Guild Wars 2

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I am so sorry that a simple observation regarding metrics, while trying to avoid criticizing any aspect of gameplay provoked such an angry and visceral response from you. I do apologize.

I’m not angry, just annoyed. If anything, it’s my fault: I keep forgetting that literally every game forum out there is riddled with kinds of people I’m talking about.

In my opinion the crux here is that People will do things they don’t want if it gets them what they do want.

Basically, there are rewards that people want, when t he desire for those rewards is great enough, it doesn’t matter what’s in between to get them.

That’s based on my personal experience at least. Now I value my time too much to spend time grinding, or following storylines that have little if any impact on the main story.

To get people like me playing again, you have to provide value to me. Wasting my time on grind or following storylines that aren’t important in the larger scope of things isn’t going to do it for me.

Bring me new ways to do combat (build diversity), challenges, and progress the main storyline, or build upon the story of the main characters. That’s what I want, and that’s what I’m not seeing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They explained why they opted to go with 2 week updates. Basically it boils down to the people that do have oodles of time to play stop playing it in a short period of time, the average players take a little longer, and then you have the really casual players that take even longer.

They went with two weeks because they realized that was the sweet spot for players to get hyped about new content without the last content patch getting too tiresome. It’s a simple marketing mechanic. I read it from an ANet interview awhile back but for the life of me I can’t find it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem is that they can’t just leave everything in the game forever.

Why in the world not??????

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

I certainly wont.

Morrigan.2809:

I just wanted to say that this update is the first LS I have done/even looked at since SAB, not because I don’t like SAB btw.
I am also probably the only person who has no nodes in my home instance.

I just like to play fun content(for me): I loved the gauntlet, I hate zerg rushing/farming, I enjoyed teq, I don’t like repeating stuff over to tick a box.
I have been playing GW2 though and I have been having a very enjoyable time.

You’re not the only one without nodes. I have no idea what having a node in your home instance even means.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

That’s ridiculous.

That kind of thinking comes with the GIANT caveat that you have the time to fully do everything. What is this adherence to trying to emulate real-life chronology? You’re supposed to be able to revisit things you like. That’s why these games are so cool…because they aren’t like real-life where if you miss a deadline or get stuck in traffic you’re screwed. Why in the world would anyone want to make a hundred different story events for players to enjoy, but each of them only available for 2 weeks?

And even if you did manage to enjoy all of some temp content, and it was your favorite stuff you’ve ever done in the game…it’s still gone for good in a few days. What in the wide, wide, world of sports were they trying to accomplish with that? The only thing I can think of is bitter sentimentality.

Even so, it’s a game that’s supposed to be entertaining. Some of your favorite movies you’ll watch over and over and over and still get enjoyment out of it. It’s the same with games. If you like certain aspects of the game, you’ll spend most of your time there. What is so hard about having both options: continue advancing the storyline, yet keep a lot of the things you’ve done in-game as an option to revisit…at least for alts…or as a personal instance…or something.

This diehard insistence on temporary content is mind-boggling.

To add: No I wouldn’t want to watch my child being born everyday…in person. But I’d certainly want to watch it on video every now and then to remind myself how joyous that moment was. Even 9/11, I would watch again(and have btw) if only to remind myself of how fragile and precious our freedoms are in America. It’s a good thing to be able to remind yourself of that by revisiting it. Replayability of storyline events in games is essentially the same idea, if on a much more casual scale.

Simple suggestion:

Make storyline content like picking districts was in GW1. Only the districts are really time-periods. For instance, you could pick between pre- and post-Molten Alliance timeframes in Wayfarer Foothills. Just have it as an option when you choose the area. And when something else down the storyline changes the look/feel/culture of the Foothills slightly, add a 3rd option to toggle to.

The LS content is designed as a rush tactic. Its supposed to make you feel like your going to miss something if you don’t finish it or buy the limited time items. By its design it pushes players to keep returning and opening there wallet often getting very little to show for it. Its a ongoing circle of hype, hope, and reluctant participation being used to nickle and dime the community every two weeks.

Obsidian.1328:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

That’s ridiculous.

That kind of thinking comes with the GIANT caveat that you have the time to fully do everything. What is this adherence to trying to emulate real-life chronology? You’re supposed to be able to revisit things you like. That’s why these games are so cool…because they aren’t like real-life where if you miss a deadline or get stuck in traffic you’re screwed. Why in the world would anyone want to make a hundred different story events for players to enjoy, but each of them only available for 2 weeks?

And even if you did manage to enjoy all of some temp content, and it was your favorite stuff you’ve ever done in the game…it’s still gone for good in a few days. What in the wide, wide, world of sports were they trying to accomplish with that? The only thing I can think of is bitter sentimentality.

Even so, it’s a game that’s supposed to be entertaining. Some of your favorite movies you’ll watch over and over and over and still get enjoyment out of it. It’s the same with games. If you like certain aspects of the game, you’ll spend most of your time there. What is so hard about having both options: continue advancing the storyline, yet keep a lot of the things you’ve done in-game as an option to revisit…at least for alts…or as a personal instance…or something.

This diehard insistence on temporary content is mind-boggling.

