Guild Wars 2

It seems me like, in many ways, the most pressing issue for this game, mechanically, is the fact that there is basically only one “right” way to gear (and thus few to spec/trait, as well) for PvE. This is caused by two factors – firstly that zerker gear compounds effectiveness in a way no other gear does (including defensive/survival gear), because of the triple-threat of Power, Precision and Critical Damage, and secondly, the low limits to how well condition damage can work in PvE (discussed at length elsewhere).

Given the ArenaNet team are at least somewhat vocal, and frequently discuss their plans and intentions, and problems they perceive with the game, what do we think is going on here. The possibilities that occur to me are:

1) They know it’s a problem but have zero idea about solving it, and are hoping it somehow goes away.

2) They know it’s a problem, and have a plan, but don’t want to tip their hand for fear of economic and other effects.

3) They don’t think it’s a problem, and are happy for zerker gear and power builds to basically be “the only way to go”.

4) They don’t know that it’s even an thing.

If they have ever said anything, and I’ve missed it, please let me know. I hope the answer is 2, but I’m just not sure what I believe given the total lack of comment.

Bet it’s (3). Once they somehow magically find a way to nerf zerker, that’s when people start quitting

1. Condition damage can be too hard for them to solve. They can be aware of it, not hoping that it goes away, just be unable to solve it.
2. Zerker is already getting solved. For example you can’t crit on Teq.

1 and 3 , both

Zerker builds are fine. They are the best builds, but only if you are extremely skilled. Statistically speaking of course, chances are, you are not. Nothing to worry.

Support builds are getting a boost in a few days.

Condition builds are fine dps-wise when alone, but due to a technical limitation get less and less useful the moree conditions are thrown around. I’m sure they recognize the problem and are trying to tackle it.

Eurhetemec.9052:

It seems me like, in many ways, the most pressing issue for this game, mechanically, is the fact that there is basically only one “right” way to gear (and thus few to spec/trait, as well) for PvE.

There’s always one right way to gear, that’s the very definition of “optimal”.

Mirta.5029:

1. Condition damage can be too hard for them to solve. They can be aware of it, not hoping that it goes away, just be unable to solve it.

That’s “hoping it goes away”, because as technology improves, it may become solvable. There’s no such thing as just “too hard” in that sense, either, and certainly not when other games with similar systems don’t have the same issue.

Mirta.5029:

2. Zerker is already getting solved. For example you can’t crit on Teq.

Uh, no. That’s always been the case with Teq. It’s not a new thing. It’s the same with any “object”-style world-boss, and appears to be a technical issue, not intentional design (again, their silence on this leaves it open), given you can’t crit objects either.

haviz.1340:

There’s always one right way to gear, that’s the very definition of “optimal”.

Sure, but that’s being pedantic and missing the forest for the trees. In most games, there will be different ways to gear that are very effective – a different spec may require different gear, for example – indeed there are in GW2 – just not really in PvE. This is clearly an issue. Also, in other games, there are often a number of very close alternatives, which is not really the case here. If you removed Crit Damage from the game, it might be (not my chosen solution, just one approach).

I’ll go for 3 as well.

Is it a problem, I don’t see it as a problem.

Eurhetemec.9052:

That’s “hoping it goes away”, because as technology improves, it may become solvable. There’s no such thing as just “too hard” in that sense, either, and certainly not when other games with similar systems don’t have the same issue.

The engine that they’re using is modified old GW1 engine and therefore freaks out from lots of numbers. That’s why SAB world 2 had to be modified and the water sprouts did not function properly. The engine can’t cope. To solve it they would have to re-code the whole game for a different engine.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Sure, but that’s being pedantic and missing the forest for the trees. In most games, there will be different ways to gear that are very effective – a different spec may require different gear, for example – indeed there are in GW2 – just not really in PvE. This is clearly an issue. Also, in other games, there are often a number of very close alternatives, which is not really the case here. If you removed Crit Damage from the game, it might be (not my chosen solution, just one approach).

Those specs are effective in other games because there’s an emphasis on strict roles and you need all of them to complete a content. Here, we don’t have strict roles and those soft roles we have (support, control and dps) mostly do not require different specs. You don’t get stronger control aspect with different gear and support is balanced such that healing power increases your heal/regen potency but offensive gear increases your reflections and certain supportive conditions like blinds and vulnerability.

