Guild Wars 2

You bought a game that is primarily PvE in nature. If you weren’t required to do PvE only tasks, there would be very little for you to actually do outside of padding your gank totals. There’s only so much for you to do in PvP. The PvE world is far bigger and far more diverse, providing a lot more avenues for achievements.

Even so, the answer would have been to provide either a PvP only path to legendaries in addition to a PvE path, or have two completely separate reward and achievement tracks.

ArenaNet’s biggest failure in this game is trying to play social engineer by coaxing players devoted to one game style, into playing the other. This might be useful for people who have no experience with MMOs, but for the majority of us, WE ALREADY KNOW what we like. We KNOW what PvP means and we know what PvE means. We don’t need to be coaxed into one or the other because we can decide for ourselves what we should be trying out and what we needn’t bother with.

The system that’s been put in place smacks of a “we know what you want better than you know yourself” attitude. Well, in this they were very wrong and made an error in judgment. My guess is that they were trying so many new things with this game that thought that they could also manipulate the core interests of their players, if they could apply the correct amount of pressure in the correct way. That was a mistake.

Just like I don’t play sports games or platformers, I don’t PvP in my MMORPGs. It’s not why I buy them and not why I enjoy them. No amount of hamfisted prodding is going to change that. The sad thing is that ArenaNet really should have known better. Ball → dropped.

Jestunhi.7429:

Krosslite.1950:

I have no dificulty doing PvP.
Again as mention in my first post. I am rather good at it.
I just no longer wish to do it. It not fun.

You choose not to do it, you should accept the consequences of your decision.

That’s what adults do.

The fact is that you are not forced to get a legendary weapons or 100% map completion, and you are not unable to do so while disliking WvW. You choose to want one and you refuse to do WvW – both your decisions.

Too bad that legendaries are the only long-term goals in the game, so if you want to participate in the only months long metagame available, this is the ONLY way to do it. You might as well call level capping an option. You don’t really have to do it, but it’s a goal that everyone eventually wants to reach. A short-term goal though. Dungeons and armor sets provide the medium-term goals. Legendaries are the only long-term goals. Everything else can be completed without ever even considering PvP. But the late game carrot, the only late game carrot, demands it.

So in your mind no one plays a game to have fun or enjoy themselves?

It’s to get an item so that they can then quit the game because there’s no longer a goal.

Still, the fact remains that it’s your decision to only play part of the game which is limiting what you are able to achieve.

:edit:

I can imagine them when they first heard about GW2.

“Did you hear, they are including multiple levels of rarity! We need to buy the game quick so we can get an item in the rarest category!”

I am good at pve I just dont like it. can I have my cookie now?

If you dont like it dont do it – there is a price to pay – pay it or not, we all have to make that decision.
moving on.
PS without WvW there is no endgame.. and that is a mess (both)

Because its a PvP game……. with an incredible PvE content be thankful most PvP games have offensive PvE

Ameepa.6793:

Monthly WvW part is very fast to do. Join the zerg for an hour and you are done for that month. I suggest that try it at least once before asking for a change. You might even notice that you like it. I am not a huge PvP fan either, but I started to like www. It is so different than regular 5 min deathmatch battleground.

This was the problem for me, the people in wvw (which I bought the game to play), would rather join in a pack and run about like fools, there were so many times where the outcome would have been different if the game was more strategic. I think wvw will be one of the failures of this game long term, due to A-Net not trying to make it a more cohesive (read structured, ranks etc.) experience the game will eventually dry up.

Amnon just stop. You and others like you are the reason crap like this exists in the game. Become some elitist players can’t handle the fact that others can accomplish the same things that they have and therfor they must work to make EVERYTHING so hard that only the top 1% of players can accomplish anything of any importance whatsoever.

NEWSFLASH, this is a GAME. Games are meant to be entertaining and fun. In order for them to continue to be entertaining and fun, people must be rewarded so that they have a reason to continue to play and spend money, otherwise it’s repetitive and becomes a JOB. I do not intend to make it a job. I do not want to spend my entire evening pounding down a castle wall so I can get inside and get the one POI and be miserable whilst I do it. This is not fun to some people. Does that mean that we shouldn’t be allowed to accomplish in game milestones? Are we inferior players or intellectual dwarfs because we actually would prefer to do something fun instead of something not fun?

