Guild Wars 2

I can’t believe you necro’d a 5 month old thread.

Julie Yann.5379:

I can’t believe you necro’d a 5 month old thread.

You beat me to it.

Poor horse. It has been beaten enough, don’t you think?

5 months isnt enough to get an official response on where the Devs stand, unless I miss it?

Silence IS an official response .

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

I don’t care if people have a personal DPS meter, just dont allow a player to see another player’s DPS meter.

I thought like before, but it would be nice to have a meter where you can see what everyone is doing this way you can kick the sub-par players from the group. If you can’t perform, get out. If you want all sorts of wacky builds, weapons and playstyles because “it’s more fun” then fine, go do solo stuff – don’t drag a group down.

I would imagine many, not all but many, of the people who are against meters are below average players. Why should a group have to contend with an unskilled player who can’t produce?

This is exactly why players shouldn’t be able to see other players’ dps. This type of attitude. If you want to play with the most efficient group possible, then play with people you know that have that mindset.

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

I don’t care if people have a personal DPS meter, just dont allow a player to see another player’s DPS meter.

I thought like before, but it would be nice to have a meter where you can see what everyone is doing this way you can kick the sub-par players from the group. If you can’t perform, get out. If you want all sorts of wacky builds, weapons and playstyles because “it’s more fun” then fine, go do solo stuff – don’t drag a group down.

I would imagine many, not all but many, of the people who are against meters are below average players. Why should a group have to contend with an unskilled player who can’t produce?

This is exactly why players shouldn’t be able to see other players’ dps. This type of attitude. If you want to play with the most efficient group possible, then play with people you know that have that mindset.

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

I don’t care if people have a personal DPS meter, just dont allow a player to see another player’s DPS meter.

I thought like before, but it would be nice to have a meter where you can see what everyone is doing this way you can kick the sub-par players from the group. If you can’t perform, get out. If you want all sorts of wacky builds, weapons and playstyles because “it’s more fun” then fine, go do solo stuff – don’t drag a group down.

I would imagine many, not all but many, of the people who are against meters are below average players. Why should a group have to contend with an unskilled player who can’t produce?

This is exactly why players shouldn’t be able to see other players’ dps. This type of attitude. If you want to play with the most efficient group possible, then play with people you know that have that mindset.

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

I agree with OP.
I see nothing wrong with Arena giving us such meter in the purpose of self evaluation, expose of such information shall be subjected to each players willingness to share with others.

Anet won’t do it and good for them. It promotes the kind of nonsense we see so often in other games.

There’s always going to be an elitist portion of the playerbase, but games are much better for everyone else if they don’t cater to the elitist minority.

It perpetuates a community of people who are ultra competitive, which in a PVe environment isn’t helpful to the majority of the playerbase.

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

Vayne.8563:

Anet won’t do it and good for them. It promotes the kind of nonsense we see so often in other games.

There’s always going to be an elitist portion of the playerbase, but games are much better for everyone else if they don’t cater to the elitist minority.

It perpetuates a community of people who are ultra competitive, which in a PVe environment isn’t helpful to the majority of the playerbase.

Yes, this is why I believe in a concurrent majority! John C. Calhoun even applies to video games some 160 years after his death, go figure.

In other words, when standing back and looking at the big picture, majorities are usually dense – that’s why they are a majority… it’s rare to be good, but people who are good (read: gifted) shouldn’t be at the whim of the brainless masses.

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Anet won’t do it and good for them. It promotes the kind of nonsense we see so often in other games.

There’s always going to be an elitist portion of the playerbase, but games are much better for everyone else if they don’t cater to the elitist minority.

It perpetuates a community of people who are ultra competitive, which in a PVe environment isn’t helpful to the majority of the playerbase.

Yes, this is why I believe in a concurrent majority! John C. Calhoun even applies to video games some 160 years after his death, go figure.

In other words, when standing back and looking at the big picture, majorities are usually dense – that’s why they are a majority… it’s rare to be good, but people who are good (read: gifted) shouldn’t be at the whim of the brainless masses.

Except that some of us brainless masses have reasonably high IQs and STILL don’t want a DPS meter. In fact, being intelligent doesn’t necessary equate to being competitive. They’re two different things.

