One – Piken Square
Will Bolts of Damask ever drop in price?
There are many reliable ways to farm cloth. They are just very different from the ways you farm ores, lumber, and plants.
Many of those ways aren’t able to be quickly targeted though, which is what annoys many farmers.
Using buy orders to salvage requires you to wait. Buying karma armor and forging it requires karma. Running Silverwastes nets you a wide range of materials as well. Killing level-appropriate mobs for armor drops takes time.
I can appreciate the desire for quickly targeting farming, but I can also understand why they aren’t going to add that now. The methods in game right now allow us to achieve the farming result everyone is looking for, they just require you to go above and beyond normal “run to the node and wait” gameplay.
All methods you presented can also be used to “farm” other baisc crafting materials like metal and wood. They’re not farming, they’re kludges to get around the fact that you cannot reliably farm cloth.
Just to loosen your fixation on reliably farming cloth:
Leather cant be farmed reliably as well, yet its mostly worthless. So the fact that cloth isnt reliably farmable cant be the reason why Bolt of Damask is so expensive. Its expensive because its demand is higher.
That’s a fair point, yes. Still, as shown before, the demand of iron is as high or even higher than linen, and yet iron has not become ridiculously expensive because it is reliably farmable.
Introducing such reliable farming method for cloth would inevitably lower their prices. I’m sure you would agree to that at least?
Cloth prices across the board are getting cheaper for 6 months now, with a few seasonal or demographic ups and down. So they clearly already took effective measures to lower their prices, as they gradually go down.
What you are proposing will most definately trigger a price crash.
Why do you prefer a price crash compared to gradually decreasing prices?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
There are many reliable ways to farm cloth. They are just very different from the ways you farm ores, lumber, and plants.
Many of those ways aren’t able to be quickly targeted though, which is what annoys many farmers.
Using buy orders to salvage requires you to wait. Buying karma armor and forging it requires karma. Running Silverwastes nets you a wide range of materials as well. Killing level-appropriate mobs for armor drops takes time.
I can appreciate the desire for quickly targeting farming, but I can also understand why they aren’t going to add that now. The methods in game right now allow us to achieve the farming result everyone is looking for, they just require you to go above and beyond normal “run to the node and wait” gameplay.
All methods you presented can also be used to “farm” other baisc crafting materials like metal and wood. They’re not farming, they’re kludges to get around the fact that you cannot reliably farm cloth.
Just to loosen your fixation on reliably farming cloth:
Leather cant be farmed reliably as well, yet its mostly worthless. So the fact that cloth isnt reliably farmable cant be the reason why Bolt of Damask is so expensive. Its expensive because its demand is higher.
That’s a fair point, yes. Still, as shown before, the demand of iron is as high or even higher than linen, and yet iron has not become ridiculously expensive because it is reliably farmable.
Introducing such reliable farming method for cloth would inevitably lower their prices. I’m sure you would agree to that at least?
Cloth prices across the board are getting cheaper for 6 months now, with a few seasonal or demographic ups and down. So they clearly already took effective measures to lower their prices, as they gradually go down.
What you are proposing will most definately trigger a price crash.
Why do you prefer a price crash compared to gradually decreasing prices?
its a design flaw.
Its basically a faucet with no control that leaks at a steady rate.
Why not just fix the leak, and add lever to control the flow.
This is essentially the same pattern that was already established on game start, but slowed down, eventually, barring some new demand created for silk, the price will slowly fall, if they have a new demand, the price will spike hard, and slowly fall.
The design requires a maintenance man running the economy to periodically empty the bucket under the leaky pipe, and yet, when people actually want water they just have to sit around waiting for the bucket to fill up.
So the design simultaneously creates too much silk, and at the same time makes people feel its a pain to get silk when they actually need it.
The solution is, reduce silk created without intent
create means for creating silk with intent
reduce obnoxious item requirements on basic gameplay items instituted for the sole purpose of draining oversupplied silk.
People claim to want a free market, and yet they dont want to control their own supply, thats a very basic part of a free market, that is key in properly finding the real price point of an item that people would feel comfortable with.
There are many reliable ways to farm cloth. They are just very different from the ways you farm ores, lumber, and plants.
Many of those ways aren’t able to be quickly targeted though, which is what annoys many farmers.
Using buy orders to salvage requires you to wait. Buying karma armor and forging it requires karma. Running Silverwastes nets you a wide range of materials as well. Killing level-appropriate mobs for armor drops takes time.
I can appreciate the desire for quickly targeting farming, but I can also understand why they aren’t going to add that now. The methods in game right now allow us to achieve the farming result everyone is looking for, they just require you to go above and beyond normal “run to the node and wait” gameplay.
All methods you presented can also be used to “farm” other baisc crafting materials like metal and wood. They’re not farming, they’re kludges to get around the fact that you cannot reliably farm cloth.
Just to loosen your fixation on reliably farming cloth:
Leather cant be farmed reliably as well, yet its mostly worthless. So the fact that cloth isnt reliably farmable cant be the reason why Bolt of Damask is so expensive. Its expensive because its demand is higher.
That’s a fair point, yes. Still, as shown before, the demand of iron is as high or even higher than linen, and yet iron has not become ridiculously expensive because it is reliably farmable.