What exactly is so WRONG with having a separate PvE and PvP world? I didn’t hear a SINGLE person complain about how the two were not interconnected in GW1, but now it as if the sky is falling at every suggestion they be separated.

I remember in GW1 I had great respect for people wearing their Gladiator titles or popping their dragon emotes because I could never accomplish that, and I had PvP’rs tell me they thought the fact that I had 100% explored and vanquished was cool because they could never sit and do that because it was boring to them. Now we have PvP’rs telling us were terrible because we can’t accomplish their crap and our crap. This is WAAAAY better.

P.S. To h*#l with Legendaries. I just want 100% completion for completing 100% of TYRIA. PvPers can keep the MISTS and the elitist players with to much time and money can have and keep their stupid red weapons.

Many players come to GW2 only for PvE. Forcing them to PvP for a monthly achievement does not benefit anyone, even ANet themselves. They only risk losing those players who hate PvP. And it is pointless to have people hates PvP to be in the battlefield, unless you insist them to stay there because you needs your prey. i.e. again risking them to leave the game after grieving.

GW2 is a very good game even with PvE alone. Why force people to PvP? Aren’t you not confident for your PvE content? Do you think you need to force them to PvP so they would stay longer in the game. I don’t see the point. It should be best to have a PvP Montly and a PvE Monthly, and I guess no one would object that.

Fine, separate it.

But I don’t want to hear one god kitten (lul kitten =^.^=) peep about how you people can’t get the PVP Completion reward. NOT ONE kitten PEEP.

Commander Cougs.6948:

Amnon just stop. You and others like you are the reason crap like this exists in the game. Become some elitist players can’t handle the fact that others can accomplish the same things that they have and therfor they must work to make EVERYTHING so hard that only the top 1% of players can accomplish anything of any importance whatsoever.

NEWSFLASH, this is a GAME. Games are meant to be entertaining and fun. In order for them to continue to be entertaining and fun, people must be rewarded so that they have a reason to continue to play and spend money, otherwise it’s repetitive and becomes a JOB. I do not intend to make it a job. I do not want to spend my entire evening pounding down a castle wall so I can get inside and get the one POI and be miserable whilst I do it. This is not fun to some people. Does that mean that we shouldn’t be allowed to accomplish in game milestones? Are we inferior players or intellectual dwarfs because we actually would prefer to do something fun instead of something not fun?

What exactly is so WRONG with having a separate PvE and PvP world? I didn’t hear a SINGLE person complain about how the two were not interconnected in GW1, but now it as if the sky is falling at every suggestion they be separated.

I remember in GW1 I had great respect for people wearing their Gladiator titles or popping their dragon emotes because I could never accomplish that, and I had PvP’rs tell me they thought the fact that I had 100% explored and vanquished was cool because they could never sit and do that because it was boring to them. Now we have PvP’rs telling us were terrible because we can’t accomplish their crap and our crap. This is WAAAAY better.

P.S. To h*#l with Legendaries. I just want 100% completion for completing 100% of TYRIA. PvPers can keep the MISTS and the elitist players with to much time and money can have and keep their stupid red weapons.

Then don’t do it. Who’s forcing you to?

PLAY FOR FUN! Do the things which you enjoy (if the thing that you enjoy is “achieving everything in the game while only playing part of it” then I don’t know what to tell you, except that you could use a more realistic goal).

And if you no longer enjoy the game and believe that your only goal is to get 100% map completion (which some people in this thread seem to be implying) then what will you do if ANet actually fulfills your request? Quit because there is no longer a goal?

That would be a really good move on their part, wouldn’t it?

Commander Cougs.6948:

Amnon just stop. You and others like you are the reason crap like this exists in the game. Become some elitist players can’t handle the fact that others can accomplish the same things that they have and therfor they must work to make EVERYTHING so hard that only the top 1% of players can accomplish anything of any importance whatsoever.

NEWSFLASH, this is a GAME. Games are meant to be entertaining and fun. In order for them to continue to be entertaining and fun, people must be rewarded so that they have a reason to continue to play and spend money, otherwise it’s repetitive and becomes a JOB. I do not intend to make it a job. I do not want to spend my entire evening pounding down a castle wall so I can get inside and get the one POI and be miserable whilst I do it. This is not fun to some people. Does that mean that we shouldn’t be allowed to accomplish in game milestones? Are we inferior players or intellectual dwarfs because we actually would prefer to do something fun instead of something not fun?

