Guild Wars 2

I was showing some friends the game and they seemed to like it until they asked about loot. I tried to change the subject, and one said “Is it as terrible as GW1?” I had to answer yes. I told them of how the game was far better mechanics wise etc.. They didn’t seem to care. I guess some would call them loot monkeys. One then spoke up and asked if it had Anti farm code like GW1. I replied “To my knowledge no..” But in my mind, and many others, it does. Ever roam an area and have loot drops slow then stop. This reminds me of how Anti farm worked in GW1.

So I ask, will the loot always be so Abysmal?

For those unfamiliar, here is how the GW1 Wiki explains their anti farm code: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Anti-farm_code

Is that like DR, then? I’ve certainly encountered DR, but only on the Champ Train.

DR does affect mob loot, events and dungeons, though. Not just Champ chests.

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

There’s nothing like completing an event or opening a reward chest and getting two or three green drops.

The thrill, the rush…

Yes, there is DR. The game will stop rewarding you if you keep doing to same thing over and over.

But all games have abysmal loot. It’s the only possible way desirable loot is desirable – because it drops rarely. If it dropped all the time, it would be worthless (lots of supply) and people would complain about the abysmal loot.

I wouldn’t say the loot is abysmal. It always depends on what you’re doing to get loot. Does it make sense to farm random mobs for hours over hours? No, most certainly not.

I don’t know whether there’s an anti farm code implemented similiar to the one in Guild Wars 1 or not. Even if there isn’t the game discourages random mob farming by design. Mobs don’t give you a lot of EXP compared to other activities in the game and yes: you do not get good loot from them either. It’s much more worthwhile to do a lot of events, farm champions (champion trains in Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound) or to participate in the fight against the numerous world bosses.

Olvendred.3027:

Yes, there is DR. The game will stop rewarding you if you keep doing to same thing over and over.

But all games have abysmal loot. It’s the only possible way desirable loot is desirable – because it drops rarely. If it dropped all the time, it would be worthless (lots of supply) and people would complain about the abysmal loot.

Exactly this. They could have precursors drop much more often and people would complain that there was nothing worthwhile in game. The general impression I get is when people say they want better loot in game they mean only for themselves. If they mean for everyone then they would be back in the same place relative to everyone else anyway.

The problem ultimately stems from the games design philosiphy. Everyone is equal, everyone is special and everyone gets credit for everything.

In traditional MMO’s you have to compete for kills and resources and loot from bosses. This means you have a much higher overall rarity to items that drop because only 1 person gets it. In GW2 EVERYONE gets full rewards for everything. This means the items are significantly less rare and mostly seem like junk because everyone is getting them.

Getting a rare (blue) item in a traditional MMO is rewarding and makes you feel accomplished. In GW2 getting a rare (yellow) item seems like a waste of time because everyone is getting yellow items.

That is why loot seems like crap in GW2.

For a lesson in how to design a loot system, I would suggest trying D3 ROS. Vanilla D3 was the worst possible way to misunderstand the ARPG formula, but that is corrected, massively, with ROS. Just level a character in ROS and experience loot that is appropriate and rewarding. Most games get this fairly right, but GW2 and vanilla D3 are examples of games that are far off the mark.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem ultimately stems from the games design philosiphy. Everyone is equal, everyone is special and everyone gets credit for everything.

In traditional MMO’s you have to compete for kills and resources and loot from bosses. This means you have a much higher overall rarity to items that drop because only 1 person gets it. In GW2 EVERYONE gets full rewards for everything. This means the items are significantly less rare and mostly seem like junk because everyone is getting them.

Getting a rare (blue) item in a traditional MMO is rewarding and makes you feel accomplished. In GW2 getting a rare (yellow) item seems like a waste of time because everyone is getting yellow items.

That is why loot seems like crap in GW2.

It’s actually simpler than that. Loot seems like crap in GW2 because it is crap. In other competitive games like WoW RNG is on your side. Good, exciting, loot will simply be yours over time—you are rewarded for playing the game, which is as it should be. In GW2, not so much. The experience here is crap, crap, and more crap over time. The simple answer is that this is because of a bad loot system. It’s actually that simple.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

what stupid argument is that? so what do you call farming gold and transforming it into gems?

