Guild Wars 2

The main problem is Anet stupid system of the 1st always being green, 2nd always red and 3rd always blue.

Being at SoS (since headstart) , i would be seeing only green or red. Fortunately i have already done 2 completion while SoS is climbing up but i still want it for my other characters.

Erasculio.2914:

CorruptedSave.2570:

You are taking the stance that since it currently is, it means it is absolutely correct and cannot be at fault and the burden of proof is on the person opposing it.

No. I’m reading that some people would like to see a feature to be changed and I’m asking why do they think that change should happen.

So far, the main argument has been “I can do most of map completition on PvE, so that means map completition is a PvE activity”. To which I can easily reply – no, to complete the map you need to play WvW, so it’s not a PvE only activity. To the following question – why should map completition be changed to be a PvE activity, something it isn’t right now – so far there has been no answer. People haven’t answered even why do they want to have map completition if they don’t want to complete the map.

“Reasons” to change the map completion achievement.

1) In GW1 “map completion” (i.e., the explorer titles) was an entirely PvE activity. Areas like the Realm of Torment, Fissure of Woe, and Underworld, were not included. Nor were the PvP areas in the Mists. WvW takes place in the Mists, which is not a part of the world. In other words, the map completion achievement includes areas that are not actually on the map of Tyria.

2) Creating a separate completion achievement for PvE and PvPvE benefits players. The people who want to do it all, get more for doing it all. The ones who are currently not intending to do the achievement get to do the one they want — whether that be the PvE or PvPvE one. All games need more for people at cap to do. The current design is discouraging a subset of players from doing the achievement.

3) I won’t speak to others’ motivations in asking for a separation, but mine are not to get something for nothing. As it is, I will not be completing the achievement. I’d prefer it if there was an explore achievement I was interested in, and that’s what I’m asking for.

I really wish they would answer this question with a “yes”. No matter how easy some may have found it to accomplish, it still doesn’t change the fact that it is a horrible design decision.

Why should wvw be excluded? World exploration reward is used to craft legendaries. You have to fight in wvw to get tokens to craft legendaries. You have to play both sides of the game. Get over it. Want pve only? Great! World exploration isnt just a pve thing. Thats that.

As a fully PVE player , Due to my slow internet, i have never been able to actually kill a single player in PVP or WvW and am constantly being killed without even seeing the person. Therefore get rid of the FORCED WvW for map completion. It makes playing the game as a Monthly or a Map completion unfair to those of us with slow connections and a total lack of care for PvP

1/ WvW is a PVE map with PVP components, or rather, a gank map. As such, completing it is a necessary part of completing PVE.

2/ a group of 5-10 people can easily hunt all vista and POI in off-time. Get yourself a guild or organize something on your server forum. Even if you’re bad in WvW, a modicum of organization trumps all. A 10 man group on teamspeak can crush a 50 man zerg without troubles. If you treat it as a hard dungeon you can complete WvW without fighting a single human.

3/ 100% completion has to be hard, and to some that means vistas, to other it means time and to others it means WvW. We can’t scrap all now can we?

Kain.9127:

Why should wvw be excluded? World exploration reward is used to craft legendaries. You have to fight in wvw to get tokens to craft legendaries. You have to play both sides of the game. Get over it. Want pve only? Great! World exploration isnt just a pve thing. Thats that.

Your argument about legendaries is completely irrelevant. You can collect tokens in WvWvW all day long and NEVER visit all the map. And besides, many people who have no desire to craft legendaries consider 100% map completion a worthy accomplishment in and of itself. The two goals are not as intertwined as you think they are.

“World exploration isnt just a pve thing. Thats that.” I think you’re mistaking opinion for fact, eh? WvWvW, sPvP and Dungeons are special areas that aren’t really on the map of Tyria. Visiting sPvP areas and Dungeon runs aren’t required for map completion, why should WvWvW areas be any different?

This is especially true as your ability to get to certain areas on the WvWvW maps is completely out of your hands. While some points require a group effort on the regular map, they’re not completely impossible, but that’s exactly the case in WvWvW, if you’re on the ‘wrong’ server, no matter how good your ‘group’ is. Server switching and like strategies should not be necessary for map completion. And that’s a fact, Jack!

Farming Flats.5370:

All POI and Vista are doable solo .. even in Orr and it’s easy. But for the ones in WvW you can’t do them without going to others servers.

I did, I haven’t transfered server and have 100% completion.