Mirta.5029:

The engine that they’re using is modified old GW1 engine and therefore freaks out from lots of numbers. That’s why SAB world 2 had to be modified and the water sprouts did not function properly. The engine can’t cope. To solve it they would have to re-code the whole game for a different engine.

No, they would have to improve aspects of it. Companies do this all the time. Or rework damaging conditions so they don’t involve so many small numbers.

haviz.1340:

You don’t get stronger control aspect with different gear and support is balanced such that healing power increases your heal/regen potency but offensive gear increases your reflections and certain supportive conditions like blinds and vulnerability.

This describes the problem but does not answer or excuse it, nor does it really address the tiny condition cap.

Because it’s not a build/gear issue.

It’s poorly designed content and technical limitations to managing condition stacks.

Nerfing zerker gear or builds won’t change anything (aside slow down running groups or just make content even more dull due to lower DPS).
Buffing support gear or build neither. Same for CC/conditions.

As long as you don’t need anything aside damage and some evasion to clear content efficently, zerker will be the go-to gear, period.
But it’s not the stat combo the issue.

Eurhetemec.9052:

No, they would have to improve aspects of it. Companies do this all the time. Or rework damaging conditions so they don’t involve so many small numbers.

When you’re hit with a technical obstacle you’re hit with a technical obstacle. and no babble of a gamer will ever make it possible to over come.
If you are technically able to crack the engine, mod it and show how you forced the engine not to freak out with all of the conditions then go ahead.

They will announce the problem when they announce a solution. It is bad business to highlight permanent flaws in your service. It is good business to highlight the improvements to your service.

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

style.6173:

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

Agreed.

They could introduce different mechanics or aspects of the game to discourage this. Maybe the next boss will invert toughness and power, meaning all your power will switch to toughness and all your tougness will switch to power (for that boss). That would surely make you bring Rabid gear right?

The issue then becomes you have to have multiple sets. There is already an issue in both that people complain about grinding for new armor (ascended) and the game being not alt-friendly. Oh, and it’s also an extremely cheap gimmick.

God I’d be so happy for conditions to be fully viable in PVE.

Something about stacking 25 bleeds and watching the numbers fly everywhere on the screen makes me want to vomit with glee.

They have already talked about the condition cap and why it can’t be done any other way for the time being.

These are not problems in the usual sense. The preference for zerker builds is a min/max thing, and not every player is interested in min/max builds. I’m not, I don’t think I own a single set of “full zerk” gear over 16 characters. Short of starting the game over from scratch there isn’t anything to do about it. My personal preference is for celestial armor with traveler’s runes and zerker trinkets to balance offensive/defense abilities somewhat.

They discussed the obstacle to conditions reform a long time ago, it has something to do with the way the program handles the numbers. Again, short of tearing it out and reprogramming the engine to handle conditions in a different way, which brings with it thousands of potential bugs, there is nothing they can do. It may be one of the long-term projects they hint about now and then, but if so they’re not going to announce it until it’s ready to go live.

They talked about changing the way precursors are acquired back in Jan/Feb and ever since there have been weekly “are we there yet?” threads demanding results cluttering up the forums. This is why they are not going to talk about things like this until they have something official to announce.

style.6173:

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

No doubt zerker is high reward, but is zerker truly high risk? I think it’s probably not high enough risk. Not enough glass in the glass cannon. If being full zerker made you extremely squishy to the point of being ineffective in most situations, people would be more judicious in its application.

tolunart.2095:

These are not problems in the usual sense. The preference for zerker builds is a min/max thing, and not every player is interested in min/max builds. I’m not, I don’t think I own a single set of “full zerk” gear over 16 characters. Short of starting the game over from scratch there isn’t anything to do about it. My personal preference is for celestial armor with traveler’s runes and zerker trinkets to balance offensive/defense abilities somewhat.

But in PvE you don’t need to balance that.

Most dungeons are horribly easy and just require damage to get it down sooner. Kill it before it kills you, rather than stay alive longer than it stays alive.

