Guild Wars 2

Also here is the opinion from Brazil (another respected) youtuber. Enjoy.

He pretty much nailed everything he said here, all the while being totally unbiased by viewing each parties perspective. We’ve got to give WP credit here. He took this totally level-headed, analyzed each scenario and came up with his response.

I think what we should take away is: WP should be GuildWar’s 2 game director, he kitten nailed it.

swansea.2453:

Also here is the opinion from Brazil (another respected) youtuber. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwphpPDJWn4

Thanks for linking that one aswell.

I’m not to familiar with Brazil- But from what i remember, and someone may need to correct me? Wasn’t he one of the front-runners in really introducing the zerk meta to the game?

I could see a more “endgame” or “hardcore” player being more upset about this news.

That’s why i found Woodenpotatos video to be so surprising. Most of his videos are soloy based on the lore of Tyria. It’s easy to suspect he would be happy about this considering those people are being moved to living world content- and in watching both those videos- It seems WP is far more upset- i guess he even mentioned something about quiting aswell?

This to me really shows how invested a large range of players are, in obtaining new legendary weapons. I really wish they would reconsider going in this route.

The nice thing about comming late to these disscussion threads is (though I did watch WP video shortly after he put it up), I get to be really lazy since some smart person will usually already have said something I agree with saving me a lot of time typing.

Burtakus.1839:

The only thing that intrigued me about his video was at the end where he says “let’s not play the armchair game developer and pretend to know more than what an actual game developing company like ANet knows”. Which I wholeheartedly agree, we all love to talk out of our behinds while knowing absolutely nothing of the situation. Anyway, I just found it funny how he said that at then end after a 30 minute rant of him being exactly an armchair game dev.

This.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I don’t know where you guys get this whole “faithful supporter” thing with WP. I’ve seen him rant about bad things in GW2 countless times. He’s ranted about the story in HoT, he’s ranted about gear prefixes and designs (particularly his inadequacy as a healer with a healer spec), I even saw a compilation video where he complained about all of the small things that were added/done to the game. The reason why I watch WP’s videos is because he’s actually fairly level headed.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Valky.2574:

Don’t you mean possible LAST video for gw2 .. he is thinking of quiting now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4c9r5d/wooden_potatoes_no_more_new_legendary_weapons_a/

3rd post or 2ed if you don’t count the topic

Eh, he said:

“I don’t like the sound of their future expansions at all if this is really where they think they should be, size wise. So in a world where that’s all they put out? For sure I’ll be moving on.”

He said something similar in the video, too. So, if Mo (and/or ArenaNet at large) come out and say “Yeah, we really do think HoT was the right size for a good expansion”, WP will be leaving the game. He didn’t say he’s leaving now or that this was his last video (or one of the last videos).

Problem is, Mike already did that.

Arenanet is an ideal driven company. You must not forget that. And as an ideal driven company, they’re all about the good feels and self esteem and non-judgemental attitudes. Dealing with the failings of HoT is hard because it makes you feel bad. So, to feel good about themselves, they’ll constantly reaffirm with each other that HoT was a good expansion, only talking about its good points. Everyone who disagrees is a hater, or a troll, or they’ll get over it. How can they not get over it, when HoT is such a good expansion?

So when Mike says he takes offense to the expansion not being complete, he’s not being disingenuous. He’s being sincere. Since he is sincere, that is the standard we can expect the next expansion to have. And the next one after that.

Though to be fair, I do think HoT catches a lot of flack where it shouldn’t. It isn’t as bad as people say. It has problems, but it isn’t as bad as people say.

and this.

This ofcorse won’t stop people going aps***t crazy over the April update if it doesn’t deliver. No matter that what ever goes into that update was decided weeks ago (things take time).

Personally I hope they start getting WvW right. Never been a big spvp person, but if they can make life a bit better for that crowd, go spvp. I don’t expect a lot of world breaking pve changes until mid or end of the year.

All that being said, it’s fine to take breaks. What I always loved about the GW games (both 1 and 2) was the ability to actually take a break, come back and enjoy the game to its fullest without having to worry about falling behind or having all my stuff go the way of the Dodo (hi there WoW with your new higher itemlevel gear every 2 months). As long as anet keeps the game within those parameters, I’m sure to keep playing, even if sporadically.