What exactly is so WRONG with having a separate PvE and PvP world? I didn’t hear a SINGLE person complain about how the two were not interconnected in GW1, but now it as if the sky is falling at every suggestion they be separated.

I remember in GW1 I had great respect for people wearing their Gladiator titles or popping their dragon emotes because I could never accomplish that, and I had PvP’rs tell me they thought the fact that I had 100% explored and vanquished was cool because they could never sit and do that because it was boring to them. Now we have PvP’rs telling us were terrible because we can’t accomplish their crap and our crap. This is WAAAAY better.

P.S. To h*#l with Legendaries. I just want 100% completion for completing 100% of TYRIA. PvPers can keep the MISTS and the elitist players with to much time and money can have and keep their stupid red weapons.

Stop whining. You get rewarded for each zone you complete; and you get rewarded for completing the entire game world. You want an intermediate reward? What, are you such an attention kitten that it REALLY means so much to you to have some achievement written off that you’ve completed 95% of the world??

As for elitism, yes, this IS a game, and people DO play to have fun – which is why reducing the difficulty to match the lowest common denominator (people like you) is NOT good. If you wanted a game with no challenge, you should have picked up a copy of Barbie Island Adventure.

And let me remind you: to get this achievement, it’s not like you actually have to do any PvP or anything. You just have to explore the PvP world – as in walk around it, not necessarily kill anyone. Big. Kitty. Whoop. Get a grip on yourself, the time you’ve spent here whining about it could have been better spent getting that achievement already.

PvE players have to do some PvP, PvP players have to do some PvE. Deal with it

I have yet to see a single argument why the current situation is better. Just bunch of people repeating:
“it’s optional”: Everything is optional, with this reasoning they should add more sharks to spvp.
“it’s a pvp game”: Yeah, right.
“don’t make it easy”: If your definition of difficulty is “wait possibly-long-unknown time/change server, wait bit more on queues, do something unproductive on team-based scenario” then you really shouldn’t be talking about game design.
“lol, you need whole world”: Dungeons aren’t included, oh right, they aren’t part of your “world”.

Wethospu.6437:

I have yet to see a single argument why the current situation is better. Just bunch of people repeating:
“it’s optional”: Everything is optional, with this reasoning they should add more sharks to spvp.
“it’s a pvp game”: Yeah, right.
“don’t make it easy”: If your definition of difficulty is “wait possibly-long-unknown time/change server, wait bit more on queues, do something unproductive on team-based scenario” then you really shouldn’t be talking about game design.
“lol, you need whole world”: Dungeons aren’t included, oh right, they aren’t part of your “world”.

Yeah, because “Yeah, right.” is a proper argument on your behalf.

Good, you agree with rest then, makes this much simpler.
Game has both PvP and PvE. I can’t believe you have missed the PvE part entirely. If you want to see it yourself make a character and go play.

Wethospu.6437:

I have yet to see a single argument why the current situation is better. Just bunch of people repeating:
“it’s optional”: Everything is optional, with this reasoning they should add more sharks to spvp.
“it’s a pvp game”: Yeah, right.
“don’t make it easy”: If your definition of difficulty is “wait possibly-long-unknown time/change server, wait bit more on queues, do something unproductive on team-based scenario” then you really shouldn’t be talking about game design.
“lol, you need whole world”: Dungeons aren’t included, oh right, they aren’t part of your “world”.

So we have to justify the devs making the game as they envision and you are justified demanding changes for no reason whatsoever?

Wethospu, highlighting the most obvious showcase of your hypocrisy does not imply agreement with the rest of it.
Yes, I’m mainly a PvE player, and I don’t particularly enjoy WvW – but I honestly don’t see any reason to complain about the cost of the largest achievement in the game, because it’s meant to be a milestone. If ANet said you’d need to do dungeons as well for world completion, I would have had no problem with it, either.

Lowering the bar to fit the lowest common denominator has cost this world of so many potentially good things; particularly in the entertainment field. I’m glad ANet thinks twice before lowering the bar.

Amnon would like EVE Online. A game where PvP players have completely ruined it for everyone else because they think players with a lower skill level don’t deserve to have any fun or get anything nice, or exist in the game world for that matter.

Would it really crush your world for PvP and PvE to be separated? Is your PvP zone that devoid of targets that you need random PvE explorers taking up space in your world so you will have a reason to log in everyday?