To add: No I wouldn’t want to watch my child being born everyday…in person. But I’d certainly want to watch it on video every now and then to remind myself how joyous that moment was. Even 9/11, I would watch again(and have btw) if only to remind myself of how fragile and precious our freedoms are in America. It’s a good thing to be able to remind yourself of that by revisiting it. Replayability of storyline events in games is essentially the same idea, if on a much more casual scale.

Very simply put, you’re not supposed to do everything. They are trying to do something different. They aren’t trying to be like every other game out there. You don’t like it, that’s fine. You want a ‘living’ world that is not actually living, and that’s ok, but that’s not what they are striving for.

And yes, as I said… a historian or some such in game, to rewatch cut scenes etc. Similarly to how we have books and videos in real life.

I play games to complete my own personal goals I set for myself in them. As a completionist by nature, this usually entails trying to do just about everything in order to reach my standard of “completed”, which encompasses:

- Doing all PvE content
- Outfitting my characters in a look that I like (which doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive gear)
- Acquiring all achievements in game modes I play (which basically just excludes PvP and WvW achievements)

The last tends to cause me the most problems, especially since some past chapters of the Living Story forced me into game modes I wouldn’t normally set foot in.

Zaxares.5419:

I play games to complete my own personal goals I set for myself in them. As a completionist by nature, this usually entails trying to do just about everything in order to reach my standard of “completed”, which encompasses:

- Doing all PvE content
- Outfitting my characters in a look that I like (which doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive gear)
- Acquiring all achievements in game modes I play (which basically just excludes PvP and WvW achievements)

The last tends to cause me the most problems, especially since some past chapters of the Living Story forced me into game modes I wouldn’t normally set foot in.

I used to be like you, but I tailor my game play style to the game I’m playing. I don’t need achievements I don’t need. Particularly now that you can get meta achievements by doing dailies, anyone can get a meta, which is the reward for an event. I simply switched from being an ultra completionist to getting the metas.

I’ll even get the WvW meta, which I didn’t think I would, but I only need 15 more camps to do it, so I might as well.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been thinking a lot about the complaints I’ve seen on the forums about grind, both gear and achievement grind. And I believe that most people playing would say they’d like less grind. But we also know that Anet has access to various metrics which show what people are playing.

I guess the question is: how many people are actually going to participate in content they don’t enjoy just to get a specific reward and how viable is that situation for the long term health of the game.

For example, I did all the content in Kessex, because I want a skill node in my home instance. I didn’t however, enjoy following the zerg train there, I did it to get it over with.

Now, Anet might look at that and think, wow, that’s great, we have all these people doing this content, we’ve done well. But how many people doing the content actually like or want to do it? And is that part of what Anet is counting when they count how many people are for/against a specific type of content.

I think this is a question worth asking.

Edit: For the record, I think the instance leading into the chapter of the Living World is one of the best yet. It introduces the situation, gives me some perspective and a chance to face the creatures, and a cool new atmosphere in an existing area. That much I really liked.

i like the intro instance too!

as for the actual content, they are not too bad.
but it is not something i would do everyday.

just once for the sake of achievements.
once all achievements done, i’m outta there.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

But why would you want to mimic the real world? Does taking away content which people would love to repeat really make the gane more interesting?

Good topic.

Yes, I play content I don’t enjoy. Why?

-I am a completionist, to an extent. I like to have everything completed. This is something Im working on combating within myself here.
-Its the ‘thing’ to do…for example living story. Everyone is talking about it, I see people running around with the new skins. I want them to.
-For the AP, sadly
-Because if I went into my favorite zones, I would be the only person there. The only zones that have a substantial amount of people in them are Queensdale/Frostgorge, and wherever the living story takes us.

Sadly, a lot of what I want is tied to things I dont want to do.I would rather see and experience every dynamic event in the game because I think that is where this game shines. But I know I would be alone for 90% of it.

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

But why would you want to mimic the real world? Does taking away content which people would love to repeat really make the gane more interesting?

I have the same question (why mimic the real world) about lots of things and always get slapped down (sometimes by you). People want to mimic the real world because it improves the game for them. Keeps things fresh.

Simple question, simple answer:

Why do people play content they don’t enjoy?

They do this to get to content they do enjoy.

Dahkeus.8243:

Simple question, simple answer:

Why do people play content they don’t enjoy?

They do this to get to content they do enjoy.

The funniest thing about this is that ANet made statements over statements telling they won’t make us do stuff we don’t enjoy, in order to get that minimum amount of awesome before starting all over again…

Anyway, back in topic, i may play content i don’t really enjoy in order achieve something in game, but when i have to do that every 2 weeks because the average quality of the new “content” is crappy to say the least (in my opinion obviously… Don’t jump on my throat please), then there’s a problem… That’s why i basically quit with the release of ascendant weapons.
Because by playing casually (really casually, like 1 or 2 hours per day, and not every day, not the “from dawn till dusk with pauses for eat and sleep” kind of casually), one year after the release i basically did every content in game more than once, and redoing and regrind the same old content in order to get the new shiny… Well, let’s say i leave this to the “most dedicated players”…

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, a lot of what I want is tied to things I dont want to do.

