Guild Wars 2

Well said.
I wouldn’t have a problem doing the achievements for the item, but is it worth all the grinding you need to do for it? nope not to me. I understand players out there who have physical limitations and problems with stuff like jumping puzzles, I never liked the linking of jump puzzles to anything other than achievements points, keep it in that role and don’t force to me to do them. Never mind that the jump function in this game never works properly well for me and maybe others.

I don’t like where these type of items are going, putting them in the legendary tier with heavy ties to the economy, prompting players to find gold one way or another. But nothing can do about that.

Just a shame for a great holiday where it’s suppose to be about fun, cheer, and joy, we have to grumble and mumble our way to a reward, or not bother at all.

Thank you for this. I appreciate it!

Great post op : )

I think this is the problem with HoT in general. “We want challenging content!” Unfortunately that is not all they want. They want there to be a caste system in the game. The haves(those with superior skills) and the have nots(those who don’t possess superior reflexes, dexterity, have disabilities…. etc) "We don’t want scrubs to have the same skins as we do.

HoT has changed Gw2 from what was mostly a cooperative game mindset into a competitive game mindset.

This was very eloquent and I applaud your ability to write so concisely about these issues. I agree with you and erm … hope things change. Otherwise if there’s a better mmo coming out let me know o.o

While well written, I have to disagree with you.

You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done. If we hand out items to every player with minimal effort no one has any reason to put any effort into it. That is what’s killing WoW btw. You give to one hand by taking from the other.

I don’t have Winters Presence or Nightfury and I never will, I dont have the time to grind out the parts for them. But I have absolutely no problem with that. I know my limitations, I know what it is that I deserve based on what I’ve put in. I don’t feel that I deserve it despite being unable to put the effort in to getting it. And that’s fine, because people like me make those items all the more great for the people who have them.
If we all had them, they stop being special.

My issue with this isn’t that items like this are locked behind a grind it is that ALL skins they add in this game more or less are sitting behind a huge grind or the gem store, I get the company has to make money but you’re really gonna charge me 150 gems for a festive hat for the holidays? Items like that with little prestige that are only seasonal can’t be earned during seasonal events?

+1 x1000 if I could. Thank you for your understanding and empathy.

I could not disagree with you more.

Its this mentality that everyone should have everything regardless of effort put forth that wrecks games. Not that I’m not sympathetic to those who cant get the stuff they want, but like playing CoD/BF/WoW/any game and complaining that you cant do X because its hard and it should be nerfed to fit you, It’s just silly.

In addition the game has so many cool looking kitten near free items that you can use to make your character look cool. (I got mine looking that way i want with 800 gems and some teq runs)

BTW I will not be getting winters day presence this year, I want it BUT I don’t have the time so I wont be. I want it but 10k drinks is 9k drinks to many IMHO.

Negrudamus.7581:

I could not disagree with you more.

Its this mentality that everyone should have everything regardless of effort put forth that wrecks games. Not that I’m not sympathetic to those who cant get the stuff they want, but like playing CoD/BF/WoW/any game and complaining that you cant do X because its hard and it should be nerfed to fit you.

In addition the game has so many cool looking kitten near free items that you can use to make your character look cool. (I got mine looking that way i want with 800 gems and some teq runs)

BTW I will not be getting winters day presence this year, I want it BUT I don’t have the time so I wont be. I want it but 10k drinks is 9k drinks to many IMHO.

This issue has little to do with effort and more about exclusivity. The other threads have proposed very reasonable alternatives to the acquisition of this skin: tokens, for example, which can be earned via every Wintersday activity or dailies.

I agree that this is a game and it’s meant as something that is supposed to be fun for folks, which is why I urge people to do the stuff that is fun and avoid the stuff that’s boring or overly frustrating. Not everyone is going to complete every achievement and there are always going to be items we covet but can’t have.

That’s not a bad thing . This game has so many shinies that are easily obtained, why can’t it have a few that are really challenging, either in skill or invested time or both?

I doubt I’ll go for Winter’s Presence because I don’t have the patience to learn the JP (I’ve spent time in it before and enjoyed the effort; I don’t enjoy it any longer). And I don’t see a problem with that — it’s not my cup of tea, but that leave a ton of other chieves and items that are still within my ability to earn.