Commander Cougs.6948:

Amnon would like EVE Online. A game where PvP players have completely ruined it for everyone else because they think players with a lower skill level don’t deserve to have any fun or get anything nice, or exist in the game world for that matter.

Would it really crush your world for PvP and PvE to be separated? Is your PvP zone that devoid of targets that you need random PvE explorers taking up space in your world so you will have a reason to log in everyday?

Haven’t I mentioned, twice already, that I’m a PvE player and don’t particularly enjoy WvW either? Interesting, we’ve either entered a time loop, or you’re just a dishonest person.

And yes, it would crush my world for PvP and PvE to be separated. You know why? Not because it would feel like less of a challenge to perform the largest challenge in the game – but because I’d always be reminded that people cater to the lowest common denominator like yourself.

I’m not an elite player, I consider myself average. I still don’t have all WvW maps explored. But the challenge is fun for me, and not being able to complete everything in a day is fun for me, also. Challenges that are only challenging for the worst the playerbase has to offer – are not really challenges, and are not fun. There are things to cater for you guys in this game, and I’m all for it – but there are also things to cater for players like me in this game, and you should stop whining and crying for them to take it away from us and give it to you.

This reminds me of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/I-don-t-understand-the-logic-of-Map-completion-jump-puzzles-in-WvW/first

All this thread is is Group A bashing Group B, just like that one, over Map Completion opinions.

Many of the PvE crowd made our points very clear in that thread, so I’ll just leave it here. Enjoy your bickering.

Commander Cougs.6948:

Amnon would like EVE Online. A game where PvP players have completely ruined it for everyone else because they think players with a lower skill level don’t deserve to have any fun or get anything nice, or exist in the game world for that matter.

Would it really crush your world for PvP and PvE to be separated? Is your PvP zone that devoid of targets that you need random PvE explorers taking up space in your world so you will have a reason to log in everyday?

How it is in Eve has no relation to how it is here. There are no PKers going around killing you while you level – PvP is 100% consensual in GW2. If you don’t want to PvP, don’t go into PvP zones.

I suspect what you mean is “please take away all pvp achievements and anything involving PvP so I can completely fill up my achievement window by only playing part of the game”, which is a completely different complaint.

When it comes to MMO design a smart company will completely separate pve and pvp aspects in design. What I mean is a company should look to make a complete pve experience and a complete pvp experience that can stand alone on their own.

If not they are only limiting their player base. I don’t mind pvp, my wife despises it and will not participate in it at all. My game shouldn’t feel more complete than hers, that’s just silly.

So, you complete more of the game than her but it shouldn’t feel more complete?

Does she agree that she should get handouts? That she should be given the same completion as you for doing less?

Xenite.7418:

When it comes to MMO design a smart company will completely separate pve and pvp aspects in design. What I mean is a company should look to make a complete pve experience and a complete pvp experience that can stand alone on their own.

If not they are only limiting their player base. I don’t mind pvp, my wife despises it and will not participate in it at all. My game shouldn’t feel more complete than hers, that’s just silly.

I haven’t seen you ever made any game ? You did ? Please provide any links, I’m eager to check it.

As for EVE-Online. It’s PvP game. If you really came to it to play only PvE…. I just lost any hope for humanity.

Oh and stopp kittening (hahaha I won’t let autocensor make it), because it won’t change. You should know that majority of players don’t care, because they are busy playing the game and official forums are always plagued by vocal minority that do not play.

I Wish we still have poll in-game to rate content.

why the hell does a pvp area have anything to do with pve? gw1 got that area right.

poe lyfe.5879:

why the hell does a pvp area have anything to do with pve? gw1 got that area right.

Who said World Completion is a PvE achievement? It’s a GAME completion achievement.
Start seeing it as one, and not as a “PvE Freebie”.

dont have fun in pvp? dont do it, have fun playing the huge pve world. no you can’t have ALL the achievements.

run out of things to do in pve? can’t make legendaries because you refuse to pvp? quit the game until they release a content patch, or forever. no one cares, they already have your money.

deal with it.

I do feel like a system for Monthly achievements where there was a number, lets say 10 for an example, total possible achievements. These 10 were to be made up of 5 PvE and 5 PvP achievements. In order to get the Monthly Achievement you would only be required to get 5 out of 10 achievements, meaning those who only pvp or pve both have a chance to get it without being forced into the other.

