Guild Wars 2

Vitus Dance.4509:

Ltomato.8649:

We’re upset because we would not have bought or played this game had it been like this on release.

If that were really the case…surely ‘we’ wouldn’t have known any difference?

I would know something is wrong by following the in game compass and walking from the Charr starter area into Wayferer Foothills and then to this magical place called Frostgorge Sound, at level 3.

People need to face reality for a change and realize this patch has brought more ills than anything, especially for starting new characters.

Selene.9415:

Vayne.8563:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

I’m curious, do you think you’ll still be having fun doing it your second or third time around, when you know what to expect?

Sure because I spent an hour or two at low levels, but I just leveled to 55 and got a nice rare piece that I didn’t have.

Most of these complaints seem to be about the skill unlocks which are done fairly early. The entire leveling experience has been redone.

I prefer the stories this way, since I can do them in blocks with no leveling interruptions.

Vitus Dance.4509:

Ltomato.8649:

We’re upset because we would not have bought or played this game had it been like this on release.

If that were really the case…surely ‘we’ wouldn’t have known any difference?

While it is possible I might have been suckered into buying it, I certainly wouldn’t have played it for long, or spent additional money on the Gem Shop. I would have realized it was awful and not fun.

Vayne.8563:

Selene.9415:

Vayne.8563:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

I’m curious, do you think you’ll still be having fun doing it your second or third time around, when you know what to expect?

Sure because I spent an hour or two at low levels, but I just leveled to 55 and got a nice rare piece that I didn’t have.

Most of these complaints seem to be about the skill unlocks which are done fairly early. The entire leveling experience has been redone.

I prefer the stories this way, since I can do them in blocks with no leveling interruptions.

Really? Because I only feel restricted. Sure, playing through it to see how the rewards and story have changed is exciting, but I find it incredibly annoying not having access to the previous skills and weapons as soon as I start. Maybe that’s because I’m already on my 2nd char for each profession. I really can’t see myself doing another one though. I’ll probably just wait another year for a birthday scroll/make myself pvp to get tomes of knowledge.

Also, doing Wurm or SB and seeing that big flashing arrow over my heal skill on my level 80 (when my heal is on cd) is impeccably annoying.

Edit: Disclaimer: I’m okay with them keeping the system for new players (even though I think a tutorial would be better), but it really needs to be optional for those that don’t need it. I don’t have enough b-day presents for all of my alts and I can’t stand sPvP, so what other options are there?

This is disgusting at best… I thought the new trait system would kill anyone from making new alts, and now timegated/level gated restrictions are totally going to prevent any meaningful progression. In a month or two we will start seeing a lot more players who have no idea what to do at the dungeons, thus lowering quality of players overall.

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

What levelling experience? Cant talk for new players, but they destroyed the fun i had in levelling alts. Completely. Not only did they ignore veterans, they destroyed one of their methods of fun.

Yargesh.4965:

Look up resistance to change.

That doesn’t mean what you think it does. Resistance to change is a business concept and one of the reasons people are resistant to change include a change having a negative impact on them. That doesn’t make the people resistant to the change irrational or their reason for resisting change invalid. I

t can be a perfectly valid position that, for example, a change that forces someone to work 4 10-hour shifts rather than 5 8-hour shifts, even if beneficial on paper, is a change in their terms and conditions of employment that has a significant negative impact on their life. For example, a single mother that needs daycare services when none are available in the area that cover a 10-hour shift is negatively impacted by something others may embrace. Or, when a change saves the company money at the expense of the workers, for example making three people do the work of five people by laying two employees off and not replacing them.

If you’re trying to force a change on people, you want to use “afraid of change,” which is used in change management to stifle decent by attaching a stigma to opposing to the change, even for valid reasons. For example, saying “I understand that people are afraid of change, but…” or “I know there are a lot of changes going on and that can be scary…”

It makes people hesitant to speak up against a change because nobody wants to be seen as cowardly. And, it lets the initiator of the change frame the opposition’s argument as emotional rather than rational.

Blizzard also did this to WoW when Cataclysm came out (i’m guessing).
They removed hostile mobs, by making them yellow instead of red.
They also got rid of drowning for characters under 10.
They removed armor damage for players under 10.
They introduced quest markers on minimap & map.
Skills automatically unlocked, which was probably the best thing to come out of their “NPE”.
And many other things too.