There are some people who are competitive by nature, and there are some people who aren’t. Now, if you put in a feature in the game that will be used by competitive people to make the lives of non-competitive people, the majority, less enjoyable…why would Anet do that.

Oh then there are people who are just sheep. They’re not really competitive at all, but they think it’s cool to be competitive, and when you give those people a DPS meter, they simply use it to abuse other people, who aren’t as “good” as they are, even if they themselves aren’t elite.

Sorry but there’s no reason in the world for Anet to cater to a minority of the playerbase at the expense of the larger player base. Maybe I could see it if it truly didn’t affect the rest of us…but it does.

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry, you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

It’s easy to think your at peak performance when you’re comparing non other than to yourself. You should also present your math, just out of curiosity. The difference in good and bad run is more than just “extra minute.” A pug Arah p2 would take 1hr while a speedrun would take 30min (averages).

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Vayne.8563:

Except that some of us brainless masses have reasonably high IQs and STILL don’t want a DPS meter. In fact, being intelligent doesn’t necessary equate to being competitive. They’re two different things.

There are some people who are competitive by nature, and there are some people who aren’t. Now, if you put in a feature in the game that will be used by competitive people to make the lives of non-competitive people, the majority, less enjoyable…why would Anet do that.

Oh then there are people who are just sheep. They’re not really competitive at all, but they think it’s cool to be competitive, and when you give those people a DPS meter, they simply use it to abuse other people, who aren’t as “good” as they are, even if they themselves aren’t elite.

Sorry but there’s no reason in the world for Anet to cater to a minority of the playerbase at the expense of the larger player base. Maybe I could see it if it truly didn’t affect the rest of us…but it does.

“Except that some of us brainless masses have reasonably high IQs and STILL don’t want a DPS meter. In fact, being intelligent doesn’t necessary equate to being competitive. They’re two different things. "

IQ means nothing more than you’re good at taking IQ tests. I know inept morons with 140+ IQs — let’s not go down that rabbit hole… well, unless you wanna (because I will). Oh, and of course being intelligent does not necessarily equate to being competitive, sports prove this. You’re making a moot point.

“There are some people who are competitive by nature, and there are some people who aren’t. Now, if you put in a feature in the game that will be used by competitive people to make the lives of non-competitive people, the majority, less enjoyable…why would Anet do that.”

Those non-competitive people can be in their own non-competitive group/guild or whatever, and the competitive people can be in theirs. If they don’t want to use the meters then don’t use them – in games with meters there are many people who couldn’t care less, and they do fine playing with others on their level instead of getting carried by adept players. Besides, it goes beyond being competitive – it has more to do with not wanting to carry people. Why would Anet wanna do that? I guess you have a good point. It’s sad who gaming companies have to cater to nowadays. Protect their little feelings because they can’t produce, I understand….

“Oh then there are people who are just sheep. They’re not really competitive at all, but they think it’s cool to be competitive, and when you give those people a DPS meter, they simply use it to abuse other people, who aren’t as “good” as they are, even if they themselves aren’t elite."

Great! The system works! Just like I said earlier – I don’t care if someone says they are good (because most will) or how knowledgeable they claim to be, only the numbers matter. If someone is like “oh, I’m pro, I’m pro” and the numbers say otherwisw they can get kicked just the same. In other words, screw what someone claims, I care about what they do.

In the end games are by their very nature competitive. Even the people you refer to as “the rest of us” are competitive which is why they don’t want meters in the first place. They don’t want to be outdone. If someone TRULY wasn’t competitive they wouldn’t be playing a video game such as this, I assure you. As but one example, I’d wager a good portion of people against meters love PvP….*

Yenn.9185:

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

It’s easy to think your at peak performance when you’re comparing non other than to yourself. You should also present your math, just out of curiosity. The difference in good and bad run is more than just “extra minute.” A pug Arah p2 would take 1hr while a speedrun would take 30min (averages).

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

You won’t be comparing to just yourself, per se. You’d be comparing it to what’s expected for your character. If, for example, you have gear, stats and weapons XYZ and use spreadsheets, you should have a rough idea of the numbers you should be pumping out. I want to know if I can squeeze out an extra 2%DPS and meters help me to make the adjustments necessary to do things like that.

