(edited by Evalia.7103)
World Boss difficulty - possible solution!
No. Tequatl and the Great Wurm were meant to be hard. If you want to do it, you need to coordinate with your guilds, friends, and others on your server. Having it “Easy Mode” defeats the whole purpose of Elite Content.
I understand that you want to kill it, as do a lot of others. You just need to work hard for it. I’ll leave you with the following:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
I think a cool idea. The only problem I see is that people who want to do it for the challenge and the rewards that come from the challenge would have to wait enormous amounts of time. The timers on these bosses already make it exhausting to do multiple attempts on them for practice or for a legit kill attempt. The biggest reason I wouldn’t like this is because its just Anet catering to casuals again which happens too much in this game. I say keep making notoriously difficult dynamic events(perhaps they arn’t just boss events, perhaps they force players to spread out like LA but imagine an event that required you to save 2k citizens whcih seems practically impossible).
No. Tequatl and the Great Wurm were meant to be hard. If you want to do it, you need to coordinate with your guilds, friends, and others on your server. Having it “Easy Mode” defeats the whole purpose of Elite Content.
I understand that you want to kill it, as do a lot of others. You just need to work hard for it. I’ll leave you with the following:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
Clearly you are a player from a low population server with a guild that has 20 active players a day and you understand everything.
No. Tequatl and the Great Wurm were meant to be hard. If you want to do it, you need to coordinate with your guilds, friends, and others on your server. Having it “Easy Mode” defeats the whole purpose of Elite Content.
I understand that you want to kill it, as do a lot of others. You just need to work hard for it. I’ll leave you with the following:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
Before citating and writing, I advise you to learn how to read first.
I think a cool idea. The only problem I see is that people who want to do it for the challenge and the rewards that come from the challenge would have to wait enormous amounts of time. The timers on these bosses already make it exhausting to do multiple attempts on them for practice or for a legit kill attempt. The biggest reason I wouldn’t like this is because its just Anet catering to casuals again which happens too much in this game. I say keep making notoriously difficult dynamic events(perhaps they arn’t just boss events, perhaps they force players to spread out like LA but imagine an event that required you to save 2k citizens whcih seems practically impossible).
Just as a heads up, tequatl timer could be separated from “degradation” timer.
Tequatl could appear once every 2 hours as it does now, but degradation, for example, would only occur if respective server didn’t kill it today(for example, it can be 12 hours or whatever else)
And you’ve nailed the point about 2k citizens. Too hardcore for everyone, let’s make it 1500 and then 1200. Instead of this, loser servers get to try “750” and top-tier servers get to try “2000”. Rewards would be different(elitists will get their elite content, but even with that, everyone will be able to hit the goal.)
Elite content easily comes from the fact that defeating mega-difficulty Wurm would give everyone a decent change at ascended gear(let’s just say, an ascended box to 20 out of 100 or something), while defeating wurm at 0-difficulty won’t provide a chance at all.
(edited by Evalia.7103)
Before citating and writing, I advise you to learn how to read first.
And before asking for “Easy Mode”, you should first understand why Anet put in Elite content for the hardcore groups. Please read the following:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
People don’t play games to be “elite” they play they to have fun. The only ones who play them to be elite are those who do it for a living, or those who have no lives.
So I recommend not using words such as “losers” when refering to servers/people.
There’s actually alot of backlash against these events because of the way guilds are set up and the fact that they require players to represent another “dedicated” guild to have any hope of coordination and defeating them. This generally results in getting kicked from their own “elite” guild.. the irony is amusing.
Stuff like this seems like a good idea but can ultimately only end up as either toxic drama or abandoned content. Both are very common in MMOs.
Don’t automatically assume that the developer knows what they are doing. In-house testing is completely different from real world testing, that is why patches are always so buggy when released and need serious adjustments. Its called calibration. Most failure points like how many citizens can realistically be rescued are not known until the game has been played by the general population for a few days.
It’s not nerfing to make it easier for the casuals. Its correcting a mistake.
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
(edited by Hannelore.8153)
Before citating and writing, I advise you to learn how to read first.
And before asking for “Easy Mode”, you should first understand why Anet put in Elite content for the hardcore groups. Please read the following:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
I’ll repeat it again, but perhaps you should understand that reading is more important than writing(not to mention copypasting), and not the other way around.
I’m proposing the idea to have more elite content, while letting “weaker groups/servers” find the game more enjoyable than it currently is.