CIndeR.3479:

You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done.

Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.

When you make content that is especially difficult or impossible for players with disabilities to do part of a requirement for an event, item or story, then you are actively excluding players. You are making them less than the other players.

Imagine you are a brown eyed person, and you enjoy a game. Most of the time, the colour of your eyes has no impact on your gameplay; you make some adjustments, you avoid optional content that is difficult for you, and you keep playing. Then they start adding required content that works better for blue eyed people. Blue eyed people can get through it just fine, so can green eyed people… but for brown eyed people, it is difficult, even physically debilitating and harmful.

And people’s response to that? To tell you to suck it up, quit whining, just ‘keep practicing’, to not expect the devs to make it ‘easier’ for you, because that ruins it for everyone else. All because you want equal access to the game.

This whole attitude is exactly why, when I got violently ill playing a particular HoT story mission, I wrote directly to GW2 support… only to be told I needed to go post on the forum, because that’s where the Devs are.

I didn’t want to post here on the forum, because despite it being 100% better than most MMOs, it is still filled with people who would happily insult me, belittle me, and berate me for trying to ‘ruin’ their game, just because I expect better out of ANet- not content that is deliberately designed to trigger physical disability.

I never had trouble getting an event or festival skin before the release of HoT. Nightfury and Winter’s Presence have taken things to an insane level. Jumping puzzles never were required for skins in vanilla gw2. I guess those skins are “cheapened” though.

kitten , I thought I bought an rpg not a platformer.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.

When you make content that is especially difficult or impossible for players with disabilities to do part of a requirement for an event, item or story, then you are actively excluding players. You are making them less than the other players.

Imagine you are a brown eyed person, and you enjoy a game. Most of the time, the colour of your eyes has no impact on your gameplay; you make some adjustments, you avoid optional content that is difficult for you, and you keep playing. Then they start adding required content that works better for blue eyed people. Blue eyed people can get through it just fine, so can green eyed people… but for brown eyed people, it is difficult, even physically debilitating and harmful.

And people’s response to that? To tell you to suck it up, quit whining, just ‘keep practicing’, to not expect the devs to make it ‘easier’ for you, because that ruins it for everyone else. All because you want equal access to the game.

This whole attitude is exactly why, when I got violently ill playing a particular HoT story mission, I wrote directly to GW2 support… only to be told I needed to go post on the forum, because that’s where the Devs are.

I didn’t want to post here on the forum, because despite it being 100% better than most MMOs, it is still filled with people who would happily insult me, belittle me, and berate me for trying to ‘ruin’ their game, just because I expect better out of ANet- not content that is deliberately designed to trigger physical disability.

I dont think anyone should be belittled for anything. But asking for content to be easier because it is difficult for you or for certain people is a very slippery road.

I am colorblind. Many traps, and tell rings (like the ones in the winterday JP) are extremely difficult for me. I have to work extra hard and put in more effort because I am disabled in the visual department.

But I have absolutely no problem with that!

I have to work hard, so what? I get slammed in the face all the time with skritt thrown snowballs that I cant see coming very easily because the ring matches the color of the ground to me. Is it frustrating, yes, but I am not going to demand that ANet change the game for me or to make getting the shoulders easier for everyone just so I have an easier time.
That would be incredibly selfish of me. And that is precisely how I feel about others who do do this, it is nothing less than being selfish.

I am also poor enough that I can’t afford anything from the gem store. I don’t complain about it because why should I deserve something I have not earned?

I am sorry, I am equally empathic towards others disabilities as I’m sure they are toward mine, but people need to understand their limitations. Work toward the things they CAN get rather than trying to ruin everyone else’s experience by cheapening their victories.

Well said, this is wonderful post.

I am one of the person that cannot affort to 2 hrs per day after marriage. I checked my play per day on gw2efficieny that i am still under 2 hr per day. That fact is i found i play a lot more before getting married.