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

what stupid argument is that? so what do you call farming gold and transforming it into gems?

What’s the current gold to gem rate? Then ask yourself how long it takes to farm the gold for, say, 800 gems and if it simply isn’t more rewarding to spend the $10.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

what stupid argument is that? so what do you call farming gold and transforming it into gems?

What’s the current gold to gem rate? Then ask yourself how long it takes to farm the gold for, say, 800 gems and if it simply isn’t more rewarding to spend the $10.

1000 gems for the deluxe edition right now is around 100g, 100g is as easy to farm as a 10 days doing 5 dungeons a day (not really hard if you ask me) of course the person who only plays 10 minutes a day is not able to grind enough gold to replace the gem store, but it’s not an overwhelmingly difficult task to have a steady income of gold that allows you to buy anything you want from the gem store.

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

what stupid argument is that? so what do you call farming gold and transforming it into gems?

What’s the current gold to gem rate? Then ask yourself how long it takes to farm the gold for, say, 800 gems and if it simply isn’t more rewarding to spend the $10.

1000 gems for the deluxe edition right now is around 100g, 100g is as easy to farm as a 10 days doing 5 dungeons a day (not really hard if you ask me) of course the person who only plays 10 minutes a day is not able to grind enough gold to replace the gem store, but it’s not an overwhelmingly difficult task to have a steady income of gold that allows you to buy anything you want from the gem store.

Why would I wait 10 days when I can have what I want in 10 minutes with the swipe of a credit card. I can have what I want and spend the next ten days doing something other then grinding gold.

It is sooo much better than it was at launch….

I’m okay with it now. Because I remember when playing wvw was a losing propositon in soo many ways.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yes because they want you to use the cash shop. You can’t really farm in this game.

what stupid argument is that? so what do you call farming gold and transforming it into gems?

What’s the current gold to gem rate? Then ask yourself how long it takes to farm the gold for, say, 800 gems and if it simply isn’t more rewarding to spend the $10.

1000 gems for the deluxe edition right now is around 100g, 100g is as easy to farm as a 10 days doing 5 dungeons a day (not really hard if you ask me) of course the person who only plays 10 minutes a day is not able to grind enough gold to replace the gem store, but it’s not an overwhelmingly difficult task to have a steady income of gold that allows you to buy anything you want from the gem store.

Why would I wait 10 days when I can have what I want in 10 minutes with the swipe of a credit card. I can have what I want and spend the next ten days doing something other then grinding gold.

because grinding for gold for 10 days takes like 20 hours of your life, if you don’t have 2 hours of your life daily to play some GW2, then yes, it’s better to swipe that credit card, but a lot of people do have 2 hours, in fact, they enjoy running dungeons daily, and all the better if they can also pay themselves gem store items by playing.

It really comes down to mob farming for gold versus gold farming in general;. You can farm for gold in this game very easily. You can’t farm mobs in this game for gold/items to sell/keep very easily. GW2 does not reward you with good items pretty much ever. But there are options to accrue gold quickly if you really want to.

The way I see it, if you were prepared to grind mobs for profit, then you can grind dungeon paths for profit instead. Grinding is grinding.

It is a bit of a “kittened if you do and kittened if you don’t” situation. If you have great loot upgrades but give them out easily so everyone gets them, there isn’t much point to releasing the upgrades in the first place as the people who want them want something harder to obtain and better than just average to work toward. But if everyone doesn’t get the upgrades then the player base starts segmenting into tiers based on gear level, which is the very situation many of us came to GW2 to get away from. I personally moved to GW2 from WoW because I got tired of seeing my gear become sub-par again after every time I finished grinding out a new tier.

You lose some people either way you go, but I suspect they will stick closer to the current system than not simply because there is plenty of competition for grind players in the market and not much for people who want the treadmill to slow to a crawl at some point.