It’s as if Anet took a step backwards though, and are using the traditional MMO skill locks, that are restricted by levels. It’s just the same as WoW and all the other clones now.

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

Now I’m curious. And not in a sarcastic way. =P

Would you mind expanding on your thoughts of why the new leveling ‘experience’ is a good thing? I just find it hamstrung and another deliberate drag on progression.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Yes, this.

It felt like a free world. Like, you know… a second life. An adventure, where your choices were all that mattered. You could do content above your level if you were good, and fail if you were not. You wandered around the world and enjoyed that “living world” with dynamic events and tons of stuff to explore.

Now you log in, press [F], hit 1, get a cookie for it and are directed by large arrows to the next press [F] and hit 1 on the map. You know, like those linear Crysis, Need for Speed and browser flash games.

Oh, exciting!.. not.

You realize the arrow is for people that are so new to GW2 they literally have no idea where to go. At no point do you have to go where the arrow tells you. Think of the arrow as a guide for where to go to continue your tutorial. If you have played the game before and know what to do, how about don’t follow the arrow?

Unless you are suggesting that you cannot progress from 1-15 without following that arrow…

Because I’m an altaholic.

what is the point of the level booster now if we can not use it on a alt do Anet hates us?

Draknar.5748:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Yes, this.

It felt like a free world. Like, you know… a second life. An adventure, where your choices were all that mattered. You could do content above your level if you were good, and fail if you were not. You wandered around the world and enjoyed that “living world” with dynamic events and tons of stuff to explore.

Now you log in, press [F], hit 1, get a cookie for it and are directed by large arrows to the next press [F] and hit 1 on the map. You know, like those linear Crysis, Need for Speed and browser flash games.

Oh, exciting!.. not.

You realize the arrow is for people that are so new to GW2 they literally have no idea where to go. At no point do you have to go where the arrow tells you. Think of the arrow as a guide for where to go to continue your tutorial. If you have played the game before and know what to do, how about don’t follow the arrow?

Unless you are suggesting that you cannot progress from 1-15 without following that arrow…

umm the arrow doesn’t work as it should as seen here

5.05 onward

I’ll give you one example why Im upset (aside from living story being the centerpiece of the game now).

Dungeons
Dungeon instances no longer close when the original creator leaves the party.

Yes, finally some dungeon love(sarcasm). Good change, but really? Thats all youre going to do for dungeons after 2 years?

Ok ok, lets be open minded and keep reading.

Fractals of the Mists
Cliffside:
Fixed an issue that prevented the Cultist Hammer from respawning correctly when players fell off the platforms around the chest and arms of the colossus.

More dungeon/fractal love. Wow. But this is a good bug fix. Only…this was a bug from day 1 when fractals released..how long ago? almost 2 years now?

I keep seeing the phrase “because people don’t like change” and I think I’ll expand on that statement. What holds true for me in this statement is this; It bother’s me that changes to the core functions in the game that I purchased are made without any real effort on their part to ask the community what they like. I know it’s their game and they can do what they want to it but when the core function of how the game can be played is changed a more concerted effort should be made to get the pulse of the player base. Nothing drives people away faster than being ignored and destroying what they enjoyed about the game. I know people reference the manifesto and in a nutshell that’s the crux, you told us things that were used to sell it to us in the first place then come in and start ripping it away without so much as a “how do you do”. That in a nutshell is why you get the response you do from many veteran players.

I also find it slightly hypocritical that I keep seeing “the forums only represent a small portion of the player base” but this is where they choose to communicate for feedback in things like the CDIs, so which is it, is there value to our opinions on these forums or only when they think it placates the player base? I’ve asked as many have, why can’t you poll players in the game to get a true measure of temperature to certain ideas before putting development time into things? this is a far better way of studying what your customers want than any other format, why do you think polling exists in the first place?

This whole thing was driven from the way they felt the China based game needed to be for it’s successful launch there and now we have to live with it. I think a real effort to reconnect with the wants of the players at this time is urgently needed and I hope things aren’t too far gone.

nexxe.7081:

Blizzard also did this to WoW when Cataclysm came out (i’m guessing).
They removed hostile mobs, by making them yellow instead of red.
They also got rid of drowning for characters under 10.
They removed armor damage for players under 10.
They introduced quest markers on minimap & map.
Skills automatically unlocked, which was probably the best thing to come out of their “NPE”.
And many other things too.

