World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

P1/2
World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

Disclaimer: I will be using other MMO’s as examples.

I recently made 3 threads about things that in my opinion are some of the core problems in GW2. Problems meaning the reason behind the things many people are complaining about.

There was one subject I did slightly touch in one of the threads but I never really went deep into it because I found it hard to describe the feeling. However I now think that atmosphere is the best word.

Maps in GW2 are beautiful but what I miss is a bound to the world. You know when you played a game and you have this sort of homesickness towards area’s in that game. Places you just like to visit again.

I think that feeling is related / created by a number of things and together they create the ’ atmosphere’ of the world.
1 Diversity in the maps including the transition from one to another.
2 Good colors.
3 Learning to know the area and the people (NPC’s) and the history of them, becoming friends with them.
4 The art of the world.
5 The atmosphere of the map.
6 Background sounds.

Let me go by the threads one by one and also see if GW2 has that or not.

1 GW2 has a great diversity in maps. No doubt about it. You have beautiful maps, ugly maps (thats not a negative, MMO’s should have ugly maps) icy maps and so on. It’s however the transition where it lacks.

First of all, all the different type of maps are in one area. You have the jungle area, the ice area, the char area (don’t know how to name that) and so on. Of course it make sense you have more of one environment in one area and more of another in another area but for the transition it needs to be mixed. You need to go from a ugly area in a new area to a icy area and so on.

Also the maps are instances. So you don’t walk from one area into another, no you are in one area, get a load-screen and are suddenly in another area. That takes away from the whole transition and the feeling it gives you when playing a game where that is.

Because what we are talking about here is a feeling.

2 Colors. GW2 has that totally going for it. It mainly uses good bight enough colors but also has area’s with some less bright colors (part of that diversity). There are many games and mmo’s that have the whole world very gray and that just does not work.

3 Learning to know the area and the people. That is pretty much non-existing in GW2. Some events can help with this is a veyr basic manner but overall you don’t learn to know the people (NPC’s), you don’t learn there story. They don’t learn to know your. You don’t get a nice reward from them for helping them. You don’t go into a cave to find something for a friend (npc), you go in a cave because on the map you see there is a hearth, an event of a poi. The more traditional quest seem to be better at providing that.

4 GW2 has that totally going for it. Its a buatifull world with great looking maps. An obvious artstyle they are going for.

5 The atmosphere in a map. Misses in GW2, and it is hard to say why. I know forest do help create such a feeling just as very open maps and canyons. GW2 does not have the forest or the open world and canyons only partly. No real forest even in the ‘forest’ area you are walking in between many trees but you are not walking in a forest, that is a big difference. There are also not really open maps where you can look very far and see not much then grass of sand. Kessex Hills does have that a little bid but still limited. Also effects like smog or weather help create such an atmosphere.

I remember being in one map in GW2 when it was night and it was raining, there was lighting. The map had many torches (was one of the maps filled with centaurs) and at that moment there was a great atmosphere in that map. But during the day (or no storm) it’s just a beautiful map with no atmosphere.

As en example I would like to have a look as some images from EQN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RNx4bb5-Y&start=6m2se&end=7m55se
If you watch from 6:02 to 7:55 you can see many of these examples. How they play with the light, smog, the forest and the day and night cycle (playing with light in a way, but also colors because of a red sun)

6 Background sounds.
Not sure about this one. GW2 does have the sound. You do need to turn music sound way down and the environment sound way up to get it to work. However it could use a little extra work I think. When I am in a cold windy place I want to hear that wind and in a forest I want to hear the monkeys (as far as they exist) and during the night I want to hear the wolfs. In the video I linked you also have that. Some area’s might be silent. There is that diversity again.

As a final example of the combination of most the things I mentioned here I will take an example of a little journey in WoW. Yeah I know, these days you are supposed to hate WoW or something but fact is that the game has it’s popularity not for nothing.

(edited by Devata.6589)

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

p2/2
I would really suggest following this journey and checking the images, especially if you are skeptic. Because I describe a feeling here and thats kitten hard in words.

Lets take a journey from Durator to Winterspring. I will use images for the people who don’t know those maps. So we start in the dry Durator (south). A area with many emptiness but also a little farm here of there.
http://snowwhite86.sn.funpic.de/facesofdeath/assets/images/Durotar2.jpg we continue or journey to the north entering a little settlement http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGSRT8hfUDI/AAAAAAAABxA/BDcM1P4-SDc/s1600/Durotar+Razor+Hill+(3).jpg there we can help some of the npc’s. We learn to know the people there and so get a bound. It also has it’s crafting area where you can come back to and other stuff to do.