Welcome to the world of MMO’s. An MMO is a bunch of leveling content (in GW2, most of the DE’s you like) that people speed through as fast as possible (and then ignore) to get to the portion of the game that contains the rewards. Levels ensure that incentives (rewards) obtained during leveling are useless at max level, so the true reward hunt starts at max, hence the rush to get there. At least in GW2, skins obtained while leveling can still be viable at max.

Even the best gaming content gets tedious once players repeat it many times, and MMO’s often do not contain the best gaming content to begin with. It’s hard to say at what point in MMO history the idea of tying rewards to repetitive content became institutionalized, but at this point both developers and consumers are firmly tied into this cycle.

ANet tried to put a foot outside this box, but a segment of the community set them straight. Hence the design of new content. The Living World is about feeding the endgame reward hunt, and every time ANet adds something for the “want more challenge” or “want more fun content” crowds the majority of players let them know they won’t repeat that content unless there are better rewards associated with it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obsidian.1328:

^

Seriously, I want to know.

Why in the heck is all of this stuff temporary? Replayability is the lifeblood of these kinds of games. Mini-quests and holiday festivals are expected to be temporal, but when the main storyline stops being something you have access to…what the heck is the point? The LS is slowly but surely eclipsing the PS in terms of relevance…and it’s 100% temporary?

I just don’t get it. A “living, breathing world” is great, but at least, at least, make it something you can revisit.

Because they are trying to mimic the living world. To make their world feel alive.

You’re every day life is your main story…. do your events last forever? Do you have a birthday party every day? Do you watch your child being born repeatedly, day after day (I’d feel so sorry for that woman). Conversely would you want to have to relive the planes flying into the twin towers, and then watch those towers fall every day? Since, not all events are necessarily ‘happy’ moments.

We do not live in an unending, never changing loop. We cannot ‘revisit’ our pasts, except in memory. From my understanding, this is the goal ANet is striving for. To create a ‘living’ world, similar to the real world. As such, events will come and go. Some should leave behind significant changes…some should leave behind subtle changes. All should leave some memory with the player.

Have they achieved this goal yet? No, they have lots of work to do.

Are they getting there? Little by little, I feel.

Could we use some type of historian? Sure.

Just as we have books, and videos, etc to help us remember in the real world, I could easily see something similar in the game. Manuscripts written by priory scholars, npcs we could talk to to trigger cut scenes or dialog to fill us in on what’s happened.

That’s ridiculous.

That kind of thinking comes with the GIANT caveat that you have the time to fully do everything. What is this adherence to trying to emulate real-life chronology? You’re supposed to be able to revisit things you like. That’s why these games are so cool…because they aren’t like real-life where if you miss a deadline or get stuck in traffic you’re screwed. Why in the world would anyone want to make a hundred different story events for players to enjoy, but each of them only available for 2 weeks?

And even if you did manage to enjoy all of some temp content, and it was your favorite stuff you’ve ever done in the game…it’s still gone for good in a few days. What in the wide, wide, world of sports were they trying to accomplish with that? The only thing I can think of is bitter sentimentality.

Even so, it’s a game that’s supposed to be entertaining. Some of your favorite movies you’ll watch over and over and over and still get enjoyment out of it. It’s the same with games. If you like certain aspects of the game, you’ll spend most of your time there. What is so hard about having both options: continue advancing the storyline, yet keep a lot of the things you’ve done in-game as an option to revisit…at least for alts…or as a personal instance…or something.

This diehard insistence on temporary content is mind-boggling.

To add: No I wouldn’t want to watch my child being born everyday…in person. But I’d certainly want to watch it on video every now and then to remind myself how joyous that moment was. Even 9/11, I would watch again(and have btw) if only to remind myself of how fragile and precious our freedoms are in America. It’s a good thing to be able to remind yourself of that by revisiting it. Replayability of storyline events in games is essentially the same idea, if on a much more casual scale.

Very simply put, you’re not supposed to do everything. They are trying to do something different. They aren’t trying to be like every other game out there. You don’t like it, that’s fine. You want a ‘living’ world that is not actually living, and that’s ok, but that’s not what they are striving for.

And yes, as I said… a historian or some such in game, to rewatch cut scenes etc. Similarly to how we have books and videos in real life.

But it’s not real…

All of this is make believe and should be taken as such. Trying to make it adhere to all the rules of real life is folly. We play these games because they are fun and entertain us. We don’t play them because they are alternate realities…if you are, you might need to get some fresh air.

If a game sacrifices an insanely obvious convenience mechanic like story replayability for the sake of staying “chronological” or w/e, ANet might to get some fresh air…

Hmm, for me it’s all about progression and motion. I’ll do something that I don’t enjoy (for a while anyway) if it moves me towards a goal. If I feel it’s a productive use of my time then ok. If i feel I’m getting nowhere then it’s a grind.

I don’t highly object to any of the content. Some content is better than other content. example-I don’t really care for the personal story after trahearne shows up. However if I am leveling a toon and the XP reward justifies it =I’ll do it.

The only other reason i would not like content is if it’s needlessly hard. Orr comes to mind with too many spawns and controll effects.