Erasculio.2914:

Halanna.3927:

It isn’t that it’s terribly difficult, but it is time consuming and to force a PvP aspect into a PvE activity doesn’t make much sense to me.

Map completition isn’t a PvE only activity,

And do you know why I can prove that? Because you need to complete the WvW map in order to get full map completition.

Considering how no one is forcing you to get 100% map completition, you get rewards for completing each PvE map, and if you want a Legendary you already need 500 Badges of Honor… There simply isn’t an issue here.

Pretty much, the only benefit for world completion is 2 items used only in crafting a legendary which require you to do wvw anyway to get the badges of honor so it’s pretty pointless to complain about it

Amos.8760:

Kyosji.8961:

I seriously don’t understand how people are having such a hard time with this. I’ve been able to do it multiple times on multiple characters, and usually when our side is in last place in the WvW map.

In my personal experience, most people I’ve talked to with this complaint in-game haven’t actually attempted to complete WvW zones yet. They open their maps, see they don’t control something, and don’t even try. When I did my map completion, I had to discover zones behind enemy lines. After a few deaths, I got it done just by running in, using some defensive skills and dodges, and running away.

Those are easy. Unfortunately, you can’t do that to poi’s/vistas in keeps/garrison until your side holds that structure.

And as for waiting till next week… this works if you are in the middle of the scale. If you are either at the top or bottom, changing position doesn’t happen often (and if you are top server, you actually wouldn’t even want that to happen )

It can be done (as i know from experience), but often requires acting in a way that is at best not helpful (and sometimes actually hurtful) to your server.

Which is why (this @Erasculio) it isn’t WvW activity at all – it requires you to act in a way that is different than the one beneficial to your side’s WvW goals. In some cases you just are a waste, non-participant that takes valuable slot away from WvW players. In other, it encourages active griefing.

gennyt.3428:

They’ve kept PvE and PvP separate in this game. Last I checked, no other PvP map has anything to do with map completion

Nope. sPvP has been kept separate, but WvW and PvE have been kept together. In sPvP you have a different equipment system and different items than the ones used in PvE, while PvE and WvW share the same equipment. In sPvP characters have a specific traits allocation, but it’s shared between PvE and WvW. In sPvP, skills are balanced differently, and racial skills are not allowed; PvE and WvW not only share the same balance, but also all skills available for PvE are available in WvW.

Perhaps more importantly for this discussion, sPvP has its own daily and monthly achievements, apart from everything else. Meanwhile, PvE and WvW share the same daily and monthly achievements; in fact, the monthly achievements available for PvE players require participation in WvW. Also, as mentioned in your example, no sPvP map is required for world completition, while all WvW maps are required for world completition.

Considering how PvE and WvW are linked for everything else, including other achievements, why should ArenaNet split both in a single achievement and make world map to be distinct between them?

gennyt.3428:

You’ve been getting answers

Yes. From you, answers which I can prove to be wrong, as seen above.

Astralporing.1957:

Which is why (this @Erasculio) it isn’t WvW activity at all – it requires you to act in a way that is different than the one beneficial to your side’s WvW goals.

I disagree. Based on this quote:

Astralporing.1957:

Those are easy. Unfortunately, you can’t do that to poi’s/vistas in keeps/garrison until your side holds that structure.

In order to get 100% map completition, you need to either wait, not knowing if one day your world will get those areas, or go get them yourself together with other players. In other words, 100% map completition helps to give incentives for players to capture structures for their world, even if the only reason they want to capture it is to get the PoI inside.

ArenaNet has gone out of their way to make WvW as friendly as possible to PvE players, and they keep giving PvE players incentives to go to WvW (see the monthly achievements for another exmple). Map completition isn’t an anomaly outside everything else in the game; it’s one more among many other links between PvE and WvW.

As mentioned above Orr is totally soloable… there may be a few skill points that are more difficult but it’s far from impossible. As for WvW, there are such things called weekly rotations. So you should have plenty of chance to get your pois/skillpoints etc if you spread it out over the weeks.

The only relevant point as to why WvW should not be part of world completion is because it makes PvE only players take up slots that WvW players could be using. These PvE only players then proceed to NOT play WvW, because all they want is to get the POI’s, Vista’s and Skill Points. The same is true for Badges of Honor. You have people flocking to the Jumping Puzzles to get badges, just so they can get their legendary. These people have no interest in helping your world win, they simply go from point to point getting what they need, then disappear. If there is a battle going on, these players do not stick around to help, they simply run off to get the next POI/Vista/SP/JP.

