Guild Wars 2

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

OUCH

Yeah, devs, that’s exactly the kind of situation where you shouldn’t be making glaring mistakes.

I think customer support might honor your request. They do refund money, though I don’t know how they’ll handle it.

Does Anet do Gem refunds? For unspent gems at least bought with IRL money. I recently bought some gems and this is a major concern of mine and I don’t feel comfortable using cash to buy things from the store after this, would rather just stick to gold from now on.

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

but people will still qq about it, yea, man this is effed up.

i wouldnt spend that $10 if it was not that skin.

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

They can do what they like with their property and there’s nothing you can do about it. At most, they’ll lose a customer.

They could just not offer you a refund at all. Just take what you get and be grateful for it, with a little foresight and/or patience, you could have seen this being amended.

I didn’t throw my dolly out the pram when they refunded 2400 gems for my unlimited tools instead of my $30 I used to purchase them, I accepted it knowing full well they could have just said “tough luck”.

Except the situation isn’t you buy an apple…because you didn’t buy an apple. This is more the situation.

You pay for a ticket to an amusement park, because you want to ride a certain ride. The ride proves to be unpopular and the ride is closed when you get to it.

You see, you didn’t directly buy the outfit….you directly bought the gems. Much like you didn’t directly by entrance to the ride at the park, you paid admission.

Would the park then say sorry the ride is closed, but you can have your money back…because most wouldn’t. In the legal sense of the word, all you bought was gems which you’d still have.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t get your money back. I’m simply saying the apple analogy isn’t good, because in that analogy you directly bought an apple.

Vayne.8563:

Except the situation isn’t you buy an apple…because you didn’t buy an apple. This is more the situation.

You pay for a ticket to an amusement park, because you want to ride a certain ride. The ride proves to be unpopular and the ride is closed when you get to it.

You see, you didn’t directly buy the outfit….you directly bought the gems. Much like you didn’t directly by entrance to the ride at the park, you paid admission.

Would the park then say sorry the ride is closed, but you can have your money back…because most wouldn’t. In the legal sense of the word, all you bought was gems which you’d still have.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t get your money back. I’m simply saying the apple analogy isn’t good, because in that analogy you directly bought an apple.

I like your explanation.

But deep down, how do i convince myself, as a customer, to put any more money in this gemshop.

I’ve been playing mmo’s since around 2003 and it’s the first time i experience something like that. You might say it’s cool that Anet listened to a part of the playerbase that was kitten ed with seeing T3 armor on the gemshop, but by doing this, they probably kitten ed off another group of players, like me, who actually paid money to support them.

It’s a big mess and in the end, i’m not sure there’s going to be a winner.

thartalion.2756:

I like your explanation.

But deep down, how do i convince myself, as a customer, to put any more money in this gemshop.

I’ve been playing mmo’s since around 2003 and it’s the first time i experience something like that. You might say it’s cool that Anet listened to a part of the playerbase that was kitten ed with seeing T3 armor on the gemshop, but by doing this, they probably kitten ed off another group of players, like me, who actually paid money to support them.

It’s a big mess and in the end, i’m not sure there’s going to be a winner.

As soon as the armor was released, ArenaNet dug themselves a hole. This way is the lesser evil, as less people will be annoyed.

The less people that put into the gemstore, the less survivable the game will be as it will not be getting the funds to product content.

Inb4gemstoreprofitsdontgotogw2.

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

I can sell a rock in my drive way for thousands of dollars if I find someone stupid enough to buy it. Similarly if someone is stupid enough to pay thousands of dollar for a GW2 used account, they deserve what they get.

coglin.1867:

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

I can sell a rock in my drive way for thousands of dollars if I find someone stupid enough to buy it. Similarly if someone is stupid enough to pay thousands of dollar for a GW2 used account, they deserve what they get.

My point is not if some fool buys said accounts, it’s the real-life profit that owners of a number of accounts would be able to make, even if against the T&Cs.

Vayne.8563:

Except the situation isn’t you buy an apple…because you didn’t buy an apple. This is more the situation.

You pay for a ticket to an amusement park, because you want to ride a certain ride. The ride proves to be unpopular and the ride is closed when you get to it.

