Guild Wars 2

I would suggest the following solution:

Make Bloodstone Dust sellable at a special Karma vendor – for 5-10 Karma per piece. It is by far the most surplus of the ascended mats and accumulates too fast anyways.

Asko.4120:

Dear Anet,

I understand that the general consensus among players and developers was that Karma was too trivial, next-to-useless excluding Obsidian Shards and way too easy to get and turn into gold. This certainly warranted some changes, but why did you took away a lion’s share of the pot? There certainly was a middle ground between present and previous states:

- Daily now gives 600 karma instead of the 5 000 from a jug
- Monthly now gives 6 000 karma instead of 50 000 from the 10 jugs
- Dungeon and champion karma rewards gutted
- failed event karma gain removed.
The karma income numbers above from previous patch were the bare minimum: with karma modifiers that daily 5000 could almost double.

The increase in karma item’s content is highly insignificant as there are almost no sources left that even give karma consumables. The aspect of this whole matter that baffles me the most is that you combine this huge change with an increased need for karma in form of the obsidian shards being used for high level crafting. May I ask, what is your goal here?

Also another important point is that the legendary crafting is bottlenecked by karma income. One million karma is an enormous amount to spend and if a player earns 3k-5k karma per day without running braindead karma trains it will be a major point of frustration for all the active legendary crafters.

I beg you for a minute of your time to clarify the reasonings behind karma changes to the community.

Because Karma was absolutely worthless…

HiddenNick.7206:

Asko.4120:

Dear Anet,

I understand that the general consensus among players and developers was that Karma was too trivial, next-to-useless excluding Obsidian Shards and way too easy to get and turn into gold. This certainly warranted some changes, but why did you took away a lion’s share of the pot? There certainly was a middle ground between present and previous states:

- Daily now gives 600 karma instead of the 5 000 from a jug
- Monthly now gives 6 000 karma instead of 50 000 from the 10 jugs
- Dungeon and champion karma rewards gutted
- failed event karma gain removed.
The karma income numbers above from previous patch were the bare minimum: with karma modifiers that daily 5000 could almost double.

The increase in karma item’s content is highly insignificant as there are almost no sources left that even give karma consumables. The aspect of this whole matter that baffles me the most is that you combine this huge change with an increased need for karma in form of the obsidian shards being used for high level crafting. May I ask, what is your goal here?

Also another important point is that the legendary crafting is bottlenecked by karma income. One million karma is an enormous amount to spend and if a player earns 3k-5k karma per day without running braindead karma trains it will be a major point of frustration for all the active legendary crafters.

I beg you for a minute of your time to clarify the reasonings behind karma changes to the community.

Because Karma was absolutely worthless…

Did you even read what I typed? Nerfing something by 90+% is absolutely ridiculous, no matter what the subject is. I could argue that the nerf was over 95% because most people hoarded karma consumables and could get ~75% more karma from a consumable than the original value. This is arenanet killing a fly with an AA turret and Anet needs to address this.

- yes karma was pretty trivial, but you don’t solve the problem by just cutting the supply. Simply making consumables unaffected by modifiers would have affected the total karma income by lot. I’m also behind the failed event karma removal, as it incentivizes completing events. Daily reward changes were way over the top, same for dungeon reward cuts. People who only do party content are pretty screwed now.
- If karma-to-gold schenanigans with Orrian jewelry boxes was the problem then why not nerf the karma rewards within the boxes? though this problem could also have been remedied by simply making karma consumables unaffected by modifiers.
- legendaries take forever to farm now without mindless karma trains (which is glaringly against Anet’s design code). I can earn about 2000-4000 karma per day now including daily if I play for 6 hours. Gee that is enough for almost 2 obsidian shards, that a legendary requires ~500 of. I don’t think it is Anet’s intention to force legendary crafters to grind 250 hours for the shards only.
- while essentially cutting the supply of karma completely Anet even introduced a new karma sink in form of Obi shards being used for ascended crafting. This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Karma in its previous availability was a joke agreed, but Anet went to extreme measures. I’m waiting for a clarification on the changes and possible fixes.

Instead of nerfing karma income they should have added more attractive rewards to karma so players don’t hoard millions of karma without having anything useful to spend it on.

Asko.4120:

I’m also behind the failed event karma removal, as it incentivizes completing events.

Actually, it incentivizes avoiding events that have a large chance of failure, and there are a lot of those. Better to not try at all than to waste precious resources (gold, from repair and transit costs, and time) in trying and failing.