It’s as if Anet took a step backwards though, and are using the traditional MMO skill locks, that are restricted by levels. It’s just the same as WoW and all the other clones now.

That’s about when I quit that game. Then recently I tried the Panda expansion because it was on sale for like 10 bucks, and holy kitten, what a trainwreck that game has become. I did a max level dungeon as a freshly levelled character and didn’t realize until the end that it was Heroic. I was falling asleep part way through how ridiculously easy it was.

I think that most of the new levelling Experience may habe been a good Idea. (Don`t have a lot of time to argue, though)

a) Levelling feels more meaningful, there is a bigger sense of accomplishment.
b) Important and interesting Features(/Abilities/Traits) are highlightet and you have time to get used to them. They ARE an accomplishment . Many new pleyers, who would have ignored them otherwise, will at least try them out.

Unlocking features is not “just” time gating.

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

If your= really played through 10 personal stories and the boring kitten living story 10x as well, then your opinion doesn’t matter cause you are one strange cookie and pretty much don’t qualify as a normal human being. I think I would rather watch paint dry….

I think, if Anet reverted the weapon skill unlocking back to kills, and the utilities/elite back to their previous unlock levels, that I could live with most everything else.

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

People don’t like regressive change, changes by their very nature should progressive building on what we already know and have established works. The leveling changes are anything but that, it’s like establishing a child while no pro BMX rider can ride a bike pretty well and then all of a sudden making them slap on training wheels and every piece of padding imaginable to ride their bike. It’s just annoying, and frustrating AND all together unnecessary.

Also ArenaNet should kitten well know by now (since this almost never works in any game) that you have to be extremely careful using gating in MMO’s since many MANY players generally hate it. Sure a little here and there for specific applications is understandable but this much is way too much. I mean who in their right mind honestly thought that new players would be so overwhelmed that they could only handling using 1-2 skills to mindlessly spam on mobs for the first several levels? Really? They can’t possibly think even brand new players are that dense, they just can’t.

Anyway, yea… ArenaNet if you’re reading this you NEED a PTR or more time internally test things because the flaws in many of your recent game changes are all to apparent to anyone trying them in short order. So please let us help you get things right in the future so we can avoid all this chaos and dissonance.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I keep seeing the phrase “because people don’t like change” and I think I’ll expand on that statement. What holds true for me in this statement is this; It bother’s me that changes to the core functions in the game that I purchased are made without any real effort on their part to ask the community what they like. I know it’s their game and they can do what they want to it but when the core function of how the game can be played is changed a more concerted effort should be made to get the pulse of the player base. Nothing drives people away faster than being ignored and destroying what they enjoyed about the game. I know people reference the manifesto and in a nutshell that’s the crux, you told us things that were used to sell it to us in the first place then come in and start ripping it away without so much as a “how do you do”. That in a nutshell is why you get the response you do from many veteran players.

I also find it slightly hypocritical that I keep seeing “the forums only represent a small portion of the player base” but this is where they choose to communicate for feedback in things like the CDIs, so which is it, is there value to our opinions on these forums or only when they think it placates the player base? I’ve asked as many have, why can’t you poll players in the game to get a true measure of temperature to certain ideas before putting development time into things? this is a far better way of studying what your customers want than any other format, why do you think polling exists in the first place?

This whole thing was driven from the way they felt the China based game needed to be for it’s successful launch there and now we have to live with it. I think a real effort to reconnect with the wants of the players at this time is urgently needed and I hope things aren’t too far gone.

Sorry, i dont want any more “community enhanncements” in the game as that brought us glorious trait changes AND these changes AND ascended gear….no thanks.

Ill be just fine if ANet just ignores “community”

Hybrid.7059:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I approve of these changes as we will eventually have an end to the brain dead and “press 1 to get loot”/“only wear Zerker” players we see plaguing the game. I have enough lv 20 scrolls to bypass most of the tutorial stuff now added to the game for three brand new characters.

I just hope it gets even better for new players and the game teaches them how to dodge properly use conditions/condition removal/healing skills and combo finishers and fields.