As for the map completion, as said it isn’t a necessity but the idea of having the title ‘Been there, Done That’ without even stepping into the WvW maps seems a bit silly and you don’t even need to pvp for it just to walk into all the locations as your server locates them. Now if they made the sPvP maps necessary that would be different.

The 500 badges required for the legendary don’t actually require pvp at all, you can farm them purely through doing the jump puzzles located in each of the maps but you do run the risk of having to defend yourself. It is possible to get both this and the 100%map without even attacking another person, however difficult that might be, but I do agree that Monthly Achievements shouldn’t force you to pvp, even though it is quite an easy achievement to fill, some people don’t enjoy it, were told they wouldn’t have to do it, and are now being made to.

You know, there more PvP in farming the jumping puzzles until you get 500 tokens than sitting at a fort firing meteors or arrow carts into mindless zergs.

Amnon.4769:

Wethospu, highlighting the most obvious showcase of your hypocrisy does not imply agreement with the rest of it.
Yes, I’m mainly a PvE player, and I don’t particularly enjoy WvW – but I honestly don’t see any reason to complain about the cost of the largest achievement in the game, because it’s meant to be a milestone. If ANet said you’d need to do dungeons as well for world completion, I would have had no problem with it, either.

Lowering the bar to fit the lowest common denominator has cost this world of so many potentially good things; particularly in the entertainment field. I’m glad ANet thinks twice before lowering the bar.

It is not about making it easier, it is about making it less stupid. We don’t want it easier, we want it improved.
Exploring perfectly fits PvE content, you are there to experience the environment. Exploring hardly fits PvP environment, you are there to fight other people.

There are plenty of other ways to make it more harder to get legendaries. They don’t have to stick with the worst option.
There are also ways to make World Completion harder (as you mentioned, dungeons). Again they don’t have to stick with the worst option.

Getting the 100% exploration on the WvWvW maps isn’t that hard:
1) Find a a server that loves to nightcap. (Vizunah Square for example)
2) Join the WvWvW maps early in the morning like 7 am.
3) Profit.

Wethospu.6437:

It is not about making it easier, it is about making it less stupid. We don’t want it easier, we want it improved.
Exploring perfectly fits PvE content, you are there to experience the environment. Exploring hardly fits PvP environment, you are there to fight other people.

Then should the jump puzzles also be removed from the WvW maps? Perhaps the NPCs, also? The gathering resources certainly, as crafting is a PvE activity and not PvP. And I mean, the whole castles and running between them is not very PvE-like, maybe you’re not doing much killing while running around fighting walls.

I could go on, but I think the point is clear that WvW is not pure PvP regardless.

Jestunhi.7429:

So we have to justify the devs making the game as they envision and you are justified demanding changes for no reason whatsoever?

Reasons have already been listed in this thread. You are right though, I should have mentioned them to ease discussion.
Do you know why people don’t want to discuss with fan-boys? Because they keep sticking to their opinion (devs vision) without even trying to justify it.

So the arguments why World Completion should be changed
1) Makes people feel that they are being pushed to play WvW.
- World Completion consists mostly of non-WvW. This creates a feeling as if WvW-requirement was just added to push people to WvW.
- Requirements for World Completion aren’t clearly explained. It is very easy to start working on it while thinking it as a pure PvE-goal. It is easy to get upset when you have put major effort towards a goal only to realize you need to also do something annoying/painful.

2) WvW is not a part of the world (and even if it is, dungeons should be first included).

3) Relies on gimmicky and awkward mechanics.
– Easy way to explore is server swap. While still free, it will start costing at some point. Also need of a server swap shows clear issues with design.
– Need to wait 1 week for a change in colors or/and match-up. This is not case with most of the WC (non-smooth design).
– Need to rely on other players (you really can’t solocap). Again this is not the case with most of the WC (non-smooth design).

4) Exploring doesn’t make sense in PvP environment.
– The major goal of WvW is gain points by holding stuff. To hold stuff you need to capture/defend them. Exploring is against this design (while not an issue, kind of bad design).
– In WvW you are part of a team. In many cases you are taking up a slot from someone who could work for the team. This means you are a liability (bad design).

Amnon.4769:

Wethospu.6437:

It is not about making it easier, it is about making it less stupid. We don’t want it easier, we want it improved.
Exploring perfectly fits PvE content, you are there to experience the environment. Exploring hardly fits PvP environment, you are there to fight other people.