So I’ve learned something today

a game of kegbrawl is equivalent to a daily in terms of karma gains

Asko.4120:

HiddenNick.7206:

Asko.4120:

Dear Anet,

I understand that the general consensus among players and developers was that Karma was too trivial, next-to-useless excluding Obsidian Shards and way too easy to get and turn into gold. This certainly warranted some changes, but why did you took away a lion’s share of the pot? There certainly was a middle ground between present and previous states:

- Daily now gives 600 karma instead of the 5 000 from a jug
- Monthly now gives 6 000 karma instead of 50 000 from the 10 jugs
- Dungeon and champion karma rewards gutted
- failed event karma gain removed.
The karma income numbers above from previous patch were the bare minimum: with karma modifiers that daily 5000 could almost double.

The increase in karma item’s content is highly insignificant as there are almost no sources left that even give karma consumables. The aspect of this whole matter that baffles me the most is that you combine this huge change with an increased need for karma in form of the obsidian shards being used for high level crafting. May I ask, what is your goal here?

Also another important point is that the legendary crafting is bottlenecked by karma income. One million karma is an enormous amount to spend and if a player earns 3k-5k karma per day without running braindead karma trains it will be a major point of frustration for all the active legendary crafters.

I beg you for a minute of your time to clarify the reasonings behind karma changes to the community.

Because Karma was absolutely worthless…

Did you even read what I typed? Nerfing something by 90+% is absolutely ridiculous, no matter what the subject is. I could argue that the nerf was over 95% because most people hoarded karma consumables and could get ~75% more karma from a consumable than the original value. This is arenanet killing a fly with an AA turret and Anet needs to address this.

- yes karma was pretty trivial, but you don’t solve the problem by just cutting the supply. Simply making consumables unaffected by modifiers would have affected the total karma income by lot. I’m also behind the failed event karma removal, as it incentivizes completing events. Daily reward changes were way over the top, same for dungeon reward cuts. People who only do party content are pretty screwed now.
- If karma-to-gold schenanigans with Orrian jewelry boxes was the problem then why not nerf the karma rewards within the boxes? though this problem could also have been remedied by simply making karma consumables unaffected by modifiers.
- legendaries take forever to farm now without mindless karma trains (which is glaringly against Anet’s design code). I can earn about 2000-4000 karma per day now including daily if I play for 6 hours. Gee that is enough for almost 2 obsidian shards, that a legendary requires ~500 of. I don’t think it is Anet’s intention to force legendary crafters to grind 250 hours for the shards only.
- while essentially cutting the supply of karma completely Anet even introduced a new karma sink in form of Obi shards being used for ascended crafting. This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Karma in its previous availability was a joke agreed, but Anet went to extreme measures. I’m waiting for a clarification on the changes and possible fixes.

Ok, you can argue whether or not it was an overkill… But it still was the reason behind the nerf.

Daily and monthly reward nerf was needed! You can’t deny that. With those ridiculous rewards all other karma sources was just worthless. Keep in mind that they use karma as a meaningful reward now and add some really exciting karma sources…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I have millions of karma too. However, new players don’t.

It would have been smarter to deflate the value of karma by either increasing prices or introducing new, expensive things to spend it on.

That would have made karma more important both for old-timer millionaires like us, and for newer players.

The approach of drastically cutting karma earn rate, whilst leaving our stashes intact, introduces a real haves and have-nots division. It doesn’t hurt us at all. It hurts new players badly.

I’m a little miffed at the karma nerf, too. I used to spend a lot of it on the Orrian jewelry boxed just because I liked the randomness… Now I’m hoarding it because I can’t get it anymore in any logical way.

So, uh, not working as intended, I’m guessing. I now don’t want to spend any karma at all, in case something comes out that needs karma to buy. And even then, I wouldn’t want to spend it, because I can’t readily get it again.

Karma was just a monthly bonus for me. I only complain about the day to day stuff. And the grind sucks, sucks for what you get out of it.

Milennin.4825:

Instead of nerfing karma income they should have added more attractive rewards to karma so players don’t hoard millions of karma without having anything useful to spend it on.

That would have required a lot more resources than changing a few lines of code. But, yeah, it would have been a more fun thing for them to do.

I haven’t played all summer. I come on to the forums and see posts like this and I see I made the right decision. They can keep the gear treadmill and Karma nerf. I’ll pass. Thanks for saving me the trouble of logging in OP.

I can’t even find stuff to spend my karma on. I think I have bought stuff with it maybe a dozen times and most of that was when I was new with new alts getting those crappy trinkets after finishing a heart. Oh, and I bought a recipe once because the crafting guide said I needed it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I say “Good Job” Anet. A well welcomed change.