Introducing such reliable farming method for cloth would inevitably lower their prices. I’m sure you would agree to that at least?
Cloth prices across the board are getting cheaper for 6 months now, with a few seasonal or demographic ups and down. So they clearly already took effective measures to lower their prices, as they gradually go down.
What you are proposing will most definately trigger a price crash.
Why do you prefer a price crash compared to gradually decreasing prices?
I think cloth prices went down during Wintersday when you could get cloth materials more reliably from the Gifts. They had a good chance of dropping items that salvaged into Cloth materials.
I’m willing to bet, if those items were usable all year it would’ve been more than enough to drive cloth prices down
Nope. The price will go up at the slightest mention of a new use for damask. Also, Silverwastes is getting less and less populated as times goes on.
The solution is, reduce silk created without intent
create means for creating silk with intent
reduce obnoxious item requirements on basic gameplay items instituted for the sole purpose of draining oversupplied silk.
Basically this.
One – Piken Square
A bit above 10% if you ignore crits. More than 10% if you include crits.
We’re talking about weapons only. 9 more power and 6 more precision and ferocity will not change that difference from 5% (due to weapon strength) to 10%.
Found the problem, I was calculating for an untraited naked character … which unlikely to apply to any real situation.
The solution is, reduce silk created without intent
create means for creating silk with intent
reduce obnoxious item requirements on basic gameplay items instituted for the sole purpose of draining oversupplied silk.Basically this.
So both of you want silk to be directly farmable instead of getting drops of silk, no matter what content you play. Thats fair enough.
But i think Anet rather wants to have it the other way around.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The solution is, reduce silk created without intent
create means for creating silk with intent
reduce obnoxious item requirements on basic gameplay items instituted for the sole purpose of draining oversupplied silk.Basically this.
So both of you want silk to be directly farmable instead of getting drops of silk, no matter what content you play. Thats fair enough.
But i think Anet rather wants to have it the other way around.
You are probably right, but the results of that method are why people feel like loot in this game is worthless, and the only way to achieve anything in a decent time frame is to find the most acceptable gold farm for your personality and repeat it infinitely. And that everything of value requires too many base materials.
So yeah, i think anet thought it was a good idea, but the results dont seem like it was really that great an idea.
Id rather have a real economy where you make choices and control your destiny rather than one where everyone is trash collector, feeding everything to the combine for a pittance.
anyhow, more thought on the matter, they can still let you obtain materials from any content, but they should make you choose what you intend to get.
this way it would still be created with intent.
you would still be able to get it from any content.
i could elaborate, but that is the basis of the idea.
(edited by phys.7689)
Since the exact same thing can be said for metal and wood, I ask you why there are ore and lumber nodes in the game.
Because it makes SENSE that you chop down Trees and mine Ore? I know that sounds silly in a fantasy game setting, but if you think about it, NODES of Cloth and Leather existing in the game world is kind of “immersion breaking” (and I HATE that term).
but mostly this…
Because metal and wood have a huge sink in crafting rare lvl 80 weapons for the forge.
Cloth and leather dont have that extra sink.
I also think there are quite a few things about the crafting system Anet Devs would love to go back in time and change, but they realize that changing them now would upset a lot of long time player AND seriously mess up the current economic balances that are in place. Still, I think lowering the requirements for Silk on a Bolt of Damask would be done if they felt the Silk supply could not meet the current demand (and it obviously is).
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
(edited by Brother Grimm.5176)
Since the exact same thing can be said for metal and wood, I ask you why there are ore and lumber nodes in the game.
Because it makes SENSE that you chop down Trees and mine Ore? I know that sounds silly in a fantasy game setting, but if you think about it, NODES of Cloth and Leather existing in the game world is kind of “immersion breaking” (and I HATE that term).
its not silly some monsters carry around randomly, multiple peices at times, of armor/weapons that they cant even use? jelly fish dropping armor?
and there are ways to create nodes that wouldnt be immersion breaking regardless
Since the exact same thing can be said for metal and wood, I ask you why there are ore and lumber nodes in the game.
Because it makes SENSE that you chop down Trees and mine Ore? I know that sounds silly in a fantasy game setting, but if you think about it, NODES of Cloth and Leather existing in the game world is kind of “immersion breaking” (and I HATE that term).
but mostly this…
Because metal and wood have a huge sink in crafting rare lvl 80 weapons for the forge.
Cloth and leather dont have that extra sink.I also think there are quite a few things about the crafting system Anet Devs would love to go back in time and change, but they realize that changing them now would upset a lot of long time player AND seriously mess up the current economic balances that are in place. Still, I think lowering the requirements for Silk on a Bolt of Damask would be done if they felt the Silk supply could not meet the current demand (and it obviously is).
Silk from larvae
Wool from sheep
Linen from plant fibers
Skins from animals
Basically, they need to add “skinning” to the gathering abilities (for leather/wool/etc.) and throw in some plant nodes that make sense (like linen.)
OR
Revert the silk bolt change back to 2 scraps from 3 and change the other cloth to 1 scrap (or reduce the amount required for Damask by 1/2.)
(edited by azurrei.5691)
Because it makes SENSE that you chop down Trees and mine Ore? I know that sounds silly in a fantasy game setting, but if you think about it, NODES of Cloth and Leather existing in the game world is kind of “immersion breaking” (and I HATE that term).