Then should the jump puzzles also be removed from the WvW maps? Perhaps the NPCs, also? The gathering resources certainly, as crafting is a PvE activity and not PvP. And I mean, the whole castles and running between them is not very PvE-like, maybe you’re not doing much killing while running around fighting walls.

I could go on, but I think the point is clear that WvW is not pure PvP regardless.

Sure, they could be removed from WvW. However they are there to lure PvE-minded people. Most importantly PvE-guys can do same stuff in pure PvE. If there was “Master Jumper” title then yes, it would be an issue.
Sorry, didn’t understand your “castle-wall” part. Could you elaborate?

Wethospu.6437:

Jestunhi.7429:

So we have to justify the devs making the game as they envision and you are justified demanding changes for no reason whatsoever?

Reasons have already been listed in this thread. You are right though, I should have mentioned them to ease discussion.

As have reasons against the proposed change.

Do you know why people don’t want to discuss with fan-boys? Because they keep sticking to their opinion (devs vision) without even trying to justify it.

G back through this thread and re-check. You will find that many people have given reasons. Disagreeing with you does not make one a fanboy, and if you expect your posts to be taken seriously you need to accept that.

So the arguments why World Completion should be changed
1) Makes people feel that they are being pushed to play WvW.
- World Completion consists mostly of non-WvW. This creates a feeling as if WvW-requirement was just added to push people to WvW.

I disagree, at no point have I felt required to WvW. The only reason you feel “required” to do so is because you are aiming for an achievement which is not purely PvE.

Which leads into…

- Requirements for World Completion aren’t clearly explained. It is very easy to start working on it while thinking it as a pure PvE-goal. It is easy to get upset when you have put major effort towards a goal only to realize you need to also do something annoying/painful.

I’m fully in favour of labeling achievements “PvE”, “PvP”, or “Mixed” to allow you to better choose which ones fit your playstyle. I’m not in favour of segregation by removing any which reward players for playing the entire game instead of just part of it..

2) WvW is not a part of the world (and even if it is, dungeons should be first included).

Depends on your usage of the word world. And if you reply to this by stating you know exactly what usage they intended then I will require a source.

3) Relies on gimmicky and awkward mechanics.
– Easy way to explore is server swap. While still free, it will start costing at some point. Also need of a server swap shows clear issues with design.
– Need to wait 1 week for a change in colors or/and match-up. This is not case with most of the WC (non-smooth design).
– Need to rely on other players (you really can’t solocap). Again this is not the case with most of the WC (non-smooth design).

It rewards teamwork and takes time to achieve. And in your mind this is a bad thing…

4) Exploring doesn’t make sense in PvP environment.

Only if you consider PvP to be only a player fighting another player.

PvE is so much more than a player fighting an NPC… why do you have such a limited view of PvP?

- The major goal of WvW is gain points by holding stuff. To hold stuff you need to capture/defend them. Exploring is against this design (while not an issue, kind of bad design).

Co-ordination and teamwork could well lend themselves to players acting like scouts and exploring. In PvP situational awareness is one of the most important things. And you don’t have that without knowing your surroundings.

- In WvW you are part of a team. In many cases you are taking up a slot from someone who could work for the team. This means you are a liability (bad design).

This part I actually agree with.

I would quote but it’s broken now for some reason (limited uses or what…).

You can agree or disagree with me, doesn’t make you a fanboy. However, questioning whether you need to justify your opinions is a good way there.

As people feel, well, it is really based on personal feeling. You can have really really bad design and some people will feel ok with it. What you need to realize while some things won’t affect you, they will affect other people. If it doesn’t affect you negatively then you should just let it go and let people have it. If it does affect you negatively then we will get quite tricky discussion (as it will rely on feelings).

I’m quite bad with lore but isn’t WvW in Mists. Dungeons are actually in real world locations. If Mists is included then why isn’t SPvP?

There is a huge difference between “actively working towards something” and “sitting on your kitten #8221;. Encouraging latter is not good design.
Teamwork is good. However mixing teamwork-requirement with non-teamwork-requirement is bad design.

PvP is about fighting against other players. You can do PvE-tasks to do that. However, exploring is not a PvE-task like that.

While a good idea, exploring WvW doesn’t suddenly make you a scout. Explorer are there to get their points, not try to work towards victory.

I have to do PvE to get 100% completion, I hate PvE. Yet I still do it.

So, why can’t ‘you’ do PvP?

And I bet there’s challenges out there in PvE just as hard as the ones in PvP.

