Guild Wars 2

I am sure it has been asked before and I can also see the results of that, but I am still curious as to WHY GW2 doesn’t have any in-game build management tools. Forum search is not working, so I can’t search for other similar threads.

I am especially interested in ways of changing your build with one key press or at least faster than now.

So … what is the official reasoning for GW2 not having build management tools? There must be a reason why ANet is refusing to make one, and I would appreciate if anyone can tell me what that is?

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

I would love to have at least two saved builds for each aspect of the game, but would that promote require build/gear shift between fights? Put like a 2 min cooldown between switching builds, maybe less, maybe more.

No official statement about it.
I remember reading a dev saying that they want to add such tool but it is harder than it looks, I won’t be able to find the post because it was LONG time ago and as you noticed, the forum search doesn’t work.
But yeah, we had that in GW1 (not change in 1 click but change build was extremely easy from a list you could save) and many players would love to have it in GW2.

Great QoL feature but i see a major drawback. More meta. People will store meta1, meta2 and so on, then will complain the content is too easy. And PvP balance will be a nightmare.

This will likely become a higher priority once raids are released, as people might want/need to use different builds for different bosses.

djsarcher.9263:

This will likely become a higher priority once raids are released, as people might want/need to use different builds for different bosses.

according to what I read, you will likely be in combat for the duration of the raid, making build swapping impossible. they mentioned that weapon swapping can change your role in a raid very easily. I worry that we won’t be able to even swap out utility skills during this challenging content.

Build Templates would be a great thing to implement, but each mode of the game needs to behave differently.
PvE: swap build anytime you are out of combat. (should also apply to raids)
WvW: swap build anytime you are in your home safe area.
PvP: swap build in the lobby only, not during matches (ranked or unranked). Treat hot-join server just like PvE.

This would allow you to change builds when appropriate for the content. We can swap utilities skills fairly easily, so we should have a way to swap out traits just as easily. Certain builds benefit from other armor and weapon stat combos, so this should be a part of it too.

The only drawback I see, in PvE and WvW, is inventory space. For each new build template you have that uses a different set of armor/trinkets, etc you need to carry around the full set with you. Maybe making build templates access the bank would work.

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

It would be great for anything that has multiple parts. For example, in Teq when I am on my ele I can switch attunements to what is best on the zerg attack phases (water so I can do some damage while also helping to heal the zerg) and what to use in defense stages (fire! my major concern there is damaging hordes). What I do not have time to change are things like go in my inventory and swap out my staff for d/d.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

Honestly… I feel like part of the benefit of the new specializations system is it seems to lend itself to build templates better than the old system did. So I sort of view it as a progression. They already knew it was a very popular request from sPvPers and now with Raids coming it’ll likely be more popular among PvEers as well.

Also the thing to remember is, 3rd party websites aren’t dealing directly with the GW2 engine and code, just because they have managed to do it doesn’t mean it isn’t a difficult thing to get done in game.

Arlee.7038:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

Honestly… I feel like part of the benefit of the new specializations system is it seems to lend itself to build templates better than the old system did. So I sort of view it as a progression. They already knew it was a very popular request from sPvPers and now with Raids coming it’ll likely be more popular among PvEers as well.

Also the thing to remember is, 3rd party websites aren’t dealing directly with the GW2 engine and code, just because they have managed to do it doesn’t mean it isn’t a difficult thing to get done in game.

I’m sure you’re right that specializations make saving builds easier.

However, I have to disagree with you about saving builds in-game being more difficult than 3rd party sites — there’s nothing different about displaying the build through an in-game browser vs an external one (and GW2 already has the code built-in for display). What might be difficult is being able to apply the build to your character, rather than just showing it (so you can manually apply it).

But if that’s hard to do, I have to question why ANet made the design decision not to build in this functionality from the start — it’s a feature of nearly every other game of similar kind (including GW1).

tl;dr I get that ANet has had other things they are working on. I just have never understood why this particular, popular tool hasn’t seemed to be a priority for them.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Arlee.7038:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

Honestly… I feel like part of the benefit of the new specializations system is it seems to lend itself to build templates better than the old system did. So I sort of view it as a progression. They already knew it was a very popular request from sPvPers and now with Raids coming it’ll likely be more popular among PvEers as well.