You see, you didn’t directly buy the outfit….you directly bought the gems. Much like you didn’t directly by entrance to the ride at the park, you paid admission.

Would the park then say sorry the ride is closed, but you can have your money back…because most wouldn’t. In the legal sense of the word, all you bought was gems which you’d still have.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t get your money back. I’m simply saying the apple analogy isn’t good, because in that analogy you directly bought an apple.

Well, I’d say it’s more along the lines of, “The ride got closed because fans of the roller coaster across the lane went on a rampage, ripped down the ride and burned it to the ground because it looked too much like the coaster they liked.”

1.) I really hope their not stationed in the us or Canada cuz this has a better business bureau claim written all over it

2.) if not people can just make a fraudulent claim to their credit card companies and if enough people do it, they’ll block anet all together meaning anyone with that line of credit card wont be able to buy gems anymore, or evan buy the game online for that matter

this is turning into a huge bomb and its kinda funny to see

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

so i guess my super sexy exclusive extra shiny megae limited braham’s shield and other stuff already made my account $10000 worth

Lighter.5631:

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

so i guess my super sexy exclusive extra shiny megae limited braham’s shield and other stuff already made my account $10000 worth

Not at all. This armor is ridiculously popular and a reason SO many make Human light characters. Having an “upgraded” version of this is what would make an account illegally worth a small fortune.

But in time, yes, discontinued items can, infact, make accounts worth a bunch illegally, talking GW2, Ghastly Grinning Shield for one could illegally be sold for $100s. If we talk other games, I will use RuneScape as an example as I’m sure many have played that, a few years ago there we items that made accounts worth $10,000s. That could spiral into the same, just from things being discontinued.

But now this is getting sketchy and I’ve had far too many infractions recently.

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

I’m with the OP on this one. If they don’t refund the cash, it feels like they duped us into buying gems by offering something they knew a lot of people wanted, then pulling a bait and switch leaving us with some kitten skin we don’t want, or the option of buying other things we don’t want.

I’ll be keeping my money in the future if it’s not a refund of whatever we used to buy the gems.

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

The truth is that appeals to minority or majority are both guesswork AND meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if it infuriated 2% or 88%. They offended a basic principle. They should have known better but someone was asleep at the wheel. Now they get to settle for the lesser evil to cover a stupid mistake. There is no “fairness” involved. Just damage control.

When i saw the light armor for sale, i thought “hey, they won’t add race change into the game, but at least i won’t have to reroll my sylvari into a silly barbie-girl just to get that awesome armor!”.

I really thought it was a cool solution for me. But now i’m left with (1) no cool armor and (2) 10,00 bucks less in my wallet.

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

Well were are these players to rise their point? I see a thread with 17 pages and many double and triple posts. Hundreds of thousands players play this game. Why did they remove a skin based on a bunch of whiny people, who do not represent even a 1% of the gw2 playerbase? Not fair!
By this logic, they should remove the Ascended items right now.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

I’m with the OP on this one. If they don’t refund the cash, it feels like they duped us into buying gems by offering something they knew a lot of people wanted, then pulling a bait and switch leaving us with some kitten skin we don’t want, or the option of buying other things we don’t want.

I’ll be keeping my money in the future if it’s not a refund of whatever we used to buy the gems.

Its a bit of a conspiracy, but yes, this response should have been expected, so perhaps it was they did dupe a bunch of folk into buying gems.

But you won’t get your RWM back. You bought the gems, not the item skin directly, and you’re getting the gems back.

thartalion.2756:

Vayne.8563:

Except the situation isn’t you buy an apple…because you didn’t buy an apple. This is more the situation.

You pay for a ticket to an amusement park, because you want to ride a certain ride. The ride proves to be unpopular and the ride is closed when you get to it.

You see, you didn’t directly buy the outfit….you directly bought the gems. Much like you didn’t directly by entrance to the ride at the park, you paid admission.

Would the park then say sorry the ride is closed, but you can have your money back…because most wouldn’t. In the legal sense of the word, all you bought was gems which you’d still have.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t get your money back. I’m simply saying the apple analogy isn’t good, because in that analogy you directly bought an apple.

I like your explanation.

But deep down, how do i convince myself, as a customer, to put any more money in this gemshop.