I can spend 6+ months to finish one gen 1 legendary weapon but i cannot affort the time to join raid, not even able to finish any of the meta the event at 2 hours length. The game turned from a very casual friendly into a game that force you to sit in front of the computer 2+ hours everyday. This is not a GAME anymore.

Great post. glad we have someone like you in our community.
overall this entire fiasco of hate and frustration is totally the result of bad game design.

even more evident during these limited time holiday events in which the players are supposed to be enjoying the limited time availability of the activities, given a exclusive item for being a active player during the event, and overall enjoy the whole vibe of the thing.

overall this winters-day and the last Halloween have been the worst in game holiday events in the history of gw2 in recent memory
in halloweens case the event was paled as key activities were removed and the entire thing was catered to the minority of the rich playerbase.

ideally a holiday event is supposed to be a special entertaining time for players having access to activities they normally don’t have access to and or have looked forward too as well as unique rewards which should be available to average players that are actively and naturally participating in the event.
so that they can enjoy the event if active enough get a exclusive item as a reward for being a active player of gw2.

this game does not need ultra rare hard to get items during limited time events. it does not make the game fun for anyone but game whales (rl rich players) and in game economy sharks.

if any item is added that’s ultra rare or hard to get it should not be during these holiday events. or made a limited time exclusive item. it just frustrates people and ruins the spirit of the holiday as when they were once taking their time and enjoying their holiday they feel rushed to get a cool limited time item and then frustrated when they realize the ridiculous nature in getting the items.

10 thousand winters-day alcoholic drinks ? rounding to 500-800 gold in total if you purchased all of them off the tp? due to the current demand and drop rate
or 41-85 HOURS of non stop jumping puzzle madness for the presents in order to get the drinks? how is that fun for the majority of the loyal gw2 player base?

Chaos.3579:

this game does not need ultra rare hard to get items during limited time events. it does not make the game fun for anyone but game whales (rl rich players) and in game economy sharks.

But their existance doesn’t make it any less fun for those who can’t get the item (unless you have an entitlement complex like many have these days). Us normal people aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to go for these ultra rare items. No one said you had to get the shoulders, it is a premium item there for the few players will/able to get it, and good for them. The rest of us casual players should be content with all the other cool stuff in the event rather than fixating on the one thing we can’t have.
This entitlement complex people have developed is ridiculous, just because it exists in the game doesn’t mean you deserve it without earning it. Many items in the game many of us will never have because we will never earn them, but why take that away from those who can?

As long as RNG isn’t involved I am fine with however they want to implement stuff.

CIndeR.3479:

But their existance doesn’t make it any less fun for those who can’t get the item (unless you have an entitlement complex like many have these days). Us normal people aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to go for these ultra rare items. No one said you had to get the shoulders, it is a premium item there for the few players will/able to get it, and good for them. The rest of us casual players should be content with all the other cool stuff in the event rather than fixating on the one thing we can’t have.
This entitlement complex people have developed is ridiculous, just because it exists in the game doesn’t mean you deserve it without earning it. Many items in the game many of us will never have because we will never earn them, but why take that away from those who can?

you did not read the part where i said “during limited time events”

its fine if expensive items are added that some players if they have the money can get in a day. however the availability of that item needs to exist forever so that players that cant get it instantly are not frustrated at what they need to do in such a short window of time.

for example if the legendary weapon twilight was ONLY available for 2 weeks. say at the start of the first Halloween event. and only a few select rich people were able to get that item. how would you feel?
it took me over a year to get my twilight yet i know some people that have gotten a twilight in a single day because they felt like dropping hundreds of dollars on gems because they felt like it.
it increases the gap between the player base when only the rich can get the exclusive items rather than everyone in their own time.
as that favors a minority of the player base in terms of whats fun for who.

so any single exclusive limited time item thats not sellable should be made for the majority of the active loyal player base.

and if a difficult item is added for the rich to get that item needs to be made available through the extensive passage of time for everyone else that wants it.

Oh boy, here we go again with the “entitlement complex” accusations. No one is asking for free skins. I earned a bunch of skins and items in the game before the release of HoT. For example, I worked for the selfless potion which was part of the Lion’s arch events. It wasn’t given to me but it had a reasonable way to achieve it.

