (which why they don’t include India is beyond me) is a bad thing, then why not just pick one? Like, only theme it after China?

Because the western world is not the same as the eastern world? Completely different cultures and such.

Mixing some culture doesn’t mean they have to mix every single culture. There are massive amounts of different cultures in that general area.

Because that was not how Cantha was back in the days, and it would be rather weird to suddenly revisit it with it being completely different (such as a whole other culture) from before?

But most Western players actually would not notice the difference is the thing. And if we’re honest with ourselves, do Krytans and Charr resemble anything of what they did in GW1? But we’re okay with the change now. It wasn’t jarring, it was just evolution. It’s been 250 years, they would have changed as well.

And what I meant by the “blend of Western culture” comment was that blending cultures is not a bad thing. We mix all sorts of Western influences together, and nobody has a problem with it. Even though I know some Germans who still feel past history loom over them, or European relatives who are still bitter about 20th century events.

The three biggest cultures we primarily associate with Asia are already a natural blend and evolution of each other, and it’s beautiful and fascinating to see where they deviate. I studied Chinese music for a short while, and it was cool to see how many of their instruments (ie, Erhu) were imported, and then exported with variation to Japan and Korea. Blending of neighboring cultures is natural. If it isn’t liked, then don’t do it and just do China, the originator of most of their cultural similarities. I guarantee Western players will not notice, and Asian players are already being subjected to it through the updates I listed in the original post. If it isn’t a good thing to subject them to, then why has Anet already done it?

The lunar new year holiday arrives next wee, 19th to be exact.. Some businesses will be closed for up to 2 weeks. One of our factories is closing for 8 days. There is a lot of gems to be traded in this period in China.

Cantha is a boiling pot of China/Japan/Korea. China had massive influence over the other two nations in ancient times, empire and social structure, ministerial power, and all that jazz. Even down to the warring factions, who are nominally loyal to the emperor but still want to kill each other.

@Tai Kratos Anet couldn’t just do a purely China themed Cantha because NCSoft is Korean.

The lunar new year is based on a calendar largely devised by China, with local variations but the core is basically Chinese. The Imperial outfit this release is distinctly Chinese. The male versions have dragons sewn into them which was something only Imperial China did. Dragons on your formal robes represented rank in the imperial court.

The Chinese Emperor wore golden robes with 9 dragons embroidered on it each with 5 talons. The Emperor’s robes were even referred to as the “Dragon Robes”
The highest ranking ministers were only allowed 4 talon dragons and none were allowed to wear the golden robes.

Jade was more of an important stone to China than it was to Korea or Japan. Neither of those countries have natural stores of jade while it is relatively plentiful in China, hence its value.

No matter how Anet depicts Cantha, most of it will be reflective of China simply because of how much of an influence it had on the development of the rest of East Asia.

Gonna go ahead and agree with Tai Kratos, theoretically on this one. Like I said though, it probably wont matter for at least another four expansions

Tai Kratos.3247:

And what I meant by the “blend of Western culture” comment was that blending cultures is not a bad thing. We mix all sorts of Western influences together, and nobody has a problem with it. Even though I know some Germans who still feel past history loom over them, or European relatives who are still bitter about 20th century events.

But that is just the thing: We don’t have the same kind of culture, issues and history as the Asian countries, and as such it is a much bigger deal for them than for us here in the western world.
It is also the fact that most western countries are actually rather similar compared to the difference between Japan, China and Korea.

All these “hints towards Cantha” are just in the mind.

Azrael.4960:

@Tai Kratos Anet couldn’t just do a purely China themed Cantha because NCSoft is Korean.

I guess that kind of makes sense. :-/

But anyways, I just want to say that I’m glad we haven’t had any flaming here. Yay, friendly GW2 community. We can discuss things on the internet without getting unreasonably angry.

lordkrall.7241:

Tai Kratos.3247:

And what I meant by the “blend of Western culture” comment was that blending cultures is not a bad thing. We mix all sorts of Western influences together, and nobody has a problem with it. Even though I know some Germans who still feel past history loom over them, or European relatives who are still bitter about 20th century events.

But that is just the thing: We don’t have the same kind of culture, issues and history as the Asian countries, and as such it is a much bigger deal for them than for us here in the western world.
It is also the fact that most western countries are actually rather similar compared to the difference between Japan, China and Korea.

Im actually going to have to disagree with you on the whole “western nations are similar thing”. You can see significant differences between most regions of Europe, like Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, the UK, and Sweden/ Norway/ Finland. And thats not even BEGINNING to touch on the actual eastern European Countries or Turkey. And I would argue that we in fact have very similar issues of political strife, occupations, and religious persecution.

I did make a point of comparing it to the difference between Japan, China and Korea though.

While when just comparing stuff on its own it might not be considered very similar, but when comparing to something that is much more different it becomes somewhat similar.

I would also not be so swift to join Eastern Europe and especially not Turkey to the “western world”.

Tai Kratos.3247:

Azrael.4960:

@Tai Kratos Anet couldn’t just do a purely China themed Cantha because NCSoft is Korean.

