Guild Wars 2

It is understandable that there will be less useful people in WvW. However, there is no point encouraging that kind of behavior.

Wethospu.6437:

It is understandable that there will be less useful people in WvW. However, there is no point encouraging that kind of behavior.

For someone like yourself who does not like WvW, you seem to be awfully concerned with the welfare of your realm. While players who enter in order to explore only do so once, perhaps it would also encourage them to actually play WvW – which would gain your realm permanent, useful, defenders.

Wethospu.6437:

It is understandable that there will be less useful people in WvW. However, there is no point encouraging that kind of behavior.

I don’t have a problem with it. Perhaps on our way to the next POI my group and i run into a few enemy scouts, and succesfully take them out?

Sounds like a benefit to our team, hardly useless.

If i wanted to play a sterile, dull, and monotonous “WvW” game, I’d probably still be playing Warhammer.

/shrug

Why not devide the completion in two catagories

1: Tyria Compleation is all the PVE zones 100%
2: World completion all PVE zones and all PvP zone 100% which means the whole gameworld and all it zones and activites)

World completion for me is just as the name suggest I’ve experienced everything the game has to offer atleast once.

But I guess people like OP will whine about that ones aswell.

Wethospu.6437:

World Completion is mostly a pure PvE goal. PvP players already need to do plenty of PvE for that. If they were already willing to play PvE for it then something additional (if any) shouldn’t be a problem.
I understand people may want that star to their name. I’m all for showing a star in WvW for WvW Completion and showing a star in PvE for PvE Completion.
Legendaries can have increased PvP requirements to compensate.

I’ve got to say, saying that PvPers should be used to it as they already have to do loads of PvE is a bit of a cop out.

This whole situation has come about because certain people insist they must get the world completion. Will that magically change once there are 2 world completion achievements instead of 1? Will these people, who are so focused on this arbitrary achievement that they brave the WvW zones which they hate and ask for the game to be redesigned to suit them, suddenly think “Meh, I don’t want that achievement so that’s fine!”?

Amnon.4769:

For someone like yourself who does not like WvW, you seem to be awfully concerned with the welfare of your realm. While players who enter in order to explore only do so once, perhaps it would also encourage them to actually play WvW – which would gain your realm permanent, useful, defenders.

I would like a quote where I have said that I don’t like WvW.
My server is already full enough, I didn’t mind if some people stopped playing WvW.
In my opinion far more superior way to lure people would be “Monthly WvW”-quest. Something to actually encourage playing and probably even enjoying the WvW. If you are just there to explore, it can be a very frustrating experience which is not very good way to lure people.

tic.7425:

I don’t have a problem with it. Perhaps on our way to the next POI my group and i run into a few enemy scouts, and succesfully take them out?

Sounds like a benefit to our team, hardly useless.

If i wanted to play a sterile, dull, and monotonous “WvW” game, I’d probably still be playing Warhammer.

/shrug

Wow, so exploring is what makes the WvW exciting for everyone?

Jestunhi.7429:

I’ve got to say, saying that PvPers should be used to it as they already have to do loads of PvE is a bit of a cop out.

This whole situation has come about because certain people insist they must get the world completion. Will that magically change once there are 2 world completion achievements instead of 1? Will these people, who are so focused on this arbitrary achievement that they brave the WvW zones which they hate and ask for the game to be redesigned to suit them, suddenly think “Meh, I don’t want that achievement so that’s fine!”?

If people want 93% pure PvE goal to be a 100% pure PvE goal that doesn’t mean they would suddenly want every pure PvP goal to be pure PvE goals.
I’m sure if you actually tried a bit you could think of ways to benefit everyone.

Amnon.4769:

Wethospu.6437:

It is understandable that there will be less useful people in WvW. However, there is no point encouraging that kind of behavior.

For someone like yourself who does not like WvW, you seem to be awfully concerned with the welfare of your realm. While players who enter in order to explore only do so once, perhaps it would also encourage them to actually play WvW – which would gain your realm permanent, useful, defenders.

I like that they put map completion to include WvW as well as put blueprints as part of the end Personal Story reward. It encourages people to go out and try it. Even if it’s just to run screaming from PoI to PoI, there’s that always that chance that it will snowball in to something greater and much more fun.

@Amnon

nobody said it was easy to win a Civ V match on the hardest difficulty… but that’s what achievements are – doing things that are not simple and easy.

I DID THIS! Last August. After, like…. months …of experimentation and refinement. It was so, so gratifying. Deity, Standard Speed, Korea, Two City, Science Victory, ~1750 AD.

Wethospu.6437:

If people want 93% pure PvE goal to be a 100% pure PvE goal that doesn’t mean they would suddenly want every pure PvP goal to be pure PvE goals.
I’m sure if you actually tried a bit you could think of ways to benefit everyone.

I’m not so sure.

It’s the entitled attitude.