Playing solo is also an opportunity to tweak your numbers (which should be available to you), so that when you get in a group you can perform well.

@Sarabande

The addition of a DPS meter will change the behavior of players. It’s not just the elite that will use it, but people who aren’t elite, but want to look elite. And they’re they REAL problem. And there are probably more of them than there are actual elite players.

I don’t care that elite players want to play together. Keeps them from grouping with me.

What I do care about is the message the DPS meter sends to the rest of the playerbase that isn’t leet. It affects us.

And since we’re the majority, anything that affects us should be taken into account.

Yenn.9185:

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

It’s easy to think your at peak performance when you’re comparing non other than to yourself. You should also present your math, just out of curiosity. The difference in good and bad run is more than just “extra minute.” A pug Arah p2 would take 1hr while a speedrun would take 30min (averages).

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Seriously? You need to compare yourself in order to be sure you are performing well. Doesn’t sound like you are very confident in your abilities. As for the math part, it’s not hard to figure out the DPS potential of your build once you know your build. The basic formula I use is (Accumulated damage per rotation)/(seconds to complete rotation+seconds lost to evade or heal)=DPS. If you play flawlessly (and I am sure you do) then that is the average DPS you will achieve.

I can understand someone wanting to use such a tool to improve their build/play. In that case it should only be seen by that said person and he/she can use it to improve themselves.

Vayne.8563:

@Sarabande

The addition of a DPS meter will change the behavior of players. It’s not just the elite that will use it, but people who aren’t elite, but want to look elite. And they’re they REAL problem. And there are probably more of them than there are actual elite players.

I don’t care that elite players want to play together. Keeps them from grouping with me.

What I do care about is the message the DPS meter sends to the rest of the playerbase that isn’t leet. It affects us.

And since we’re the majority, anything that affects us should be taken into account.

Great response, Vayne (no sarcasm).

“It’s not just the elite that will use it, but people who aren’t elite, but want to look elite.”

Let them try! To players in the know, they just look like fools. That’s what I love about meters; in addition to smoking out straight up bad players as well as lazy players who just want to get carried (e.g. people who don’t even wanna read about their profession), meters work to out posing phonies as well.

“And there are probably more of them [fake elites] than there are actual elite players.”

Oh, there is no question, there are for 100% sure more phony elites and wannabes than actual good players. But, like you said, since they are the majority, they have to be protected and carried.

“What I do care about is the message the DPS meter sends to the rest of the playerbase that isn’t leet. It affects us.”

It sends the message get better

Now, Vayne, you’re talking like this, but you have been posting on these boards for a long time and you’re very knowledgeable about this game. I would be willing to bet you would tear the damage meters up.

Julie Yann.5379:

Yenn.9185:

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

It’s easy to think your at peak performance when you’re comparing non other than to yourself. You should also present your math, just out of curiosity. The difference in good and bad run is more than just “extra minute.” A pug Arah p2 would take 1hr while a speedrun would take 30min (averages).

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Seriously? You need to compare yourself in order to be sure you are performing well. Doesn’t sound like you are very confident in your abilities. As for the math part, it’s not hard to figure out the DPS potential of your build once you know your build. The basic formula I use is (Accumulated damage per rotation)/(seconds to complete rotation+seconds lost to evade or heal)=DPS. If you play flawlessly (and I am sure you do) then that is the average DPS you will achieve.

You misunderstood. I’m saying it’s easy to think you’re doing good when you’re really not, and thus the need for a meter to properly evaluate.

A number on a spreadsheet can only get you so far, and a potential is just that a potential. As you are probably aware, you don’t usually reach your potential due to variations in skill and circumstances. Just look at mesmer, it has the highest potential DPS but rarely achieve those in the field because it’s hard to keep 3 phantasms up.

Julie Yann.5379:

Yenn.9185:

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

Shockwave.1230:

Sarabande.8260:

Just because they have the mindset doesn’t mean they can produce the numbers. I Don’t care about mindsets, how knowledgeable someone is or claims to be, or how good they think they are – numbers is all that matters. What’s the point of playing with people of “that mindset” if I can’t see the proof?

I wanna see a numerical breakdown so leechers and underperformers can be kicked. Those folks can go do bad DPS soloing hearts or something, not slowing down groups.

Fortunately ANet will never do this.