If none of these things impacted on how many players were actually helping in the fight, I wouldn’t have any issue with them at all. But they do.

Ersasculio has hit the nail on the head. WvWvW is part of the PvE world not the PvP world. Yes you can fight other players there but it is still part of the PvE world.

The game is split in 2 – WvWvW/PvE —- SPvP

This is why it is part of the world map completion achievement.

Kandrick.8054:

Ersasculio has hit the nail on the head. WvWvW is part of the PvE world not the PvP world. Yes you can fight other players there but it is still part of the PvE world.

The game is split in 2 – WvWvW/PvE —- SPvP

This is why it is part of the world map completion achievement.

Personally I think the game is split into 3: WvW / PvE / PvP

Also, what do you fight the most of in WvW? I am pretty sure that for most people who go there to actually play WvW will fight 90% players and 10% mobs. To me, WvW is a PvP game with some PvE extras through in for variety. Yes, it is a PvPvE game, but it is clearly dominated by PvP. It is very unlikely you will win WvW by only doing PvE, but you can definitely win by only doing PvP. And the point many are trying to make is that for a PvE only player WvW is just not for them because it is predominantly PvP based.

Not that the above is any reason to stop WvW being part of 100%, as the only reason I want it changed is because of my previous post. I just wanted to highlight that WvW is so much more PvP then PvE, it is easy to see why many feel it is only PvP.

marnick.4305:

1/ WvW is a PVE map with PVP components, or rather, a gank map. As such, completing it is a necessary part of completing PVE.

2/ a group of 5-10 people can easily hunt all vista and POI in off-time. Get yourself a guild or organize something on your server forum. Even if you’re bad in WvW, a modicum of organization trumps all. A 10 man group on teamspeak can crush a 50 man zerg without troubles. If you treat it as a hard dungeon you can complete WvW without fighting a single human.

3/ 100% completion has to be hard, and to some that means vistas, to other it means time and to others it means WvW. We can’t scrap all now can we?

#1: “Necessary” is in the eye of beholder, eh? I, for one, don’t feel that “ganking” has a legitimate place in map completion. Especially if said “ganking” makes it impossible to visit all areas of the map.

#2: You must be on a really weak server to get opponents like that. In my experience, if you’re outnumbered 5-1, you’re going to get wiped, teamspeak or not. Then again, I’m on a top 5 server in the WvWvW rankings, so I guess your mileage could vary. Actually….that’s a pretty good argument against counting WvWvW maps against map completion. If you’re on a server with a weak opponent, it’s possible to get a group together and steamroller your way to areas that a stronger server wouldn’t let you near.

#3: I’m not terribly fond of strawman arguments. NOBODY is saying “scrap it all”. Hard is hard, but hard isn’t supposed to mean impossible.

FWiW I have always (since beta) been an advocate of removing the PvE elements from WvWvW. Vistas, PoI, jumping puzzles, nodes and such simply due to players being in the maps for stuff other than helping the server in their war effort and taking up valuable limited places.

Rin > As for the 3 seperate parts my reasoning on PvE and WvW being one and the same (as considered by developers) is there being only 2 dailies. One for SPvP and one shared between PvE/WvW. This plus you take along your current skillset and armour. As well as containing all the other stuff a PvE map has such as events, mobs, nodes, vistas, jumping puzzles etc. It is a PvE map where World PvP is allowed, still makes it a PvE map and thus makes sense it is part of the PvE world completion.

Not arguing against it being removed from world completion but if they do that they should go the whole hog and remove ALL the PvE elements fromt he maps at the same time and add a third seperate WvW daily.

I played a lot of W3 during the first few months and it’s quite galling to wait in a queue for EB for an hour, finally getting in and finding people just mining and killing mobs and searching for vistas and such that have been keeping you out of the fight.

Kandrick.8054:

…snip…

I was merely pointing out why people feel it is PvP only. The devs can add all sorts of PvE elements to WvW, but all the while it is mostly won by PvP activity it will be seen as a PvP game by PvE only players.

I completely agree with you on both your points though. Technically (due to achievements, etc.) WvW is both PvP and PvE. And like you say, having to queue because some PvE players are not taking part in WvW is not a good thing. And this is the only issue that should be addressed imo.