People don’t play games to be “elite” they play they to have fun. The only ones who play them to be elite are those who do it for a living, or those who have no lives.
So I recommend not using words such as “losers” when refering to servers/people.
There’s actually alot of backlash against these events because of the way guilds are set up and the fact that they require players to represent another “dedicated” guild to have any hope of coordination and defeating them. This generally results in getting kicked from their own “elite” guild.. the irony is amusing.
Stuff like this seems like a good idea but can ultimately only end up as either toxic drama or abandoned content. Both are very common in MMOs.
Don’t automatically assume that the developer knows what they are doing. In-house testing is completely different from real world testing, that is why patches are always so buggy when released and need serious adjustments. Its called calibration. Most failure points like how many citizens can realistically be rescued are not known until the game has been played by the general population for a few days.
It’s not nerfing to make it easier for the casuals. Its correcting a mistake.
My mistake for referring to them as “losers”, I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But I’m trying exactly to make them feel as winners. Or do you think they are feeling just fine after being digested by a wurm, or going for 1200 citizens and just falling a little bit short of it?
Elitist groups and dedicated PVE servers hit over 2000 citizens, though rarely. A lot of servers hit 1500, but even so 1200 was still a far-fetched goal for weaker players.
And it is calibration indeed. But what I’m trying to introduce is calibration as well, don’t you think? I’m pretty sure ArenaNet wanted everyone to feel it being a hard challenge for everyone. But right now, no matter what content we get, it’s either too easy, either too hard – depending on which server you are..And it won’t ever change unless you calibrate it for every server, or unless all servers are somewhat equal in population and dedicated groups, which we know they are not. Right now, somebody will always feel “wrong” about the events. Maybe they’ve tried many times and haven’t done it even once. Maybe it’s the other way around, and it’s disgustingly easy for them.
(edited by Evalia.7103)
I’m proposing the idea to have more elite content
If your proposal is:
That way, everyone should be capable to take down Tequatl, on any server.
Then you are not proposing, “more elite content.” By definition if everyone can do it without a requirement that everyone’s effort and ability be raised to the current standards required, it is not elite.
All content should be doable by everyone, that’s like one of the pillars of gw2. Thus, both of wurm and tequatl encounters should be severely nerfed or at least changed how scaling works to allow smaller groups to even have a chance to beat them.
All content should be doable by everyone, that’s like one of the pillars of gw2. Thus, both of wurm and tequatl encounters should be severely nerfed or at least changed how scaling works to allow smaller groups to even have a chance to beat them.
Precisely. Not sure why 10 people still need to carry the same 20 barrels as 30-40 people do. There is Dynamic event scaling, but it isn’t really working properly in most cases…
I’m proposing the idea to have more elite content
If your proposal is:
That way, everyone should be capable to take down Tequatl, on any servers.
Then you are not proposing, “more elite content.” By definition if everyone can do it without a requirement that everyone’s effort and ability be raised to the current standards required, it is not elite.
Would taking down a weaker version of a Tequatl(you could even scale it down in size!) considered Elite by you? I would guess not. But many people would still enjoy doing that.
If a great jungle wurm only had 1 head? Probably not. But it would still be enjoyable to actually beat it, now wouldn’t it(well, you still get something for beating a single head, but it doesn’t feel like you’ve completed the mission). Or perhaps you’d need only 5 barrels of gunpowder for him to eat it up instead of 20, if less people are around?)
And if Tequatl summoned more dragons(but of course, smaller ones) to help him out?
If Great Jungle Wurm would have had 5 heads and not 3(or just that you would need more barrels, more colours, etc.)? That would probably be considered awesome and elite content.
Would taking down a weaker version of a Tequatl(you could even scale it down in size!) considered Elite by you? I would guess not. But many people would still enjoy doing that.
If a great jungle wurm only had 1 head? Probably not. But it would still be enjoyable to actually beat it, now wouldn’t it(well, you still get something for beating a single head, but it doesn’t feel like you’ve completed the mission). Or perhaps you’d need only 5 barrels of gunpowder for him to eat it up instead of 20, if less people are around?)
And if Tequatl summoned more dragons(but of course, smaller ones) to help him out?
If Great Jungle Wurm would have had 5 heads and not 3(or just that you would need more barrels, more colours, etc.)? That would probably be considered awesome and elite content.
I made no comment about what, “many people,” would enjoy.
I commented to the fact that lowering standards so that everyone succeeds is the antithesis of elite.
All content should be doable by everyone, that’s like one of the pillars of gw2.