Not really. Nodes for cloth actually DO make sense. Many the fabrics of the game are derived from natural plant materials. And those that aren’t derived from plant materials can be presented in non-immersion-breaking ways. For example…
Jute Solution: Jute plant node gives players “raw jute,” which is then refined into bolts of jute.
Wool Solution: Sheep (or some other wool-producing critter) node gives players “raw wool,” which is then refined into bolts of wool.
Cotton Solution: Cotton plant node gives players “raw cotton,” which is then refined into bolts of cotton.
Linen Solution: Flax plant node gives players “raw flax,” which is then refined into bolts of linen.
Silk Solution: Silkworm node gives players “raw silk,” which is then refined into bolts of silk.
Gossamer Solution: Tricky because gossamer is a weave when talking textiles. Could use silk bolts to refine into gossamer (which could have been a solution for the silk oversupply before ascended crafting). Or ANet could say that the gossamer textiles in Tyria are derived from spider silk (which is also known as gossamer) and have spider nodes that produce “raw gossamer,” which is then refined into bolts of gossamer.
ANet’s mistake was making the unrefined versions of cloth “scraps of X.” Instead, they should have had nodes throughout the world that would produce the raw components that would be processed into rather than cloth scrap drops.
Something similar could have been done for leather too (critter nodes throughout that players could farm to get “untanned hides” to process into leather squares).
Chaos Spatulai [Chef] | Paragon City Elite [PCE]
Henge of Denravi
Henge of Denravi
Since the exact same thing can be said for metal and wood, I ask you why there are ore and lumber nodes in the game.
Because it makes SENSE that you chop down Trees and mine Ore? I know that sounds silly in a fantasy game setting, but if you think about it, NODES of Cloth and Leather existing in the game world is kind of “immersion breaking” (and I HATE that term).
Why would refining harvested jute, cotton, or linen fibers into bolts of cloth break immersion? Why would skinning a slain boar, stag, or similar animal break immersion?
We already get leather and cloth salvage from certain critters. Not a lot I grant you but does the game have enough space for 30-40 “leather nodes” per map? Otherwise every critter than drops that salvage will be farmed mercilessly. You wouldn’t find a Dolyak, wolf, warg, bear, etc anywhere. It’ll look like the buffalo hunts of the 19th century US with carcasses everywhere.
Now expanding the gathering drop table, maybe introduce a plant type that says “cloth” could help. But would that be nodes addition to or just another type of the 30-40 nodes we get per map?
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
i dont think the complaint is that they are short on silk, its that they dont feel they have a realistic method for obtaining it in a timely fashion.
essentially people trying to get ascended feel like they are supposed to get 300 silk scraps per day. They decide they dont want to spend their gold for it so they try to get it through gameplay, it takes them 2-3 hours, and they think that sucks.
they wonder why 6 gold worth of materials costs 2-3 hours of gameplay to obtain.
The current system essentially forces them to market, and encourages them to do whatever gold grind they have probably done to death by now, and are somewhat bored of.
that said i agree its unlikely to change, its something that carries development time and risk
(edited by phys.7689)
I think the fact that it’s easier to grind gold for silk than it is to grind for silk plays into the “no grind” philosophy. Gold comes from natural gameplay. There are ways to get it faster and more efficiently, but everything you do gets you gold. Farming for a particular material (especially 300 per day) is grinding. They don’t want us to grind.
What I tell people who complain about silk:
> Play the game the way you want to, then sell what you don’t need and buy what you do.
It keeps the economy flowing. It’s the hoarding that makes people feel like they can’t afford the things they need. Sell all those materials you aren’t using and you’ll always have enough money for the ones you want.
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
i dont think the complaint is that they are short on silk, its that they dont feel they have a realistic method for obtaining it in a timely fashion.
essentially people trying to get ascended feel like they are supposed to get 300 silk scraps per day. They decide they dont want to spend their gold for it so they try to get it through gameplay, it takes them 2-3 hours, and they think that sucks.
they wonder why 6 gold worth of materials costs 2-3 hours of gameplay to obtain.
The current system essentially forces them to market, and encourages them to do whatever gold grind they have probably done to death by now, and are somewhat bored of.
that said i agree its unlikely to change, its something that carries development time and risk
So they want to stop grinding gold because its boring and rather run from one node to the next because they think its fun but it isnt rewarded enough?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
(edited by Wanze.8410)
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
i dont think the complaint is that they are short on silk, its that they dont feel they have a realistic method for obtaining it in a timely fashion.
essentially people trying to get ascended feel like they are supposed to get 300 silk scraps per day. They decide they dont want to spend their gold for it so they try to get it through gameplay, it takes them 2-3 hours, and they think that sucks.
they wonder why 6 gold worth of materials costs 2-3 hours of gameplay to obtain.
The current system essentially forces them to market, and encourages them to do whatever gold grind they have probably done to death by now, and are somewhat bored of.
that said i agree its unlikely to change, its something that carries development time and risk
So basically it’s not a “real” problem, but a “percieved” problem. The players don’t want to spend the time actually doing what it takes to get it, because it “takes to much time” and “it’s not cost effective”. So they turn to the market, for such an in demand item, and complain the costs are too high.