Nightfury and Winter’s Presence requirements are just ridiculous.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Oh boy, here we go again with the “entitlement complex” accusations. No one is asking for free skins. I earned a bunch of skins and items in the game before the release of HoT. For example, I worked for the selfless potion which was part of the Lion’s arch events. It wasn’t given to me but it had a reasonable way to achieve it.

Nightfury and Winter’s Presence requirements are just ridiculous.

i actually farmed for the selfless and selfish potions…..many a pile of rock farmed over 2 weeks.

Hey Eleri, if you don’t mind saying, was it seizure inducing elements or migraine inducing elements (or something else) in HoT and if so, is it possible to describe where? I don’t have the expansion but if I do later I don’t want a nasty surprise x.x

Dashingsteel.3410:

Oh boy, here we go again with the “entitlement complex” accusations. No one is asking for free skins. I earned a bunch of skins and items in the game before the release of HoT. For example, I worked for the selfless potion which was part of the Lion’s arch events. It wasn’t given to me but it had a reasonable way to achieve it.

Nightfury and Winter’s Presence requirements are just ridiculous.

If it isn’t an entitlement complex than what is it? Demanding elements of the game that you deem too difficult be easier just so that you can get them can be called little else. And if the developers did bow to this and made it easier, how much easier? What about the people that still get left behind and still find it too difficult. The ONLY solution to some people finding something too difficult is to give it to everyone. So if that isn’t what you are asking then what is, because anything you say that isn’t asking for it for free will be alienating SOMEONE still.

And do remember that I probably have less than most people, most likely less than you. I’m a casual player. I have exactly 2 ascended items and that was from laurels that I’ve accumulated over the 2 years I’ve played and about 200gp to my name. I am casual and I know that. I play the game because I find it fun, not because I need all teh lootz!
People need to stop demanding more for doing less, you get what you earn! Just play the game and enjoy all the rest of the awesome stuff they give us (for free btw) instead of whining about the the stuff someone else gets for working harder for it than you did.

I couldn’t agree more. gg unistalling… cya gw2

My biggest concern about Winter’s Presence is about it being somewhat, and without further information, time limited.
IMHO both the candy and spirit ahievements (the most grindy ones by far) should be moved to the Community achievement tab, so they won’t disappear by the end of the Wintersday event and could be eventually completed through several years (in fact, I would like to see the festival tab becoming permanent instead of getting a new one every year while the previous ones go to the historical tab).

The quantity itself isn’t really that bad.
Yes, it definitely prevents some people from getting the item, but at the same time it also ensures Wintersday Gifts retain some value, which allows players which might not be so interested in the shoulders to get some gold and buy something they truly like.
If the quantity was low enough so every player could get it though a moderate investment, then gifts would worth next to nothing and we would have another subset of players complaining about what a waste of time the festival is.

I can’t really agree with the disability part.
While making these festivals more inclusive than usual makes total sense to me, we need to be careful about how low we set the bar.
There are still some of us for whom beating a challenge is an important part of gaming and being able to fail something is absolutely necessary to make it fun.
Not a big problem for single player games since those usually come with a difficulty bar (the difficulty standards seems to have drop A LOT in these modern days though) and, since they are isolated enviroments, it’s usually possible to handycap oneself or set ones own challenges if further difficulty is needed.
MMOs, however, are a different kind of beast. There’s a standard difficulty and a shared economy for everyone (which makes handycaping oneself something you might do once or twice for fun but which you will avoid most of the time), so there needs to be a middle ground. Some players need to accept that some activities may be too difficult, frustrating or unfun for them, while others have to do the same with content so easy that’s not even worth playing.
I don’t find the JP difficult at all and I can hardly believe there’s a significant amount of people which finds impossible to completre it just three times in a reasonable amount of time.
That being said, I’ve no problems with having it nerfed for Christmas shake. However, I hope you can also understand that if you give me a straight clear road instead, I’m going to find it far less appealing (and I’m not exactly having a blast farming it).

Thank you for taking the time to write that post AlienMenace.
+1

Happy Winterday!

I really don’t see a problem with it.