I guess that kind of makes sense. :-/

But anyways, I just want to say that I’m glad we haven’t had any flaming here. Yay, friendly GW2 community. We can discuss things on the internet without getting unreasonably angry.

We can’t have that! Someone get some unreasonably impassioned people here to ruin this thread

lordkrall.7241:

I did make a point of comparing it to the difference between Japan, China and Korea though.

While when just comparing stuff on its own it might not be considered very similar, but when comparing to something that is much more different it becomes somewhat similar.

I would also not be so swift to join Eastern Europe and especially not Turkey to the “western world”.

How is Japan more different from China than say Germany is from Spain?

Many Chinese youngsters these days carry the grudges of their forebears. I worked with a Chinese lady some years ago. A few years older than me, absolutely hated the Japanese for what they did to her grandparents’ generation. She’s not alone. Anti Japanese sentiment flares up every now and then in both China and Korea. Japanese youngsters don’t know what the big fuss is because successive governments have tried to whitewash it all. My late grandparents lived through the Japanese occupation and one of my grandmother’s had an understandable hatred for Japan.

For a culture is as old and as long lived as China’s they carry their grudges for a long time.

Europe has largely gotten over Germany because they accepted their responsibility. If Japan would do the same, China and Korea could move on

tboneking.2531:

lordkrall.7241:

I did make a point of comparing it to the difference between Japan, China and Korea though.

While when just comparing stuff on its own it might not be considered very similar, but when comparing to something that is much more different it becomes somewhat similar.

I would also not be so swift to join Eastern Europe and especially not Turkey to the “western world”.

How is Japan more different from China than say Germany is from Spain?

Their population is on the decline versus China’s on the rise?

Azrael.4960:

Many Chinese youngsters these days carry the grudges of their forebears. I worked with a Chinese lady some years ago. A few years older than me, absolutely hated the Japanese for what they did to her grandparents’ generation. She’s not alone. Anti Japanese sentiment flares up every now and then in both China and Korea. Japanese youngsters don’t know what the big fuss is because successive governments have tried to whitewash it all. My late grandparents lived through the Japanese occupation and one of my grandmother’s had an understandable hatred for Japan.

For a culture is as old and as long lived as China’s they carry their grudges for a long time.

Europe has largely gotten over Germany because they accepted their responsibility. If Japan would do the same, China and Korea could move on

I actually have a Chinese roommate right now, and he literally does not give a kitten about any of that stuff. Very open minded about that, and takes an interest in the foods, traditions, and music of all neighboring cultures. Same with a Korean roommate I had a year ago. Maybe they’re exceptions and I just got lucky, but it seems at least some people are moving on. (I don’t mean that in a “get over it” sort of way. Trying to not be insensitive here.)

But what were the cultural blends in Cantha that people found offensive – if any – anyways? Just curious. Did they mix names, architecture, lore, and fashion up? I know in music, they tended to use scales more similar to Chinese music than Japanese, but that’s all I know for sure.

So I get that the Asian countries don’t like their cultures all blended together but what about this; If/when we get Cantha in the future, and excuse my ignorance of Asian politics, instead of blending them together they are put in separate areas in Cantha (ex. Chinese-themed area, Japanese-themed area, Korean-themed, etc.). Would that be satisfactory or would they not like having their stuff being next to each other?

Tai Kratos.3247:

Azrael.4960:

Many Chinese youngsters these days carry the grudges of their forebears. I worked with a Chinese lady some years ago. A few years older than me, absolutely hated the Japanese for what they did to her grandparents’ generation. She’s not alone. Anti Japanese sentiment flares up every now and then in both China and Korea. Japanese youngsters don’t know what the big fuss is because successive governments have tried to whitewash it all. My late grandparents lived through the Japanese occupation and one of my grandmother’s had an understandable hatred for Japan.

For a culture is as old and as long lived as China’s they carry their grudges for a long time.

Europe has largely gotten over Germany because they accepted their responsibility. If Japan would do the same, China and Korea could move on

I actually have a Chinese roommate right now, and he literally does not give a kitten about any of that stuff. Very open minded about that, and takes an interest in the foods, traditions, and music of all neighboring cultures. Same with a Korean roommate I had a year ago. Maybe they’re exceptions and I just got lucky, but it seems at least some people are moving on. (I don’t mean that in a “get over it” sort of way. Trying to not be insensitive here.)

Were they Chinese/Korean nationals, or western-born? If the latter, of course they’re not going to care as much as the former.

No, they were were not Western born. The Korean roommate finished his education here and then had to return for mandatory military service, and this is my Chinese roommate’s second visit to the US. Both times for educational purposes.

I think it’s worth noting that the new buff to magic find you get ingame is called Memories of Home. Basicly straight up Cantha teasing.

Tai Kratos.3247:

But what were the cultural blends in Cantha that people found offensive – if any – anyways? Just curious. Did they mix names, architecture, lore, and fashion up? I know in music, they tended to use scales more similar to Chinese music than Japanese, but that’s all I know for sure.