Hopefully they also adjust their game so that DPS isn’t the best way to play PvE.

I agree, they should make such an adjustment. DPS is only fun for short amounts of time before it gets boring as watching paint dry. We should also have meters that shows other stats like condition removal and the amount of CC going out.

Julie Yann.5379:

Maybe you should be the one to play alone. That way you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about someone in your group slowing you down.

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive. Then again, Anet protects the ego of bad players even by hiding their name in PvP, so like Shockwave, Anet will never do it. It’s unfortunate that some lousy performing players are allowed to hide amongst and reap the benefits that should be reserved for skilled players. Kinda like real life, really.

Players not absolutely confident in their ability make up the bulk of people who are against meters. I would bet money.

I don’t want a DPS meter, cause I don’t need a DPS meter. I know that I am playing a peak performance. I can see the numbers fly up every time I hit. It’s not hard to do the math. I could not care less if there are 1 or 2 people lacking in DPS as long as they don’t spend their time in a downed state and keep having to rez them. I don’t care if I end up carrying them through the dungeon (it’s not like they are hard) even if it takes a few extra minutes.

The whole “play this way or you are a bad player and we kick!” is what is wrong with MMOs and I will not support anything tools that would give more power to these people. If you don’t want to play with scrubs then join a guild, organize group with L33T people like you and don’t play with pugs.

Don’t worry you don’t have to worry about me joining your party cause I have already put you on my block list.

It’s easy to think your at peak performance when you’re comparing non other than to yourself. You should also present your math, just out of curiosity. The difference in good and bad run is more than just “extra minute.” A pug Arah p2 would take 1hr while a speedrun would take 30min (averages).

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Seriously? You need to compare yourself in order to be sure you are performing well. Doesn’t sound like you are very confident in your abilities. As for the math part, it’s not hard to figure out the DPS potential of your build once you know your build. The basic formula I use is (Accumulated damage per rotation)/(seconds to complete rotation+seconds lost to evade or heal)=DPS. If you play flawlessly (and I am sure you do) then that is the average DPS you will achieve.

I need need to be sure of those numbers and not work in averages with that archaic system you present. Besides, why go through all that when we can just have a meter? That’s like denying yourself a speedometer and counting one Mississippi, two Mississippi between phone poles and saying “alright, I’m doing about 60 mph.” No, I want to know if I am doing 58 or 61 MPH.

I probably wouldn’t tear damage meters up…because I don’t care about how fast I got through content. In fact, I spend far more time watch and helping other people in dungeons than I do just focusing on the boss to maximize my DPS. I’m not only watching my health bar and conditions, I’m watching the party’s.

A lot of times I specifically run dungeons with newer players or lower level characters or people with no experience, and I show them the ropes…insofar as I can. But I never say to one of them, you’re not pulling your weight…because honestly, we clear the content anyway. I’m not too worried about whether I did 40% of the damage, or 60% or 20%.

When I first started out, I hated dying and I focused a lot more of toughness and vitality. As I got better I started replacing my armor with zerker stuff. Most of it is zerker now on my dungeon character, anyway.

But I don’t want a DPS meter, because I don’t require one. Let’s pretend I could do 20 more points of damage a second? So? 30? 50?

I’m just not that interested. Perhaps I would be when I find content I can’t beat.

Vayne.8563:

I probably wouldn’t tear damage meters up…because I don’t care about how fast I got through content. In fact, I spend far more time watch and helping other people in dungeons than I do just focusing on the boss to maximize my DPS. I’m not only watching my health bar and conditions, I’m watching the party’s.

A lot of times I specifically run dungeons with newer players or lower level characters or people with no experience, and I show them the ropes…insofar as I can. But I never say to one of them, you’re not pulling your weight…because honestly, we clear the content anyway. I’m not too worried about whether I did 40% of the damage, or 60% or 20%.

When I first started out, I hated dying and I focused a lot more of toughness and vitality. As I got better I started replacing my armor with zerker stuff. Most of it is zerker now on my dungeon character, anyway.

But I don’t want a DPS meter, because I don’t require one. Let’s pretend I could do 20 more points of damage a second? So? 30? 50?

I’m just not that interested. Perhaps I would be when I find content I can’t beat.

Vayne, I really do respect your position.