Also the thing to remember is, 3rd party websites aren’t dealing directly with the GW2 engine and code, just because they have managed to do it doesn’t mean it isn’t a difficult thing to get done in game.

I’m sure you’re right that specializations make saving builds easier.

However, I have to disagree with you about saving builds in-game being more difficult than 3rd party sites — there’s nothing different about displaying the build through an in-game browser vs an external one (and GW2 already has the code built-in for display). What might be difficult is being able to apply the build to your character, rather than just showing it (so you can manually apply it).

But if that’s hard to do, I have to question why ANet made the design decision not to build in this functionality from the start — it’s a feature of nearly every other game of similar kind (including GW1).

tl;dr I get that ANet has had other things they are working on. I just have never understood why this particular, popular tool hasn’t seemed to be a priority for them.

That’s the reason I made this thread. I am positive they know we would appreciate any kind of build management options, and I am positive they are more than capable of developing it as that’s really not terribly difficult thing to make. I was just curious what the reasons for not doing it are.
I haven’t had much experience with GW2’s devs and was wondering if they are any better than ZOS’s devs and do not hide or ignore simple questions. Questions that can easily be answered by “Because …”. A long shot, I know.

Are they afraid it might bring elitism into the game?
Are they having problems with such a tool conflicting with other game systems?
Are they unsure how exactly to design it? What to allow and what not.
Is this something they would like sell to players and are just waiting for the right moment?

Why do people always thinking that if something isn’t in game, they refused to add it??
If I give you apples, and you make caramel apples out if them, did you refuse to make apple pie??
Why should I be entitled to have apple pie, just cause I gave you apples??
You choose to make caramel apples instead of something I gave you. Unless we agreed that you could only have them to make apple pie, I have no reason to be entitled to anything at all, let alone apple pie.

Same here, they are not bound to anything to have such a tool and not having such a tool is not cause they refuse to have it. So far they have made different choices. These choices depend on a lot of factors, but most importantly, it is based on good old economics. That what is most profitable will go first.
So they either think that adding such a tool is not profitable, or it is really expensive to do both (or more likely, a bit of both).

If you would make yet another post (cause there are allready a lot) bout suggesting such a feature needs to be in game…I agree. with a small sidenote.
In GW2 I allready see more people with too lil knowledge bout their build compared to GW1. I think this has to do with the lack of build diversity.
I think having such a feature to load in ready made builds from the internet would only promote this. So I’m against that function. I have no point in having a way to store your own builds (preferable serverside, so you really have them accountbound and dont need to back them up). In essence it requires you to put in a build manually once and then save it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

Actually probably more like 2 years…but yeah, since an expansion was on the list…and that’s the focus, it’s how they prioritize.

mercury ranique.2170:

Why do people always thinking that if something isn’t in game, they refused to add it??
If I give you apples, and you make caramel apples out if them, did you refuse to make apple pie??
Why should I be entitled to have apple pie, just cause I gave you apples??
You choose to make caramel apples instead of something I gave you. Unless we agreed that you could only have them to make apple pie, I have no reason to be entitled to anything at all, let alone apple pie.

Same here, they are not bound to anything to have such a tool and not having such a tool is not cause they refuse to have it. So far they have made different choices. These choices depend on a lot of factors, but most importantly, it is based on good old economics. That what is most profitable will go first.
So they either think that adding such a tool is not profitable, or it is really expensive to do both (or more likely, a bit of both).

If you would make yet another post (cause there are allready a lot) bout suggesting such a feature needs to be in game…I agree. with a small sidenote.
In GW2 I allready see more people with too lil knowledge bout their build compared to GW1. I think this has to do with the lack of build diversity.
I think having such a feature to load in ready made builds from the internet would only promote this. So I’m against that function. I have no point in having a way to store your own builds (preferable serverside, so you really have them accountbound and dont need to back them up). In essence it requires you to put in a build manually once and then save it.