Of course the costs are high, it’s a high demand item that many people feel they “need” to go to the TP in order to get it. Where each purchase only increases the prices. Which in turn causes more people to think the only way to aquire it is to farm gold and buy it off the TP, because it’s more “efficient”. Ad Infinitum.
So basically, it’s not that silk uses 3 scraps per bolt, and 100 bolts per damask, it’s that player “feel” they need to have it sooner rather than later. And that in order to get it sooner they need to run a bunch of dungeons per day in order to by the increasing price of silk. Which is the very crux of the “issue”. People don’t want to do the work to get it. Some of us have speculated that there around around 3000 sources of silk in game (it’s not confirmed, but a very reasonable number looking at a combination of bags, salvage items, and light armor.)
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
There’s no guaranteed source of any particular cloth. Even if you buy stuff to mystic forge, you may get an item that is slightly lower or higher in tier and get a different cloth.
You can number your 3000 or 30000 sources of whatever, and it won’t change the fact that if I want to get a stack of iron, I can directly mine iron, but if I want a stack of cotton, either I buy it on the trading post, or make a lower level character and kill enemies that may or may not drop items that can be salvaged for cotton, or with a higher level character take even longer, as cotton will only drop from the already rare garments, rags and packaged goods that drop from enemies that are also rare compared to those that drop salvageable metal and salvageable leather straps.
All of those sources already exist for metal and wood too. And in fact, most them overlap with them (excepting things like getting karma gear to mystic forge and salvage, which is horribly annoying and hurts your hands). So while you are going around the world getting cloth, you’ll get even more wood and metal at the same time. And there’s no way to slightly focus on cloth like you can do in metal and wood when going for their nodes specifically.
It’s a basic material. And so cloth should not be a bottleneck greater than any material of higher rarity, but it is.
(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
i dont think the complaint is that they are short on silk, its that they dont feel they have a realistic method for obtaining it in a timely fashion.
essentially people trying to get ascended feel like they are supposed to get 300 silk scraps per day. They decide they dont want to spend their gold for it so they try to get it through gameplay, it takes them 2-3 hours, and they think that sucks.
they wonder why 6 gold worth of materials costs 2-3 hours of gameplay to obtain.
The current system essentially forces them to market, and encourages them to do whatever gold grind they have probably done to death by now, and are somewhat bored of.
that said i agree its unlikely to change, its something that carries development time and risk
So they want to stop grinding gold because its boring and rather run from one node to the next because they think its fun but it isnt rewarded enough?
because the entire reason you need to do 2-3 hours of direct play for silk is because they overproduced it and gave it to everyone regardless of their desire for it.
ascended silk was designed to solve a problem for over abundance of silk, it was not designed with actual gameplay of getting silk/crafting/progressing in mind, thats probably why it is so unsatisfying.
also a node is only form of solution, the real key, is a way to get cloth, with intent. And im throwing in that the amount of cloth produced without intent should be lowered.
intent doesnt have to be nodes, but it has to be a descion that is made, with a trade off, that is how you create things of value.
(edited by phys.7689)
There is a difference between a full revamp of the gathering system (silk from lave, etc.) and adding some generic cloth and leather nodes (like the home instance ones) into the game. Never said it could not be MADE to make sense but that would be a significant amount of work.
As pointed out, the REAL reason they don’t exist is the economic one. Just because individual players may feel they are “short” of Silk does not mean the overall material supply NEEDs more Silk and “cloth nodes” (no matter how they get put in the game) would certainly increase the overall supply in game.
i dont think the complaint is that they are short on silk, its that they dont feel they have a realistic method for obtaining it in a timely fashion.
essentially people trying to get ascended feel like they are supposed to get 300 silk scraps per day. They decide they dont want to spend their gold for it so they try to get it through gameplay, it takes them 2-3 hours, and they think that sucks.
they wonder why 6 gold worth of materials costs 2-3 hours of gameplay to obtain.
The current system essentially forces them to market, and encourages them to do whatever gold grind they have probably done to death by now, and are somewhat bored of.
that said i agree its unlikely to change, its something that carries development time and risk
So basically it’s not a “real” problem, but a “percieved” problem. The players don’t want to spend the time actually doing what it takes to get it, because it “takes to much time” and “it’s not cost effective”. So they turn to the market, for such an in demand item, and complain the costs are too high.
Of course the costs are high, it’s a high demand item that many people feel they “need” to go to the TP in order to get it. Where each purchase only increases the prices. Which in turn causes more people to think the only way to aquire it is to farm gold and buy it off the TP, because it’s more “efficient”. Ad Infinitum.
So basically, it’s not that silk uses 3 scraps per bolt, and 100 bolts per damask, it’s that player “feel” they need to have it sooner rather than later. And that in order to get it sooner they need to run a bunch of dungeons per day in order to by the increasing price of silk. Which is the very crux of the “issue”. People don’t want to do the work to get it. Some of us have speculated that there around around 3000 sources of silk in game (it’s not confirmed, but a very reasonable number looking at a combination of bags, salvage items, and light armor.)
a percieved problem is a real problem. They create these systems to engage and encourage people to continue to play.
the fact that people arent satisfied with the pacing is a real problem
the amount of people who say screw this ascended crap is real problem. Its not supposed to be the type of thing people reject.
the system is poorly designed,
Why exactly is the design such that someone has to work harder to achieve the same goal for a different charachter?
why is a cloth person taking more days, gathering more base items, that take longer to gather, than another class? does this make sense from a design standpoint?
you rolled necromancer, so it will take you an extra 7 days to get armor? and you will have to work twice as hard to get it?