That “I DESERVE THE ACHIEVEMENT WITHOUT EXPLORING 100%!!!!!!” attitude

Who can say where it will end? It’s completely unacceptable to have just 7% of an achievement be in a PvP area, how long until they realise that the evil PvPers are getting achievements that they don’t have, ones with a shocking 100% PvP requirement?

:edit:

I should point out, before I get infracted, that I am not accusing anyone specific of having that attitude. But the fact remains that this much fuss has been kicked up over 7% of the biggest achievement in the game being PvP based, you think it will stop with this discussion?

Wethospu.6437

Wow, so exploring is what makes the WvW exciting for everyone?

I haven’t a clue where you got the impression i meant that.

As a person who does not like PvP, I have to admit… I always have a blast in WvWvW. The last time I was in there I claimed a keep for my guild and along with random people, we defended it for about 6 hours from all manners of assaults.

I have no problems going into WvWvW for exploration, or just a change of scenery. (Plus the harvestables cannot be beat). If I have to beat someone down in the process, I can get over it and get the job done. Engineers never travel without their bag of tricks.

tic.7425:

Wethospu.6437

Wow, so exploring is what makes the WvW exciting for everyone?

I haven’t a clue where you got the impression i meant that.

It doesn’t make PvE exciting for everyone either, so I fail to see his point.

Eveningstar.6940:

@Amnon

nobody said it was easy to win a Civ V match on the hardest difficulty… but that’s what achievements are – doing things that are not simple and easy.

I DID THIS! Last August. After, like…. months …of experimentation and refinement. It was so, so gratifying. Deity, Standard Speed, Korea, Two City, Science Victory, ~1750 AD.

Congratulations! You’ll have to share some tricks with me one day, since I’m nowhere near being able to do that

And to those who think the achievement shouldn’t have the WvW part, THIS is the exact feeling a major game achievement should bring. The “I’ve done something incredible” feeling, and the “legendary” reward that follows it.

Pennry.9215:

I like that they put map completion to include WvW as well as put blueprints as part of the end Personal Story reward. It encourages people to go out and try it. Even if it’s just to run screaming from PoI to PoI, there’s that always that chance that it will snowball in to something greater and much more fun.

The core issue isn’t really the PoI which you can just grab. The issue is the near impossible situation where you need to capture SM or something deep in enemy lines.

Jestunhi.7429:

—
I should point out, before I get infracted, that I am not accusing anyone specific of having that attitude. But the fact remains that this much fuss has been kicked up over 7% of the biggest achievement in the game being PvP based, you think it will stop with this discussion?

I would expect something less than 7% give bigger discussions, not the vice versa. I would also like to remind that it isn’t just about “PvE-vs-PvP”. That’s just one part of it.

tic.7425:

Wethospu.6437

Wow, so exploring is what makes the WvW exciting for everyone?

I haven’t a clue where you got the impression i meant that.

Good, because I have no clue what you were trying to tell there. Except random stories about WvW and your personal gaming history.
Now if I really try to get something out of it, it is that World Completion rewards scouting.
If they really want to reward scouting they should create a NPC to give scouting missions (availibility scaling based on players, etc.).

Amnon.4769:

—
And to those who think the achievement shouldn’t have the WvW part, THIS is the exact feeling a major game achievement should bring. The “I’ve done something incredible” feeling, and the “legendary” reward that follows it.

Exploring WvW is not incredible or legendary. Period.

Yeah, I’d love to talk shop about Civ 5 sometimes. It was my obsession for a while, although I stopped playing for a bit after achieving Deity, if only because I’d pushed so hard to get to that point that I’d have burnt out otherwise.

Deity wins in Civ 5 is a pretty good example of the sort of achievement that seems difficult, daunting, frustrating and just plain stupid, but when you start chipping away at it and taking it piece by piece, you realize it’s very do-able, but just requires a very solid game plan, practice and attention to detail.

I agree with Amnon on this issue. At first I felt a bit upset that I’d have to roam WvWvW to finish my map, but after taking a deep breath and diving in to the WvWvW maps, I found myself actually enjoying it. It’s really not as hardcore a PVP mode as people make it out to be.

Think of this way: 100% map completion means you’ve explored every nook, corner and cranny of the world. The WvWvW maps are part of that world. They’re the Mistwar. You can’t say you’ve seen everything (which is exactly what “100% map completion” entails) until you’ve seen everything.

That’s why the Achievement is “Been There, Done That.” If you haven’t been to WvWvW, then you haven’t done that.

100% map completion doesn’t mean that you have explored every nook, corner and cranny of the world. It doesn’t include dungeons or SPvP.
Also straight quote of “Been There, Done That” description: “Seeking Zhaitan’s corruption in every corner of Tyria”. WvW is in Mists which isn’t part of Tyria as far as I know.

Wethospu.6437:

Good, because I have no clue what you were trying to tell there. Except random stories about WvW and your personal gaming history.
Now if I really try to get something out of it, it is that World Completion rewards scouting.
If they really want to reward scouting they should create a NPC to give scouting missions (availibility scaling based on players, etc.).