Ethics.4519:

tolunart.2095:

These are not problems in the usual sense. The preference for zerker builds is a min/max thing, and not every player is interested in min/max builds. I’m not, I don’t think I own a single set of “full zerk” gear over 16 characters. Short of starting the game over from scratch there isn’t anything to do about it. My personal preference is for celestial armor with traveler’s runes and zerker trinkets to balance offensive/defense abilities somewhat.

But in PvE you don’t need to balance that.

Most dungeons are horribly easy and just require damage to get it down sooner. Kill it before it kills you, rather than stay alive longer than it stays alive.

It’s the way I like to play the game. It works for me, it doesn’t have to work for you.

Conditions might be fixed although from what I understand it’s a rather technical issue that has more to do with the architecture of the game rather than just the design.

Zerker is not a problem. There’s maybe 100 people maximum on these forums that keep posting these " zerker is op" , " fix zerker" and " why zerker is bad " threads. Really.
The vast, overwhelming majority of the player base doesn’t mind zerker and most likely has never even bothered with the forums to say one way or another.

I’ve yet to see someone complain about zerker gear IN GAME.
I doubt they’ll change one of the most used and most loved stat combo in the game for the whims of a rather reduced number of players.
At most – they will create content that will require a more diverse pallet of armor stats to complete successfully but I doubt zerker will ever be changed.

It works, it is fine.

It’s a high risk/ high reward set – you’re basically defenseless. It took me a long time to stop being a floor mop in zerker gear. Most players will never get there. Good players should be rewarded for learning how to position themselves correctly and dodge well.

Also – there are players who prefer to outlast a boss – I understand this concept but that’s just their opinion.
Like the user above i prefer to outkill a boss. To each his own – I’ve got nothing against people doing whatever in full PVT or Cleric’s so long as they don’t have anything against me.

What if… crazy idea…

What if the innate stat values for leveling to 80 were moved over to traits?

So you’d get innate up to 20, but past that all of your non-gear points come from traits.

This would mean that running full dps traits (the things that make zerker builds over-the-top in terms of damage) would end up squishy to the point of insanity… but also that running support lines or tank lines would be effective in a way that could mitigate it.

In additon, give people a secondary trait set to flip to so they could effectively fill multiple roles for group composition, and shore up some of the control/support weaknesses on all classes so that each has really viable support/damage/control focused builds.

This means you have a semblance of trinity, but in a way that allows any class to fill those roles easily. In addition, you could still run balanced builds and still clear content without going for a “hard trinity” spec, as you wouldn’t need “hard support” if you weren’t running “hard DPS”

There’s got to be a middle of the road option that allows more effective non-damage roles without simultaneously requiring those roles.

Orion Templar.4589:

style.6173:

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

No doubt zerker is high reward, but is zerker truly high risk? I think it’s probably not high enough risk. Not enough glass in the glass cannon. If being full zerker made you extremely squishy to the point of being ineffective in most situations, people would be more judicious in its application.

Do you even play full zerker?
“I hate something so much Anet should nerf it into the ground to the point in which it’s not even worth having, that’ll teach those zerkers”.

Whats funny is people always say that zerkers are too OP and the other gear needs to be made viable…

Yet 95% of Puggers Run Knights/Clerics/PVT/Kitten gear… <— That’s probably why they don’t address. Because majority of players don’t try to maximize their potential.

Understand, I think Zerk is best, and I only use Zerk. I’m just saying until the majority of people actually start using it, the devs probably don’t care.

There are so many potential ways of dealing with the condition cap that it’s just sad they haven’t pulled the trigger on any of them.

1. When an intensity condition is pushed off the 25 stack limit have it apply full damage right then before going away. Group those as a single damage spike to limit network traffic. For non-damaging stacked conditions give it a standard damage evaluation.
2. For duration stacking conditions have multiples of a minute become intensity conditions.
3. Remove the condition cap and group all condition damage by other players as a single damage spike for network traffic.
4. Change all multiples of the same condition from the same source to a single stronger condition. So a former 3 bleed skill would be a 3 times stronger single bleed. Multiple consecutive conditions would also increase the effectiveness of the original condition, prorated for how many ticks it has already fired.
5. Lump all condition damage of a given type into a single undifferentiated chunk.