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
altering perception is is basically the final solution only when you have failed at other solutions.
what it means is that you as an engineer, or designer have given up on solving the problem, so the best thing is to learn to deal with it.
i want to make a faster car
solution
dont want a faster car.
better solution
make a faster car
a percieved problem is a real problem. They create these systems to engage and encourage people to continue to play.
the fact that people arent satisfied with the pacing is a real problem
the amount of people who say screw this ascended crap is real problem. Its not supposed to be the type of thing people reject.the system is poorly designed,
Why exactly is the design such that someone has to work harder to achieve the same goal for a different charachter?why is a cloth person taking more days, gathering more base items, that take longer to gather, than another class? does this make sense from a design standpoint?
you rolled necromancer, so it will take you an extra 7 days to get armor? and you will have to work twice as hard to get it?
Having a couple of light classes (necro and ele) it doesn’t seem “unfair” to me at all. Sure I need to work a bit harder, and take a few extra days to get what I need. It it so broken and such a poor design that it makes the game unbearable? Not in the slightest. I knew what I was getting into what I rolled those classes. I don’t think of myself as a special snowflake that deserves anything in-game at all.
Also a percieved problem and a real problem are 2 very different things. One is the idea that something is broken and needs to be fixed because it doesn’t line up with a particular point of view. A real problem is something that everyone can agree is broke and needs to be fixed. It also has no idealogical attachments that it is broken.
And we forget that it was designed this way on purpose. Using metrics and numbers that we don’t have access to. So while it may appear that the amount of damask (and thus silk) is way off balance. We have no idea how much silk is entering the game at any given point, and how much is being destroyed. If we had access to those numbers it may just be that it is actually a balance as the input of silk is far greater than we think it is.
We only see the results of the system itself. We don’t see all the factors it takes or how it works. It’s one thing to say that it’s broken and unfair only seeing the results, and quite another to see how the system works, what factors are determined, and what not and then making a determination as to whether or not it’s broken.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
a percieved problem is a real problem. They create these systems to engage and encourage people to continue to play.
the fact that people arent satisfied with the pacing is a real problem
the amount of people who say screw this ascended crap is real problem. Its not supposed to be the type of thing people reject.the system is poorly designed,
Why exactly is the design such that someone has to work harder to achieve the same goal for a different charachter?why is a cloth person taking more days, gathering more base items, that take longer to gather, than another class? does this make sense from a design standpoint?
you rolled necromancer, so it will take you an extra 7 days to get armor? and you will have to work twice as hard to get it?
Having a couple of light classes (necro and ele) it doesn’t seem “unfair” to me at all. Sure I need to work a bit harder, and take a few extra days to get what I need. It it so broken and such a poor design that it makes the game unbearable? Not in the slightest. I knew what I was getting into what I rolled those classes. I don’t think of myself as a special snowflake that deserves anything in-game at all.
Also a percieved problem and a real problem are 2 very different things. One is the idea that something is broken and needs to be fixed because it doesn’t line up with a particular point of view. A real problem is something that everyone can agree is broke and needs to be fixed. It also has no idealogical attachments that it is broken.
And we forget that it was designed this way on purpose. Using metrics and numbers that we don’t have access to. So while it may appear that the amount of damask (and thus silk) is way off balance. We have no idea how much silk is entering the game at any given point, and how much is being destroyed. If we had access to those numbers it may just be that it is actually a balance as the input of silk is far greater than we think it is.
We only see the results of the system itself. We don’t see all the factors it takes or how it works. It’s one thing to say that it’s broken and unfair only seeing the results, and quite another to see how the system works, what factors are determined, and what not and then making a determination as to whether or not it’s broken.
a poor design is a poor design.
ascended is best in slot, therefore it is , progression based.
the fact that it takes more time and effort to get the same gear rating as another class is exactly like them deciding cloth armor classes should get 15% less exp than heavy armor classes.
regardless of how many metrics, and what your design intent may have been you can get things wrong.
http://engineeringfailures.org/
its just reality, no one is perfect and many times designs fail or have to be reworked.
Ignoring the time gate of crafting Damask, light armor always required twice as much cloth as either medium or heavy. Ascended armor simply maintains this relationship. It’s consistent.
An exotic light chest piece needs 2 Hardened Leather Sections (T6) and 20 Gossamer Scraps (T6). An exotic heavy chest piece needs 10 Orichalcum Ore (T6) and 12 Gossamer Scraps (T6).
Now in the case of ascended light chest piece, it’s one Elonian Leather Square and 8 Bolts of Damask. An ascended heavy chest piece needs Five Deldrimor Steel and 4 Bolts of Damask.