I guess that’s where we’re different. Even if I can win, I want to win faster.

Sarabande.8260:

I need need to be sure of those numbers and not work in averages with that archaic system you present. Besides, why go through all that when we can just have a meter? That’s like denying yourself a speedometer and counting one Mississippi, two Mississippi between phone poles and saying “alright, I’m doing about 60 mph.” No, I want to know if I am doing 58 or 61 MPH.

I was editing to my post while you were responding to it and added that I’d be fine with a meter as long at it is only visible to you so you can improve upon your gamneplay, I would even use it. The only reason I don’t want it visible to everyone is because of the negative culture it creates and all these @ holes will start abusing it.

Sorry if I have been a little rude in my previous posts but I have seen how some people get treated by these so called elite players and it is something that I will not stand for and I kind of take it to heart. Good on you if you are not one of those cause they are the reason we can’t have nice things.

Julie Yann.5379:

Sarabande.8260:

I need need to be sure of those numbers and not work in averages with that archaic system you present. Besides, why go through all that when we can just have a meter? That’s like denying yourself a speedometer and counting one Mississippi, two Mississippi between phone poles and saying “alright, I’m doing about 60 mph.” No, I want to know if I am doing 58 or 61 MPH.

I was editing to my post while you were responding to it and added that I’d be fine with a meter as long at it is only visible to you so you can improve upon your gamneplay, I would even use it. The only reason I don’t want it visible to everyone is because of the negative culture it creates and all these @ holes will start abusing it.

Sorry if I have been a little rude in my previous posts but I have seen how some people get treated by these so called elite players and it is something that I will not stand for and I kind of take it to heart. Good on you if you are not one of those cause they are the reason we can’t have nice things.

That’s a fair compromise, because a personal DPS meter will help people get better. Also, you weren’t rude, and if you were it wouldn’t bother me. Indeed, I am not one of those people who use meters to bash other players, I just use them to kick underperformers and leechers. I am no elitist, btw – just because I want a means of easily detecting people who are awful at playing a does not make me an elitist. If a group is failing a meter can go a long way in remedying the problem.

a damage meter would only exclude the lowest performing classes in dungeons.

it would be far worse then what we have now with warrior / guard groups.

it would also lead to massive nerf crys by low dps ppl

and it would kill this fragile gw2 community

It’s not really about the classes. We already saw that ranger, the community once thought to be at the bottom of dps, can match warriors DPS.

The discrimination against any particular classes is brought upon by bad players playing those class.

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Are you really arguing that number crunchers should own pugging? I have no problem with anyone excluding whoever they want, but why should the game implement a feature making it convenient for you to exclude them when there is no feature making it convenient for them to exclude you? The “casual” needs to determine who they’re willing to play with by trail and error, why shouldn’t the “elitist?”

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Are you really arguing that number crunchers should own pugging? I have no problem with anyone excluding whoever they want, but why should the game implement a feature making it convenient for you to exclude them when there is no feature making it convenient for them to exclude you? The “casual” needs to determine who they’re willing to play with by trail and error, why shouldn’t the “elitist?”

Never did I say anyone should own pugging. Everyone should be able to, both casual and elite. Elitist doesn’t wanna play with casuals because it slows them down(thru lack of skill/dps, whatever), and impedes them from achieving their goal which is a fast run.

I don’t know what you meant when you say casuals need to determine who they play with since most casuals are willing to run with anybody regardless of skill and experience. Maybe you’re confusing yourself with elitist and jerk a@@holes. The two can be a separate thing.
Edit: I’ve never seen a casual pug deny a skilled player who brings good dps.

Some people need tools to pimp their narcisistic self image (tautology?) while many players, the overwhelming majority in fact, of skill and ability quietly get about their business, while helping others improve…not by punishing their shortcomings.

Primming the chest feathers does not belong in this game especially where it can be used to disadvantage others.

It would be good, al long as it’s personal and no way shared with your party members.
It should definitely be an improvement tool for yourself, for testing various build and equipment, but NEVER used to catch underperformers and kick them from party.
To all the elitists: What if you were the underperformer? You would kick yourself?