Yes, its a holiday. But I don’t see why that means you can’t have a single item that’s more difficult to get. If people don’t want to waste their holiday grinding for a hard-to-get item or flat out can’t get it at all, then so be it. Its not like this one item is the entire point off the festival and without it there’s nothing to do and nothing to earn. Its one reward that goes a step beyond for people who want to work a bit harder and have the capability to do so.

Maybe there wouldn’t be so much outcry if they had added more new stuff besides just Winter’s Presence. And that I can agree with. Halloween this year had a good number of new shinies to get besides just the bat shoulder, where with Wintersday there’s not much new beyond that and some guild décor. So it could be funneling everyone’s attention toward the one new item and then disappointing people with the fact they can’t get it. Some other, non-elite items may have dispersed the attentions of some people.

But even then, its more of a “well, it would have been nice” type situation than a “OMG this is awful why would you do such a horrible thing” one, IMO.

noraia.8570:

Hey Eleri, if you don’t mind saying, was it seizure inducing elements or migraine inducing elements (or something else) in HoT and if so, is it possible to describe where? I don’t have the expansion but if I do later I don’t want a nasty surprise x.x

It was kinetosis- motion sickness without actual physical motion. I managed to finish the mission before it hit migraine stage, but not before the debilitating nausea and vertigo. It’s the first part of HoT Act 4, and it is deliberately designed to be disorienting- which is why I have such an issue with the design decision. It isn’t just hard, it is meant to make you dizzy. Several of the HoT zones are nausea triggering, too- narrow passages, lots of jumping, gliding and not being able to tell exactly where you are in reference to things. I’m pretty much exclusively playing in Auric Basin because of it.

CIndeR.3479:

I am colorblind. Many traps, and tell rings (like the ones in the winterday JP) are extremely difficult for me. I have to work extra hard and put in more effort because I am disabled in the visual department.

Oh, it’s the old “I got over my issue, so should everyone else!” argument. You know what, that doesn’t make you sound “empathetic” to other disabled players, it makes you sound judgemental. You’re completely hooked on the idea that the disabled people raising their voices just aren’t trying hard enough and/or playing hard enough.

And you’re completely stuck on the “You want to make it easier!” thing. Until you get that making something accessible doesn’t mean making it easier, it means making it not a roadblock, and that designing game play to be accessible isn’t the same as taking away from people’s accomplishments, we’re not going to get anywhere.

You know they used to make the same argument about dropped curbs on sidewalks- they were an added expense, they were being installed for “the few”, no one really needed them, because they could just to X, Y, Z instead… and yet statistics showed the biggest early adopters weren’t the people in wheelchairs, it was the moms with strollers.

Making something accessible isn’t a “special accommodation” that takes away from others- in most cases being accessible benefits everyone.

CIndeR.3479:

While well written, I have to disagree with you.

You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done. If we hand out items to every player with minimal effort no one has any reason to put any effort into it. That is what’s killing WoW btw. You give to one hand by taking from the other.

I don’t have Winters Presence or Nightfury and I never will, I dont have the time to grind out the parts for them. But I have absolutely no problem with that. I know my limitations, I know what it is that I deserve based on what I’ve put in. I don’t feel that I deserve it despite being unable to put the effort in to getting it. And that’s fine, because people like me make those items all the more great for the people who have them.
If we all had them, they stop being special.

We’re talking about a holiday item though and the item only stops being special if you value it purely for the exclusivity. For many people, half or more of the appeal is the design itself, not the exclusivity.

You are trying to apply the generalized “make everything too easy and none of it matters” argument in a context where it simply does not apply. At least not with the same ease that it does in other situations.

In other words, if you’re going to make such an argument, find a way to apply it to the current situation. Don’t be lazy and send a boy argument to do a man argument’s job. Or, for the more socially progressive, send a boy/girl argument to do a man/woman argument’s job.

This winter’s presence issue may have some who are complaining about the general reward state of the game, but most appear to be complaining specifically about the main wintersday reward being a grindy slog that lacks any understanding of holiday social obligations or of differing skill levels / RL abilities.