I’ve been playing mmo’s since around 2003 and it’s the first time i experience something like that. You might say it’s cool that Anet listened to a part of the playerbase that was kitten ed with seeing T3 armor on the gemshop, but by doing this, they probably kitten ed off another group of players, like me, who actually paid money to support them.

It’s a big mess and in the end, i’m not sure there’s going to be a winner.

Account bound tools? they use to be soulbound and are now account so somthing you bought in the past may get buffed .

Nike.2631:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

The truth is that appeals to minority or majority are both guesswork AND meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if it infuriated 2% or 88%. They offended a basic principle. They should have known better but someone was asleep at the wheel. Now they get to settle for the lesser evil to cover a stupid mistake. There is no “fairness” involved. Just damage control.

What basic principles? The only one offended here is you.

Will it happen again?

In the broader sense, yes, absolutely they’ll make another hair-brained mistake at some point and have to redact it. Humans: they do that.

Will this exact error of judgment be repeated? Probably not.

Lesson to be learned? Don’t buy new Gemstore stuff the first day or two.

Funset.7893:

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

Well were are these players to rise their point? I see a thread with 17 pages and many double and triple posts. Hundreds of thousands players play this game. Why did they remove a skin based on a bunch of whiny people, who do not represent even a 1% of the gw2 playerbase? Not fair!
By this logic, they should remove the Ascended items right now.

Source for your figures please.

Flissy.4093:

Terra Dactyl.2047:

I’m with the OP on this one. If they don’t refund the cash, it feels like they duped us into buying gems by offering something they knew a lot of people wanted, then pulling a bait and switch leaving us with some kitten skin we don’t want, or the option of buying other things we don’t want.

I’ll be keeping my money in the future if it’s not a refund of whatever we used to buy the gems.

Its a bit of a conspiracy, but yes, this response should have been expected, so perhaps it was they did dupe a bunch of folk into buying gems.

But you won’t get your RWM back. You bought the gems, not the item skin directly, and you’re getting the gems back.

Funset.7893:

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

Well were are these players to rise their point? I see a thread with 17 pages and many double and triple posts. Hundreds of thousands players play this game. Why did they remove a skin based on a bunch of whiny people, who do not represent even a 1% of the gw2 playerbase? Not fair!
By this logic, they should remove the Ascended items right now.

Source for your figures please.

Are you saying that the gw2 playerbase is basically a forum thread of 17 pages? Are you that smart?

I just think this is somewhat sad.

So far, I don’t think highly of most of the armors they have added in the gem store and the soon to come ascended armor is just hideous in my opinion.

I do think many of the cultural armor sets looks gorgeous. I had hoped more of the cultural armors would be re-created and like the Flamekissed, become available for all of us.

That would mean having access to 12 more armor models, many which people actually like.

It would also mean that not only Sylvari would have had access to more than one set of glowing armor.

I also need a clarification:

Let’s say someone bought and used the skin and doesn’t like the new one. That person gets 800 gems back, but the skin itself remains attached to his/her current gear? That means that we get enough gems to split only two pieces back to what they were before all this mess?

Or, they remove the skin completely and refund 800 gems? Like all this never happened?

thartalion.2756:

I also need a clarification:

Let’s say someone bought and used the skin and doesn’t like the new one. That person gets 800 gems back, but the skin itself remains attached to his/her current gear? That means that we get enough gems to split only two pieces back to what they were before all this mess?

Or, they remove the skin completely and refund 800 gems? Like all this never happened?

My guess is removal of the skin and 800 gems.

With the change to the unlimited tools recently, I got a refund on my second set and had to delete a set to be eligible for a refund. I imagine its much the same.

I don’t know how transmuted armor will be handled though. Thats iffy, as to get a refund you may have to lose your stats/runes too, unless AN control your account and apply splitters to each piece once you’ve submitted a refund request. Its a wait and find out.

I think the best way to solve it, is to make a totally new skin for TP. Then make the existing owner armor version a special one, where ONLY the player(owner) able to see the T3 version of skin while all other players see is the new skin. Give these players a one time ability to convert the skin to new skin.