It’s not about every little thing that should be in the game but isn’t. I agree with you on that one. But we are talking about a build management tools in a game where builds are one of the most important features in character building.
Right now, many players change their gear and/or traits while they are running to next challenge or while they are waiting for something. And they do that with numerous clicks in inventory, character page for equipment and trait page. Why? Why so much work for something that is easily circumvented with simple tool?

You like analogies, so I will give you one. But, be warned, like all other analogies, it’s nothing more but just that.
Do you type phone number of the one you are calling or do you use it’s shortcut? You, of course are using shortcuts, like probably all other phone users. And the reason why is because it’s much easier. More convenient and user friendly.
And those are the reasons for build management tools. To make changing gear and traits easier. Because there is no apparent reason why this should be complicated or take long time.

I don’t agree with you on the effect of having such a tool. I think build management tools would have an opposite effect. Right now, I often do not change my build because I simply don’t want the hassle of clicking so many times and worrying if my inventory stayed the same as before, if I messed a trait or two because I had to hurry and all that while my screen is clogged with character and/or inventory modules. After all, that pesky Boss will not wait for me to finish changing my bow for sword.
I think such a tool will promote different builds because it will be easier to do so and many players will find that zerker gear is not necessarily the best for every situation. They will have the tool to try different builds without much hassle.
I agree it might promote using builds found on the internet. But where do you think zerkers found that ONE build they are using now? And zerkers are supposed to be majority of current player base.

I’m not talking bout wether or not it is convinient. I’m talking bout being entitled. You where rwrongly arguing your are entitled to have it in game. It is not. See it as feedback that, when making a point, entitlement is always wrong. The point you make is good and valid, ,but you are taking it down by a tone that is wrong. In fact with such a tone, you are actually making it less likely for Arenanet to listen and implement it.

I have a vague recollection of reading that there were “too many parts” eg: sigils/runes etc to make build templates a simple thing.

But:

I used to play EvE online, and you could save “ship templates..” Now, I know that its a wildly different game, built on a fully different engine but to my way of thinking EvE had more “parts” to keep track of: Up to 8 different guns/missile launchers . Up to 8 medium slots (our armor if you want) and up to 8 low slots. Each of these slots could have different things in.

I think they were saved locally to a text file or something.

Tbh, we’ll probably see build templates at some point, as someone mentioned: Due to raids coming in the devs have said that you would likely use traits etc that you never thought to use, and switching from “Raid to PvE to PvP to Wvw” etc etc would be a little bit tedious IMO..

mercury ranique.2170:

I’m not talking bout wether or not it is convinient. I’m talking bout being entitled. You where rwrongly arguing your are entitled to have it in game. It is not. See it as feedback that, when making a point, entitlement is always wrong. The point you make is good and valid, ,but you are taking it down by a tone that is wrong. In fact with such a tone, you are actually making it less likely for Arenanet to listen and implement it.

Hmm, I was actually trying to not be smart kitten and/or insulting, so I have to apologize if my tone was wrong. I do fail to see what about my posts was conceived as in wrong tone, but considering these things are highly personal, an apology is the only thing I can offer at this time.

I agree with you about entitlements in general, but I am entitled to execute the freedom of posting a question about a game that I payed for an am playing. I am, after all, their customer and as such do have the right for certain entitlements.
I am not demanding, threatening, insulting or being otherwise an kitten . I am simply inquiring about the reasons for something that is perceived as standard, and devs themselves said would like to do, still not in the game. Especially since it could be very helpful and positive for the game and it’s players.

Simple answer: they haven’t done a build system because their trait system has been changed multiple times over the years. Maybe now that we got the specialization system, which is probably the design they will keep for the future, they can go and create a build management system. It was rather impossible when the trait system was changing every so often.

As a new player I desperately want this. As someone else said id like two builds per game mode. Allow me to manage the builds from anywhere…basically I don’t want to have to travel to the mists to mess with my spvp build, then head to wvw to mess with my wvw build.