There is no loot in GW2.
You set yourself a goal, you farm gold and you buy the things you need to attain that goal. It’s like work.

Working as intended.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

GW2 don’t have a kittenty loot system. Its just different that the standard MMO system that people are used to.

In normal MMO you have more loots, but usually you need to split it between the people in your group. Because of that, the loots look nice and you will almost never buy or craft things. You will farm what you need, since its the only option and use what you loot.

In GW2, you receive mostly currency (karma, skillpoint, gold, badge of honor, laurel, etc) You can use these currency to buy what you want, but the normal loots also need to be less good to compensate. (There is some exception like fractal weapons, sunless weapons, etc)

This system have some pros and cons.
Pros : It easier to get what you want, since you don’t rely on RNG that much. I want volcanus? I get the gold and some material and i craft it or buy it. I don’t need to a single dungeon over and over until i can drop it and that i need to roll the dices so i can get it and not the 4 other people with me.
Cons : Loots seem kittenty for a lot of people since they are not use to that. A lot of cool items end up losing their uniqueness. Since you can go strait for the cool item, a lot less people are bad looking gear and more people will have cool looking items faster. Legendary or other cool looking gear now lost a lot of their prestige since you can see them more often. The best way of demonstrate that is the Fractal and Sunless weapons which are still some of the rarest item in the game since you can’t buy them on the TP and you need to focus on a part of the game to obtain it.

Raine.1394:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem ultimately stems from the games design philosiphy. Everyone is equal, everyone is special and everyone gets credit for everything.

In traditional MMO’s you have to compete for kills and resources and loot from bosses. This means you have a much higher overall rarity to items that drop because only 1 person gets it. In GW2 EVERYONE gets full rewards for everything. This means the items are significantly less rare and mostly seem like junk because everyone is getting them.

Getting a rare (blue) item in a traditional MMO is rewarding and makes you feel accomplished. In GW2 getting a rare (yellow) item seems like a waste of time because everyone is getting yellow items.

That is why loot seems like crap in GW2.

It’s actually simpler than that. Loot seems like crap in GW2 because it is crap. In other competitive games like WoW RNG is on your side. Good, exciting, loot will simply be yours over time—you are rewarded for playing the game, which is as it should be. In GW2, not so much. The experience here is crap, crap, and more crap over time. The simple answer is that this is because of a bad loot system. It’s actually that simple.

I’ve said this for years, some games are pro player some are pro game. GW2 seems to think a groin shot each time we open a chest promotes us to play more, and keep coming back. OR buy something. The exact opposite is happening. Players are leaving.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Raine.1394:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem ultimately stems from the games design philosiphy. Everyone is equal, everyone is special and everyone gets credit for everything.

In traditional MMO’s you have to compete for kills and resources and loot from bosses. This means you have a much higher overall rarity to items that drop because only 1 person gets it. In GW2 EVERYONE gets full rewards for everything. This means the items are significantly less rare and mostly seem like junk because everyone is getting them.

Getting a rare (blue) item in a traditional MMO is rewarding and makes you feel accomplished. In GW2 getting a rare (yellow) item seems like a waste of time because everyone is getting yellow items.

That is why loot seems like crap in GW2.

It’s actually simpler than that. Loot seems like crap in GW2 because it is crap. In other competitive games like WoW RNG is on your side. Good, exciting, loot will simply be yours over time—you are rewarded for playing the game, which is as it should be. In GW2, not so much. The experience here is crap, crap, and more crap over time. The simple answer is that this is because of a bad loot system. It’s actually that simple.

I’ve said this for years, some games are pro player some are pro game. GW2 seems to think a groin shot each time we open a chest promotes us to play more, and keep coming back. OR buy something. The exact opposite is happening. Players are leaving.

And your solution with no negative side effects is what? Every chest drops a top tier item? Bosses drop currency and after 50 world bosses and your character is fully geared with best in slot? Bosses drop upgrades with low frequency but the upgrade is insignificant enough so it doesn’t really advantage the players that get the drops over the players that don’t? Upgrades are put out in such a way that some players have significantly better gear than others at 80 and those that don’t have the upgrades settle for being weaker characters or have to grind out gear to try to keep up with everyone else?