Kandrick.8054:

Ersasculio has hit the nail on the head. WvWvW is part of the PvE world not the PvP world. Yes you can fight other players there but it is still part of the PvE world.

The game is split in 2 – WvWvW/PvE —- SPvP

This is why it is part of the world map completion achievement.

I have to disagree. You’ve got the split in the wrong place, WvWvW is not part of the PvE world. Sure, it has PvE elements, but nowhere on the regular map of Tyria do other players prevent you from reaching your objectives. I think that is the defining difference between the two.

Besides, this is supposed to be “map completion”, right? Get out your map of Tyria and point out to me where the WvWvW area is, why don’t you? Game. Set. Match.

I can agree the achievement and title can be considered ‘map completion’ although the game defines map completion as region specific, but the gift of exploration definatly requires WvW, really pretty clear

TobyTucker.5317:

Besides, this is supposed to be “map completion”, right? Get out your map of Tyria and point out to me where the WvWvW area is, why don’t you? Game. Set. Match.

You could argue that the mists ARE part of Tyria. But then you could also ask why is the heart of the mists not included? I think the defining factor of world complete is that it is a PvE title, because 90% of it is acquired in PvE and it not included in sPvP at all.

My solution to the WvW 100% problem, if they are not going to remove WvW from the achievement, would be to allow players to get POI’s and Vista’s without needing to capture towers, etc. For example, move the POI’s to the gate of each tower so a player must run up to the door to get it but doesn’t have to go inside. Then move all vistas out of towers. The problem with POI’s and Vista’s being in towers is that PvE players who want these things are generally not in groups and are, most of the time, on their own. So they have no hope of getting them. And if that location is not strategically important no one is going to help them just to get a poi/vista. So, the sooner they can get them the sooner they leave WvW and allow an actual WvW player in.

As to the JP issue, just remove badges from it’s reward and only reward them for defeating players, then at least players who want a legendary have to help out to get what they want. If you need to master all areas of the game to get a legendary then how is doing a jumping puzzle supposed to represent you have helped in WvW? If WvW experience is supposed to be part of getting a legendary then make them fight for it, not jump for it.

I think the problem is, Anet has tried to add PvE only elements into WvW, but it is impacting on the PvP side of things. If it didn’t effect PvP, and visa versa, I would be perfectly ok with it.

Another issue with this is that Anet keeps claiming that we can play the game our way, but this kind of content does not fit that paradigm. PvE only players that want a legendary weapon have to do WvW and visa versa. Players who want the 100% achievement and it’s corresponding points have to go into areas they may not enjoy. So I fail to see how these things fit the ‘playing our way’ phylosophy. That said, they are optional so you don’t have to get them. But because most people love shinies and achievements, they take up slots which prevent other players from ‘playing their way’.

I’d like to recommend a compromise.
As an Early Access player, I was able to get my world completion in the first two weeks of release, and within those two weeks, world transfers weren’t just free; they were instant.
I acknowledge that this wasn’t really in the spirit of the achievement, and I’m actually quite enjoying watching the WvW maps now in order to grab those last few bits of EB in order to get a second star for my account.

However, I also think that there is something ArenaNet could do to make world exploration a lot more palatable to people, especially those who can’t stand WvW.
Don’t drop Wuvwuv map completion from the achievement, but move all vistas, PoIs and skill points out of keeps/towers and into the open world so that they are attainable without having to capture that point for your world first.

Personally, I’m happy with it the way it is, and it adds a longer term goal to my character, but I think the compromise outlined above would be acceptable.

Kain.9127:

Why should wvw be excluded? World exploration reward is used to craft legendaries. You have to fight in wvw to get tokens to craft legendaries. You have to play both sides of the game. Get over it. Want pve only? Great! World exploration isnt just a pve thing. Thats that.

you don’t have to fight anyone in WvW to get the badges needed for legendary.
The video’s proving it are up on youtube.
Just create a new toon…. run to jumping puzzle get mesmer friend to port you all round the puzzle….. collect badges…drop in stash…. delete toon….make new one…. rinse and repeat…
So you see. NOTHING legendary about that and another reason why WvW shouldn’t be linked to getting legendary either.
I got my 100% map completion on my first lvl 80 a long while ago and i used to sneak into WvW at 2 am in the morning my time and run around avoiding other players until i got all of them.
I saw a lot of others in there trying the same or just standing around waiting in safe areas waiting for places to come free. All of this annoying the hell out of the PvP’ers as we take up space that ’’real’’ PvP’ers could have used.
Im doing the same now on my 2nd lvl 80… im taking up space in WvW.. im doing NOTHING to help with fighting other players or capturing castles/keeps etc, it doesnt interest me. im just doing it for map completion.