So the basic formula of cloth for insignia plus either cloth/leather/ore is used across all armor formulas. They are not intentionally picking on light armor. Now since they put the gate on refining ascended mats, that’s what makes light armor take nearly twice as long to grind out. But the time gate was there so the Richie Rich’s of the game wouldn’t get ascended exceptionally fast. Same reasoning behind charged crystals. Sets everybody on an even footing.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Ignoring the time gate of crafting Damask, light armor always required twice as much cloth as either medium or heavy. Ascended armor simply maintains this relationship. It’s consistent.
An exotic light chest piece needs 2 Hardened Leather Sections (T6) and 20 Gossamer Scraps (T6). An exotic heavy chest piece needs 10 Orichalcum Ore (T6) and 12 Gossamer Scraps (T6).
Now in the case of ascended light chest piece, it’s one Elonian Leather Square and 8 Bolts of Damask. An ascended heavy chest piece needs Five Deldrimor Steel and 4 Bolts of Damask.
So the basic formula of cloth for insignia plus either cloth/leather/ore is used across all armor formulas. They are not intentionally picking on light armor. Now since they put the gate on refining ascended mats, that’s what makes light armor take nearly twice as long to grind out. But the time gate was there so the Richie Rich’s of the game wouldn’t get ascended exceptionally fast. Same reasoning behind charged crystals. Sets everybody on an even footing.
yes and it has always been a flawed relationship, but more so with needing twice as many teir 5 silk for the time gated material, and changing silk to require 3 scraps. thats gathering per day swing of 150 or double the amount.
Not to mention at the start cloth was also in high demand, with lower supply, which caused cloth classes to pay more per peice. I remember leveling clothcraft was a real pain because it was nigh impossible to get the silk you needed (back then you had to spend your gold on new gears, trait manuals, etc so you didnt have any to spare)
Time made this irrelevant as people out grew the need for cloth, but still keep getting it anyway, (so it became dirt cheap) they totally forgot this basic flaw with their crafting design, and continued it later with much higher stakes. and here we are, months later, and ascended cloth is twice the headache to get and takes extra time, because of a number of bad descions in its design.
the ritchie riches still get everything fast because they pay some one else to do it, and buy the final peices The richie riches had it first day as well by paying people for their daily threads back then as well, they just had to pay a lot.
its a just a really bad design.
It was a bad design to begin with at launch,
then they made it worse, mithrilium needs 1/3rd the amount of teir 5 a day, and its easier to get.
so end result? clothies work harder, and take longer for the same result.
the endgame progression of a cloth charachter is longer, more to buy, or takes twice as long if you try not to buy it.
Phys:
Ok (for the sake of argument) lets say that ascended cloth armor is not fair, and downright mean.
What should be done? Increase the amount of silk in the game? Decrease the amount of silk needed per bolt? Decrease the amount of bolts needed for damask?
Imcreasing the amount of silk will have long term consequences on the whole economy. My guess would be bad ones at that. A depreciation of cloth in general, exotics, rares, etc. And who knows what else. Which leads to more in game money which leads to other bad things.
decrease the amounts needed? What about those who spent the time and money? Does it get refunded? Or is it just too bad for them? But thats not fair either Plus what would happen to the market? Would silk go back to being worthless? What would happen to the supply? How would it effect other mats, and craftable items?
Of course this is all based on some supposed idea that everything MUST be fair or its broken. The only people who seem to take issue with the system as it is are those who feel that because they are at a disadvantage, that the system itself must change to accommodate them. The truth is that the system is not likely to change anytime soon, and certainly not because certain people feel that they can’t get what they want withput having to put in the time and effort, and work under the perameters established by the class of their choice.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Ignoring the time gate of crafting Damask, light armor always required twice as much cloth as either medium or heavy. Ascended armor simply maintains this relationship. It’s consistent.
An exotic light chest piece needs 2 Hardened Leather Sections (T6) and 20 Gossamer Scraps (T6). An exotic heavy chest piece needs 10 Orichalcum Ore (T6) and 12 Gossamer Scraps (T6).
Now in the case of ascended light chest piece, it’s one Elonian Leather Square and 8 Bolts of Damask. An ascended heavy chest piece needs Five Deldrimor Steel and 4 Bolts of Damask.
So the basic formula of cloth for insignia plus either cloth/leather/ore is used across all armor formulas. They are not intentionally picking on light armor. Now since they put the gate on refining ascended mats, that’s what makes light armor take nearly twice as long to grind out. But the time gate was there so the Richie Rich’s of the game wouldn’t get ascended exceptionally fast. Same reasoning behind charged crystals. Sets everybody on an even footing.
yes and it has always been a flawed relationship, but more so with needing twice as many teir 5 silk for the time gated material, and changing silk to require 3 scraps. thats gathering per day swing of 150 or double the amount.
Not to mention at the start cloth was also in high demand, with lower supply, which caused cloth classes to pay more per peice. I remember leveling clothcraft was a real pain because it was nigh impossible to get the silk you needed (back then you had to spend your gold on new gears, trait manuals, etc so you didnt have any to spare)
Time made this irrelevant as people out grew the need for cloth, but still keep getting it anyway, (so it became dirt cheap) they totally forgot this basic flaw with their crafting design, and continued it later with much higher stakes. and here we are, months later, and ascended cloth is twice the headache to get and takes extra time, because of a number of bad descions in its design.
the ritchie riches still get everything fast because they pay some one else to do it, and buy the final peices The richie riches had it first day as well by paying people for their daily threads back then as well, they just had to pay a lot.
its a just a really bad design.