+1, OP. And Happy Wintersday!

I have spent hours just trying to get into the jumping puzzle. ‘The world you are trying to enter is full….’ It has been full all night. And not being able to even enter the instance that will require hours upon hours of trial and error….well some of us have to work, have families, and can’t be in game for the length of time it will require to grind the drinks AND attempt the jumping puzzle even if we could get inside it. Pretty sure that no matter how hard I grind I will still not be able to get the shoulder piece…….

AlienMenace.7516:

But I have empathy. I know that not all people have the same options, and that that can be for real-life reasons beyond their control. I appreciate the people who know themselves well enough to know they can’t do this for reasons that are rooted in real life and are beyond their control. And I think that especially at the time of the winter holidays, we shouldn’t be telling these people they don’t deserve this, or that their real-life problems must also necessarily be in-game problems as well. It isn’t right, generally, but it especially isn’t right for the season.

Well said and not just players but arenanet need a dose of empathy.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Great post op : )

I think this is the problem with HoT in general. “We want challenging content!” Unfortunately that is not all they want. They want there to be a caste system in the game. The haves(those with superior skills) and the have nots(those who don’t possess superior reflexes, dexterity, have disabilities…. etc) "We don’t want scrubs to have the same skins as we do.

HoT has changed Gw2 from what was mostly a cooperative game mindset into a competitive game mindset.

Problem is for the most part the content isn’t challenging its just a grind.

This 10k drink thing is the kinda kitten I thought they left behind.
Seems like a bad attempt at playing on nostalgia, a nostalgia that most who went through the effort of doing, didn’t want to do again.

And I want to be clear, here; I’m resigned to not getting Winter’s Presence. It is an optional shiny that I don’t have the capacity to obtain. I’ll live without it, even if I get to where the JP is the only thing I have left to do.

I think people elsewhere in the forum have given several good ideas for making WP accessible, without diminishing the work that people who can do the jumping puzzle did- it is highly unlikely that the game would be retrofit to reflect those ideas.

I hope that, in the future, Anet will hear our voices and not put rewards behind non-accessible content. There’s plenty of ways to do that and still have challenge involved.

I also am very firm in my disappointment at the inclusion of a deliberately disabling ‘puzzle’ in non-optional story content. If anything in a game needs to be accessible and non-harmful to every player, it is the personal storyline content.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

You know what, that doesn’t make you sound “empathetic” to other disabled players, it makes you sound judgemental.

Good, because judgemental is exactly how I was trying to sound.
Yes I very much judge others who wish to take something from someone else just so they can have it and use their disability to justify it.

Now what is your proposal for making it more accessible to everyone while not also making it easier? I’m not saying such a thing can’t exist but so far I have heard: “Remove the JP from Requirements”, “Make it 1K not 10K”, and “Make it purchasable with tokens from gifts”. None of these things make it more accessible without also killing the items difficulty in obtaining it.
If a decent proposal were to come up I would very likely be on board. But while I am always on board for making content more accessible to players (I was on the frontlines of the argument against the Mastery gate for HoT personal story, and I authored a thread proposing a solo mode for dungeons for those who have difficulty with parties) I am very rarely going to agree with making special vanity items, that have no impact on a players ability to progress and experience the game, easier to obtain since that takes the vanity part out of it for those who have earned it.
I am always against taking from one hand to give to another.

I couldn’t agree more with the OP.

The moment threads like this stop popping up, is the moment Anet starts regarding it’s main player base and disregarding a small portion. Anet needs to realize, those people who play 2-3hrs per night, maybe 4-5 days a week are their main player base. This is where most everyone is sitting. Keeping that in mind, all items they release need to be centered around that populace.

This needs to happen this way because it is of no concern for one player to have any distaste or anger over how another player both: Plays the game & Acquires items. If a player feels that his/her effort is cheapened because another player got an item easier, that is their own problem. You worry about your own game.

The way Anet could fix this “right now” is remove the 10K drinks and either drop them to 1000 or 2500 (too bad for those may have blown the gold, that is your choice, you worry about you, and only you). Spread additional achievements across all 5 of the winter themed maps. Something diverse that players can do that is actually themed to the event. Not going directly to silverwastes to chest train for gold if you want the item.