Random Wax Orc.7695:

My hopes for WvW are pretty low. The only reason it is on the April update list is that the amazing WvW upgrade with HoT completely tanked. I find it hard to get excited about a WvW renovation which is actually an attempt to undo the damage of the last WvW renovation. Nothing revolutionary is going to happen, unless the whole server system is revamped.

The 6 people [formerly] on Legendaries and 70 people on xpac2 is the issue that sticks in my craw. In many ways, HoT is still in early access yet the money I paid for it is ignored by Anet while they focus on money I might pay for xpac2. Xpac2 won’t ship as a complete product either, so not completing xpac1 means buying xpac2 is predetermined to be the same bad deal as xpac1. Xpac2 will not be completed because xpac3 will be more important as soon as xpac2 goes on sale. There is no end to this rabbit hole until a future xpac team gets reassigned to GW3 because GW2 became an endless train of broken promises that people stopped paying into.

I am still waiting to hear how I will get my money’s worth for xpac1. I haven’t even heard a hint of an apology for taking my money and not delivering what I paid for. I couldn’t really afford $50 for HoT, and now Anet’s focus is on charging me another $50 without honoring the value of the last $50.

I don’t much care for the fact that so many people are working on another expansion when there are so many glaring problems with the first one that aren’t being addressed. I think they’re overestimating how many people are going to pre-purchase and/or buy the next expansion. A lot of us feel we’ve been burned once already. I’m not interested in another expansion that is the same size as the last one for the same price with the same problems.

Wow Shaman too, Anet need to put out a statement soon on how they are going to fix this half expansion Mike’s PR disaster.

I can honestly say in this case that from day one of HoT, “I told you so.”

“The fact that they he doesnt think HoT was half an expansion ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIES ME!!!! Is THIS the amount of content we are to expect in the future?” I think this speaks volumes.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Even That_Shaman, the data miner, isn’t happy with this

No more White Knights for me

Shaman_Crinitus

I agree with you totally, and feel that I’ve gone through a lot of what you’ve gone through, except I haven’t tried many other games, just being bored AFK in DR. I’m done white knighting for ArenaNet. I used to be one of the biggest voices on their side, but with how they’re treating me, treating us, and failed to deliver the product they advertised, I’m calling it quits for all the apologizing. They don’t deserve it anymore.

I wonder how many people it takes to put their foot down, for them to see what’s wrong and make the changes that are actually necessary, not what they think are necessary. They’re very out of touch with their players, have always been, and will always be unless they change something fundamental. You know all the money I spend on the game will dry up if they don’t keep me entertained, and I’m definitely not unique.

unless That Shaman has a 2nd reddit account, that is a different person.

Like a math teacher once said extra credit is not credit instead of. Get your homework done first and then do some extra credit. Bunny Ears and other good things during the March sale are an example of extra credit, or in our case credit instead of. Fluff is nice but you need to have a solid foundation to support it. Street Fighter 5 for example has very little fluff, the core mechanics and excellent balance being the main drawing point (since it’s mostly PvP) and what little fluff is there (story mode and outfits earned through beating survival mode) is good.

Guild Wars 2 likewise has some decent fluff already (Various story modes and skins for example) but some core balancing issues need to be looked at especially in PvP.

froacus.6892:

Rauderi.8706:

swansea.2453:

How do people feel and what do you think about WoodenPotatoes latest video?

Don’t care, and never will, about one doof’s opinion. We have an entire player base to be concerned about, not just slaves to some streamer.

Swing and a miss.

WP discusses issues facing the GW2 community in a logical, salient manner. You don’t have to agree with him to be able to watch the video and see if his ideas/content have any value. Maybe you completely disagree- and that’s totally fine. (I’m assuming here) that the whole point of this thread and WP’s videos are to start/have a conversation about what the community feels are important issues. The video is at least worth a listen.

I’ve been on this sinking ship as long as anyone else. I’d have to be particularly sated with GW2 to be unaware of why this game is struggling. There are enough mass communication methods that we don’t need one kewkew with a webcam telling us what’s wrong. We already know.

ekkue.3754:

unless That Shaman has a 2nd reddit account, that is a different person.

This. I’m not sure either way, but the names at least are different.

Rauderi.8706:

froacus.6892:

Rauderi.8706:

swansea.2453:

How do people feel and what do you think about WoodenPotatoes latest video?

Don’t care, and never will, about one doof’s opinion. We have an entire player base to be concerned about, not just slaves to some streamer.

Swing and a miss.