This is actually workable just like when we tone down model quality we saw a replaced model instead, but it doean’t change any thing at all. T3 owner get angry when they saw hard worked exclusive skin is released to public. So allow the one bought this skin to keep and see by themselves only is a win win solution.

Crossaber.8934:

I think the best way to solve it, is to make a totally new skin for TP. Then make the existing owner armor version a special one, where ONLY the player(owner) able to see the T3 version of skin while all other players see is the new skin. Give these players a one time ability to convert the skin to new skin.

This is actually workable just like when we tone down model quality we saw a replaced model instead, but it doean’t change any thing at all. T3 owner get angry when they saw hard worked exclusive skin is released to public. So allow the one bought this skin to keep and see by themselves only is a win win solution.

I don’t actually think that’s possible. The culling setting its a low setting, generated model, rather than tied to an actual armour set it self.

Gem Refunds

If you purchased Guild Wars 2 Gems from the Gem Store and would like a refund, please submit a request to our Support team and provide the following information:

The amount of gems purchased.

Your billing zip code or postal code.

If the payment was attempted by credit/debit card, please provide ONLY the last 4 digits of the credit/debit card used.

If the payment was attempted using PayPal®, the invoice ID or transaction ID from your PayPal® payment history for the transaction.

Note: If you have used the purchased gems, you may not be eligible for a refund.

https://guildwars2.zendesk.com/entries/27697743-Refunds

If they refund your gems, and you are unhappy, I am sure you can contact CS, and ask about a refund.

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

No. I was happy enough with the new armor that I unparked an alt I hadn’t used much in months because I wasn’t happy with its appearance. I set it up with three transmuted down destroyer weapons and was looking forward to leveling it and working toward a destroyer trident and picking up its own dyes to use for its coloring. I wanted to tweak some some things with a total makeover kit as well.

So taking the skin away from me does specifically make me unhappy to play the character and takes away not only the skin, but the opportunity for me to have months of goals and accomplishments with that character.

So I wasn’t happy enough to play that character without the armor. I certainly won’t be happy to play with it again without another armor I like as much or better, which currently isn’t in the game. I’ve been waiting over a year for the right skin to finish this character, playing the game the whole time, and now that skin is gone. That is at least as big a deal as somebody else having a skin with fire on it that someone else bought without.

But none of that makes Funset having something he liked taken away from him against his will any less wrong than it happening to me even if he just popped in and bought it the first time he saw it. And it was very wrong.

The change is coming at the expense of the people that bought the new skin to placate the people who had the T3 skin and complained. This is specifically what was asked for – take away something that other people currently have and like against their will. Why not just own up to it?

thartalion.2756:

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

You putting money in the gem-store changed the game for many people. We would have not gotten this cash-shop driven (thats bad imho) game if it wasen’t for people putting a lot of money in it.

I geus people do thinks and it always effects other people. Not only for the good.

MisterEction.9382:

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

No. I was happy enough with the new armor that I unparked an alt I hadn’t used much in months because I wasn’t happy with its appearance. I set it up with three transmuted down destroyer weapons and was looking forward to leveling it and working toward a destroyer trident and picking up its own dyes to use for its coloring. I wanted to tweak some some things with a total makeover kit as well.

So taking the skin away from me does specifically make me unhappy to play the character and takes away not only the skin, but the opportunity for me to have months of goals and accomplishments with that character.

So I wasn’t happy enough to play that character without the armor. I certainly won’t be happy to play with it again without another armor I like as much or better, which currently isn’t in the game. I’ve been waiting over a year for the right skin to finish this character, playing the game the whole time, and now that skin is gone. That is at least as big a deal as somebody else having a skin with fire on it that someone else bought without.

But none of that makes Funset having something he liked taken away from him against his will any less wrong than it happening to me even if he just popped in and bought it the first time he saw it. And it was very wrong.

The change is coming at the expense of the people that bought the new skin to placate the people who had the T3 skin and complained. This is specifically what was asked for – take away something that other people currently have and like against their will. Why not just own up to it?

I’ve not said nobody is affected by this. As soon as this armor went live, SOMEONE was damaged. This is damage control, and are affecting by far the minority.

But if this skin means so much to you, why isn’t your character Human?