Can you provide anything to support this ?
I cannot recall seeing anything from the Anet indicating that everyone should be able to complete every piece of content regardless of player ability or effort.
I know people who would be hard pressed to beat AC story mode. Heck they have demonstrated difficulty in overcoming single, non veteran/champion, foes of their actual level.
In order for all content to be doable by everyone the content would have to be nerfed to the point that looking at foes would drop them while their attacks could not hurt the character at all.
I’ll repeat it again, but perhaps you should understand that reading is more important than writing(not to mention copypasting), and not the other way around.
I’m proposing the idea to have more elite content, while letting “weaker groups/servers” find the game more enjoyable than it currently is.
Letting “weaker” groups do it is the opposite of what Elite content is. So you should consider the following quote. I’ll repeat it again so you have a chance to actually read it. It contains the reason why this content was made:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
All content should be doable by everyone
Exactly. All content is doable by everyone. But in order to be successful, you need to put in effort. So if you want to do an easy boss like the Shadow Behemoth, that’s available to you. If you want to do really hard Raid type bosses, the Great Wurm is there. But don’t expect to just walk in and beat him. Gather 150 of your friends or server-mates, learn the mechanics, and organize a win.
Letting “weaker” groups do it is the opposite of what Elite content is. So you should consider the following quote. I’ll repeat it again so you have a chance to actually read it. It contains the reason why this content was made:
Hey, thanks everyone! We spent a lot of time tweaking the balance on this, and I’m glad that so many people appreciate our efforts. We REALLY like hearing that people are making memories and cheering each other on. Those are the kinds of experiences we make MMOs for.
I’m not surprised that the Wurm is not liked by as many people. We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics. It’s really cool watching the community grapple with this puzzle and innovate as they get closer and closer to finding a winning strategy.
What is this ********… Are you seriously writing the same thing 3rd time? Instead of reading?
Then let me write the same thing again. Maybe you’ll read it, but I’m probably just tricking myself into hoping that you will.
I’m asking for more hardcore content if players(of server X) succeed in doing what we have now, easier content if they fail.
*Basically, fractals. Except those are limited at level 50, but before the patch sky was the limit and you could even make a ladder ranking based on that. Imagine that our beginning level is ~20. You can climb all the way to 100 or something(by beating boss to a pulp repeatedly and proving that it is too weak to match you), or fall down to 1(even failing before, now you get a chance to beat it).
Right now, on a scale of 1 to 100, you could say that “hardcore” events are stuck at level 60 or 70. Wurm would probably be 75 or 80. Elite players would eagerly be fighting the Wurm at levels above 85, hoping to prove they are good to hit 100(or whatever limit would be set). Casual players, on the other hand, could enjoy doing the event at easier difficulties.
i like the idea.
Can you provide anything to support this ?
I cannot recall seeing anything from the Anet indicating that everyone should be able to complete every piece of content regardless of player ability or effort.
I know people who would be hard pressed to beat AC story mode. Heck they have demonstrated difficulty in overcoming single, non veteran/champion, foes of their actual level.
In order for all content to be doable by everyone the content would have to be nerfed to the point that looking at foes would drop them while their attacks could not hurt the character at all.
Isn’t that (“all content…”) a typical rhetoric people here usually use when someone suggests to make world bosses instanced or to make instances like dungeons/fractals more difficult?
Exactly. All content is doable by everyone. But in order to be successful, you need to put in effort. So if you want to do an easy boss like the Shadow Behemoth, that’s available to you. If you want to do really hard Raid type bosses, the Great Wurm is there. But don’t expect to just walk in and beat him. Gather 150 of your friends or server-mates, learn the mechanics, and organize a win.
Why does tequatl require 80+ people? Can’t it scale down to 20-40? What’s the difference if 20 or 5 people defend an objective? It’s a clusterkitten anyway.
Stopped doing TeQ & Wurm with their respected guilds Txs/WURM simply because of the overflow issues..
-The events are great to do, the problem is doing the events
-Doing the organization of the event is a mess and as expected rewards are too RNG.
-Waiting time. to be able to play with friends you have to be in a certain overflow or server early. very early.. (then you have the map population being fragmented and not everyone participating..) the usual DC then ruins the experience for morst players that wish to play with their friends.
I would really love to see these events being started as an instance like the battle for LA is but as an Guildmission. So you can make sure you have te friends and guildies who you are counting on to be with you.
-The population counter is a great idea btw.