I know some of the pains you mention. I’m from Fow, in the Eu lowest trier, and we never got to be green since the start of the one week WvW battles. In fact we were red first for 1-2 months then tuned blue and have been blue ever since (but will be red next week unless a miracle happens since we now face far superior servers thanks to all the free transfers that now finally will end ). Despite this i managed to get world completions for multiple characters in WvW. Usually at some time during the day/week/month, your server will probably be able to capture the point that you need, so keep watch of WvW and try to run in as soon as you have a some what higher score to grab the points. WvW map completion is usually not something you can just do in 1-2 hours, it takes time to wait for the right moment.

An other thing that i also like to do (As WvW commander) is to assist in points capping by leading a group into one of the other borderlands and grab one or two towers/keeps so players can get their poi’s. usually an large group that brings supplies and works together can take a tower or keep down before the defenders can respond in force to stop you.

an other thing you can do, specially if you have access to stealth skills and increased movement speed, is to sneak in after an other server breaks a keep/tower door and quickly grab the poi/vista and run out again. Do not use this to get vista’s in the eternal battle ground keeps as they require quite a bit of jumping and are therefore hard to take fast.

I can however see that it can be really nasty for PvE players that really dislike the WvW setting. To help speed things up, it would at least be good if the colors rotated more often, so you are able to capture things more easy.

For now all i can recommend it start the WvW map completion early and try to find helpfull players willing to assist you and at least one with wvw experience to lead a more complex attack. Be however prepared to pay the armor repair bill and willing to spend on siege equipment really helps as well (ask the WvW players on what to get and how to use, or donate it to them so they put it up).

I think it was a mistake to put PvE elements in the WvW maps. If you were to remove all of these, the nodes, vistas, etc, how would it effect WvW play? NOT ONE BIT! You could make a good argument that it would actually improve things as there wouldn’t be any PvE people wandering around, not contributing anything to the main effort while denying a spot to someone who is interested only in WvW.

I like the idea of moving the vistas, etc, to more accessible positions, but I’m not sure how feasible that is. My suggestion is to leave them where they are, but don’t make them required for the map completion achievement. Leave that to completing the regular map, but create a new WvW explorer achievement for those who can actually manage it. This would make the 100% map completion a purely PvE achievement, removing a lot of frustration for those players while giving the ambitious a little bit extra to aim for, if they are so inclined.

i hated the idea of wvw and so left this part of my 100% map completion to the end.
However when i finally came to doing it i found i quite enjoyed it and often found my myself joining wvw just for fun.
I’ve waited now for 6 weeks for my very last bit i need its 1 poi in bottom corner in blue area. Ive been red 4 times and green twice.
Yer its a nightmare not having the last poi but patience is a virtue and ive had a lot of fun trying to get it.
Hope the Friday night reset we are blue next week lol
So i say leave wvw for map completion, at least you get to see a part of the game that otherwise would have been missed (at least by me)

TobyTucker.5317:

I think it was a mistake to put PvE elements in the WvW maps. If you were to remove all of these, the nodes, vistas, etc, how would it effect WvW play? NOT ONE BIT!

then i couldn’t complete my daily achievement without leaving WvW, so i know a lot of people who would not like that, so there’s that

Medazolam.3058:

TobyTucker.5317:

I think it was a mistake to put PvE elements in the WvW maps. If you were to remove all of these, the nodes, vistas, etc, how would it effect WvW play? NOT ONE BIT!

then i couldn’t complete my daily achievement without leaving WvW, so i know a lot of people who would not like that, so there’s that

As this game obviously has three different parts to it I see no reason why we cannot have 3 daily achievements. That said, with the upcomming changes to daily achievements, it may well be that we can pick and choose what to do, and stay in whatever part of the game we like. So nodes and such could be removed.

Not that I think nodes should be removed, as materials are used for crafting armour and stuff, so these things are kind of needed. Also, they are easy enough to get while you are doing other stuff in WvW and PvE players don’t (to my knowledge) go there just to gather nodes.