As I will be willing to teach them myself if they weren’t so clueless and can’t listen. I’m sure many vets feel the same way I do too.

If it was possible to do this, many other games would have already found a solution, and I feel like it almost certainly wouldn’t resemble anything like what I see in this feature pack.

Many games found a solution. It was the 8-bit 16-bit era of gaming the golden age of games that had the tutorial masked into the game play.

Games like Mega Man X series and Super Metroid had this and it wasn’t forced or flawed or even too blatantly obvious. You learned as you explored with environmental cues and everything. I’m not sure any modern game has done that to date.

There is a guy on You Tube called egoraptor that explains this in his discussions about games from this era and he is right about it most times.

GW 2 could use a more environmental cue based way to learn things.

Right now what we have I believe is the best we can do for now.

MikaHR.1978, not sure what you’re getting at, I can tell you for certainty nobody asked my opinion on any of these changes. If they poll ideas in game then everyone has a chance to have their opinion heard, not just the test groups or CDI participants.

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

And based off that understanding, Arena Nets intention to make such fundamental changes is not only ridiculous but essentially a provocation of its veteran player base.

Mind you, it is not like anyone could hold their hand on their heart and say the changes were actually really any good.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

MikaHR.1978, not sure what you’re getting at, I can tell you for certainty nobody asked my opinion on any of these changes. If they poll ideas in game then everyone has a chance to have their opinion heard, not just the test groups or CDI participants.

Changes introduced in last 2 feature packs are dicrect feedback from community. So go figure, now somehow community dont want changes that it demanded before.

So youu see, when you say “community” nobody actually knows what youre talking about, since “community” wanted completely opposite things (the things you got).

So yeah, no more “community stuff”, mkay?

Rauderi.8706:

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

Now I’m curious. And not in a sarcastic way. =P

Would you mind expanding on your thoughts of why the new leveling ‘experience’ is a good thing? I just find it hamstrung and another deliberate drag on progression.

How far have you gotten in the new level system?

The old, original system, you’d level, level, level, suddenly look down and think, oh I leveled, check your traits and find you have 3 trait points. That’s not really good. Leveling meant very little, actually back then. You got stat increases, but if you didn’t check them and write them down you wouldn’t have even known by how much. You didn’t get rewarded for leveling. It was just a big blank slate…which works for some people, but probably not most people.

People come from other games where leveling is rewarding. They come here for a free weekend and get pretty much nothing. No real direction, no real reward to level.

Leveling rewards have been improved. Things are explained better. There are new things that teach you what to do in game. But for me, each time I level I get something. Doesn’t matter that I could buy the thing I get, I have the money…but normally when I level alts I don’t.

One day, just a few weeks ago, I was leveling an alt. I was fighting and not doing real well. Realized she was level 25 but most of her gear was starter gear. Not much had dropped for her that she could use. So she was not only unleveled but waaaay undergeared. I could have bought stuff, but I don’t like doing that. For one thing, all that stuff is overpriced to get someone five levels. And a new player, it would be much harder for them to gear up. It would feel like a big chunk of change for them.

Now I get drops for level, I get rewarded for leveling. Personal story rewards are better.

Also, I used to hate how disjointed the personal story was. I hated being underleveled for it, when I wanted to continue it. I wanted to just go and do the next part. Now it doesn’t actually start until you can do the whole story arc. My character doesn’t have to stop and start and stop and start.

I don’t really love the arrow that shows you where to go, but I’m glad you can switch it off or change it’s settings.

cesmode.4257:

I’ll give you one example why Im upset (aside from living story being the centerpiece of the game now).

Dungeons
Dungeon instances no longer close when the original creator leaves the party.

Yes, finally some dungeon love(sarcasm). Good change, but really? Thats all youre going to do for dungeons after 2 years?

Ok ok, lets be open minded and keep reading.

Fractals of the Mists
Cliffside:
Fixed an issue that prevented the Cultist Hammer from respawning correctly when players fell off the platforms around the chest and arms of the colossus.

More dungeon/fractal love. Wow. But this is a good bug fix. Only…this was a bug from day 1 when fractals released..how long ago? almost 2 years now?

That fractal bug wasn’t around for a long time. I ran fractals almost daily for a year and never encountered it. It’s recently reared it’s ugly head again, probably the last patch and they fixed it this patch.