WP discusses issues facing the GW2 community in a logical, salient manner. You don’t have to agree with him to be able to watch the video and see if his ideas/content have any value. Maybe you completely disagree- and that’s totally fine. (I’m assuming here) that the whole point of this thread and WP’s videos are to start/have a conversation about what the community feels are important issues. The video is at least worth a listen.

I’ve been on this sinking ship as long as anyone else. I’d have to be particularly sated with GW2 to be unaware of why this game is struggling. There are enough mass communication methods that we don’t need one kewkew with a webcam telling us what’s wrong. We already know.

I may be mistaken, but I believe part of the intention is that Wooden Potatoes may have a measure of presence to Anet. At least he’s visible enough that there is an in-game reference to him(Maguuma Burl).

Dinks.2478:

“The fact that they he doesnt think HoT was half an expansion ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIES ME!!!! Is THIS the amount of content we are to expect in the future?” I think this speaks volumes.

I agree, on paper the expansion seems full but when you actually play it it certainly does not feel complete. I think the issue here is people like Mike O’Brien that have seen and probably tried the expansion but mainly read/directed its contents on paper but never actually played it through.

Anyway, as to Wooden Potatoes video he has some really good points, definitely a must watch for any developer at Arena Net.

Ticky.5831:

I may be mistaken, but I believe part of the intention is that Wooden Potatoes may have a measure of presence to Anet. At least he’s visible enough that there is an in-game reference to him(Maguuma Burl).

Heh, okay, I’ll be less triggered here. :P

Seen him post on reddit, and he seems reasonable and whatnot. Actually, no strikes against him personally, if I’m honest. He does content to bring people to a game I (used to) love.

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

As if the suspension of Legendary development was somehow the biggest sin in game? Because we’ve been pointing out gamedev sins for well over six months.

Im personally frikkin happy that Mike is thinking in a bigger picture. " I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front." – Mike o Brien.

Living world was their selling point and they stopped doing that for an entire year and thats what made most players angry and the trust got lower and lower in Anet. A mix of expansion & living world, to focus on that, is the right direction. Legendary weapons are just skins people…Remember that most people that play gw2 are casual players and they dont sit with tons of gold to buy legendaries left and right. Its right what they do, focus on your biggest playerbase aka casual players and follow your selling point aka manifesto, because thats why people bought gw2.

RoseofGilead.8907:

ekkue.3754:

unless That Shaman has a 2nd reddit account, that is a different person.

This. I’m not sure either way, but the names at least are different.

Well, maybe I’m confused, I’ve seen this guy posting and seen videos of his Charr. Which looks like the Charr on the That Shaman videos.

Edit: since I may well be wrong, I’ll delete it. Thanks for pointing it out.

WP nailed it with that video. I’ve have felt this way since HoT was about 2 weeks old. I would say to myself, that’s all of it?? And yet it keeps getting smaller.

…and we give you new bubble Glider in gem shop, you asked for it….

hahahahahaha xD

Legendary? Nah, legendaries weren’t that important, it were never really important. The main point is that anet has been, always been under delivering, scrapping system and so on. People are aware of all of those subconsciously but consciously they are telling themselves otherwise by telling themselves so and so contents are great. The legendaries announcement simply a wake up call, people start to realize things that wasn’t delivered or under delivered or problematic, people start to look back all the things and begin piecing them together.

MO is indeed taking risky maneuver. Personally, I never expect them to deliver all the “promised” contents within this year but a lot of people are thinking otherwise. MO can easily choose to keep quiet and let it go by but he chose to be honest about it. Well, at least better than colin who just keep hyping things up, I always roll eyes when I read his announcements.

I think WP got this a bit wrong this time, the game went on a very stale mode being whatever mode it is, and the special weapons are anything that can be released at any time after Anet changes what they think they have to change.
Overall it is a good trade off if something has to be delayed, and IF legendaryes are the only thing that is end game.. well alot of things needs to be fixed if that is what only GW2 offers at the long run…

Legendaries arent discontinued, they were just delayed.

It was really a clever decision, but still the question imo would be : " in what are they working and how that will improve the game?".

Since gw2 to compete with other mmo’s that are showing up, would be the same as release an entire game with alot of new mechanics…

RoseofGilead.8907:

Valky.2574:

Don’t you mean possible LAST video for gw2 .. he is thinking of quiting now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4c9r5d/wooden_potatoes_no_more_new_legendary_weapons_a/

3rd post or 2ed if you don’t count the topic

Eh, he said:

“I don’t like the sound of their future expansions at all if this is really where they think they should be, size wise. So in a world where that’s all they put out? For sure I’ll be moving on.”