^^ Yes, hell yeah. I would personally leave the party, and in fact I would not have joined the party in the first place (assuming they stated in their lfg post what they’re looking for). If the party ask to melee lupi and be a zerker and I can’t do such thing, I would not join them. If I legitimately fell short of their expectations, and they kick me, that’s fine with me as well. All of it has to be stated at the beginning of the run ofc.

This list should have only your name and others hided with xxxxxx and stats, if they dont wanna show, maybe a ‘privacy’ option ask u if u wanna hide or not your name in those stats so everyone is happy

Basically it’s like this:

I want a meter that shows you DPS
Gimme that info like Freedom of the Press

Ain’t got no time in my group for them fails
Use that damage meter to get some details

Like, “hey, man, it ain’t my fault that we wiped”
Your DPS is 30, son, that ain’t right

Kick you from the group, “have a nice day, bro”
You ain’t no Gladiator, you ain’t Russell Crowe

Cuz my DPS skills be leavin’ mobs headless like Anne Boleyn
Clearing out dungeons, call their next of kin

I’m so pro, I’m the reason the nerfed your class
Mow through a dungeon just like some grass

I love me some numbers, call me Stephen Hawking
Running content I say nothing, my meter does the talking

But if you fail, you gonna get the boot
You don’t pull your weight, then you gets no loot

stemare.2578:

It would be good, al long as it’s personal and no way shared with your party members.
It should definitely be an improvement tool for yourself, for testing various build and equipment, but NEVER used to catch underperformers and kick them from party.
To all the elitists: What if you were the underperformer? You would kick yourself?

Yeah, I would kick myself – then again I am no elitist. I’ve been there – I’ll admit here and now, I have been in groups and totally bombed and kindly excused myself. Also, just because one wants to actually, I dunno, fully contribute does not make them an elitist.

Meters should be used precisely to catch underperformers. Why should players who actually took the time to learn their class, to properly outfit it, and who strive to contribute to the group’s success have to carry these underperformers?

That sounds a lot like communism. Screw that.

Lian Olsam.9541:

This list should have only your name and others hided with xxxxxx and stats, if they dont wanna show, maybe a ‘privacy’ option ask u if u wanna hide or not your name in those stats so everyone is happy

This is exactly what I proposed in my earlier post. I think it’s a good balance between the two sides.

Yenn.9185:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Are you really arguing that number crunchers should own pugging? I have no problem with anyone excluding whoever they want, but why should the game implement a feature making it convenient for you to exclude them when there is no feature making it convenient for them to exclude you? The “casual” needs to determine who they’re willing to play with by trail and error, why shouldn’t the “elitist?”

Never did I say anyone should own pugging. Everyone should be able to, both casual and elite. Elitist doesn’t wanna play with casuals because it slows them down(thru lack of skill/dps, whatever), and impedes them from achieving their goal which is a fast run.

I don’t know what you meant when you say casuals need to determine who they play with since most casuals are willing to run with anybody regardless of skill and experience. Maybe you’re confusing yourself with elitist and jerk a@@holes. The two can be a separate thing.

Edit: I’ve never seen a casual pug deny a skilled player who brings good dps.

If a given player or group is willing to play with anyone, then the point would not apply to them, is it not so?

For what it’s worth, I have no problem with someone leaving a group that isn’t working out for them, perhaps with a brief, “Sorry, got to go.” I’ve done it myself. I do have a problem with people flaming and insulting others over their perceived sub-standard performance. I don’t want to see that crap even if I’m not the target. In other words, where’s the in-game jerk detector?

Why do you think you have the right to judge and adjudicate on other’s enjoyment regardless of their performance…if you don’t like it YOU leave the group…there all solved….your self image does not carry any weight except to you. get over it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yenn.9185:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

Are you really arguing that number crunchers should own pugging? I have no problem with anyone excluding whoever they want, but why should the game implement a feature making it convenient for you to exclude them when there is no feature making it convenient for them to exclude you? The “casual” needs to determine who they’re willing to play with by trail and error, why shouldn’t the “elitist?”

Never did I say anyone should own pugging. Everyone should be able to, both casual and elite. Elitist doesn’t wanna play with casuals because it slows them down(thru lack of skill/dps, whatever), and impedes them from achieving their goal which is a fast run.

I don’t know what you meant when you say casuals need to determine who they play with since most casuals are willing to run with anybody regardless of skill and experience. Maybe you’re confusing yourself with elitist and jerk a@@holes. The two can be a separate thing.