Any of these would be better than saying that certain builds are next to useless when there is more than one in PvE.

Berserk gear = high risk
Berserk gear = faster completion time (i.e. higher rewards per unit time compared to other gears, except perhaps assassin)

Good player skills = low risk
Good player knowledge = faster completion time

Berserk gear + good player = high rewards + low risk = ultimate profit?
Berserk gear + bad player = high rewards + high risk = ultimate fail in pugs, guaranteed.

Last year didn’t they say it was because the 25 stack cap was hardcoded so it’s hard to change?

I am almost sure it is number 1. They know it is a problem, don’t know how to fix it (or it will take a lot of time) and hoping it goes away.

I hope it is not 3, because if they are ok with it currently. They should be decisive and tell their player-base that it is ok.

Harper.4173:

Do you even play full zerker?
“I hate something so much Anet should nerf it into the ground to the point in which it’s not even worth having, that’ll teach those zerkers”.

Where did that come from? That’s not what I meant at all.
I definitely did not opine to nerf zerker gear. My point was that zerker gear should be near the edge of the bell curve in the risk/reward spectrum. In other words, a smaller portion of the player base should select full zerker gear because they are skilled enough to compesate for the drawbacks (squishiness). What I’m seeing though is that a majority of players see it as the go to gear for anything PvE – it falls pretty much at the peak of the bell curve for usage. Of course this is based on observation only and on in game and forum chatter. I may be way off and it’s only a vocal minority who claim zerker or nothing. Not having access to true usage stats it is merely a guess.

Orion Templar.4589:

Harper.4173:

Do you even play full zerker?
“I hate something so much Anet should nerf it into the ground to the point in which it’s not even worth having, that’ll teach those zerkers”.

Where did that come from? That’s not what I meant at all.
I definitely did not opine to nerf zerker gear. My point was that zerker gear should be near the edge of the bell curve in the risk/reward spectrum. In other words, a smaller portion of the player base should select full zerker gear because they are skilled enough to compesate for the drawbacks (squishiness). What I’m seeing though is that a majority of players see it as the go to gear for anything PvE – it falls pretty much at the peak of the bell curve for usage. Of course this is based on observation only and on in game and forum chatter. I may be way off and it’s only a vocal minority who claim zerker or nothing. Not having access to true usage stats it is merely a guess.

Most pub dungeoners don’t run zerker gear. It is clearly evident which guardians aren’t as well as warriors. Its sad to see cleric guardians running around in dungeons. They give us such a bad name

Eurhetemec.9052:

This describes the problem but does not answer or excuse it, nor does it really address the tiny condition cap.

It’s a problem in your eyes. Clearly, designers had different opinion when they were designing it.

Condition cap will never go away without better server infrastructure. Only thing I imagine they could do would be to allow burning and poison stack while decreasing application potency and simultaneously increase damage of bleeds. In other words, less stacks but more powerful.

Either 1 or 3. I’ve brought the berserker issue up tons of times and have never received a single response from Anet.

In answer to the OP’s question, it has to be answer 1 or 2.
A-Net has acknowledged condition stacking in an issue on these forums:

John Peters in October (2012): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
John Peters in February (2013): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

But it has been a year since this was first acknowledged and in my frustration I am leaning towards answer number 1… they do not know how to fix it and they are hoping it goes away.

Ulari

Eurhetemec.9052:

It seems me like, in many ways, the most pressing issue for this game, mechanically, is the fact that there is basically only one “right” way to gear (and thus few to spec/trait, as well) for PvE. This is caused by two factors – firstly that zerker gear compounds effectiveness in a way no other gear does (including defensive/survival gear), because of the triple-threat of Power, Precision and Critical Damage, and secondly, the low limits to how well condition damage can work in PvE (discussed at length elsewhere).

Given the ArenaNet team are at least somewhat vocal, and frequently discuss their plans and intentions, and problems they perceive with the game, what do we think is going on here. The possibilities that occur to me are:

1) They know it’s a problem but have zero idea about solving it, and are hoping it somehow goes away.

2) They know it’s a problem, and have a plan, but don’t want to tip their hand for fear of economic and other effects.

3) They don’t think it’s a problem, and are happy for zerker gear and power builds to basically be “the only way to go”.