Yeah, because having too much money sucks.

Sheesh.

Banquetto.9521:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I have millions of karma too. However, new players don’t.

It would have been smarter to deflate the value of karma by either increasing prices or introducing new, expensive things to spend it on.

That would have made karma more important both for old-timer millionaires like us, and for newer players.

The approach of drastically cutting karma earn rate, whilst leaving our stashes intact, introduces a real haves and have-nots division. It doesn’t hurt us at all. It hurts new players badly.

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

New ways of spending karma would only made daily and monthly rewards even more important. All other rewards (like the one for completing events) would be even less appealing.

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

I would say its all done to make it harder for us all and its totaly unwise. I wrote thread about it and noone seems to listen from devs also, so it sucks cause again ANet turns the blind eye on us, just like on ascended threads. Great work.

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

You’re talking about a different issue… Daily and monthly nerf has nothing to do with what you’re describing.

another way to kill Alts-different build setups and promoting grind and stale playing.

“i dont care i have over 400000000000000 karma this is the right choice”.

say that to a new player or me (im sitting with 22k karma), once again this is making me think twice and just take ANOTHER long break from gw2. gladly ive not spent a single dime and I WONT since i came back.

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

RyuDragnier.9476:

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

So the only issue is no karma for the failed event… Revert that and you will be all happy? This is what you mean?

I personally had some of the worse RNG rolls ever seen while trying to create Mystic Clovers. Under this new system, I’ll never have enough patience to craft enough clovers for a new legendary.

Karma is only in abundance for people who ignore it in their inventory. Players who actually use it to buy armor and shards will never tell you how they have a surplus of it.

Just when the WvWvW badges were a horror show for those who don’t play WvWvW, looks like Karma is going to be the new bottleneck for those who want to craft end game gear.

Give me a break.

HiddenNick.7206:

RyuDragnier.9476:

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

So the only issue is no karma for the failed event… Revert that and you will be all happy? This is what you mean?

No, I mean the fact that they drastically cut the achievement karma to this level AND removed the failed event karma. The achievement karma nerf is pretty kitten huge.

We used to get 6750 karma through a jug, but now we only get a measly 600 through a drop of karma. That’s an 88.75% nerf on it. If they really wanted to nerf the karma drop rate from achievements, they should have given us a Swig or Gulp of Karma. Those are 3K and 3.5K respectively, and would half the karma gain you’d normally have, which is still acceptable.

But lowering it by 88.75%? That’s too kitten much and makes it impossible for new players to get ahold of karma. Not to mention this makes this game a kitten ed grindfest just to get karma, which I thought Anet was against us having…but apparently they reneged on that.

I thought karma was fine as it was before the nerf. I always thought the karma vendors were selling things for too cheap. They should have just increased the karma prices.

RyuDragnier.9476:

HiddenNick.7206:

RyuDragnier.9476:

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

So the only issue is no karma for the failed event… Revert that and you will be all happy? This is what you mean?

No, I mean the fact that they drastically cut the achievement karma to this level AND removed the failed event karma.

Think about what you just wrote… lol

Because you just confirmed that reverting event rewords would solve the problem.

Remove the karma needed for Legendaries and bring back the old system. For the 1-2% of players (~10.000 – 20.000) who farm the legendary, all the others have to suffer this nerf.

HiddenNick.7206:

RyuDragnier.9476:

No, I mean the fact that they drastically cut the achievement karma to this level AND removed the failed event karma.

Think about what you just wrote… lol

Because you just confirmed that reverting event rewords would solve the problem

No, he said that the double-hit was too much. Not necessarily just reverting the events rewards (which, imo, were not as bad as the Daily and Monthly nerf).

Dench.5968:

I personally had some of the worse RNG rolls ever seen while trying to create Mystic Clovers. Under this new system, I’ll never have enough patience to craft enough clovers for a new legendary.

Karma is only in abundance for people who ignore it in their inventory. Players who actually use it to buy armor and shards will never tell you how they have a surplus of it.

Just when the WvWvW badges were a horror show for those who don’t play WvWvW, looks like Karma is going to be the new bottleneck for those who want to craft end game gear.

Give me a break.

I haven’t even started rolling for clovers. This a dozen times over

The dailies and monthlies were one of the few things I still liked in the game. Now they seem pointless. Before the jugs would at least be useful in working towards temple armor and a few accessories. It all just seems pointless now.