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Raine.1394:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem ultimately stems from the games design philosiphy. Everyone is equal, everyone is special and everyone gets credit for everything.

In traditional MMO’s you have to compete for kills and resources and loot from bosses. This means you have a much higher overall rarity to items that drop because only 1 person gets it. In GW2 EVERYONE gets full rewards for everything. This means the items are significantly less rare and mostly seem like junk because everyone is getting them.

Getting a rare (blue) item in a traditional MMO is rewarding and makes you feel accomplished. In GW2 getting a rare (yellow) item seems like a waste of time because everyone is getting yellow items.

That is why loot seems like crap in GW2.

It’s actually simpler than that. Loot seems like crap in GW2 because it is crap. In other competitive games like WoW RNG is on your side. Good, exciting, loot will simply be yours over time—you are rewarded for playing the game, which is as it should be. In GW2, not so much. The experience here is crap, crap, and more crap over time. The simple answer is that this is because of a bad loot system. It’s actually that simple.

I’ve said this for years, some games are pro player some are pro game. GW2 seems to think a groin shot each time we open a chest promotes us to play more, and keep coming back. OR buy something. The exact opposite is happening. Players are leaving.

People are quitting because they have to craft good gear instead of seeing it drop?
Lol. Good riddance.

Will the loot dropped always be so abysmal?

Yes…sadly.

Its been that way for 18 months…since day 1.

GW2 loot system is designed around its crafting system, so if you love crafting, well this is the game for you.

If you like getting decent drops that your main or a alt can use, then its not going to happen…

I only play GW2 for the content…loots uninspired, boring, repetitive…generally trash.

Raine.1394:

For a lesson in how to design a loot system, I would suggest trying D3 ROS. Vanilla D3 was the worst possible way to misunderstand the ARPG formula, but that is corrected, massively, with ROS. Just level a character in ROS and experience loot that is appropriate and rewarding. Most games get this fairly right, but GW2 and vanilla D3 are examples of games that are far off the mark.

It’s not completely fair to compare it to the Diablo series, especially Diablo 3 in which game progression is the same as gear progression, because the loot system is designed to reward you with massive boosts in power. It’s rewarding because you can see the drastic difference as your character levels and gets better gear. Vanilla D3 failed because the progression was too steep though of all honesty was fine until inferno mode until Blizzard decided the real money TP was a good idea.

This is also a key reason why Gw2 loot seems unrewarding, because the difference between ascended gear and weaker gear isn’t that much. With only several tiers of equipment, you’re obviously not going to get much stronger regardless of what drops. It’s no wonder why ascended crafting gets a lot of bashing— it’s almost a waste of time.

However, in terms of Gw2’s progression for aesthetics, I would still say the drop system is bad, and comparable to Vanilla D3 in being able to acquiring them through play— you’re better off buying it off the TP or what not. Much like Vanilla D3, it is much easier to farm gold and then buy stuff. There’s a horrific lack of in-between skins; they’re either really trivial or worthless or they’re rare and impossible to find— well, the way I see it most of the skins I could think of getting that have a unique look are in the gem store.

The other reason why Diablo loot worked, is that usually the harder content you tried, the better loot you got. This is something Gw2 could really look at.

Olvendred.3027:

Yes, there is DR. The game will stop rewarding you if you keep doing to same thing over and over.

But all games have abysmal loot. It’s the only possible way desirable loot is desirable – because it drops rarely. If it dropped all the time, it would be worthless (lots of supply) and people would complain about the abysmal loot.

How does that work exactly?

say someone who exclusively plays PvE content would that mean my drops get worse for playing only PvE or is it map exclusive or area exclusive etc?

I ask because despite my Magic find I find my drops to be utter junk most of the time
Im lucky if I find a couple of rares a day as random drops instead of guaranteed rares from boss events

and exotics HA im lucky if I find one of them a month.. and no im not joking
my Magic find is 130% right now

My gf who joined the Champ train in Frostgorge managed to obtain 7 Exotics in 1 hour

I spent 7 hours the next day farming the same champ train (something I never do normally) and I found 3 rares…

My Gf then farmed the train again on the same day for another hour finding 4 more exotics
and I’ll note that she has less than 10% Magic Find..

what the hell is up with that?