4) They don’t know that it’s even an thing.

If they have ever said anything, and I’ve missed it, please let me know. I hope the answer is 2, but I’m just not sure what I believe given the total lack of comment.

OP, they are NOT ignoring it. Its kinda locked at the moment “as is” due to technical limitations. They have stated so a few months ago very clearly, and no I do not have a link since it was x months ago, if source is an issue for you or anyone, please google it yourselves.

Basically, they were underestimating how much money they would make of off this game and how popular it would get, so they designed overall structure to be very economical. That put severe limitations on hardware and platforms use.

Have you been to Tequatl v2.0 when it was implemented ? Do you remember how laggy it was ? Better yet do you WvW ? Have you been to a 3-way 300+ people SMC battle yet which lasts 1-2 hours ?

Just think of 300+ people spamming conditions everywhere, each single one ticking, each single one has to be tracked and calculated by the server. Each player doing different damage per tick due to their condition damage stat, different durations due to + duration and – duration stats, different cleansing, etc.

The current hardware is unable to keep good track of this and calculate everything on the fly.

I am not defending them, just being objective and realistic, a fix for this sort of situation will take at best many many months, if not a year+.

As for condition damage in small content such kitten man dungeon runs, this requires complete rework of the content and mainly its AI. The AI design of boss encounters here is much harder due to lack of the trinity. This is unfortunately 100% A-nets design flaw, but again there would need to be major reworks of everything from ground up which would take the teams years to accomplish. Another words, they would need to make a whole new game from the ground up. It would be easier and more time/cost effective then working this out.

They are fully aware of all this, unfortunately there is not much they can say because there are no quick fixes for this situation.

This situation will be improved as future content will be balanced for player teams in ascended gear and may be able to handle things better.

try using a full zerker team in a fotm 50….

Ulari.9547:

In answer to the OP’s question, it has to be answer 1 or 2.
A-Net has acknowledged condition stacking in an issue on these forums:

---

John Peters in October (2012): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
John Peters in February (2013): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

---

But it has been a year since this was first acknowledged and in my frustration I am leaning towards answer number 1… they do not know how to fix it and they are hoping it goes away.

Ulari

This is a good example of what people are talking about in the Chris Whiteside post. We always get “we are looking into it”, and a year later no answer.

Berserker “issue” is not going to change unless ANet releases content that is truly designed for organized groups.

Berserker itself is not the problem, it probably has too high crit damage numbers (specially with ascended trinkets) but it’s not the only damage boost “elite” groups make use of. Those groups also cap might and vulnerability stacks and get a lot of raw %damage increase from runes, traits and sigils (like night/slayer combos).

If content will be designed for organized groups, things like massive might/vulnerability stacks, optimal sigils and damage oriented builds (maybe not optimized, but clearly oriented) should be expected. Then, if a bossfight is designed to last 3 minutes on average, a fully damage optimized group is hardly going to finish it in less than a minute (and I’m probably being generous).
The current zeker issue is caused by a lot of PUGs don’t stacking boons and running weird things like full PVT with dolyak runes and sigils of blood so, if you want enemies to last enough against optimized damage groups (so they have time to do something more than explode after failing their first attacks cause a blind/aegis/whatever, which is what happens in most cases now), then every single silver mob could easily feel like fighting a champion for many pick up groups, which is just ridiculous.

The problem is that, even if ANet will release this kind of organized team oriented content, we would still be reading complaints every day, just for different reasons.

Orion Templar.4589:

Harper.4173:

Do you even play full zerker?
“I hate something so much Anet should nerf it into the ground to the point in which it’s not even worth having, that’ll teach those zerkers”.

Where did that come from? That’s not what I meant at all.
I definitely did not opine to nerf zerker gear. My point was that zerker gear should be near the edge of the bell curve in the risk/reward spectrum. In other words, a smaller portion of the player base should select full zerker gear because they are skilled enough to compesate for the drawbacks (squishiness). What I’m seeing though is that a majority of players see it as the go to gear for anything PvE – it falls pretty much at the peak of the bell curve for usage. Of course this is based on observation only and on in game and forum chatter. I may be way off and it’s only a vocal minority who claim zerker or nothing. Not having access to true usage stats it is merely a guess.