E.A.D.
OP, as member of a dedicated guild that has successfully done Teq 100’s of times and the new Wurm 26 times, I think your idea is terrible.
I am with the Penguin on this one. All this would do is promote more pugs, leechers, and akf’ers to pile onto these events. This is the last thing any organised guild or server doing these events want to see and have to deal with.
Please explain how a Teq event, in your version, would work if there is a ‘hardcore’ guild of 40-50 players (more than enough to to do Teq) with 100’s of kills is at the same event with a bunch of pugs from a server that has never successfully done the event before?
Does the event scale up to the hardcore level or does it scale down to the newbie version?? Somewhere in the middle?? This makes no sense.
As for Wurm, I can guarantee you, this event will never be completed successfully in your version. Out of a 120+ group of players, 10 pugs not on teamspeak, not knowing what to do, when, will fail this event every time. The margin between success and fail is that tight. Again, does the event scale down to the newbie level or scale up for the guild with 26 Wurm kills??
hardcore groups and elitists will be able to still have a challenge killing those enemies try after try. But servers without a chance will have a chance once each 10 days. I like this idea. +support.
Aens / Ellantriel / Nao To Mori / Saelyth. Commander
Guias de Raids en español / Spanish raiding guides
OP, as member of a dedicated guild that has successfully done Teq 100’s of times and the new Wurm 26 times, I think your idea is terrible.
So basically you’re saying “As someone who directly benefits in both loot and personal prestige from the present situation, I do not feel it should change!”. Not exactly surprising or relevant, bro.
I am with the Penguin on this one. All this would do is promote more pugs, leechers, and akf’ers to pile onto these events. This is the last thing any organised guild or server doing these events want to see and have to deal with.
You don’t seem to able to explain why PuGs are inherently bad, as they have to be for that to be a negative. Is it your view that being in a PuG is in some way sinful or evil? There is no way to explain why you think “PuG” is a negative term otherwise.
Equally, can you explain how this would bring “Leechers” and “AFKers”? It seems like this system would totally mess up leechers and AFKers.
Finally, you say “No organised server or guild would want to do deal with this”. Sure, but it would never apply to an organised server or guild, would it? If you think it would, you need to explain how. Presumably you kill Teq/Wurm very regularly, right? So regularly that this timer-based solution would never kick in for you (as we can say it would need at least a day or two of 0 kills to even start the counter). So that’s a completely irrelevant argument, and that you’re bringing it up is very strange indeed.
I would absolutely never under any condition support this suggestion unless it severely affected the rewards offered at the end.
Sorry but I have no interest in catering to other servers’ ineptitude or inability to pull a sufficient number of players. Instead of your suggestion, I think it’d be more appropriate to solve the problem with all of the guesting. That’s the main reason why low population servers are suffering.
I’m on Desolation and it’s absolutely essential that I get taxi’d into sparkfly main at least a half hour in advance for reset kill, else I’m screwed.
I think that if a person native to the server wants to get in, they should. It should either boot out someone guesting at random and put THEM into the overflow (a person that’s guesting would always hope they get lucky and don’t get traded off and sent to overflow, though this sounds very anger-inducing and cruel), or the person guesting shouldn’t be able to get the full reward. Possibly only enable them to get the grand chest on the floor without the four bonus ones? Possibly only enable them to get the four chests with no grand chest on the floor? Possibly allow them to get all of the loot except the exotic dragon chest?
Those are some of my ideas off the top of my head.
So basically you’re saying “As someone who directly benefits in both loot and personal prestige from the present situation, I do not feel it should change!”. Not exactly surprising or relevant, bro.
Whatever loot and/or prestige benefits I receive (and believe me, these are very meager) are because I, along with every other member of this guild, put in the time and effort to learn and practice this event.
You obviously have no idea the effort required in organising and coordinating 140+ players for this event, let alone what it takes to succeed.
Seems to me you are more jealous/envious towards players who can succeedat this event the way it is currently implemented than trying to improve anything.
You don’t seem to able to explain why PuGs are inherently bad, as they have to be for that to be a negative.
Each player at the Wurm event not on teamspeak, not following instructions, not assigned to a task, not buffed, in the wrong kit/spec, reduces the chance of success by 10%. 10 of these players and the event fails. I know this from experience after many, many failed events
Equally, can you explain how this would bring “Leechers” and “AFKers”?
Our guild has stalkers. There are at least 3-4 players we are aware of who track and monitor which server and when we do wurm. They do this to leech off our kills, sometimes trolling our commanders in whisper or map chat during or after the event.