Edit: I’ve never seen a casual pug deny a skilled player who brings good dps.

If a given player or group is willing to play with anyone, then the point would not apply to them, is it not so?

For what it’s worth, I have no problem with someone leaving a group that isn’t working out for them, perhaps with a brief, “Sorry, got to go.” I’ve done it myself. I do have a problem with people flaming and insulting others over their perceived sub-standard performance. I don’t want to see that crap even if I’m not the target. In other words, where’s the in-game jerk detector?

Yes, the meter would mean nothing to those willing to play with anyone.

I think we are all in agreement that flamers and jerks should be banned from the game. With that said there are really nice elite players (the real ones). They are usually the ones who teach me tips and tricks.

Oldbugga.7029:

Why do you think you have the right to judge and adjudicate on other’s enjoyment regardless of their performance…if you don’t like it YOU leave the group…there all solved….your self image does not carry any weight except to you. get over it.

The underperformer should leave because, well, (s)he’s an underperformer. Now why would someone levy such judgement? Because MMOs are, by and large, a group activity and if a member of the group has such a disregard for the group as a whole, then they should get the boot — it’s not about ego, it’s about fairness. It’s unfair for someone to enter a group, get carried to gold and loot while “tabbed out” of the game. Please stop hiding behind the wall of “you’re an elitist” when the real reason is that it’s simply not fair for some bad player be carried to victory.

MMOs, even simplistic ones such as GW2, have a certain complexity about them. They usually require some amount of research on the part of the player, if someone has a total disregard for that; they don’t wear the proper gear or equip some weapons simply because they “look cool”, then they should go play some other game where the efficiency of a group is not subject to their lackluster playing.

Learn to play.

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

I probably wouldn’t tear damage meters up…because I don’t care about how fast I got through content. In fact, I spend far more time watch and helping other people in dungeons than I do just focusing on the boss to maximize my DPS. I’m not only watching my health bar and conditions, I’m watching the party’s.

A lot of times I specifically run dungeons with newer players or lower level characters or people with no experience, and I show them the ropes…insofar as I can. But I never say to one of them, you’re not pulling your weight…because honestly, we clear the content anyway. I’m not too worried about whether I did 40% of the damage, or 60% or 20%.

When I first started out, I hated dying and I focused a lot more of toughness and vitality. As I got better I started replacing my armor with zerker stuff. Most of it is zerker now on my dungeon character, anyway.

But I don’t want a DPS meter, because I don’t require one. Let’s pretend I could do 20 more points of damage a second? So? 30? 50?

I’m just not that interested. Perhaps I would be when I find content I can’t beat.

Vayne, I really do respect your position.

I guess that’s where we’re different. Even if I can win, I want to win faster.

I was a lot like you when I was younger. I’m no longer that competitive. I mean my entire life was competition in real life. Every industry I worked in was crazy competitive. So I learned on my down time to be a whole lot less competitive. When you have to compete and play hard to make a living, you tend to want to not compete in your down time.

I guess my competition is different. I’d like to be known as the most helpful guy, rather than the fastest.

Pretty sure I don’t need a DPS meter to do that. lol

You didn’t answer the question. Why do you think YOU have the right to judge other people’s enjoyment and spoil it….DPS is not a measure of enjoyment. It is an kitten measuring tool for those who need to ….well you know… Just because you have more DPS DOES NOT give you the right, any right at all, to pass any form of judgement on others in the group. Like I said, if you are unhappy with the performance of the group for whatever means then YOU leave it. DO NOT think you have any right to judge others and stop them from enjoying the game as they want to play it. A DPS tool is only another form of the “adolescent tape measure” and does not belong here.

DPS meter should be a plugin.
What we need is a functionnal combat log that really logs everything that happens in combat. Like dodges, dot damage, etc.
Then you can make a dps meter by logging all that info into a file (that’s the way it was done in everquest) or directly streaming it to the app (can be done too ^^).