Also, I know its a small thing, and they sell inventory space so this probably wont happen…but to save equipped gear on each game mode. I know it doesn’t matter in spvp but maybe I want to look a certain way?

So what I want is a build tab. I click the icon of a globe for pve maps, two swords for spvp, the castle tower icon for wvw. I can drag and drop gear into the set up then mess with the traits and skills.

I just want to be able to do pve, then run a bit in wvw without having to juggle gear…as well as in wvw switch from a “zerg” setup to a small group “roam” without having to more or less afk at a bank ncp while I sort out my build and gear.

Is this so hard to do? With specializations….the need for this is going to be increased…especially the two builds per mode (so I can play more than one specialization easily)

I have a recollection, from long ago before the game came out, where they said there wouldn’t be build savers because they wanted people to feel an attachment to their build. It was a part of their character and so not to be easily changed. I especially remember it because I was playing Guild Wars 1 and had saved about every useful looking build that was pinged in chat and my main reaction when reading that was, Huh? Whut? (Unfortunately this post/blog is gone with the internet winds. I haven’t been able to locate it even though I’ve searched). This attitude would explain why the game wasn’t designed with build saving in mind and why it putting it in now is a lot of work.

symke.3105:

I am sure it has been asked before and I can also see the results of that, but I am still curious as to WHY GW2 doesn’t have any in-game build management tools. Forum search is not working, so I can’t search for other similar threads.

I am especially interested in ways of changing your build with one key press or at least faster than now.

So … what is the official reasoning for GW2 not having build management tools? There must be a reason why ANet is refusing to make one, and I would appreciate if anyone can tell me what that is?

I have asked it before, so I can save a UW build aside from my land build, but YES! I love this idea. I would even pay gems for it.

You see what happened was when they were getting ready to develop GW2 they made a list of GW1s best features. You know parties above 5 people, dyeable weapons, alliances, GvG, HoH, Build Templates, etc. Then they threw that list in the garbage did an evil laugh and made GW2.

symke.3105:

I think such a tool will promote different builds because it will be easier to do so and many players will find that zerker gear is not necessarily the best for every situation. They will have the tool to try different builds without much hassle.
I agree it might promote using builds found on the internet. But where do you think zerkers found that ONE build they are using now? And zerkers are supposed to be majority of current player base.

That is along the lines of what I was thinking. In addition to it making it easier to swap things (just another weapon outside of your secondary is annoying enough) it would also put an end to snobs saying things like “if you are not running zerker you are doing it wrong”. Give me tips like what traits are best for a profession to concentrate on, fine. Just do not insist my build be a clone of everyone else in tyria running that profession.

For example, when possible, I prefer to have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon that I swap between as appropriate. I am sure people would vocally suggest not to do that with all professions but it works for me.

maddoctor.2738:

Simple answer: they haven’t done a build system because their trait system has been changed multiple times over the years.

The system only changed fundamental once (from the old version to specializations). The only thing that changed about builds before was how you unlocked specific traits (it used to be automatic; that got changed to a gated system).

The skills & traits did change, as with any MMO that rebalances regularly.

maddoctor.2738:

It was rather impossible when the trait system was changing every so often.

Clearly it wasn’t impossible since several third party sites managed it.

Vayne.8563:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s on their list of things to do. They’d like to do it, but they’re doing other stuff right now.

It’s been on their list of things to do for three years. I’ve never been quite sure why it’s so hard to save builds, even if you can’t load them — after all, 3rd party websites have managed this for 2.9 years.

So, I agree that they must have other priorities. What I don’t understand is why this has never been one of them.

Actually probably more like 2 years…but yeah, since an expansion was on the list…and that’s the focus, it’s how they prioritize.

They talked about it during BETA, so by my count, it’s been over 3 years. And according to them, the expansion wasn’t yet on their radar.

But that is besides the point. My question has never been: why can’t ANet implement all the good ideas? (Of course they can’t.) I want to know why they haven’t prioritized this particular good idea.

