Q:
Will devs ever fix conditions?
Sure, but only if they also reduce the direct damage of atleast 50% against earth elementals, give fire elementals a burn aura that burns anyone that gets to close, and eletric sparks damage anyone that hits them with swords etc. everyone that hits a risen with a melee weapon gets poisend, getting bitten by a wolf should also give a 24h condition called “rabis” etc. etc. etc.
Also, nerf condition damage even more? its already pretty bad considering there is a 25stack cap and conditions cant crit. might aswell quit playing necros if suddenly half the mobs are imune to our abilities.
Yes, because conditions need to be worsened. Some logic they used for conditions (certain monsters having stability, but that’s more a property of the particular monster more than any “logic.”)
This is one of those gameplay > logic ideas. I’d love to be a full condition build, run into a pack of ghosts, and proceed to do no damage! /sarcasm
No need for that. Now if conditions would do a % damage to structures or have cond damage increase power by a % for structures, that would be nice.
Hilda thinks logically.
This is a probably an intended design choice by the developers, because if large number of enemies would be immune to some condition, this would even further deteriorate the effectiveness of condition based builds and weapons. Already direct damage rules mighty over the condition damage. Condition damage occurs more slowly over time and has a limit of 25 stacks max.
I know the Risen are undead and probably thus should be immune to bleed and same for golems, who are supposed to be robots. But imagine if the developers would suddenly make them immune to bleed. This would make e.g. warrior’s single hand sword even worse weapon than it currently is. And lead to even more warriors using the great sword, which is already by far the most popular weapon of choice. And maybe some people have heavily invested getting some cool-looking Legendary sword.
Deniara
Deniara / Ayna – I want the original WvWvW maps back – Desolation [EU]
Yes, because conditions need to be worsened. Some logic they used for conditions (certain monsters having stability, but that’s more a property of the particular monster more than any “logic.”)
This is one of those gameplay > logic ideas. I’d love to be a full condition build, run into a pack of ghosts, and proceed to do no damage! /sarcasm
No need for that. Now if conditions would do a % damage to structures or have cond damage increase power by a % for structures, that would be nice.
You’d always do damage regardless. Conditions are an additional effect. It would bring back a challenge in my opinion. Not Lolz bled and poisoned a ghost to death. It would definitely make AC less of a cakewalk then it is now for sure.
It’s a valid opinion just like yours is, there is no need for sarcasm.
I honestly wasn’t aware anyone ran condition builds in pve anymore, they’re horrible. It’s all about raw damage. Your ‘fix’ would make them even more obsolete.
“I find this rain quite pleasant, it feels as though raindrops are blessing our victory”
I honestly wasn’t aware anyone ran condition builds in pve anymore, they’re horrible. It’s all about raw damage. Your ‘fix’ would make them even more obsolete.
Wow, I’m getting major Deja Vu right now. Fascinating.
Oh I agree, logically it’s a valid opinion. Just…for gameplay reasons, there is 0 reason to do this. Condition builds are already hampered by stacks and making certain monsters who would logically be unable to bleed unable to bleed just makes them even worse.
I always use sarcasm, that’s just how I roll. If it offended, my apologies.
yeah, those 200-300 auto attack damage are so worth it. already can see it “LFG AC Em path 1&2 No necros or cond. warriors/thiefs.” Or “LFG CoF no eles.” This would gimp pretty much every single Condition based attack.
Oh, and in case you didnt realize, those “conditions are an additional effect” they are not “additional” they are calculated and the skill is balanced around them. /facepalm
They’re not going to blanket large groups of enemies with condition immunity because of how many skills are useless without their condition damage.
For instance, Necro’s Scepter. Even untraited, its autoattack and it’s number 2 do more than half of its damage through bleeding and poison. Tack on Lingering Curse and other bleed lengtheners and it’s even more skewed towards CD, which plainly shows it is not a secondary stat for it, but rather a primary stat.