Your reading comprehension is lacking, but regardless, I’m just glad that Anet is not as narrow minded with their approach to gaming as some would like.

Whatever, Wethospu.
You want world completion without completing the world, because you don’t like all of it. You fail to understand that your request is completely unreasonable; and actually destructive to the game.

Funniest thing is, in “that other MMO”, if you wanted to complete the world map you would ALWAYS have to go into the opposite faction’s territory. You’d have to go into their capital cities, for crying out loud. Your chances of dying were between 99.999995% and 100%. Nobody’s complained about that.

EDIT: ANNNNND you’d have to go to Outland, and to other dimensions (deepholm), which are not “part of the world”.

Why the need to make everyone craft…jump to vistas…do hearts…etc? Because the devs decided it would be neat to reward players who did it all.

There are aspects of the game that I’m not a fan of; that doesn’t mean I’m going to ask for a special handicap for my particular style of play.

Torgrim.3642:

Why not devide the completion in two catagories

1: Tyria Compleation is all the PVE zones 100%
2: World completion all PVE zones and all PvP zone 100% which means the whole gameworld and all it zones and activites)

World completion for me is just as the name suggest I’ve experienced everything the game has to offer atleast once.

But I guess people like OP will whine about that ones aswell.

I have already stated this is the best option.
I also feel that I have not whined in this thread. I am not hungry for any cheese. So that settles it. Not whinning.

@Anyone giving the “You can’t say you want 100% without exploring WvW!” argument:
What about Dungeons and SPvP, which doesn’t count towards the achievement? Those don’t count but WvW does? WvW is in the Mists, however Dungeons are in the actual world itself. It makes no sense.

Jestunhi.7429:

Wethospu.6437:

World Completion is mostly a pure PvE goal. PvP players already need to do plenty of PvE for that. If they were already willing to play PvE for it then something additional (if any) shouldn’t be a problem.
I understand people may want that star to their name. I’m all for showing a star in WvW for WvW Completion and showing a star in PvE for PvE Completion.
Legendaries can have increased PvP requirements to compensate.

I’ve got to say, saying that PvPers should be used to it as they already have to do loads of PvE is a bit of a cop out.

This whole situation has come about because certain people insist they must get the world completion. Will that magically change once there are 2 world completion achievements instead of 1? Will these people, who are so focused on this arbitrary achievement that they brave the WvW zones which they hate and ask for the game to be redesigned to suit them, suddenly think “Meh, I don’t want that achievement so that’s fine!”?

The problem is that in GW1, World Exploration was just that, the world. It wasn’t the Mists, which is what WvW is in. Not only that, when you start the World Completion, you are given the impression that it is what you see when you press M on a normal PvE map. Not this special section that you cannot see at all and don’t even know exists until way later (because how many PvErs are going WvWing at Lv.2?).

PvEers are not going into World Completion expecting to have to do WvW. When you hit that 92-93%, and then realize you need to do WvW when that’s not something you enjoy…it’s extremely disappointing. You spent countless hours doing an achievement that seems to be completely PvE, then suddenly the game goes “NOPE! SCREW YOU! GET TO WVW!”

To add to it, why do you need to do the same exact area three times? What’s the point in that? If the triple Borderlands maps were shared as one map for World Completion, it would probably lessen this entire issue by a huge margin. Combined between the three Borderlands, you can get the entire map if they were to be shared without ever venturing out of your World’s territory (unless your World is getting slaughtered, at which point you just come back later). If your World is one of the higher “tier” worlds, there will never be a situation where you are able to explore the entire map. There are almost always sections that are fluctuating far too often to be able to get them without spending a long time in WvW, somewhere you do not want to be, wasting queue and space.

From there, only Eternal Borderlands would be an issue, but that map isn’t really that large and is easier than the other three in terms of 100%ing. I believe this entire situation would be a ton easier to dismiss with your attitude if it didn’t require an excessive amount of time and queue wasting.

Here’s the biggest issue: WvW is almost always full. You can’t even see the WvW map unless you are in WvW. This means that you have to waste time continually going in and out of WvW and hope that your side has the sections of the map you need. This is another example of bad game design. You don’t even get told how long you can expect to wait, and even if you have someone inside who tells you that what you need is good to be explored…by the time you actually get inside there’s a large chance it could be lost again.

These are all valid complaints, things I’ve seen multiple times in every time this type of thread has shown itself, and I’ve yet to see it countered in a logical, reasonable way. It’s always an insult, an attack, or just plain ignoring, but the points remain there and they remain valid.

I’m fully supportive of adding labels stating which achievements are purely PvE, PvP or a mixture.

That way no one would go into it not knowing if it’s suitable for their chosen playstyle.

What I’m not supportive of is the big “woo I did everything!” achievement being changed to only cater to one playstyle.