I’m a veteran and I’m upset that a few months after having some of my favorite clothing taken away, and months before that having the running animation I enjoyed taken away, I’m now being told that the money I spent on mini-pets isn’t of the same value as the money people spend on weapon skins, armor skins, back pack skins and outfit skins, with respect to creating identity for our characters and expressing that to the rest of the virtual world.

But, I’ll also support your anger and sign any petition you would like me to sign.

MikaHR.1978:

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Well, for one thing, you have to grind skill points more, because they removed the skill points you were getting naturally each level for leveling up.

Level 20 was 16 before.

MikaHR.1978, these changes had nothing to do with the community, they are based on the design used in China one, that nobody I know requested and therefore not NA/EU community requested.

Cool! Lots of perspectives from people who like the changes in the thread!

However- let me ask you- is the entire change in the player experience necessary then?

Things that were liked- streamlined leveling, leveling rewards, story rewards-

These I agree are really cool! BUT is it also necessary to remove so much of the game at early levels along with these things? Is it really fun to run up to a cool blue triangle, try to use it and be told to come back at an indeterminate level? To run into gather nodes before you can gather them and have no indication of what they are? To lose the great sense of progress (that could have just been tweaked) that can from unlocking weapon skills through use?

There’s a lot of really odd choices made in this patch, and it’s worrisome.

There are elements that I like and dislike about the changes…

There are some really cool additions, like being given a piece of level specific armour when you reach certain levels. It gives a minor feeling of progression… although I feel that they are trying to distract you from how convolutedly stupid the levelling is.

‘Statistical progression has been cut into chunks’. They are trying to force a feeling of progression, but instead they’re just making the process more convoluted than it has to be. I understand that incremental progression is obviously… a slow grind? But at least you’re growing with every level! It feels natural.

The thing that I hated most about the new trait system was that you had a large number of dead levels. Doing the same thing with stats is a bit… weird. I’ve yet to play around fully with the system, but there’s just such a fake, plastic feeling about levelling. It’s hard to explain what I mean! But it no longer feels like a natural, fun process. Indeed, it felt dire from the introduction of the new trait system.

Anyway, with regards to the new player learning experience, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous. How dumb do they think people are? They may as well take away weapons for the first 15 levels, and get players acquainted with talking to NPCs to gain experience points. With the developers’ trains of thought, we should be grateful that they didn’t make the initial levelling experience ‘on rails’, where your character is automatically controlled by the game for the first 20 levels.

That, and really silly things like pushing like the Elementalist earth attunement unlock to level 22. It’s ‘fake’ progression. It’s like
“Look how cool this game is! You gain access to a super powerful class skill!!”

When really, it’s something you should have had 15 levels ago. I don’t buy that they’re trying to improve the new player experience at all. Everything they have introduced in this regard is patronising and a really cheap attempt to convince people that levelling is fun. When really, you’re unlocking things that really should have been there to begin with.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

MikaHR.1978, these changes had nothing to do with the community, they are based on the design used in China one, that nobody I know requested and therefore not NA/EU community requested.

Actually, ascended, trait and leveling changes are done because direct feedback from community.

community whined that you are “done” with your caharcter by level 30 and theres nothng to level 80.
community whined that game has no sense of direction, has poor explanation of, well, everything and is generally “too hard” and very noob unfriendly
community whined that just reading book at level 20/40/60 sucks and they want to “hunt for traits like GW1”
community whined theres no gear to grind after you get you exotic set.

Yes, “community” doesnt really know what it wants (as if that was ever in question anyway) but ANet chose to listen to commnunity. So community should be extatic that they listen to it, why arent you all dancing with joy?

Vitus Dance.4509:

We’re upset because we would not have bought or played this game had it been like this on release.

This is the dumbest thing ive read today.

I posted this on a similar thread already but i think ill say this here as well; THE LEVELING CHANGES ARE FOR NEW PLAYERS. This means that if you have been playing the game since around the time the game was released like myself, you should not even begin to critique the change. Why? because you do not have the same perspective someone who starts playing today does. New players may actually end up liking the system, they don’t know what the other was like so they have nothing to compare it to.