He said something similar in the video, too. So, if Mo (and/or ArenaNet at large) come out and say “Yeah, we really do think HoT was the right size for a good expansion”, WP will be leaving the game. He didn’t say he’s leaving now or that this was his last video (or one of the last videos).

Exactly, and when Mo expressed pride in HoT, Anet has already made clear that HoT is supposed to be more about “features” rather than content. Paving the way and making tools with which to make more content in the future. And I think in that regard he’s a little more justified with gliding, specializations, masteries, etc… And I think Anet has said future projects will focus on more content rather than features, so… we’ll see I guess…

Either way canceling legendaries is still really ugly imo, but hopefully it works out for the better.

psizone.8437:

I think he made a lot of good points and I hope Mike watches the whole thing if he gets the chance.

I think it’s pretty worrying that they’d prefer to cancel something that people were promised (Legendaries) instead of pulling some of the 70 people working on the next expansion (which doesn’t have a set release date) in order to make sure everything was shipped properly.

It makes it seem like the next expansion is more important to them than making sure their core game is working, we have enough content and everything is balanced.

Why are they working on a new xpac so soon ( i get that it takes a long while) but i would think (the first 6 months to maybe 1 year)working on the content updates and finishing those first would be a priority. and then reflecting back on what worked and what didn’t and designing better things would be the way to go.

Kelly.7019:

psizone.8437:

I think he made a lot of good points and I hope Mike watches the whole thing if he gets the chance.

I think it’s pretty worrying that they’d prefer to cancel something that people were promised (Legendaries) instead of pulling some of the 70 people working on the next expansion (which doesn’t have a set release date) in order to make sure everything was shipped properly.

It makes it seem like the next expansion is more important to them than making sure their core game is working, we have enough content and everything is balanced.

Why are they working on a new xpac so soon ( i get that it takes a long while) but i would think (the first 6 months to maybe 1 year)working on the content updates and finishing those first would be a priority. and then reflecting back on what worked and what didn’t and designing better things would be the way to go.

Yeah, I really agree with you on this. It just doesn’t make any sense to me to start a new expansion when the previous one still needs so much work…

Celtic Lady.3729:

Kelly.7019:

psizone.8437:

I think he made a lot of good points and I hope Mike watches the whole thing if he gets the chance.

I think it’s pretty worrying that they’d prefer to cancel something that people were promised (Legendaries) instead of pulling some of the 70 people working on the next expansion (which doesn’t have a set release date) in order to make sure everything was shipped properly.

It makes it seem like the next expansion is more important to them than making sure their core game is working, we have enough content and everything is balanced.

Why are they working on a new xpac so soon ( i get that it takes a long while) but i would think (the first 6 months to maybe 1 year)working on the content updates and finishing those first would be a priority. and then reflecting back on what worked and what didn’t and designing better things would be the way to go.

Yeah, I really agree with you on this. It just doesn’t make any sense to me to start a new expansion when the previous one still needs so much work…

Different people do different jobs.

Much of the art team need to have something to do. If you are an environment asset artist then you need to be making environmental assets. Unless LS3.0 is in all new maps like 2.0, they will need to be working on the new xpack. Otherwise, Anet is paying people to sit on their hands and no self publishing game company is going to do that.

A HUGE part of any content addition is the conceptualization stage. You can’t start making assets until you know what the content will be and look like, nor can you code enemy behavior or events until you know what those will be.

Much of the finessing and finishing of HoT would be in the hands of coders, many of whom may not have anything to be doing right now in the current stage Xpac2 is in.

TLDR: Their post was grossly ambiguous as to what stage they are in and thus it’s not very reasonable to assume they are mismanaging their teams. “In Development” can mean basically Day 1 all the way to Launch Day.

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

I agree with what he says. And that ANet and Mo need a little time to show us what the triad off is going to be. I fully get why people are po’ed. But ANet should maybe even must tell us what we are getting from the loss of the legendary weapons team. And not something vague like we have now.

Anet must come with modes with huge replayability… the living story is a lot of work but people will play it once, maybe two times, the vets will play it as many times as they have characters, but that’s it. That’s always going to be the problem with vets. They’re gonna be busy for the time it takes to play the story, and then they’ll be bored again.