It was a bad design to begin with at launch,
then they made it worse, mithrilium needs 1/3rd the amount of teir 5 a day, and its easier to get.so end result? clothies work harder, and take longer for the same result.
the endgame progression of a cloth charachter is longer, more to buy, or takes twice as long if you try not to buy it.
It’s not the 2 to3 change in silk. Thick Leather is also needs 3 to refine, it was also and still has a glut in supply available at minimum price. The requirement in needing 100 silk bolts versus 50 of the refined leather and metal T5 mats the other two refined ascended mat certainly hurt.
But having problems gathering enough cloth mats, including silk before ascended hit, that’s laughable. Silk was at 8c @ 4 million. I get jute and silk all the time and when I played the mid level zones I got plenty of cotton, linen and wool. Just didn’t hang around those zones, maybe I should and make a quick buck.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
It makes no sense that it takes 100 silk per damask.
Why is anet OK with one ascended item being over triple the price of the other ones?
It does make sense though. Silk, as stated above, was way over supplied. Having 100 bolts, and 3 scraps per, makes a very effective silk sink. And there is about 3000 different sources for silk, the stuff is super easy to come by. Even more so with gear weighting loot on the light armor professions. However, people dont want to farm it, so they look to the TP to speed up the process, which is fine, but leads to an increase of prices on the TP. If you farm it, its not nearly as expensive, but does take time. Time that people arent willing to spend.
It made sense at first, now it no longer does that the supply of silk isn’t so insanely high with no use.
They need to fix it.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
(edited by Wanze.8410)
Ignoring the time gate of crafting Damask, light armor always required twice as much cloth as either medium or heavy. Ascended armor simply maintains this relationship. It’s consistent.
An exotic light chest piece needs 2 Hardened Leather Sections (T6) and 20 Gossamer Scraps (T6). An exotic heavy chest piece needs 10 Orichalcum Ore (T6) and 12 Gossamer Scraps (T6).
Now in the case of ascended light chest piece, it’s one Elonian Leather Square and 8 Bolts of Damask. An ascended heavy chest piece needs Five Deldrimor Steel and 4 Bolts of Damask.
So the basic formula of cloth for insignia plus either cloth/leather/ore is used across all armor formulas. They are not intentionally picking on light armor. Now since they put the gate on refining ascended mats, that’s what makes light armor take nearly twice as long to grind out. But the time gate was there so the Richie Rich’s of the game wouldn’t get ascended exceptionally fast. Same reasoning behind charged crystals. Sets everybody on an even footing.
yes and it has always been a flawed relationship, but more so with needing twice as many teir 5 silk for the time gated material, and changing silk to require 3 scraps. thats gathering per day swing of 150 or double the amount.
Not to mention at the start cloth was also in high demand, with lower supply, which caused cloth classes to pay more per peice. I remember leveling clothcraft was a real pain because it was nigh impossible to get the silk you needed (back then you had to spend your gold on new gears, trait manuals, etc so you didnt have any to spare)
Time made this irrelevant as people out grew the need for cloth, but still keep getting it anyway, (so it became dirt cheap) they totally forgot this basic flaw with their crafting design, and continued it later with much higher stakes. and here we are, months later, and ascended cloth is twice the headache to get and takes extra time, because of a number of bad descions in its design.
the ritchie riches still get everything fast because they pay some one else to do it, and buy the final peices The richie riches had it first day as well by paying people for their daily threads back then as well, they just had to pay a lot.
its a just a really bad design.
It was a bad design to begin with at launch,
then they made it worse, mithrilium needs 1/3rd the amount of teir 5 a day, and its easier to get.so end result? clothies work harder, and take longer for the same result.
the endgame progression of a cloth charachter is longer, more to buy, or takes twice as long if you try not to buy it.It’s not the 2 to3 change in silk. Thick Leather is also needs 3 to refine, it was also and still has a glut in supply available at minimum price. The requirement in needing 100 silk bolts versus 50 of the refined leather and metal T5 mats the other two refined ascended mat certainly hurt.
But having problems gathering enough cloth mats, including silk before ascended hit, that’s laughable. Silk was at 8c @ 4 million. I get jute and silk all the time and when I played the mid level zones I got plenty of cotton, linen and wool. Just didn’t hang around those zones, maybe I should and make a quick buck.
if you look back at the initial prices, and compare them to each other, you see that for a long time, cloths were more expensive than most other basic materials
compare the first 5 months
jute to copper
cotton to iron
wool to iron
linen to platinum
only mithril has had better value, and thats probably due to the precursor system.
the cloth situation has always been a bad one.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
They should lower the required amount of silk to get a spool of weaving thread. That item is clearly the source of the steep price of silk. There was too much silk in the market making its price really low. But when ascended armour crafting came plus they increased the needed silk scraps thrice it crashed its price. It should be temporary solution and reverted long time ago. Silk won’t be @8c even with 100 scraps per one bolt of damask because even mithril, which is much more abundant, is @45c.
Yes, they added additional source of silk in season 2 but that was also temporary, silk price has gone up recently.
It made sense at first, now it no longer does that the supply of silk isn’t so insanely high with no use.
They need to fix it.