Medazolam.3058:

TobyTucker.5317:

I think it was a mistake to put PvE elements in the WvW maps. If you were to remove all of these, the nodes, vistas, etc, how would it effect WvW play? NOT ONE BIT!

then i couldn’t complete my daily achievement without leaving WvW, so i know a lot of people who would not like that, so there’s that

All the people who have used random mobs to rally and kill me after would beg to differ. Also, it’s hard enough to get money playing WvW only so nodes are much appreciated thank you.

People have made the point that if you do not want to go for a Legendary then you do not need 100% World Map completion which is completely true. It gives you nothing else in game besides a Star by your name. If you are doing it for the Legendary then you will also have to collect 500 badges to do so.

If you think, as someone above posted, that you can get 500 badges without ever fighting someone in WvW you are highly mistaken. You are not going to get 500 badgses from puzzles and never see anyone that will not want to stomp you.

I also pointed out a work around that although not easy will get you the POIs and Vistas that are difficult.

So there is no need to argue this any further until someone comes up with a better reason than , “I do not like PvP”.

PS..I completed my 100% while in T1-T2 on IoJ as well so the argument that T1-T2 cannot be completed is also a false statement.

Gbok.1039:

So there is no need to argue this any further until someone comes up with a better reason than , “I do not like PvP”.

PvE players taking up WvW player slots and not playing WvW? This was posted above.

Oh another thing that doesn’t help; all of the Borderlands maps are identical.
I’m sure people wouldn’t complain so much if either:

1: Completing one Borderlands map counted as completing all of them

or

2: Each Borderlands map was very different from the others. Of course, with differences in terrain, people are bound to complain about imbalances, but I think it’s worth pursuing.

When I was doing my first star, I was completely confused by all the Borderlands maps being the same and couldn’t understand why a vista I had done was suddenly marked as undiscovered. When I realised what was going on, there was a sense of disappointment at the lack of creativity shown by the developers. Having different Borderlands maps, preferably on a per server basis, would help foster a sense of server and community identity.

For example, my server is Ring of Fire, so a Borderlands map consisting of volcanic islands akin to the Ring of Fire islands in the first game would make sense.
Henge of Denravi could have an area reminiscent of the Maguuma jungle; Gunnar’s Hold a classic snowy, mountainous Norn area.

Having areas unique to servers would further kindle excitement about exploration with new worlds becoming available on a weekly basis. I’m not saying you should have to explore them all (impractical given the tiered ranking system); say only 3 of all possible Borderlands. But improved variety would drastically improve things.

Gbok.1039:

PS..I completed my 100% while in T1-T2 on IoJ as well so the argument that T1-T2 cannot be completed is also a false statement.

How about it can’t be completed in SOS specifically. Have they even been red before? And even if it is possible do we really have to wait month to do it. Or check wvw every day, every hour? You know waiting for the queue time already take a long time.

Even if possible, it is “highly unlikely”. T1-T2 means you actually changed place. Can someone fill me in if SOS or JQ ever even get knock in T2? Or have they even been red before.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Mr eX.3420:

The real solution here is to make team color assignment random, so that each week you have a chance of getting to the mapping points near the team spawns without relying on your team dominating the map.

No! Not random -> ROTATION!

I agree that this should not be part of the map completion process (unless rotation is added).

Have to disagree. It took me a month to do my WvW mapping, popping in on a near-daily basis to snag PoI’s and Vistas I was missing. I was able to snag some of the keeps and towers that were right outside of hostile spawn points without switching servers. My last couple were earned at the start of a matchup when my team switched colors.

WvW mapping is not terribly different from the Legendary Priests camping the temples in Orr, making it impossible to commune the skill points without help. Maybe you’ll get lucky and the temples will be uncontested at the right moment, but if not, you should participate and earn your keep. That’s why I think random color assignment is the best solution.

How would this rotation work anyway? There are matchup changes every week, so it’s not clear to me how they would rotate the colors in a way that’s fair to everyone.

marnick.4305:

2/ a group of 5-10 people can easily hunt all vista and POI in off-time. Get yourself a guild or organize something on your server forum. Even if you’re bad in WvW, a modicum of organization trumps all. A 10 man group on teamspeak can crush a 50 man zerg without troubles. If you treat it as a hard dungeon you can complete WvW without fighting a single human.

Really? 5 – 10 people can get them all? Show me any time that 5 – 10 people on JQ can take an SoS keep deep in EB…

Maybe in your terrible tier with terrible players you can crush a 50 man zerg with 10 people. Certainly not in T1.