Work on Fractals, randomized content, work on stuff that will make people want to do it again and again and where their experience will never be the same.
Raids are one of those good things, but it is limited to a small niche. I consider SAB to be one of them too.

It would be interesting to know how much time is spent on storytelling (and its scripting) versus actual “content” (new maps, mobs, modes, events).
It’s not because you make story content with a LOT of scripting that the game’s value is gonna get higher. Look at games like Demon Souls, it didn’t need much storytelling to be considered great.

You can’t expect people to play the same boss everyday, same fractals, same story and be satisfied for months without anything new.

I spent I don’t know how many hundred of dollars on the gemstore, and I’ll be glad to do it again the day I’ll be as satisfied with GW2 as I was with GW1.

I think overall WP has been very…fair…in his assessment of the situation. At least he understands the real problem at hand.

This isn’t reeeeeeally about legendaries as it is about features that were supposed to come out years ago put behind the HoT paywall plus the scope of HoT at release plus the unfinished WvW plus the lack of new story anywhere except in raids and NOW the indefinite postponing of legendaries after they’ve been on the table since GW2 launched. It’s stagnation and not delivering on previous announcements that everyone is really frustrated about. Legendaries is just the latest thing on a pretty big pile. I don’t think so many people would be as upset if this happened earlier in the year.

Most of the above doesn’t affect me personally except for the lack of story. But that doesn’t make it any more okay. This is the end result of your mouth running faster than your feet and spreading yourself too thin. I’m glad Mike is trying to right the ship. We’ll see what comes out of it.

I don’t have all my eggs in the April basket. I’m committed at least for xpac 2 to see how things go. I get that it’s going to be a while before we see any benefits from this decision. Of course I’m going to stick around to see how it plays out. GW2 is pretty much the only MMO I have time to play and I’d probably be one of the last to leave because of that. But that hasn’t made the post-HoT era any less frustrating to witness.

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

If his opinion’s that important, he can post it himself.

The policy shift on legendaries signifies another disturbing shift in GW2’s development. But we knew that already. The “oh noes a streemur said” thing is just an unnecessary echo chamber. He’s not an industry insider or a developer, he’s a player. Like everyone else. It’s irresponsible to incite a panic just because he had a big huff in public.

I’d say the good thing about his video is that it highlights a point of conversation. A conversation that’s already started: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-weapons-6/first

Rauderi.8706:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

If his opinion’s that important, he can post it himself.

The policy shift on legendaries signifies another disturbing shift in GW2’s development. But we knew that already. The “oh noes a streemur said” thing is just an unnecessary echo chamber. He’s not an industry insider or a developer, he’s a player. Like everyone else. It’s irresponsible to incite a panic just because he had a big huff in public.

I’d say the good thing about his video is that it highlights a point of conversation. A conversation that’s already started: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-weapons-6/first

Erm… but his video is not inciting panic… And he urges people not to act like they are industry insider’s/developers…

Rauderi.8706:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

If his opinion’s that important, he can post it himself.

The policy shift on legendaries signifies another disturbing shift in GW2’s development. But we knew that already. The “oh noes a streemur said” thing is just an unnecessary echo chamber. He’s not an industry insider or a developer, he’s a player. Like everyone else. It’s irresponsible to incite a panic just because he had a big huff in public.

I’d say the good thing about his video is that it highlights a point of conversation. A conversation that’s already started: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-weapons-6/first

I disagree with this sentiment. It takes media traction to effect change. We’ve seen it before: Character slots in HoT weren’t addressed until media coverage happened. Same with commander tags. Having a platform actually does matter.

All in all I agree a lot with WP mentions in his video. Mike did put his head on the chopping block with his announcement, but it is indeed much better than some other companies that silently terminate planned updates. ArenaNet is still much smaller than most MMO companies. Some members are moving on, reshuffling, etc…that’s how the industry works. I know very little about programing and coding, but I do know how working on a team is. Sometimes, you find someone who has the exact skill set needed to help with Project A, but you have them on the side working on Project M. Every decision made when working on multiple projects is a double edged sword…no matter what decision is made, you will have both a positive and negative outcome.

I think the primary thing here is, if we (the community) rip into Mike and the devs too much, it will send the wrong message. I for one want them to communicate things like this to us with actual standings on what is happening instead of sugar coated comments that do nothing. However, if the negativity reaches a high enough point, it may result in less communication down the line.

With that, to Mike and all of the dev team…what we in Guild Wars 2 so far is incredible…thank you for all of your hard work.