Also, why stay on a low-pop server. The ability to transfer worlds for free is temporary…so I suggest you people pick a server now. *Checking the World Selection page all but Kaineng are listed as ‘High’ (5:30 EST)

Are you complaining that you cannot complete every single achievement because there are pvp achievements?

It is really simple , they cannot seperate that simply because pvp is part of the game and has achievements. No matter how you look at it if you havent gotten those you will never have 100% completion ,period.

What is next , i dont like the dungeons pls seperate the dungeons from the rest of teh pvee’ees so i can has completionsss.

What completion ? You havent even tried everything and downright refuse to, let alone completed it. If it is part of the game it is part of completion, if you have issue doing parts of it and refuse to do it then you are not a completionist at all and should not have issue with it.

The ones who do actually do all content even just for the sake of completion ,they deserve it…because …you know…they completed <everything> it is sort of defined right there, obviously.

Commander Cougs.6948:

Amnon just stop. You and others like you are the reason crap like this exists in the game. Become some elitist players can’t handle the fact that others can accomplish the same things that they have and therfor they must work to make EVERYTHING so hard that only the top 1% of players can accomplish anything of any importance whatsoever.

NEWSFLASH, this is a GAME. Games are meant to be entertaining and fun. In order for them to continue to be entertaining and fun, people must be rewarded so that they have a reason to continue to play and spend money, otherwise it’s repetitive and becomes a JOB. I do not intend to make it a job. I do not want to spend my entire evening pounding down a castle wall so I can get inside and get the one POI and be miserable whilst I do it. This is not fun to some people. Does that mean that we shouldn’t be allowed to accomplish in game milestones? Are we inferior players or intellectual dwarfs because we actually would prefer to do something fun instead of something not fun?

What exactly is so WRONG with having a separate PvE and PvP world? I didn’t hear a SINGLE person complain about how the two were not interconnected in GW1, but now it as if the sky is falling at every suggestion they be separated.

I remember in GW1 I had great respect for people wearing their Gladiator titles or popping their dragon emotes because I could never accomplish that, and I had PvP’rs tell me they thought the fact that I had 100% explored and vanquished was cool because they could never sit and do that because it was boring to them. Now we have PvP’rs telling us were terrible because we can’t accomplish their crap and our crap. This is WAAAAY better.

P.S. To h*#l with Legendaries. I just want 100% completion for completing 100% of TYRIA. PvPers can keep the MISTS and the elitist players with to much time and money can have and keep their stupid red weapons.

You are a perfect example why games these days are so easy to play, hardly any challenge It’s all about me me me handed on a silver platter for little effort as possible.

Maby we could change the game so it fits everyone shall we?
Let see…
Those who hate PVE should not be forced to do they can be level 80 straight out from character creation.
Those who hate exploring doing POI and Vista why not give them an option for auto explore.
Those who hate crafting why not let them start out from character creation allready maxed in crafting tiers.
Those who hate doing dungeons let’s not forget about them, they can be handed the rare loot instead beacuse you know I hate doing dungeons but I enjoy good looking armor.

This sounds like a fun game huh, don’t it?

The above posts are correct.

If achievements existing which require PvP is an issue them logically achievements requiring PvE is equally unacceptable.

Otherwise you are “forcing” PvPers to PvE.

Torgrim, I completely agree with you. When we keep catering to the lowest common denominator, the game devolves. Today it’s giving out free achievements to people who outright refuse to even explore the WvW map, tomorrow we’ll have an expansion of Monk-Kodans exploring Cantha, where you can catch Skritt and pit them against each other in pet battles.

And here I thought we could have an actual discussion, oh dear.

Wethospu.6437:

And here I thought we could have an actual discussion, oh dear.

Lets discuss why it’s acceptable for people to be “forced” to PvE, but not “forced” to PvP?

If you want to discuss about it, then make a topic about it. No need to go off-topic on this one.

Hi,

Please keep the thread on topic and in a friendly and constructive tone. If there is an issue apart you would like to discuss, feel free to make a thread about it.

Thanks for your understanding

But it directly relates to the proposal, making Map completion 100% PvE based would make it worse – therefore it needs to be considered and discussed.

:edit:

“Moderator” – do you see the negatives of a proposed change as being off topic?

:edit:

Or for that matter discussing the reason behind the proposed change?