Against a bleeding-immune enemy (such as every environmental object in the game) it’s just about the most worthless attack in the game, behind only Mesmer’s Staff 1 and maybe Ele Fire Scepter 1 (both of which are also worthless against condition-immune objects)
When there are weapons who rely entirely on condition damage to get any remotely useful amount of damage output, it’s not a secondary attribute.
I understand about condition builds and such. I ran a condition build ranger for the longest time. I just don’t view it as a full terrible nerf simply because we will do damage, all attacks aren’t conditions only or something like that.
Also because a fire monster is immune to fire doesn’t make the world come to an end. With the amount of other conditions not to mention raw damage it is easily beaten. I think people are viewing it in absolutes, like if ghosts are immune to physical type conditions then its all over they are unbeatable, it isn’t true. Confusion, fear, vulnerability, weakness, etc are still viable alternatives. There is nothing that would be condition free.
The conditions would turn into a strength and weakness issue. It won’t be all strengths. If an ele’s fire attack did extra to ice enemies, and lightning attacks did double to underwater enemies, etc that would be a balance, not a nerf.
Lolz bled and poisoned a ghost to death. It would definitely make AC less of a cakewalk then it is now for sure.
It’s a valid opinion just like yours is, there is no need for sarcasm.
Yeah more like lolz slashed and shot arrows into a ghost to death. Wait what?
I understand about condition builds and such. I ran a condition build ranger for the longest time. I just don’t view it as a full terrible nerf simply because we will do damage, all attacks aren’t conditions only or something like that.
Also because a fire monster is immune to fire doesn’t make the world come to an end. With the amount of other conditions not to mention raw damage it is easily beaten. I think people are viewing it in absolutes, like if ghosts are immune to physical type conditions then its all over they are unbeatable, it isn’t true. Confusion, fear, vulnerability, weakness, etc are still viable alternatives. There is nothing that would be condition free.
The conditions would turn into a strength and weakness issue. It won’t be all strengths. If an ele’s fire attack did extra to ice enemies, and lightning attacks did double to underwater enemies, etc that would be a balance, not a nerf.
It would be an unbelievably massive nerf to make bleed-immune enemies when bleed builds are already as bad as they are.
Confusion is only available to a handful of professions, and is awful in PvE because of how slowly enemies attack, and the rest of those conditions deal no damage.
And conditions aren’t all strengths right now, they’re almost exclusively weaknesses compared to direct damage because of how badly they perform in a group setting and the fact that most enemies don’t last long enough for CD’s damage over time to overcome direct damage. And those that do are the enemies that are grouped up on, making CD awful again.
Realism arguments have no place in balancing discussions about unrealistic games.
They should also install bathrooms in every major city and outpost and require every character to eat and drink several times a day and if you do not visit a restroom you will get an overburdened debuff that reduces your movement speed by 80%. Seriously. Its absolutely ridiculous that our characters can survive without having to eat or use the bathroom. Get with it arenanet.
Necros would love that idea…. /not
Logically, what are are saying makes sense, but this is a computer game.
Burst damage is already king in this game, given most encounters are short and when they are long, there is no cap on burst damage.
80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
I understand about condition builds and such. I ran a condition build ranger for the longest time. I just don’t view it as a full terrible nerf simply because we will do damage, all attacks aren’t conditions only or something like that.
Also because a fire monster is immune to fire doesn’t make the world come to an end. With the amount of other conditions not to mention raw damage it is easily beaten. I think people are viewing it in absolutes, like if ghosts are immune to physical type conditions then its all over they are unbeatable, it isn’t true. Confusion, fear, vulnerability, weakness, etc are still viable alternatives. There is nothing that would be condition free.