Another problem with the loot is how unexciting it is as vertical progression.

People look at the term “vertical progression”, and they automatically think, “heresy! I hate carrot-on-a-stick gear grinds!”

But vertical progression is not only that. The concept of playing a rpg, kiling a boss or finding a treasure, and getting a new gear piece that is better than what you currently have is very exciting, especially when you can notice the difference by looking to combat’s numbers. This is one the biggest means of appeal of the entire rpg genre.

When we look at games like Diablo II, those games are extremely exciting at that. You’re always getting and updating your gear through three difficulty modes. There’s so many exciting gear abilities that you want to try out, there’s the occasional unique items you can get, there’s the interesting abilities synergies you can get and in turn combine specific types of gear.

In GW2, that barely exists. Leveing to 80 is very fast, and most of the gear you get is through crafting. There’s no exciting gear abilities to synergize or try out, except for runes and sigils, but those are almost always either low level or extremely rare. There’s almost no food drops.

Do you remember finishing a boss, having them drop a piece of armor with a very exciting rune with some very exciting abilities, and wanting to try them out? Yeah, I don’t. The likelyhood of receiving 6 superior runes of the same type is laughable, and even then, not all runes are that exciting.

Unlike games that are masterful at this, like getting a new piece of gear in diablo II, reading abilities like “mana drain 10%, +5 health regeneration, 5% of fireball triggers on damage” and saying “WOW, I want to try that!!”, you only get mostly boring statistical buffs, you level to 80 very fast, you craft exotic gear very easily, and boom! it’s over, the fun with loot has ended.

DiogoSilva.7089:

it’s over, the fun with loot has ended.

Let me quote ArchonWing’s signature: “Aiming solely for the endgame is no less silly than renting a movie and skipping to the end.” x)

I don’t like vertical progressoin at all. I don’t see the point in farming or grinding stuff all day long for a couple of weeks or months to get some equip that will be outdated and pretty much useless as soon as the next patch or add-on arrives. I already got a job – don’t need another one in the games I play …

Feothyr.6072:

DiogoSilva.7089:

it’s over, the fun with loot has ended.

Let me quote ArchonWing’s signature: “Aiming solely for the endgame is no less silly than renting a movie and skipping to the end.” x)

I don’t like vertical progressoin at all. I don’t see the point in farming or grinding stuff all day long for a couple of weeks or months to get some equip that will be outdated and pretty much useless as soon as the next patch or add-on arrives. I already got a job – don’t need another one in the games I play …

I believe you have interpreted my post in the exact opposite way it was meant to. x)

I was not talking about the endgame, but everything else before the endgame. I was not talking about farming and grinding, neither, because farming and grinding is not exclusive to vertical progression, but to horizontal as well (look at how gw2 makes you farm to get skins). In fact, at the beginning of my post, I’ve made it clear that I was not talking about that kind of vertical progression.

The current loot system would be good if every event at least one person got something nice. As is, 99% trash.. the odd 1% loves crafting lol

DiogoSilva.7089:

(look at how gw2 makes you farm to get skins).

It doesn’t – skins are completely optional. Gear with better stats is not. ^^

Feothyr.6072:

DiogoSilva.7089:

(look at how gw2 makes you farm to get skins).

It doesn’t – skins are completely optional. Gear with better stats is not. ^^

Optional or not, if you want them, you must farm for them.

Their model is similar to the unworkable vanilla D3 model. They have conceived of GW2 as a circle trading game rather than a game where we experience the joy of actually finding loot. There is hope however as D3 ROS, with loot 2.0, rocks and is the game I am currently playing.

That said, Anet will need to become aware that there is a problem before any solution appears. I have no sense that they are aware of any problem with their loot system.

Feothyr.6072:

DiogoSilva.7089:

(look at how gw2 makes you farm to get skins).