No one ever called out anything specifically. This is all pure speculation by this forum. Although I do believe an ANET staffer in the Cantha thread mentioned something along the lines of NCSoft being worried about cultural sensitivities.

IMO if we want to see Cantha, the chinese version has to die. I know its not doing as well as anticipated but unless they pull the plug on it all together, I don’t see Cantha happening.

The one thing that we know for sure is that before release, Divinity’s Reach used to have a Canthan district (there were even screenshots); by release, this had been replaced with the Great Collapse, and subsequently retconned into having previously been an arts-and-crafts district (maybe not technically a retcon since the Cantha bit never made the game and hence was never canon, but I digress). And that forum post about NCSoft having concerns about the district, but no official statement. It’s probable that cultural sensitivities had something to do with the change they made, but we have no idea about the details of the decision-making process that led to it.

From there, it’s started to cross the line into urban legend, and now half the community seems to believe that NCSoft has expressly forbidden ArenaNet from including Cantha in the game ever again (which is a bit weird, since they already did it in GW1 and NCSoft published that, too…).

Tai Kratos.3247:

Azrael.4960:

Many Chinese youngsters these days carry the grudges of their forebears. I worked with a Chinese lady some years ago. A few years older than me, absolutely hated the Japanese for what they did to her grandparents’ generation. She’s not alone. Anti Japanese sentiment flares up every now and then in both China and Korea. Japanese youngsters don’t know what the big fuss is because successive governments have tried to whitewash it all. My late grandparents lived through the Japanese occupation and one of my grandmother’s had an understandable hatred for Japan.

For a culture is as old and as long lived as China’s they carry their grudges for a long time.

Europe has largely gotten over Germany because they accepted their responsibility. If Japan would do the same, China and Korea could move on

I actually have a Chinese roommate right now, and he literally does not give a kitten about any of that stuff. Very open minded about that, and takes an interest in the foods, traditions, and music of all neighboring cultures. Same with a Korean roommate I had a year ago. Maybe they’re exceptions and I just got lucky, but it seems at least some people are moving on. (I don’t mean that in a “get over it” sort of way. Trying to not be insensitive here.)

But what were the cultural blends in Cantha that people found offensive – if any – anyways? Just curious. Did they mix names, architecture, lore, and fashion up? I know in music, they tended to use scales more similar to Chinese music than Japanese, but that’s all I know for sure.

You’ll generally find those lucky enough to leave China for studies will often be more liberal about those things. But they’re in the minority and there are still a lot of rural people who have never left their village and they look to their elders for guidance. And it is those who will be most affected. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it’s nonetheless a very prevalent attitude. Just watch the news whenever Japan and China have a scuffle on the world political stage and see the anti Japan sentiment bubble up.

Western born Asians, such as myself, will understand their grandparents’ perspective but our world view is tinted by our western education and upbringing. The younger generation from the big cities like Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc are in too much of a rush to make their fortune to really care about the past that way.

Bringing Cantha back, especially with a Chinese version of the game, is going to require very extended consultation with people in China. There are a lot of subtleties in Chinese culture many of which even I’m not familiar with but which need to be accounted for when presenting anything that has even a hint of Chinese culture in it.

Who says anet was removed everything related to Cantha?

I dont think thats the case.

The problem with DR’s western district was not that its Canthan, the problem was that it mixed various asian styles into a supposedly Canthan style.

It was the mix that would be a problem in China, if they made Cantha a 1 to 1 copy of chinese culture and portrayed it positively, nobody would have cared.

But the mix was basically an insult because there are still a lot of tensions between China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc and it felt like Arenanet was going with a stereotipical “its asian because it looks like the china restaurant next street” look.

lordkrall.7241:

Tai Kratos.3247:

As I said earlier, Kryta is a mix of all things Western. And if mixing Asian cultures (which why they don’t include India is beyond me) is a bad thing, then why not just pick one? Like, only theme it after China?

Because the western world is not the same as the eastern world? Completely different cultures and such.

Mixing some culture doesn’t mean they have to mix every single culture. There are massive amounts of different cultures in that general area.

Because that was not how Cantha was back in the days, and it would be rather weird to suddenly revisit it with it being completely different (such as a whole other culture) from before?

Um, they were completely isolated for more than 100 years. A lot of change can happen in that time, especially if you draw parallels to the Meiji Restoration. Although, in this case it would be a reversal, huh?

Cantha is still part of the lore… Its not been ERASED from the game, Canthan themed stuff and story does not mean they are “hinting” at Cantha.

The new weapon skins and costume hints at cantha.

I see they have used the word can several times over the years OMG Cantha released next week!

Zoid.2568:

The new weapon skins and costume hints at cantha.

No. This is china service only.

Cantha will be there, if GW2 will survive long enough. I would assume it will be tied together with the Deep Sea Dragon expansion.

Zoid.2568:

The new weapon skins and costume hints at cantha.

#facepalm, the whole event is Canthan / Chinese in origin, doesn’t mean its hinting at ANYTHING…