World Completion is mostly a pure PvE goal. PvP players already need to do plenty of PvE for that. If they were already willing to play PvE for it then something additional (if any) shouldn’t be a problem.
I understand people may want that star to their name. I’m all for showing a star in WvW for WvW Completion and showing a star in PvE for PvE Completion.
Legendaries can have increased PvP requirements to compensate.

I’m a PvE’er, never have liked PvP, im sitting at 97% which means I’ve been WvW cleared 3 indentical maps,so much for exploring, just by loading into that area all my waypoints are added, I don’t even have to go and get them. I got my 50 kills for monthly by joining a 30+ mob steamrolling everything. If you try to “explore” solo you are ofc met with the other teams 30+ “zerg”, ofc thats so much fun.

Atm I have 2 choices to finish this, I leave my friends for a couple of days (change servers) and get the rest I need (wishing id abused the free transfers so i could have done this in a couple of hrs) or I wait for our colour to change.. this has been 3 weeks now that this hasnt happened, so you cant say im not patient.

So as a PvE’er in WvW, what are you really getting, well I take a spot in queue, im not going to run across a map and help take a fort/keep (whatever), sorry but fighting in 30+ teams isn’t fun, neither is being met with that either. Infact nothing is gained by me entering this area, except I do feel guilty taking a space of someone that actually finds this fun, so now we have 2 unhappy people doing things they don’t want to do, because that other player is having to PvE while he/she waits for me to finish running about getting that last PoI.

I agree that “we” shouldn’t have it easy, I find it funny how you can get 100% without even completing the storyline, getting all the PoI’s in dungeons, but to have to explore the same map 3 times just by being a different colour im not sure how that shows Ive mastered anything accept Ive waited for things to change.. or abused the free server transfers

Tbh I don’t even care that the monthly has 50 WvW kills in it, I never went for it before and since it bugged the month I actually manage it, im not going to cry that I will never get it again. I just dont look at that tab in achievements.. sorted, neither do I look at my WvW tab because this doesn’t interest me, or any other tab that’s not PvE related.

You can say “Im not being forced”, but when you reach 93% that the other 7% is in entirely different game, and that 4% of that is identical content x 3 (basing this on the fact i just need the 2 areas in EB i haven’t been lucky to be “the right colour”) you start to wonder what the reason was to make this PvP area part of the world. Tbh I would like to know the reasoning behind this, rather than people making assumptions.

Im a title grinder, so don’t hate that I actually thought this was a PvE title, if i knew it wasn’t I wouldn’t have bothered with some of the silly Vista’s put into jump puzzles, which is another pet hate and a different story. Oh and i have no intentions of ever owning a Legendary I value my hard earned gold too much. It also doesnt bother me that Il never fill all those little medals on char screen, thats my choice not to PvP, i can live with it.

(sorry for the long read this is just my opinion)

Wethospu.6437:

Amnon.4769:

Wethospu, highlighting the most obvious showcase of your hypocrisy does not imply agreement with the rest of it.
Yes, I’m mainly a PvE player, and I don’t particularly enjoy WvW – but I honestly don’t see any reason to complain about the cost of the largest achievement in the game, because it’s meant to be a milestone. If ANet said you’d need to do dungeons as well for world completion, I would have had no problem with it, either.

Lowering the bar to fit the lowest common denominator has cost this world of so many potentially good things; particularly in the entertainment field. I’m glad ANet thinks twice before lowering the bar.

It is not about making it easier, it is about making it less stupid. We don’t want it easier, we want it improved.
Exploring perfectly fits PvE content, you are there to experience the environment. Exploring hardly fits PvP environment, you are there to fight other people.

There are plenty of other ways to make it more harder to get legendaries. They don’t have to stick with the worst option.
There are also ways to make World Completion harder (as you mentioned, dungeons). Again they don’t have to stick with the worst option.

This sounds like a design problem.

Perhaps if developers would add more to PvP, people would explore it more?

I’ll never understand why folks think that PvP can’t have story, or questing or “exploration” or anything else that is “PvE specific”.

I commend Anet for stepping outside this silly box that some folks seem to have created

PvP (WvW) is competitive. Everything you do either gives your team or your opponent an advantage. If you are just exploring your opponent is getting an advantage (as you aren’t doing anything beneficial).
Is there some specific need to explore in area where you will be a liability?

On solo free-for-all PvP area I would understand exploring.

If you are looking for a perfectly sterile PvP enviorment, the game offers better options than WvW.