Vets complained that they get to level 80 then they get bored. Anet responds by adding Fractals, PvP tournaments and rewards, WvW tournaments and living story stuff that vets would gain from the most . Naturally new players won’t complain because they are new players, but vets still do, about the same thing no less. Anet responds by slowing down the leveling process so new players appreciate the end game more because vets clearly don’t. SOMEHOW its the vets complaining. I think i can ask a simple question here, wtf?

You know, it makes me laugh a bit. People always compare this game to Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 had more this, Guild Wars 1 had less that.

You got skills a whole lot slower in Guild Wars 1 than you do here. You may have gotten a few at once, but you got them slower.

I played this game for an hour today, I had four skills unlocked on any weapon I picked up.

I just find it amusing.

Ragion.2831:

THE LEVELING CHANGES ARE FOR NEW PLAYERS

So how come if I want to make an alt my only options are craft grinding and tomes?

people think the compass is a railroad, when its just pointing you to the nearest thing. “There’s a heart over here!” ignore it and suddenly it’ll change to “there’s an unexplored area over here!” ignore it again and it’ll change to “there’s a point of interest over here!”. People are taking it the wrong way.

Vayne.8563:

You know, it makes me laugh a bit. People always compare this game to Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 had more this, Guild Wars 1 had less that.

You got skills a whole lot slower in Guild Wars 1 than you do here. You may have gotten a few at once, but you got them slower.

I played this game for an hour today, I had four skills unlocked on any weapon I picked up.

I just find it amusing.

playing gw1 since i never made it past the first campaign. Level 10, using 3 buttons and auto attack. Yep. A whole skill bar, and only THREE buttons.

Serophous.9085:

people think the compass is a railroad, when its just pointing you to the nearest thing. “There’s a heart over here!” ignore it and suddenly it’ll change to “there’s an unexplored area over here!” ignore it again and it’ll change to “there’s a point of interest over here!”. People are taking it the wrong way.

If you’re a new player, that compass is your only sense of direction in the open game. Unless you go to a different starting area immediately following tutorial, you pretty much NEED to follow the compass or you’ll get your face stuffed in because you do not have the tools to handle stronger enemies.

Ltomato.8649:

Serophous.9085:

people think the compass is a railroad, when its just pointing you to the nearest thing. “There’s a heart over here!” ignore it and suddenly it’ll change to “there’s an unexplored area over here!” ignore it again and it’ll change to “there’s a point of interest over here!”. People are taking it the wrong way.

If you’re a new player, that compass is your only sense of direction in the open game. Unless you go to a different starting area immediately following tutorial, you pretty much NEED to follow the compass or you’ll get your face stuffed in because you do not have the tools to handle stronger enemies.

I wish this game was like that, knowing that if you make a mistake, you may face certain death. The game feels very small, so many wp and the map split into zones. It would have been better to take out the zones and some wps then give us mounts. Leave the core idea of dynamism, keep a decent difficulty in PvE and then just keep adding content and balances.

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

Somewhat true, but for me, the saddest part is that now GW2’s leveling system is showing itself to be (drumroll…) every generic leveling system in any MMO ever (e.g. “just another WoW clone”).

So far, the only major difference I can think of is that you don’t actually need to pick up any quests, like in Generic MMO Leveling 101. Instead, you just follow the arrow and it does that step for you.

It’s the tragic loss of yet another unique and interesting game system because, “People don’t understand games.” It is the same kind of thing that happened with SWG. That game had an amazing system in its pre-CU form, but the fact was that it didn’t sell well enough.

WoW set the financial bar way too high for everybody.

The only parts I don’t like to the game are these now (regarding only what’s been done in feature packs):

1. Delays in utility skills while leveling
2. Cost of traits for new players and alts
3. Delays weapon skills pre-level 10

I really don’t understand the thought process behind this, I don’t. I know people need tutorials to get used to a game the first time but this just like Kit Refinement is extreme. There needs to be some kind of common sense filter from here on out that will catch over-the-top changes like these that make the game less fun and harder for players so that another Alt killer decision or another Kit Refinement “balance” choice never happens again.

Ltomato.8649:

Serophous.9085:

people think the compass is a railroad, when its just pointing you to the nearest thing. “There’s a heart over here!” ignore it and suddenly it’ll change to “there’s an unexplored area over here!” ignore it again and it’ll change to “there’s a point of interest over here!”. People are taking it the wrong way.