Try this – each time you run a dungeon ask people if they’re full zerker or not. It’ll surprize you how little full zerkers you have out there.

For zerker: Anet needs to create bosses that have more than 1 shot mechanics. If you get 1 shotted anyway, there’s no reason to bring any defensive stats. Just look at WvW. Zerker stats are not dominant — and that’s because gameplay is much more varied.

For conditions: Conditions should be changed to fire-and-forget. In other words, condi duration and damage per tick calculations for conditions should only be calculated when the condition is applied — as opposed to every single second the condition is active. That way there would be far fewer calculations and data retrievals almost certainly removing the need for the 25 stack limit.

The only negative: For the zerker issue: the thought of having to grind for more Ascended weapons with different stats makes me sick.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

try using a full zerker team in a fotm 50….

We always run Fractals 48 with full zerker teams. Not to mention, people that got to lvl80 mostly did so running full zerker teams. I don’t see the point you’re making other than showing off your own incompetence.

Lord Kuru.3685:

For zerker: Anet needs to create bosses that have more than 1 shot mechanics. If you get 1 shotted anyway, there’s no reason to bring any defensive stats. Just look at WvW. Zerker stats are not dominant — and that’s because gameplay is much more varied.

For conditions: Conditions should be changed to fire-and-forget. In other words, damage and duration calculations for conditions should only be calculated when the condition is applied — as opposed to every single second the condition is active. That way there would be far fewer calculations and data retrievals almost certainly removing the need for the 25 stack limit.

The only negative: For the zerker issue: the thought of having to grind for more Ascended weapons with different stats makes me sick.

The condition fix you propose is nonsensical.
Conditions are designed to do damage ( or give an effect) over time.
If they deal their damage when they’re applied then :
1)What’s the point in having them? they’re just normal hits.
2)What happens to condition removal? It no longer factors in? Because 1 stack of bleed will deal all its damage when it is applied, so having condition removal is now rendered useless.
3)What happens with condition effects ( see poison) ?

That’s just not going to work.

Harper.4173:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For zerker: Anet needs to create bosses that have more than 1 shot mechanics. If you get 1 shotted anyway, there’s no reason to bring any defensive stats. Just look at WvW. Zerker stats are not dominant — and that’s because gameplay is much more varied.

For conditions: Conditions should be changed to fire-and-forget. In other words, damage and duration calculations for conditions should only be calculated when the condition is applied — as opposed to every single second the condition is active. That way there would be far fewer calculations and data retrievals almost certainly removing the need for the 25 stack limit.

The only negative: For the zerker issue: the thought of having to grind for more Ascended weapons with different stats makes me sick.

The condition fix you propose is nonsensical.
Conditions are designed to do damage ( or give an effect) over time.
If they deal their damage when they’re applied then :
1)What’s the point in having them? they’re just normal hits.
2)What happens to condition removal? It no longer factors in? Because 1 stack of bleed will deal all its damage when it is applied, so having condition removal is now rendered useless.
3)What happens with condition effects ( see poison) ?

That’s just not going to work.

You misunderstand (perhaps I wasn’t clear enough). What I meant was that damage per tick should be calculated only at the time the condition is applied and is never recalculated again (hence “fire and forget”) — as opposed to what we have now, where it’s recalculated at least every second.

I’ll edit my post to make it more clear.

Vargamonth.2047:

Berserker “issue” is not going to change unless ANet releases content that is truly designed for organized groups.

Berserker itself is not the problem, it probably has too high crit damage numbers (specially with ascended trinkets) but it’s not the only damage boost “elite” groups make use of. Those groups also cap might and vulnerability stacks and get a lot of raw %damage increase from runes, traits and sigils (like night/slayer combos).

If content will be designed for organized groups, things like massive might/vulnerability stacks, optimal sigils and damage oriented builds (maybe not optimized, but clearly oriented) should be expected. Then, if a bossfight is designed to last 3 minutes on average, a fully damage optimized group is hardly going to finish it in less than a minute (and I’m probably being generous).
The current zeker issue is caused by a lot of PUGs don’t stacking boons and running weird things like full PVT with dolyak runes and sigils of blood so, if you want enemies to last enough against optimized damage groups (so they have time to do something more than explode after failing their first attacks cause a blind/aegis/whatever, which is what happens in most cases now), then every single silver mob could easily feel like fighting a champion for many pick up groups, which is just ridiculous.