It doesn’t – skins are completely optional. Gear with better stats is not. ^^

It is good to see the occasional player here that understands that vertical progression describes a non-optional system based on player coercion. Most people on the forums don’t understand the very simple gaming concept of vertical progression.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Optional or not, if you want them, you must farm for them.

Exactly, if I want them and only then!

The difference here is that I do not need these skins. In most games you are more or less forced to get better gear, because otherwhise you won’t be able to play new content – either because your character isn’t good enough for new encounters or because other players, who already got the new equip, refuse to play with you.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Another problem with the loot is how unexciting it is as vertical progression.

People look at the term “vertical progression”, and they automatically think, “heresy! I hate carrot-on-a-stick gear grinds!”

But vertical progression is not only that. The concept of playing a rpg, kiling a boss or finding a treasure, and getting a new gear piece that is better than what you currently have is very exciting, especially when you can notice the difference by looking to combat’s numbers. This is one the biggest means of appeal of the entire rpg genre.

When we look at games like Diablo II, those games are extremely exciting at that. You’re always getting and updating your gear through three difficulty modes. There’s so many exciting gear abilities that you want to try out, there’s the occasional unique items you can get, there’s the interesting abilities synergies you can get and in turn combine specific types of gear.

In GW2, that barely exists. Leveing to 80 is very fast, and most of the gear you get is through crafting. There’s no exciting gear abilities to synergize or try out, except for runes and sigils, but those are almost always either low level or extremely rare. There’s almost no food drops.

Do you remember finishing a boss, having them drop a piece of armor with a very exciting rune with some very exciting abilities, and wanting to try them out? Yeah, I don’t. The likelyhood of receiving 6 superior runes of the same type is laughable, and even then, not all runes are that exciting.

Unlike games that are masterful at this, like getting a new piece of gear in diablo II, reading abilities like “mana drain 10%, +5 health regeneration, 5% of fireball triggers on damage” and saying “WOW, I want to try that!!”, you only get mostly boring statistical buffs, you level to 80 very fast, you craft exotic gear very easily, and boom! it’s over, the fun with loot has ended.

That’s really quite your opinion unless you got stats to back that up. Personally, I don’t really find numbers exciting at all, in fact, I turn off my damage numbers whenever I can because it ruins immersion.

For me, what’s exciting is the look of the new armors, and using new skills. I personally think gear tiers is just the devs being lazy instead of actually putting out real, meaningful progression.

I don’t really see the difference between sigils and gear effects, except that sigils are more flexible and allows better costumization.

The fun with loot only starts at 80. Because that’s when you can really start gathering the better-looking gear in the game, and plan out your build properly. It just sounds to me that the game just isn’t for you because a lot of things like getting to 80 easily, having easy access to base exotics are stuff that the game was sold on.

Feothyr.6072:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Optional or not, if you want them, you must farm for them.

Exactly, if I want them and only then!

The difference here is that I do not need these skins. In most games you are more or less forced to get better gear, because otherwhise you won’t be able to play new content – either because your character isn’t good enough for new encounters or because other players, who already got the new equip, refuse to play with you.

GW2 still has 80 levels. It still has different gear tiers. It still has different tiers of food. And I’m not saying GW2 should have more tiers. I’m not saying that this game should be about forced grinding. I’m just saying that, what already exists – what is already there is not as exciting as it could have been.

Also, vertical progression is awesome. Just because that, in most MMORPGs, it sucks and is a massive grindfest, it does not means that the concept itself is bad. Just look at every single-player rpg out there: it is driven by vertical progression, and no one is complaining about that.

People don’t hate vertical progression. They hate grind-driven vertical progression.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I was showing some friends the game and they seemed to like it until they asked about loot. I tried to change the subject, and one said “Is it as terrible as GW1?” I had to answer yes. I told them of how the game was far better mechanics wise etc.. They didn’t seem to care. I guess some would call them loot monkeys. One then spoke up and asked if it had Anti farm code like GW1. I replied “To my knowledge no..”