Every single person in this thread arguing to keep it in ignores the simple fact that a rotation of colors is the best way to go. Half the people arguing for it’s removal, actually like PvP so stop with that stupid argument. The issue is that some areas will never be able to be taken and if they happen to get taken, you better be on for the 5 minutes you own it.

Maybe we should require all the PvPers to become a dungeon master for their legendary as well? Watch the kittenstorm that would cause…

Mr eX.3420:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Mr eX.3420:

The real solution here is to make team color assignment random, so that each week you have a chance of getting to the mapping points near the team spawns without relying on your team dominating the map.

No! Not random -> ROTATION!

I agree that this should not be part of the map completion process (unless rotation is added).

My last couple were earned at the start of a matchup when my team switched colors.

I’m on your server and you completely contradict yourself. You are against rotating colors, however, the ONLY reason you finished was because your team switched colors? /boggle

As much as rotating colours may help players get 100%, it doesn’t stop players taking up WvW slots to not play WvW.

Rin.1046:

As much as rotating colours may help players get 100%, it doesn’t stop players taking up WvW slots to not play WvW.

ya but I think all this is done to “get people to try WvW” and hope they like it.

Just like someone said, I have no intention to do WvW. But after I tried it, I do enjoy it to an extend. And from time to time I at least play my low level alt to do WvW instead of just grinding public quest.

Gbok.1039:

If you think, as someone above posted, that you can get 500 badges without ever fighting someone in WvW you are highly mistaken.

Yeah you can. Borderlands jumping puzzle on multiple characters plus the rewards from map exploration will get it done. But WvWvW is kinda fun, no reason not to at least join the zerg for a while to get a few extra.

I’m doing world completion now and have finished one of the zones – just ran around for an hour at an off-peak time. Getting the others is doable but I’m not sure it should really be a requirement. Map completion of the PvE map plus 500 badges of honor to make sure you at least try WvWvW is probably the right balance.

Rin.1046:

Gbok.1039:

So there is no need to argue this any further until someone comes up with a better reason than , “I do not like PvP”.

PvE players taking up WvW player slots and not playing WvW? This was posted above.

This is another BS excuse. How many PvE players do you really think are going to be taking up spots in WvW for days upon days. I highly doubt that many.

Would you be happy if they added a new separate achievement called ‘Peaceful Explorer’, a title of ‘been there.’, silver star next to your name (instead of gold), no gift of exploration awarded (just some exotic armor piece and the usual high level map rewards)? This would require only the non-WvW vistas, POIs and skill points.

Erasculio.2914:

People haven’t answered even why do they want to have map completition if they don’t want to complete the map.

Some want to have map completion and they completed the map, myself included. It took me a transfer to get a last POI, but I got it in the end.

This doesn’t mean that we think having PvE elements in PvP is a good design. I am personally against it.

Gbok.1039:

Rin.1046:

Gbok.1039:

So there is no need to argue this any further until someone comes up with a better reason than , “I do not like PvP”.

PvE players taking up WvW player slots and not playing WvW? This was posted above.

This is another BS excuse. How many PvE players do you really think are going to be taking up spots in WvW for days upon days. I highly doubt that many.

Count me as a PvE player taking up a WvW spot. I do my dailies in WvW and only attack someone if they come near.

Midnightjade.3520:

Gbok.1039:

If you think, as someone above posted, that you can get 500 badges without ever fighting someone in WvW you are highly mistaken.

Yeah you can. Borderlands jumping puzzle on multiple characters plus the rewards from map exploration will get it done. But WvWvW is kinda fun, no reason not to at least join the zerg for a while to get a few extra.

I’m doing world completion now and have finished one of the zones – just ran around for an hour at an off-peak time. Getting the others is doable but I’m not sure it should really be a requirement. Map completion of the PvE map plus 500 badges of honor to make sure you at least try WvWvW is probably the right balance.

I am sorry but I simply do not believe that you not once ever had to deal with someone of the opposite faction while doing the BL puzzles. It does not matter what you say..I just do not believe that.

I am not against having rotating colors as an option to help people get this completed. I have three more characters that will have to complete this as well.
I just think some of these excuses are poor ones at best.

laokoko.7403:

ya but I think all this is done to “get people to try WvW” and hope they like it.

Just like someone said, I have no intention to do WvW. But after I tried it, I do enjoy it to an extend. And from time to time I at least play my low level alt to do WvW instead of just grinding public quest.