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Keeping the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, remove the armor skin from the game, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

thartalion.2756:

Vayne.8563:

Except the situation isn’t you buy an apple…because you didn’t buy an apple. This is more the situation.

You pay for a ticket to an amusement park, because you want to ride a certain ride. The ride proves to be unpopular and the ride is closed when you get to it.

You see, you didn’t directly buy the outfit….you directly bought the gems. Much like you didn’t directly by entrance to the ride at the park, you paid admission.

Would the park then say sorry the ride is closed, but you can have your money back…because most wouldn’t. In the legal sense of the word, all you bought was gems which you’d still have.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t get your money back. I’m simply saying the apple analogy isn’t good, because in that analogy you directly bought an apple.

I like your explanation.

But deep down, how do i convince myself, as a customer, to put any more money in this gemshop.

I’ve been playing mmo’s since around 2003 and it’s the first time i experience something like that. You might say it’s cool that Anet listened to a part of the playerbase that was kitten ed with seeing T3 armor on the gemshop, but by doing this, they probably kitten ed off another group of players, like me, who actually paid money to support them.

It’s a big mess and in the end, i’m not sure there’s going to be a winner.

You don’t. You either like the game or you don’t like the game. I buy stuff in the cash shop because I enjoy the game. I want the game to go on, to continue to produce content.

And I know that not every update is as good as every other one, but I’ve played a lot of MMOs. Free to play ones, subscription MMOs, and even buy to play. Out of all of this, this is the only one I’ve liked for more than a few months. That’s a big thing for me.

The other side is that I realize that people make mistakes. All people make mistakes. A couple of 300 employees is more likely to make mistakes than a company of 50. It’s the nature of the beast.

I can be ungracious and blame the company for the mistake, or I can remember how many mistakes I’ve made, even stupid mistakes, and cut them some slack. That’s the choice we all live with every day.

In general, I wouldn’t let one skin kill my enjoyment over the thousands of hours I played this game. My entertainment budget for this game is like pennies per hour. What did I lose? I skin I liked? A couple of bucks which I can use for something else?

It’s all a question of perspective. No one can tell you how to feel.

Flissy.4093:

Crossaber.8934:

I think the best way to solve it, is to make a totally new skin for TP. Then make the existing owner armor version a special one, where ONLY the player(owner) able to see the T3 version of skin while all other players see is the new skin. Give these players a one time ability to convert the skin to new skin.

This is actually workable just like when we tone down model quality we saw a replaced model instead, but it doean’t change any thing at all. T3 owner get angry when they saw hard worked exclusive skin is released to public. So allow the one bought this skin to keep and see by themselves only is a win win solution.

I don’t actually think that’s possible. The culling setting its a low setting, generated model, rather than tied to an actual armour set it self.

It is possible i think if Anet wants to do it.

It is not changing what people see. The trick is it changed what you see.

All the skin will become the new skin that’s for sure. Only the one who purchased the skin before the discontinue, is able to keep the skin visual through their own character.

Flissy.4093:

MisterEction.9382:

Flissy.4093:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

Removing the skin just because of few whiny people on the forum is not fair.

Remeber, people on the forum are minority, and we should not consider their opinion, because it does not match the majority. It is a proven fact.

Please, give back the armor skin, Arenanet. Do not bully your loyal customers based on the opinion of a tiny minority of your playerbas in 1 single thread!

The armor impacted the goals and accomplishments of many months of past players. Reverting has just made your character go back 24h or so. You were happy enough to play without this armor. Big difference, eh?

No. I was happy enough with the new armor that I unparked an alt I hadn’t used much in months because I wasn’t happy with its appearance. I set it up with three transmuted down destroyer weapons and was looking forward to leveling it and working toward a destroyer trident and picking up its own dyes to use for its coloring. I wanted to tweak some some things with a total makeover kit as well.

So taking the skin away from me does specifically make me unhappy to play the character and takes away not only the skin, but the opportunity for me to have months of goals and accomplishments with that character.

So I wasn’t happy enough to play that character without the armor. I certainly won’t be happy to play with it again without another armor I like as much or better, which currently isn’t in the game. I’ve been waiting over a year for the right skin to finish this character, playing the game the whole time, and now that skin is gone. That is at least as big a deal as somebody else having a skin with fire on it that someone else bought without.