The only way for something to be equally attainable for everyone, as has been requested here, is for there to be essentially zero effort or time requirement. The only thing that everyone has equal ability (or time) to do is…nothing.

CIndeR.3479:

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

You know what, that doesn’t make you sound “empathetic” to other disabled players, it makes you sound judgemental.

Good, because judgemental is exactly how I was trying to sound.
Yes I very much judge others who wish to take something from someone else just so they can have it and use their disability to justify it.

If you climb a tree to fetch an apple, you get an apple.
If someone gives me a ladder to help me fetch an apple, I get an apple.
We both get apples.

It is not “entitlement” to ask that a game stick to its original philosophy. In vanilla gw2 platforming was sideshow attraction. There was maybe a title and achievement points attached to them. Gaining skins or items was never attached to jumping puzzles.

With the introduction of HoT, the emphasis on platforming has skyrocketed. Skins, mastery points, and even the nature of the new maps require platforming. I bought an rpg not a platform game!!

I didn’t sign up for Mario Wars 2.

Never have asked that the skins are given to me. I already said I have earned other items and skins in game. I am asking for the process of acquisition to be akin to some of the great events in the past.

This thread’s opening post is nice. While I don’t even want to go for that skin at all, I can certainly understand the frustrations of those that do.

It’s not that people don’t want to give effort, it’s that the means of getting it are not friendly to those with little time or those who cannot deal with gimmicky jump puzzles, and that it probably isn’t fun for most involved.

I don’t mind giving effort for something I want in-game, as long as it’s reasonable. Unfortunately, it seems that more and more content so far is starting to demand unreasonable amounts of effort for some of the rewards.

And, spare me that exclusivity/prestige crap. Any argument in favor of that basically says “forget you, got mine, I got it, now I don’t want you to have a chance at it”.

I got called an Autist the other day, don’t even know what that means but it made me feel bad It was my first time on Dragon Stand map…

I can’t agree with this…I have a disabled cousin,he is like a brother,i was there when he wasn’t disabled,i was there during the surgeries that left him disabled,he was a gamer,not anymore since he can’t use one of the arm but should games develop or change stuff for him or any other disabled gamer out there? No!(color blind is an exception,can be fixed easily more or less)
The reason for that is simple,ppl want challenging content,without challenging content,an mmorpg slowly dies,look at GW2,they had to make an expansion that focuses more or less on spending a lot of time to get something,making it challenging.
What you ask is less challenging stuff.
Now let’s talk why should a gaming company create something for a small minority who can probably bring low income.There are disabled people who can work but many can’t,a business who focuses on people who can’t bring income sounds like suicide…
I am sorry if i sound like an kitten,i wish my cousin could play any game and i wish every gaming company would develop games for him but that doesn’t mean it’s correct…

(Edit: Forgot to mention,i didn’t get the previous shoulder skin and i will probably not get this one,i have a job, I work a lot but if i can’t get it…i don’t go on the forum asking for stuff to become easier to get)

Makai.3429:

If you climb a tree to fetch an apple, you get an apple.
If someone gives me a ladder to help me fetch an apple, I get an apple.
We both get apples.

A more accurate analogy would be: “If someone cuts down the tree you get an apple”
But now you’ve just cut down someones tree, someone who actually enjoyed climbing it.

Well Anet has certainly cut down my tree by changing their philosophy on platforming. I actually enjoyed earning skins previous to HoT. Now that platforming is involved not so much.

When a game required a player to sit tight in front of the computer 2 hours+ straight otherwise you can’t finish part of the game content or aquire some item. It is no longer a game. How many 2 hours we got pet day? Thats 1/12 of our life and it is crazy demanding.

Last i check my play per day i am still sitting at 2hrs per day but you know what? I am already playing more than 55% of the whole player base. Yet i am not able to run any contents that require 2 hrs+. That mean there are majority of players are much casual than Anet expected.

I actually prefer RNG and TP when it comes to item aquire. At least the contents are reasonably created. We are not forced to do super long contents and still get the same chance aquiring items. It was once the beautiful of GW2 but it is no longer the case now.