The problem is that, even if ANet will release this kind of organized team oriented content, we would still be reading complaints every day, just for different reasons.

Spot on, people that want to “fix” the non-existent issue will have completely different problem if they actually do it. Bosses don’t die 5x times faster for speedrunners because of zerkers alone.

Lord Kuru.3685:

For zerker: Anet needs to create bosses that have more than 1 shot mechanics. If you get 1 shotted anyway, there’s no reason to bring any defensive stats. Just look at WvW. Zerker stats are not dominant — and that’s because gameplay is much more varied.

There are only a handful dungeon bosses with 1 shot mechanics. People claiming everyone one shots you are simply using hyperboles. Only very high level fractals (above 50), few dungeon bosses with specific one shot mechanics (Risen Crusher in Arah for instance) and upscaled world bosses which is not the problem of the bosses themselves but the scaling mechanism. It should give bosses tools to handle zergs instead of making them bigger meat bags.

For conditions: Conditions should be changed to fire-and-forget. In other words, condi duration and damage per tick calculations for conditions should only be calculated when the condition is applied — as opposed to every single second the condition is active. That way there would be far fewer calculations and data retrievals almost certainly removing the need for the 25 stack limit.

This is one of the good idea because, frankly, I don’t understand why getting might stack should somehow increase the damage of bleed you have already applied. Though, that would probably mean a lot of programming work to do and I think easier and faster to implement would be to increase the damage of bleeds while decreasing the application potency. In other words, less but stronger stacks.

style.6173:

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

As someone who runs full zerker on some characters, I disagree. Zerker builds are only slightly more risky than non-Zerker ones, for two reasons:

1) Most really serious damage in GW2 must be avoided, cannot be mitigated. So it is effectively the same for all builds.

2) Most “steady” damage is best mitigated by killing the enemy inflicting it. The best way to do that is zerker gear.

So absolutely no, compared to other builds it is not high-risk, high-reward. It is moderate risk, highest possible reward. A full Soldier build, for example, is still moderate risk, not low-risk, in any PvE where being downed/killed is actually a possibility, because it kills so much more slowly (except objects/some world bosses), and only moderate reward.

In PvP I agree it’s extremely high risk, but the whole issue here is how different PvE and PvP are, and it is not anywhere near as high risk in PvE. Some posters who consistently defend the current zerker situation actually point this out as a major plus for zerker (colesy, for example).

As for getting rid of it, well, that’s not what this thread is intended to be about. What I am interested in is why ArenaNet have said nothing. If it is intended, I would appreciate them saying so, and will act accordingly. If it is not intended, well, I hope they have a good plan – they are going to need it.

Tongku.5326:

OP, they are NOT ignoring it. Its kinda locked at the moment “as is” due to technical limitations. They have stated so a few months ago very clearly, and no I do not have a link since it was x months ago, if source is an issue for you or anyone, please google it yourselves.

Googling it I find nothing on zerker and little on conditions, and last time they said anything was February. I didn’t say they were ignoring it. I said they were silent. Given they’ve just talked about “collaborative development”, I think it’s fair to ask about this.

style.6173:

Because zerker builds are high risk, high reward. That’s how it should be. They do not need any changes.

No they’re not, they would be if you couldn’t food/trait/sigil up to where you can have a ridiculous amount of dodges. The skill from dodging in PvP comes from timing and management, in PvE because of predictable and even cyclical AI attack patterns it’s just management. Zerker is just the build where you get the highest reward for taking advantage of (yet another) broken system clearly not designed with PvE in mind.

I think if they remove zerker gear from the game they’ll lose more than 20% of their playerbase, and 40% will flame the forums, and the other 40% will say that dungeons are too hard and take too much and OMGNERFPLSANET and the game will eventually die, the only solution, like many suggested, is to make other stats more effective or required.

I personally like the idea that some bosses may have power/toughness swapped! This way, on at least said boss in a dungeon, those that build more safely can feel powerful