But none of that makes Funset having something he liked taken away from him against his will any less wrong than it happening to me even if he just popped in and bought it the first time he saw it. And it was very wrong.

The change is coming at the expense of the people that bought the new skin to placate the people who had the T3 skin and complained. This is specifically what was asked for – take away something that other people currently have and like against their will. Why not just own up to it?

I’ve not said nobody is affected by this. As soon as this armor went live, SOMEONE was damaged. This is damage control, and are affecting by far the minority.

But if this skin means so much to you, why isn’t your character Human?

We don’t know how many people it is actually affecting. It could be affecting more people than the number of people that had T3 and complained. Even if it is only a minority, that doesn’t make taking something from them against their will any less wrong or remove the obligation to ensure they are fairly compensated.

I have human characters, five of them in fact. One of them has T3 light boots. I’ve been playing regularly since release. If I wanted a human in full T3 light armor, I’d have one.

This character isn’t a human because I couldn’t have made a human that looks like this one does in this armor. Now that this armor is being taken away, there may never be another armor that looks as good to me on this character again.

MisterEction.9382:

We don’t know how many people it is actually affecting. It could be affecting more people than the number of people that had T3 and complained. Even if it is only a minority, that doesn’t make taking something from them against their will any less wrong or remove the obligation to ensure they are fairly compensated.

I have human characters, five of them in fact. One of them has T3 light boots. I’ve been playing regularly since release. If I wanted a human in full T3 light armor, I’d have one.

This character isn’t a human because I couldn’t have made a human that looks like this one does in this armor. Now that this armor is being taken away, there may never be another armor that looks as good to me on this character again.

(with the way the forum seems to be thinking)
how dare you think about yourself…… think about all the people who grinded out t3 months ago /cry

but in all honesty your toon looks amazing it’s a shame that “special snowflakes” cant share their toys with casuals

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

It would be a pretty slippery slope if the tried to pull the EULA/TOS card on this.

Vayne.8563:

…

I can be ungracious and blame the company for the mistake, or I can remember how many mistakes I’ve made, even stupid mistakes, and cut them some slack. That’s the choice we all live with every day.

…

It’s all a question of perspective. No one can tell you how to feel.

Problem is : I’m the one paying for someone else’s mistake. I really hate that in real life, so imagine how i feel about this right now. And don’t act like this was their first mistake. I got over many more, but this time it cost me money.

In my business, if i do a mistake, i give my customer the right to be kitten ed at me (so i try really hard to avoid that). If it happens, i will be sincerely sorry and try to compensate in some way, but i know that customer might never return because there are other alternatives on the market. And one thing i learned is that there’s no such thing as loyalty when there’s money in the balance.

Same story here. In the end, I will be the one judging if the compensation is enough for me to get over it or not. If i didn’t lose money on this (even if it’s just a tiny 10,00$), i would’nt make a case about it.

thartalion.2756:

Vayne.8563:

…

I can be ungracious and blame the company for the mistake, or I can remember how many mistakes I’ve made, even stupid mistakes, and cut them some slack. That’s the choice we all live with every day.

…

It’s all a question of perspective. No one can tell you how to feel.

Problem is : I’m the one paying for someone else’s mistake. I really hate that in real life, so imagine how i feel about this right now. And don’t act like this was their first mistake. I got over many more, but this time it cost me money.

In my business, if i do a mistake, i give my customer the right to be kitten ed at me (so i try really hard to avoid that). If it happens, i will be sincerely sorry and try to compensate in some way, but i know that customer might never return because there are other alternatives on the market. And one thing i learned is that there’s no such thing as loyalty when there’s money in the balance.

Same story here. In the end, I will be the one judging if the compensation is enough for me to get over it or not. If i didn’t lose money on this (even if it’s just a tiny 10,00$), i would’nt make a case about it.

That’s exactly my point. It’s ten dollars. If you bought the game for $60 and you now have spent $70 and you’ve played it for 7 hours, that’s ten dollars per hour for your entertainment. If you played it for 700 hours, that’s one dollar an hour for your entertainment.