Crossaber.8934:

When a game required a player to sit tight in front of the computer 2 hours+ straight otherwise you can’t finish part of the game content or aquire some item. It is no longer a game. How many 2 hours we got pet day? Thats 1/12 of our life and it is crazy demanding.

Last i check my play per day i am still sitting at 2hrs per day but you know what? I am already playing more than 55% of the whole player base. Yet i am not able to run any contents that require 2 hrs+. That mean there are majority of players are much casual than Anet expected.

I actually prefer RNG and TP when it comes to item aquire. At least the contents are reasonably created. We are not forced to do super long contents and still get the same chance aquiring items. It was once the beautiful of GW2 but it is no longer the case now.

Two hours per day is half of our lives?

Dashingsteel.3410:

Well Anet has certainly cut down my tree by changing their philosophy on platforming. I actually enjoyed earning skins previous to HoT. Now that platforming is involved not so much.

You understand that you are still not required to actually do any platforming right? You can go through the entire game, experience every map and you still wont ever need to do any platforming. But those who enjoy platforming as well should be rewarded for their efforts. It’s like Dungeons, The very best stuff in the game is in dungeons. I hate dungeons with a passion, so I don’t go in dungeons. I don’t go on the forums and whine that I should get those things too despite being unwilling to put in the effort to do them. Dungeon runners go the extra mile and they should be rewarded for it.
I completely agree that if actual game content were gated behind a platform, like part of a map or something then you would be absolutely right, I’d be right there with you. But there is nothing but a single skin designed to be acquired only by the most elite of us gated behind that platform…one skin…and people are losing their minds over that. Its ridiculous…

To get Winter’s Presence you are required to finish the winter jumping puzzle 3 times. I believe that would be a platforming requirement.

CIndeR.3479:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Well Anet has certainly cut down my tree by changing their philosophy on platforming. I actually enjoyed earning skins previous to HoT. Now that platforming is involved not so much.

You understand that you are still not required to actually do any platforming right? You can go through the entire game, experience every map and you still wont ever need to do any platforming. But those who enjoy platforming as well should be rewarded for their efforts. It’s like Dungeons, The very best stuff in the game is in dungeons. I hate dungeons with a passion, so I don’t go in dungeons. I don’t go on the forums and whine that I should get those things too despite being unwilling to put in the effort to do them. Dungeon runners go the extra mile and they should be rewarded for it.
I completely agree that if actual game content were gated behind a platform, like part of a map or something then you would be absolutely right, I’d be right there with you. But there is nothing but a single skin designed to be acquired only by the most elite of us gated behind that platform…one skin…and people are losing their minds over that. Its ridiculous…

As much as I disagree with the OP, I cannot agree with this either. Gating exclusive rewards behind content of this sort is inappropriate IMO.

This is a delicate subject, indeed.

While I too, have empathy towards those that literally can not do this collection due to physical impairment(s) etc, I can not see any constructive alternative suggestions by OP in regards to obtaining specific items.

• instead of completing Bell Choir, another alternative could be to defeat X amount of creatures OR complete X treasure hunt to create the item required in the Mystic Forge

That is one suggestion I can think of, yet it trails back to what I originally wanted to mention in regards to rewards being locked behind certain things.

We have mystic forge recipes, treasure hunts, slay X of this or craft X of that… Now all of a sudden we are delivered with a Jumping Puzzle to complete and I think this may be the devs wanting to try out something different other than the usual requirements for things.

Change is a good thing from the same old typical routine.

It is unfortunate that yes, it may well and truly be impossible for those with certain disabilities to complete such a task but I agree in sense – The collection requirements could have been more alternative friendly.

I am open minded about this topic in general but I also agree with what others are stating in this thread in regards to rewards. Some things just aren’t supposed to be handed out to everyone.

Luckily, this specific collection item is obtainable outside of the seemingly impossible. It is buyable off the Trading Post.

A hefty cost but it is there as an alternative option if you seriously want that item.

The month is supposed to be full of joy & good times, it is unfortunate that these issues have impacted that in a negative way.