If you’re a new player, that compass is your only sense of direction in the open game. Unless you go to a different starting area immediately following tutorial, you pretty much NEED to follow the compass or you’ll get your face stuffed in because you do not have the tools to handle stronger enemies.

Lets take human starting area as an example. Pre patch, you come out level 2, and are told to talk to the guide as per your personal story marker. It would then tell you to head to the farm. Players would head there because “well, the tracker told me to” or “well, i went to the fort last time, lets see whats over here”. It was mostly the first one, just like the compass does now.

Now, lets say a new player thought “I dont want to go over there yet, I want to go back to the fort.” they head over there, go beyond to the centaurs, a level 2 facing level 6 mobs. They are going to get creamed. Yes, the compass will probably be telling them to go to the heart there now, but lets ask this: In all honestly, even with the NPE made easier, are we as vets going to treat these new people as idiots in that they can’t realize “Oh wow, that thing is level 6, it killed me really easily, I should go another way.” Or are we going to assume that they think “DERRR! I’M NEW! I’LL FOLLOW COMPASS ONLY! DERRR! WHY AM I DYING SO FAST? COMPASS LIED!”

Well, Anet thinks that new players can’t figure out downed state… so if we follow that assumption, then yes. New players can be assumed to blindly follow the compass.

Labjax.2465:

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

Somewhat true, but for me, the saddest part is that now GW2’s leveling system is showing itself to be (drumroll…) every generic leveling system in any MMO ever (e.g. “just another WoW clone”).

So far, the only major difference I can think of is that you don’t actually need to pick up any quests, like in Generic MMO Leveling 101. Instead, you just follow the arrow and it does that step for you.

It’s the tragic loss of yet another unique and interesting game system because, “People don’t understand games.” It is the same kind of thing that happened with SWG. That game had an amazing system in its pre-CU form, but the fact was that it didn’t sell well enough.

WoW set the financial bar way too high for everybody.

Just turn off the arrow and do what you want. I will after I’m done testing.

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

It is not a tutorial, just a lock down. The day Anet actually care about making tooltips with a better, cohesive, text in a way the players need to take their time to learn content, things will change.

Besides, those vets and any other player won’t learn absolutely nothing about their classes as long as they can and will level up almost entirely in EoTM by pressing 1 and F or even with experience scrolls.

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

and people hate bad change. If you change someone’s drink from coke to pepsi they may not like it. When you change it from coke to urine I can guarantee that they will be upset. Then telling them its good and they should enjoy it or that its what they asked for is baffling.

Ltomato.8649:

Well, Anet thinks that new players can’t figure out downed state… so if we follow that assumption, then yes. New players can be assumed to blindly follow the compass.

and when they come across something higher level then them, you assume they won’t learn their lesson and just keep attacking it? not try to go somewhere else?

Tell me, when someone’s gps tells them to make a left turn, and there is no left turn but a brick wall, do you think the majority will make that turn or think “This isn’t right, I should go somewhere else”

azyume.6321:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

It is not a tutorial, just a lock down. The day Anet actually care about making tooltips with a better, cohesive, text in a way the players need to take their time to learn content, things will change.

Besides, those vets and any other player won’t learn absolutely nothing about their classes as long as they can and will level up almost entirely in EoTM by pressing 1 and F or even experience scrolls.

It’s not a tutorial? So what do you call it when you level and something unlocks and you click on it and a giant white arrow goes and points to something and gives you instructions?

Vayne:

I agree that leveling had very little meaning for new players outside of a plume of light most of the time, and to that end giving actual meaningful rewards and alerts to changes upon leveling was a good move on their part.

gating my SKILLS to levels instead of letting me see myself learning them as i used and got familiar with a skill, and actually learning all of my weapon skills in this way was a poor choice. Gating simple things like level appropriate skill point acquisition was a poor choice. Gating things like crafting behind a level higher than the actual MAP SPOT that you could get to and see the crafting tables was a poor choice. Calling any of this a tutorial for new players and then explicitly teaching them a bad habit (dodging INTO a red circle and standing there) was a poor choice. Implementing a compass direction system that can and will direct new players to severely overpowered enemies was a poor choice. Gating the downed skills themselves behind levels without any way to learn them by looking over them was a poor choice.

This update had far more poor choices with regard to this leveling system than good ones.