On occasion we get a pug or 2 from the particular server where we are doing the event. We don’t mind if they want to watch or help kill the mob spawns, as long as they keep to doing this.
Finally, you say “No organised server or guild would want to do deal with this”. Sure, but it would never apply to an organised server or guild, would it? If you think it would, you need to explain how.
I explained this above
Presumably you kill Teq/Wurm very regularly, right? So regularly that this timer-based solution would never kick in for you (as we can say it would need at least a day or two of 0 kills to even start the counter). So that’s a completely irrelevant argument, and that you’re bringing it up is very strange indeed.
I answered your questions, now you answer mine.
Teq spawns, and there are 100 players at the event.
50 of those players have 100’s of Teq kills, and 50 players have 0 teq kills.
Explain how this event, in your version, would scale-up for the hardcores and scale down for the newbies?
What is this ********… Are you seriously writing the same thing 3rd time? Instead of reading?
Then let me write the same thing again. Maybe you’ll read it, but I’m probably just tricking myself into hoping that you will.
I’m asking for more hardcore content if players(of server X) succeed in doing what we have now, easier content if they fail.
*Basically, fractals. Except those are limited at level 50, but before the patch sky was the limit and you could even make a ladder ranking based on that. Imagine that our beginning level is ~20. You can climb all the way to 100 or something(by beating boss to a pulp repeatedly and proving that it is too weak to match you), or fall down to 1(even failing before, now you get a chance to beat it).
Right now, on a scale of 1 to 100, you could say that “hardcore” events are stuck at level 60 or 70. Wurm would probably be 75 or 80. Elite players would eagerly be fighting the Wurm at levels above 85, hoping to prove they are good to hit 100(or whatever limit would be set). Casual players, on the other hand, could enjoy doing the event at easier difficulties.
Nope. Casuals can join in on Teq or Wurm runs all they want. But scaling down because you’re unwilling to organize is the wrong direction for Elite content. I have a feeling that you’re not reading what Anet’s intent was for this content. It was only meant for the hardcores. All players are welcome to try it, but the difficulty is so high, that you need mass coordination to achieve success.
Here, please take a deep breath, and read the following carefully. I’ll even edit the quote down so you can focus on the main point:
We were making that specifically for the hard core groups that are all about the organization and figuring out the strategy and tactics.
Your idea would completely destroy one of the few Elite content events in this game. Hardcore players have only 1% of the game that’s hairpulling hard. In fact, it’s even less than that, since Tequatl has gotten so easy, we need to pull back our DPS, or we end up bugging him out. So what we have left is the Great Wurm, and killing the three Knights in under 6 minutes. And you can’t compare Fractals, because you don’t need 150 people to kill the Jade Maw (though that’s a good idea).
So if you’d like to try our content, you are more than welcome to join. Blackgate, Deso, TxS, TTS, etc. Pick a group, guest over, and join in. The Hardcore community works together to take on content like this. TTS was the first to get to the 2nd phase Wurm, talked strategy with others, Deso comes up with new tactics, and is World’s First kill. That only happened because Anet made this content. Making it “Easy Mode” only harms us.
Please explain how a Teq event, in your version, would work if there is a ‘hardcore’ guild of 40-50 players (more than enough to to do Teq) with 100’s of kills is at the same event with a bunch of pugs from a server that has never successfully done the event before?
Does the event scale up to the hardcore level or does it scale down to the newbie version?? Somewhere in the middle?? This makes no sense.
These are good questions. Here’s some clarification.
These events take place in the persistent world. While dedicated groups can manipulate overflows to control to some degree who shows up, they don’t have perfect control of who participates.
- What factor determines whether the event modifies for easy or hard?
- Is it on a personal level?
- If so, is it character or account based?
- Is the programming expected to auto-detect everyone at an event and determine if the majority killed Teq/Wurm during the prior day?
- Would this need an upgrade on the auto-detect that scales events now, which is not exactly perfect?
- Is the threshold supposed to be a bare “majority;” a 2/3rds majority? 3/4’s?
- Is the proposed event difficulty adjustment tied to a particular server?
- If the majority of kills take place in an overflow, does the group need to find the “same” overflow the next day?
- If so, how do they do that since there are no tools to identify which overflow you’re in?
- Most importantly, how would/could this suggested feature be abused, and would minimizing those abuses weigh the system down to the point that no one would have any fun?