You’re looking at a single branch of a single tree while there’s a whole forest you’re ignoring. You’re focusing on something negative. This game cost me ten dollars more and I get nothing for it.

If you’re not spending money regularly (if you were this wouldn’t be a problem because the gems would get used), you’re enjoying free updates every two weeks all for the boxed price.

I’m not saying it’s not annoying. I’m saying that in the scheme of things it shouldn’t be that big a deal. Unless there’s an MMO you enjoy more than you can enjoy for less money, you’d be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Of course you can continue to play the game and never spend another dime here. That’s your prerogative. But in the big scheme of things you either have gotten your money’s worth or you haven’t. And you know, if they come out with something awesome next month (or if you love the new skin), you’ve lost nothing.

Well to be fair I think we can blame the company for the mistake because this was a self inflicted wound. The community isn’t at fault on either side. Having had to grind for T3 heavy cultural armor I can see both sides of this argument. However having played the RNG Black Lion chest game on the first Halloween I also can say I have felt cheated from the gem shop (although that was totally my own stupid self) That doesn’t mean we should hold a grudge against Anet. They screwed up, T3 slipped past someone and now they are doing their best to control the damage. If that damage is a loss in potential gem purchases, well, that’s on them I guess. The flip side was the loss of a player base which is a potential loss in gem purchases. It was a train wreck from the get go. Although I do think that when they actually went back on this it had to be more then a vocal minority or it wasn’t approved by the lead designer/ art director or someone higher up.

As to the question of will it happen again? Maybe. You would hope that this would cause a re examination of practices and they would implement internal changes to ensure it wouldn’t. It is not a red letter day for them and as someone who is an animator in the video game field I can tell you that the development team is upset about this. Our games are our babies. So many hundreds of hours go into these things and we really want them to be the best experience they can be for the players. Its upsetting to us on a professional and creative level when these things slip by. Still November must be a cursed month for them. Wasn’t it last year around now the whole kittenarka precursor debacle and the the ascended gear uproar?

Sure it could happen again…because companies aren’t people. Companies can’t make mistakes but people who work for them can. The company didn’t do anything…people did.

So if a mistake is made and it’s a bad one, it’s unlikely that those people will make the same mistake a second time. But companies have turnovers and experience changes in management. They evolve and change.

So the people who made the mistake today aren’t necessarily the same people who will make it the day after tomorrow.

There comes a time when the past is the past because all the people involved in the mistake are doing different things. Promoted. Left the company. No longer involved in that area of decision making.

But it’ll probably be a long time before that happens.

They’ll make other mistakes instead. Why? Because it’s what humans do.

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

What he was saying is you didn’t buy anything. Technically everything in the game we rent thats how company’s can get away with changing there service at any time for any reason or discounting the service completely and get away with it. Basically everything in Guildwars 2 is the sole property of GW2. That is why its illegal to sale gold or items on sights like ebay.

Before anyone says thats not right every single game has done that from EQ to World Of Warcraft.

Vayne.8563:

Sure it could happen again…because companies aren’t people. Companies can’t make mistakes but people who work for them can. The company didn’t do anything…people did.

So if a mistake is made and it’s a bad one, it’s unlikely that those people will make the same mistake a second time. But companies have turnovers and experience changes in management. They evolve and change.

So the people who made the mistake today aren’t necessarily the same people who will make it the day after tomorrow.

There comes a time when the past is the past because all the people involved in the mistake are doing different things. Promoted. Left the company. No longer involved in that area of decision making.

But it’ll probably be a long time before that happens.

They’ll make other mistakes instead. Why? Because it’s what humans do.

Thing is, this wasn’t an honest mistake. They new from the start what they were doing and what they were doing was taking an expensive, race specific luxury item in game, putting flame effects on it and then tried to sell it on the gem store for 1/3 the cost of the in game version like we wouldn’t notice right away.

I can forgive a game glitch, even a big one or a class balance that ends up cascading into a huge imbalance problem. But, I refuse to accept that no one, from the conceptual team to the final project lead green light, realized they were putting T3 cultural human armor on the gem store for less than it’s worth in game.

If that’s really what happened then we should be discussing the professionalism of the people running the game because it’s silly that the entirety of the staff who made the game didn’t notice something we figured out a few minutes after it went live.