I’m sure they have a substantive reason and they aren’t required to share it with us. I’m just saying it completely befuddles me; I can think of no philosophical or systemic reason why they haven’t even offered us the option to saving the equivalent of an in-game screenshot. It’s among the most basic of QoL features present in combat-heavy games, including ANet’s own GW1.

Loading the builds is more technically challenging (since most people consider GW2 builds to be closely linked with gear and there’s currently no provision made for automatically changing gear in PvE). But that only explains why we don’t have build+gear loading; it doesn’t explain why this hasn’t been a big enough priority that we’ve seen any in-game progress on this front.

tl;dr why hasn’t this been on ANet’s list of priorities? What has been their philosophy that saving builds hasn’t been important enough? Or what has been so technically challenging that they haven’t been able to divert enough resources? (And again, I don’t think we are entitled to an answer; I still think I get to ask the question.)

Yafoo.3092:

I have a vague recollection of reading that there were “too many parts” eg: sigils/runes etc to make build templates a simple thing.

But:

I used to play EvE online, and you could save “ship templates..” Now, I know that its a wildly different game, built on a fully different engine but to my way of thinking EvE had more “parts” to keep track of: Up to 8 different guns/missile launchers . Up to 8 medium slots (our armor if you want) and up to 8 low slots. Each of these slots could have different things in.

I think they were saved locally to a text file or something.

Tbh, we’ll probably see build templates at some point, as someone mentioned: Due to raids coming in the devs have said that you would likely use traits etc that you never thought to use, and switching from “Raid to PvE to PvP to Wvw” etc etc would be a little bit tedious IMO..

If they were all saved to a single file somewhere (local, server, format …. it does not really matter) the tool is much more straightforward (not exactly trivial, but you have a better idea of what to change). If you have a thousand routines all over it becomes a bit of a mess.

symke.3105:

That’s the reason I made this thread. I am positive they know we would appreciate any kind of build management options, and I am positive they are more than capable of developing it as that’s really not terribly difficult thing to make. I was just curious what the reasons for not doing it are.
I haven’t had much experience with GW2’s devs and was wondering if they are any better than ZOS’s devs and do not hide or ignore simple questions. Questions that can easily be answered by “Because …”. A long shot, I know.

Are they afraid it might bring elitism into the game?
Are they having problems with such a tool conflicting with other game systems?
Are they unsure how exactly to design it? What to allow and what not.
Is this something they would like sell to players and are just waiting for the right moment?

Oh well on that topic I did talk to Colin Johanson about Templets at Pax East and he said it was something he knew we wanted and he indicated they want to add them in as well, but they just had too many things on their plate to put focus there (remember this was back before the spec changes were announced).

None of the other devs have given any indication they don’t want to do templates, so I don’t think there is anything to that thought. I’ll be looking for templates sometime after HoT drops when they start doing Features Patches again.

I saw many posts about this and no reply, also I can’t find the old one where someone from Anet repled that it was a work in progress.
So… Will we have a build saving system soon? With the expansion maybe?

I made similar thread few days ago. It might help you in some way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-there-is-no-build-management-tools/first#post5473247

It seems there is no official comment on this, which could mean it is still long way from GW2 having anything similar.

Thanks!
But actually there was a post on the forum where a Dev replied " We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy." (Source Dulfy http://dulfy.net/2014/06/05/gw2-developers-are-looking-into-build-templates/)
It was many month ago and I remember there were other replies from the same dev in it. They seem really to be looking into it.
It’s weird that they didn’t say anything at all in such a long time..

I’ve been redirected here so I’ll post the same:
Actually there was a post on the forums where a Dev replied " We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy." (Source Dulfy http://dulfy.net/2014/06/05/gw2-developers-are-looking-into-build-templates/)
It was many months ago and I remember there were other replies from the same dev in it. They seem really to be looking into it.
It’s weird that they didn’t say anything at all in such a long time..

+1

Tired of having to visit dodgy third party websites for builds and trying to figure out which bit of Javascript is needed for functionality and which scripts are just for third party trackers / advertisers / malware.