The conditions would turn into a strength and weakness issue. It won’t be all strengths. If an ele’s fire attack did extra to ice enemies, and lightning attacks did double to underwater enemies, etc that would be a balance, not a nerf.
ye to bad those ’’physical’’ conditions are the dmging and the only worthy conditions
namely bleed and poison, cause in your view how can a astral being bleed or be poisoned or even be burnend, where does that leave condi dmg?
confusion? its a ghost it doesnt think, weakness? it has no muscle, fear? its already dead, vulnerability its a ghost it has no flesh
condi is basicly useless on ghosts then
“If at first you don’t succeed, destroy all the evidence that you tried.”
See, you’re not thinking about the bigger picture. You’re thinking about a world full of nonbleeding creatures and that really isn’t so.
Thinking about all of the most common enemies, all of them would bleed.
Everything you fight in fractals, certainly bleeds.
Dungeon creatures and bosses would bleed.
Undead could bleed as well.
Off the top of my head, we are leaving out an occasionally metal based things like golems/bots, ghosts and elementals. Is that really going to kill your class? 3 types of creatures out of dozens??? just three? Every single zone has specific typed creatures, nothing is a “surprise”
I don’t see how hard it would be to say, hey I know im going into a ghost filled dungeon, trait accordingly. if you even have to change anything it takes a whole 3 silver…1 single teleport cost. I think its a huge overreaction.
(edited by Hilda Raven.8641)
See, you’re not thinking about the bigger picture. You’re thinking about a world full of nonbleeding creatures and that really isn’t so.
Thinking about all of the most common enemies, all of them would bleed.
Everything you fight in fractals, certainly bleeds.
Dungeon creatures and bosses would bleed.
Undead could bleed as well.Off the top of my head, we are leaving out an occasionally metal based things like golems/bots, ghosts and elementals. Is that really going to kill your class? 3 types of creatures out of dozens??? just three? Every single zone has specific typed creatures, nothing is a “surprise”
I don’t see how hard it would be to say, hey I know im going into a ghost filled dungeon, trait accordingly. if you even have to change anything it takes a whole 3 silver…1 single teleport cost. I think its a huge overreaction.
well with your reasoning .
AC will become IMPOSSIBLE, there ghost
and where not GHOSTBUSTERS
sticks and stones go through ghosts you know?
“If at first you don’t succeed, destroy all the evidence that you tried.”
You also need to completely regear for direct damage.
And there’s a lot more that would “logically” be bleed/poison-immune than that.
Golems (much of the Inquest), any type of elemental (much of the Icebrood), Destroyers, undead (3 entire ZONES), Branded possibly, ghosts (much of ascalon)…
Pretty much the only zones in the game that wouldn’t be significantly affected would be human zones, while the entire Orr peninsula would be completely unnavigable by most condition builds.
The handful of Burning-immune enemies already makes condition Guardians and condition Eles mostly worthless against them, and burning is a lot less common than bleeding.
I want to see structures able to bleed – because that would be logically hilarious and make necro worth playing for me.
If something immune to burning makes your entire class useless you should quit guild wars 2.
I see everyone is seeing pieces of things, so I am done. I can’t debate with people who think not being able to burn= armageddonmyclassfails
If something immune to burning makes your entire class useless you should quit guild wars 2.
welcome to elementalist.
about half their damage is burning or dependent on the enemy being on fire.
If something immune to burning makes your entire class useless you should quit guild wars 2.
And if you apply real-world logic to video games, you’re gonna have a bad time.
If something immune to burning makes your entire class useless you should quit guild wars 2.
I see everyone is seeing pieces of things, so I am done. I can’t debate with people who think not being able to burn= armageddonmyclassfails
I said condition Guardians and Eles.
Guardians don’t HAVE any conditions other than Burning, and Eles bleeds other than Stone Daggers are pretty awful, while at the same time Fire Scepter is nearly incapable of hurting things unless it can light them on fire because Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix are so poor, and its autoattack does kitten direct damage because it lights them on fire.
Which gets back to what someone said earlier: condition damage is NOT an added benefit, the skills are balanced around the condition being present. Which always makes the direct damage of any condition-applying autoattack be terrible, to account for the condition. Making enemies immune to those conditions directly nerfs every condition weapon because it makes them even kittentier than they are now.