Oldbugga.7029:

You didn’t answer the question. Why do you think YOU have the right to judge other people’s enjoyment and spoil it….DPS is not a measure of enjoyment. It is an kitten measuring tool for those who need to ….well you know… Just because you have more DPS DOES NOT give you the right, any right at all, to pass any form of judgement on others in the group. Like I said, if you are unhappy with the performance of the group for whatever means then YOU leave it. DO NOT think you have any right to judge others and stop them from enjoying the game as they want to play it. A DPS tool is only another form of the “adolescent tape measure” and does not belong here.

Just because you disagree doesn’t make you right. Some players are hardcore players and want to achieve the full potential of their characters. Why would you deny them the right to ? Just so you won’t get kicked from a hardcore guild where you have no place ?
Just find players with the same mindset as yours and play happily. I know i’d like to be able to compare builds / skills / traits in an effective way to have my character perform the best i can get it to perform. If you like slacking, that’s your choice.

@Fenrir
Definitely NOT to pass judgement on others to “kick em”. By all means for personal evaluation of your OWN performance…but do we really want another WoW syndrome…this is one of the things that killed the enjoyment of PUG play in that game….do we want it here, generically, for ALL group encounters?

Like I said…if you don’t like the group then YOU leave it….don’t try and justify a DPS meter on the plausibility of “elitising” (new word there) your group by culling the “weak”. How do you handle group support, healing ,CC and other non DPS activities…you will end up running with 5 warriors. DPS meters DO NOT measure performance……they measure damage and groups need much more than pure damage to succeed.

PS: I am not arguing against DPS meters as such…just the reasons so far put forward…which are mainly juvenile, elitist, judgemental and denying other players enjoyment and is based on a ficticious subset measurement that does NOT cover all roles in the game.

By the way refrain from the personal denegration like “slacking”…you have NO knowledge of my gameplay. Schoolyard tactics are for the schoolyard….not here.

Oldbugga.7029:

You didn’t answer the question. Why do you think YOU have the right to judge other people’s enjoyment and spoil it….DPS is not a measure of enjoyment. It is an kitten measuring tool for those who need to ….well you know… Just because you have more DPS DOES NOT give you the right, any right at all, to pass any form of judgement on others in the group. Like I said, if you are unhappy with the performance of the group for whatever means then YOU leave it. DO NOT think you have any right to judge others and stop them from enjoying the game as they want to play it. A DPS tool is only another form of the “adolescent tape measure” and does not belong here.

I answered your question in the first sentence, and even went on to reiterate for ya. Maybe “YOU” (rofl, why do you always write that word in caps?) should re-read what I wrote.

@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick

Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.

See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.

MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.

If you don’t like the group then you leave it. What is so hard about that. It is you who are displeased then you are the issue…not them…you leave. simple. Don’t make up some half kitten d excuse to try and impose some self anointed superiority on their enjoyment…just move on to your equals. You are the issue, you have the problem…not them.

Oldbugga.7029:

@Fenrir

By the way refrain from the personal denegration like “slacking”…you have NO knowledge of my gameplay. Schoolyard tactics are for the schoolyard….not here.

He wasn’t even attacking you personally, clearly he means “you” in the collective sense. No wonder you are so adamantly against meters. If someone said one thing to you, even if someone nice like Vayne tried to help you, you would probably blow a gasket and type like this: http://i.imgur.com/u3lWw.gif

Sarabande.8260:

@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick

Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.

See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.

MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.

You talk about fair. What is fair. Different people have different levels of skill and talent. I’m never going to have the reflexes I had when I was 20. It’s not going to happen. That was more than 30 years ago. Is that fair? Maybe everyone should exclude me because I can’t possibly keep up with kids who can just bang away for hours and do it all perfectly.

Some people have physical or even mental handicaps. They didn’t ask for them. Is that fair?

I get it. Everyone who can’t be good at a game because of a genetic deficiency, or a disability, or even something as simple as insomnia should be barred from all groups because someone says carrying them is unfair.

They have to live their entire lives with something unfair and maybe, just maybe they escape into a game world to get away from the disability. Who am I to tell them that they’re not pulling their weight in a game.

This is a hobby for a lot of people. We have or have had careers. This isn’t serious business. It’s a form of recreation.

By your reckoning, only the best of the best should be allowed to play, because it’s unfair that you have to carry them.

Well, to be honest, I’ve carried more than my share of people who couldn’t do it through content they never thought they could get through…and it makes me proud that I did.

No one asks to be less talented than another person.