I agree with this, but I’d rather they added ways to intice people into WvW without it having a detrimental effect on those that like to play it. Some of my guildies for example have joined me in WvW, but just don’t get on with it and only go there to get their world completion. I don’t blame them though, as they don’t really have a choice.

Perhaps an incentive can be added that requires some participation but does not take up a lot of time. So they can see what it is like, and if they do not like it they can quickly release their slot. And while they have been there they have at least been contributing in some way. As it is at the moment, it can be a very time consuming endeavour which means people have to wait ages for a slot to free up.

Gbok.1039:

Midnightjade.3520:

Gbok.1039:

If you think, as someone above posted, that you can get 500 badges without ever fighting someone in WvW you are highly mistaken.

Yeah you can. Borderlands jumping puzzle on multiple characters plus the rewards from map exploration will get it done. But WvWvW is kinda fun, no reason not to at least join the zerg for a while to get a few extra.

I’m doing world completion now and have finished one of the zones – just ran around for an hour at an off-peak time. Getting the others is doable but I’m not sure it should really be a requirement. Map completion of the PvE map plus 500 badges of honor to make sure you at least try WvWvW is probably the right balance.

I am sorry but I simply do not believe that you not once ever had to deal with someone of the opposite faction while doing the BL puzzles. It does not matter what you say..I just do not believe that.

Yes, of course I have had to deal with other factions while in WvWvW. Sometimes I actively zerg them for fun as a participant, while other times a Thief may try a gank as I run around doing map completion/JP (good luck with that against my Guardian – most of them just bounce off).

I really meant that you can get the badges while not actively contributing to your server’s WvWvW effort. Jumping puzzles and map completion will generate the badges and maybe a few deaths/kills from encountering opposition players en route but they don’t help your side capture territory or resources.

If WvW maps were part of the world, why can’t we see it on the map when you’re in Tyria. They are instances, like dungeons. Dungeons don’t count for the world completion, WvW maps shouldn’t either.

They aren’t part of Tyria.

Xaaz.8472:

I’m on your server and you completely contradict yourself. You are against rotating colors, however, the ONLY reason you finished was because your team switched colors? /boggle

As I said, it’s just like the Orr temples. Some I got lucky, some I had to work for. It’s not contradictory.

Honestly, I would have no problem with the map completion, if I didn’t have to do the same thing 3 times. It’s good, because I know where things are, but it gets very tedious, I feel. Especially if you’re also trying to play WvW at the same time. The way the game works, exploration can be difficult. For instance, there was a vista at one POI and I looked where it was. If I went to get it, I’d be abandonning my group. I’d guilty and they might get mad at me for it.

Exploration in the actual world is so much more relaxed, it feels.

I don’t mind having to do WvW for map completion. I do mind having to do the exact same map 3 times. I am not sure how many others feel this way, but it’d be nice to just have to complete the boarderlands ONCE and it covers all of them.

Gbok.1039:

Midnightjade.3520:

Gbok.1039:

If you think, as someone above posted, that you can get 500 badges without ever fighting someone in WvW you are highly mistaken.

Yeah you can. Borderlands jumping puzzle on multiple characters plus the rewards from map exploration will get it done. But WvWvW is kinda fun, no reason not to at least join the zerg for a while to get a few extra.

I’m doing world completion now and have finished one of the zones – just ran around for an hour at an off-peak time. Getting the others is doable but I’m not sure it should really be a requirement. Map completion of the PvE map plus 500 badges of honor to make sure you at least try WvWvW is probably the right balance.

I am sorry but I simply do not believe that you not once ever had to deal with someone of the opposite faction while doing the BL puzzles. It does not matter what you say..I just do not believe that.

I am not against having rotating colors as an option to help people get this completed. I have three more characters that will have to complete this as well.
I just think some of these excuses are poor ones at best.

Before i went off the idea of getting a legendary i used to do the jumping puzzles in WvW..
I only EVER killed ONE other player in all that time, and that was only because the guy kept attacking me {even though i wasn’t fighting back} and had asked him 2 times to stop. He didn’t so i killed him.
ALL other times a simple /Bow or /Wave in chat was enough to go through the puzzle uninterupted.
I gave up because people then started to abuse that, they would accept the /bow or /wave then attack anyway hoping to get and easy kill.
So i left the trolls and elitists to it and went and made myself reaver of the mists instead.