Your definition of ‘fix’ seems to involve a lot of breaking…
wow, yeah, lets just remove conditions from the game completely then.
Does anyone have constructive additions? Because
“We should remove all conditions” And “Well swords and arrows should go right through ghosts” /sarcasmx2 aren’t at all.
I have seen some good points about classes dependent on conditions. I agree. I just believe it is balanced by frequency of mobs.
Lets say a powerful ember just makes your skill set on the useless side because of burning immune.
1. Can you not take into account the fact you don’t run into embers all day everyday? Realize that they are only exact specific places?
2. Can you not take into account that for every strength of a creature there would be an added weakness? Fire vs Ice as an example.
Even if your class is traited to throw down bleeds like it is nothing (Also imo undead would bleed just to clarify, flesh, but dead flesh overkilling the idea isnt necessary) and a earth elemental cannot bleed, you won’t be running into earth eles all kitten day. That is the point I’m trying to get off there will be checks and balances.
What you are suggesting is to completely throw off class balance and make condition builds non-viable for general game play. Basically, the entire game would have to be re-made in order to accommodate your request and keep condition damage based builds a viable choice.
Why on earth would anyone make a condition build that is not 100% effective over a direct damage build that is? Even more so when you consider that condition damage is sub-par in comparison to direct damage.
To take that even further, I’ve yet to see a solo-clear video posted with a condition build; that to me is very telling that condition based builds are already garbage. Making condition based builds even worse won’t improve anything.
What you are suggesting is to completely throw off class balance and make condition builds non-viable for general game play. Basically, the entire game would have to be re-made in order to accommodate your request and keep condition damage based builds a viable choice.
Why on earth would anyone make a condition build that is not 100% effective over a direct damage build that is? Even more so when you consider that condition damage is sub-par in comparison to direct damage.
To take that even further, I’ve yet to see a solo-clear video posted with a condition build; that to me is very telling that condition based builds are already garbage. Making condition based builds even worse won’t improve anything.
Makes sense. My question is, if conditions were made more powerful, on par with direct damage dealing builds, would my suggestion then be viable?
The only reason I called conditions secondaryish is simply because compared to damage based builds they are weaker. The same people who attacked me saying it’s a main thing! then later return to say how weak it is in comparison xD It basically proves my point.
So without stack limitations and/or much stronger power/effects, would people still be so oppositional to a teaspoon of element checks and balances?
And yet it still utterly invalidates your spec.
Highly armored enemies will still take more direct damage if you have higher direct damage stats. It makes them weaker, less effective, but speccing for direct damage will still garner some results.
Condition immunity destroys a condition build’s ability to deal any damage by taking out well over half of it, and completely invalidates the stat you specced for, condition damage, because it takes it out of the equation entirely.
My question is, if conditions were made more powerful, on par with direct damage dealing builds, would my suggestion then be viable?
No, it absolutely wouldn’t, because then it’s the same thing as direct damage…. except for those guys over there. Yeah, those guys make you worthless.
You made a good point, made me think of how annoying encounters are when the only thing that can hurt the enemy is some NPC’s magical tool or w/e. Yea I have no comeback for that, you are right that being immune to it messes it up more than just being stronger or armored does. It would only work if every class had a large amount of conditions to choose from at will.
My question is, if conditions were made more powerful, on par with direct damage dealing builds, would my suggestion then be viable?
No, it absolutely wouldn’t, because then it’s the same thing as direct damage…. except for those guys over there. Yeah, those guys make you worthless.
Isn’t this already what happens? Condition damage already deals about 75% of what power damage does, the only advantage is it has is that it isn’t mitigated by toughness. So you basically get exactly this happening based on whether there are tanky enemies or not. In PvE, there never are, tough enemies in PvE just get higher HP instead of armor. And in PvP there are only bunker Eles and Guardians, which practically have condition clears dribbling out their every orifice.