I rather they fixed leather by increasing its consumption. And gossamer, as gossamer is hitting the floor now. I think that silk price isn’t that bad right now.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?
essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.
the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.
It made sense at first, now it no longer does that the supply of silk isn’t so insanely high with no use.
They need to fix it.
I rather they fixed leather by increasing its consumption. And gossamer, as gossamer is hitting the floor now. I think that silk price isn’t that bad right now.
silk price isnt bad for one silk, the problem is for its main use, you need 300 a day, or 7200 for an armorset.
they can increase leather consumption, and gossamer, but that will just recreate the problem.
fact is, the supply is just too high, and inelastic, unless they can create a method for consuming these materials, that isnt a form of main progression, and is needed over, and over again, they will have the same issues in terms of people not enjoying having to collect/grind gold for items by the 500-1000s
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
They should lower the required amount of silk to get a spool of weaving thread. That item is clearly the source of the steep price of silk. There was too much silk in the market making its price really low. But when ascended armour crafting came plus they increased the needed silk scraps thrice it crashed its price. It should be temporary solution and reverted long time ago. Silk won’t be @8c even with 100 scraps per one bolt of damask because even mithril, which is much more abundant, is @45c.
Yes, they added additional source of silk in season 2 but that was also temporary, silk price has gone up recently.
mithril is consumed in vast quanitities by precursor attempts.
So perhaps the solution should have been legendary armors, but then the market would really combust, with no way to adjust the supply for the demand.
(edited by phys.7689)
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?
essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.
the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.
The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.
So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
They should lower the required amount of silk to get a spool of weaving thread. That item is clearly the source of the steep price of silk. There was too much silk in the market making its price really low. But when ascended armour crafting came plus they increased the needed silk scraps thrice it crashed its price. It should be temporary solution and reverted long time ago. Silk won’t be @8c even with 100 scraps per one bolt of damask because even mithril, which is much more abundant, is @45c.
Yes, they added additional source of silk in season 2 but that was also temporary, silk price has gone up recently.
Just adjusting the requirements for silk for 1 bolt of damask will not change much on the actual price of damask unless you also adjust the droprates or requirements for wool/cotton/linen.
If you slash the requirement for silk, it will result in more demand for the other 3 cloths for daily damask crafting. So if those arent adjusted, their price will rise and it will level out the savings we made on silk.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?
essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.
the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.
The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.
So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.
Phys suggested that by making cloth directly farmable, the random drops of cloth could be reduced at the same time.
I’m in the same boat. I think that there should be more ways to harvest crafting materials intently, and less random drops that people just TP off because they don’t need them.
You’re looking at the situation at a global level, whereas we’re trying to look at it at an individual level. Having more ways to directly affect what you get from your gameplay means more fun. At least I would wager that’s the case for the majority of players.
One – Piken Square
It’s an interesting idea, for sure. (It highly reminds me of running through the crafting of Raw Wool to Yarn to Cloth in Ultima Online. A bit tedious but considerably easy once you could find sheep)
I just think it’s too late to alter the game for cloth direct drops (or fibers to spin into cloth) to happen.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
mithril is consumed in vast quanitities by precursor attempts.
So perhaps the solution should have been legendary armors, but then the market would really combust, with no way to adjust the supply for the demand.
It’s also easier to get mithril through normal play.
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?
essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.
the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.
The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.
So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.
Phys suggested that by making cloth directly farmable, the random drops of cloth could be reduced at the same time.
I’m in the same boat. I think that there should be more ways to harvest crafting materials intently, and less random drops that people just TP off because they don’t need them.
You’re looking at the situation at a global level, whereas we’re trying to look at it at an individual level. Having more ways to directly affect what you get from your gameplay means more fun. At least I would wager that’s the case for the majority of players.
I know but that discussion is held in the “RNG as a concept” thread.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Well, before they do any drastic changes, like adding direct farming nodes for Cloth materials or reducing the amount of Silk needed in the Bolts of Damask, how about allowing first items to salvage into ALL their material components?
Cloth materials are needed for all armor types, if you include the insignia, medium armor needs more cloth mats than leather mats. So how about making all types of armor salvage into cloth scraps + leather/metal?
To fix this, they have to remove lv 80 armor drop from non-lvl 80 zones, so people can go in low level zones if they need low level material…
To fix this, they have to remove lv 80 armor drop from non-lvl 80 zones, so people can go in low level zones if they need low level material…
Do you know why they have so many lvl 80 drops in no 80 zones?
a percieved problem is a real problem.
Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.
Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.
The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.
Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.
If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.
you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?
essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.
the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.
The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.
So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.
the problem is, the supply does not adapt to the demand. Which is why they had to create these giant item sinks to compensate for the lack of value from overproduction.
There is over production, and the solution is over consumption, to the detriment of good game design when it comes to progression, inventory, general design philosophies, over importance of zerg and mindless play.
its really odd, because they try to nerf mindless play and zerging from time to time, but most of their reward systems encourage it.
the set up of silk and ascended encourages people to overproduce and overfarm and undercut, because if you need 300 silk a day, and you spent 1.5 hours in a zerg farm to get 200, you need those items you didnt want to sell fast before the timer resets, better put them 1c lower than the lowest seller, and there are ton of people out there doing the same thing, because it is the most logical solution.