DR is anti farm code, and yes the loot drops will mostly be abysmal.

Open world loot is horrible, but temple events in Orr and most dungeons give decent rewards.

With an effective Magic Find of around 180%, using food and an Ascended Trinket, I typically get one rare per dungeon path, sometimes as many as three (It feels just about on par with the rate we get ectos from salvaging). I get quite a few cores and lodestones from champion bags as well.

There is entirely too much junk though. The endless clicketty-click-clicking of sale and salvaging is a real chore.

Raine.1394:

Their model is similar to the unworkable vanilla D3 model. They have conceived of GW2 as a circle trading game rather than a game where we experience the joy of actually finding loot. There is hope however as D3 ROS, with loot 2.0, rocks and is the game I am currently playing.

Yep I really like the way D3 does loot now.

Lol. The joy of actually finding loot. Lol.

I agree that DR is a bad practice and a band aid, not a real solution. I also agree that some parts of the game has bad effort vs reward scale that disfavors the player. But it should be easy to see that GW2 isn’t trying to imitate D2/D3 loot system and in heart, isn’t completely relying on RNG.

That’s why we have various tokens we can exchange for unique rewards. As people looking to play this game with a WoW mentality will be disappointed, people who play this game with a D2/D3 mentality will also be disappointed.

The bottom line is: RNG is uninteresting. We don’t need more RNG in this game.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Also, vertical progression is awesome. Just because that, in most MMORPGs, it sucks and is a massive grindfest, it does not means that the concept itself is bad. Just look at every single-player rpg out there: it is driven by vertical progression, and no one is complaining about that.

People don’t hate vertical progression. They hate grind-driven vertical progression.

There’s a lot of truth to this. I maxed on Diablo 3 some days ago, looked at my character and went “Well, he’s done, no need to grind for gear anymore,” because the odds of me finding something better were really, really slim.

At least with GW2, I have the horizontal growth of lots of alts and crafting and plenty to zip around and do.

Xae Isareth.1364:

That’s really quite your opinion unless you got stats to back that up. Personally, I don’t really find numbers exciting at all, in fact, I turn off my damage numbers whenever I can because it ruins immersion.

I find numbers exciting, but not exciting enough. It’s much cooler when, instead of stat numbers, gear offers unique abilities that enhances or adds to your playstyle. Something that games like diablo among many others do. In GW2, that’s the purpose of runes or sigils – however, most (non superior) runes and most sigils only offer number buffs, which makes them pretty boring (especially to someone with your tastes). Especially for runes, most of the more creative effects are on the 4th and 6th bonus, and is extremely unlikely that you’ll gather 4 or 6 of the same (superior version of the) rune without mystic forge or the trading post. In other words, GW2’s current system only gets slightly more exciting at endgame, but by then, most of your progression experience is already done.

To give an example, let’s compare sigils and runes to FFVII’s materia due to similarities. In FFVII, the game is consistently giving you materia items with several creative effects, and the player is constantly tweaking their materia combos or slotting new materia in their gear. You don’t need to depend on RNG nor wait till end game to buy materia from a trading post. No, you’re having fun with the system the game brings through the entire game. The game knows how to keep you hooked with its systems from the very beginning to the very end.

Meanwhile, GW2 almost never gives us a reason to care – or have fun with – the sigils and the runes we obtain. Just like it doesn’t with its gear, and many other things. This ultimately makes GW2’s loot less exciting, because almost everything you get is either generic materials for crafting, general gold for trading post, or statistical buffs (that by your very own words, you admit it’s “boring”) that later turn into savage fodder. All dictated by RNG.

Feothyr.6072:

DiogoSilva.7089:

(look at how gw2 makes you farm to get skins).

It doesn’t – skins are completely optional. Gear with better stats is not. ^^

I disagree, I so disagree with this. Having better gear (in GW2, don’t know about other games) is optional as well. When I first started playing this game and had a level 80 warrior, my armor was somewhere between lvl 60 and 79 and my weapons between lvl 54 and 72. They were blues and greens and I didn’t even have a full trinket set. I eventually CHOSE to equip myself with exotic gear cuz I had the materials to craft one. I didn’t need it but it was a OPTION I had and I decided to take it.

And if you are going to say something like that in WvW or dungeons you need them, well no you don’t. If you want to be more effective then yes but it’s still a OPTION. You could also even take the OPTION of not doing WvW or dungeons if getting better gear for it was bothering you.

Never in this game have I ever done or needed to do something that made me have this 1 option; “Must get better gear”. And that is why I disagree.

I think the biggest imbalance that needs to be fixed is the loot-drop vs. gold-value issue.

If Anet wants a specific gold value for a given item, that’s fine. I can see how that is needed for the economy.

Where things completely stop making sense and float off into the Twilight Zone is when you would wind up making 10 or 12 times the amount of gold required to buy the item if you chose instead to farm until you got it as a drop.

That is where the problem is. Drop rates need to compliment desired trading post prices.

I went to farm for my T6 mats to make my legendary. By the time I was something like 25% done (after several months) with gathering them (including what I got from making 77 mystic clovers), I had enough gold to buy the rest and still have 100g left over (this would be like getting 25% map completion and then being able to just buy a “map completion” scroll for the rest. Quite “legendary”)

Optimally, the game would reward you for your effort in a manner that made spending gold only slightly more attractive. Currently the way things drop, gold is roughly the only option. In the long run, that is what armor, weapons, and everything else in GW2 boils down to: gold. The end game is gold, nothing more.

To be honest the loot is just fine. I get drops of yellows (often), exotics (sometimes) and level 30 fractal completion seems to have a 1/5 chance to give you an ascended. What more can you want? A rain of legendaries?

To compare that sure, in WoW raid bosses will be dropping the best in line armour, but even when you’re clearing them alone on an overleveled character you’ll always get loot for a different class than what you are.

I miss loot tables. Maybe not to the degree that they exist in other games, but I’d like to go somewhere and have a reasonable chance of specific items dropping. Dyes were pretty much the highlight of my drops, and since they’re not going to be drops anymore…. When everything is a worldwide drop, all you have is luck. It’s not about persistence or skill anymore, and what is the fun in that?

Guhracie.3419:

I miss loot tables. Maybe not to the degree that they exist in other games, but I’d like to go somewhere and have a reasonable chance of specific items dropping. Dyes were pretty much the highlight of my drops, and since they’re not going to be drops anymore…. When everything is a worldwide drop, all you have is luck. It’s not about persistence or skill anymore, and what is the fun in that?

Well
Specific champions can drop specific exotics
Specific world bosses and bosses in dungeons can drop exotics unique to them
Raid bosses (like Tequatl) can drop ascendeds unique to them
Fractals are the only place to get fractal weapons and also have an increased chance to give you ascendeds.

Hold on a sec here. People are trying to compare the loot systems of Diablo 3, an ARPG dungeon crawler focusing on vertical progression, with GW2, an MMORPG with ARPG elements focusing on horizontal progression?

What are you wanting from GW2 loot? For if they increase the loot drops of everything than everyone would have that item. This in turn means it loses its value in the long run.

This game has very little vertical progression and trying to compare Vanilla D3 and GW2 just doesn’t make much sense. In D3 the game is focused entirely on getting better gear. Also note even in D3 ROS doing harder content does not guarantee better gear. It increases the chance of getting it but does not guarantee it like some people were saying. GW2 doing harder content increases the chances of getting better gear. Killing a moa has a lot less chance at getting an precursor than killing a world boss.

Loot system wise GW2 is doing it correctly. Looking at everyone else ideas here would lead to economic ruin as it would devalue a huge amount of items (precursors and exotics).

I personally have never gotten a precursor from a drop and that’s to be expected. Precursors are meant to be rare drops like in D3 ROS to get a rare item (full set) it will take you awhile and are highly valued.

Your complaining about the loot system. Ok let us see you guys suggest a loot system that:

1. keeps the current method of rewarding everyone
2. without vertical progression
3. that provides non-abysmal loot without devaluing rare items.