Then we continue north going into a canyon http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGSPfLfbQgI/AAAAAAAABwY/Bk9Xa_GxC3c/s1600/Durotar+Razorwind+Canyon.jpg
At the other side we are suddenly standing in frond of this huge wall that seems to hold a city http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/durotar/durotar_landscape26.jpg

We can walk inside but we go left, going from this dry land to a more savanna area, seeing this transition from one to the other taking place. http://tanklikeagirl.com/gallery2/d/24-1/barrens.jpg

We then turn right going into Ashenvale Forest. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGW7f9-6RyI/AAAAAAAABzg/1tnWhuIcF8k/s1600/The+Barrens+The+Mor'shan+Rampart.jpg

Getting into this forest with a lot of purple and giving you a sort of elf forest feeling. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2579195149_085a8fc9a6.jpg
http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060923112513/wowwiki/images/1/1c/Ashenvale.jpg
It’s a little smoggy because of the humidity in the air you get in a forest. Lighting is also different because you are in a forest.

Many NPC’s to learn here. On our way north we might be able to learn many of them but also might find a settlement of an opposing faction.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fJVV1ljPTS0/S9CI9cipuSI/AAAAAAAAABc/xP8oyAc6MSA/s1600/WoWScrnShot_042210_102633.jpg

We go north and suddenly the whole environment changes. Still a fores but ugly dark green and brown colors and a toxic atmosphere with water that almost looks radio active. Even the tree’s seem to be coming strait out of a horror movie.
http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/felwood/felwood_screenshots15.jpg
http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/felwood/felwood_screenshots31.jpg

Where you had nice looking wolves and bears before http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905192150/wowwiki/images/f/f2/Ghostpaw_Runner.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090128150431/wowwiki/images/2/20/Ashenvale_Bear.jpg

now there are ugly black wolves and bears with hair standing up.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905193928/wowwiki/images/4/47/Felpaw_Wolf.jpg http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2010/02/580wowscrnshot022110153618.jpg

Everything seems to be corrupted by the forest.

While you hate the look of them, as a ranger you see all these different beast you might tame but you are in for a real treat. A tiger also corrupted by the forest http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090120115223/wowwiki/images/7/71/Corrupted_Saber.jpg

Now while I said the forest changed we really went into another map. We are now in Felwood. We want to get our of this place and keep heading north.
We end up at a cave http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8890/exploit29ol.jpg it’s guarded but after helping the bearlike ‘people’ guarding it we are allowed in.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCGK7NMNgI/AAAAAAAABjA/qN3jQn5XAkw/s640/Timbermaw+Hold+Bridge+(2).jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCGO1ii7mI/AAAAAAAABjI/T9CvAZ7TWSw/s1600/Timbermaw+Hold+Bridge.jpg

When we emerge you notice it’s cold. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCE21-Zb6I/AAAAAAAABig/fbAp6_69HqE/s1600/Winterspring+Timbermaw+Hold.jpg

We walk on and we are suddenly in this beautifully icy landscape http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050822073323/wowwiki/images/8/87/Winterspring.jpg http://repgrind.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/wowscrnshot_061511_185656.jpg
We entered Winterspring.

Most of the animals are white and there are some nice pets and mounts to find. Riding along to the east we end up in another little settlement. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGIXlQc06mI/AAAAAAAABnI/0FwssgaE6D0/s1600/Winterspring+Everlook.jpg
There some other race is working on inventions and doing a lot of stuff you can help them with. You as an engineer as craft can also learn something from them.

The end.

Now you see how the colors, transitions, light and all that stuff together can really create an atmosphere in the world.

Not to mention that the possibility to skip half the map using waypoints will also not help you in a big way.

(edited by Devata.6589)

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Interesting concepts. But, it would really make your posts easier to read, for me at least, if you could change thinks to things. It is confusing sometimes. =)

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Interesting concepts. But, it would really make your posts easier to read, for me at least, if you could change thinks to things. It is confusing sometimes. =)

Done.

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: saalle.4623

saalle.4623

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Thank you. I’m sure your posts will be much easier to read and understand. =)

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

Have you been to Orr?

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

Yeah some more is also good. It fits into my list. Diversity and giving a map atmosphere with effects like smoke or lightning.

In Darkshire there you see it’s always dark, there is smoke everywhere. A lot of playing with the light from the houses and torches.

However imagine if they would make a whole area the size of the 5 main area’s (ice, forest (without being a forest), human (little bit of a mix but mainly green) , sandy, Orr) we have now like that. One big continent basically being ghostly, dark and foggy. You would get tired of it just as soon. Now if it would be a mix and you would walk into such an area and later going into another area and so on, then it would be much more interesting.

So mixing it is also important. There has been a lot of talk about new maps that might be released. Crystal desert (all sand), Far Shiverpeaks (all icy). I don’t know about Woodland Cascades but that sounds like you can do multiple things there and the forest maps also seem interesting because you can do much with it. However I am not waiting for a whole new icy area, and I am not waiting for a whole new dry land area.

I would love to see a mix of all those thinks. Sadly giving a few new maps in every of these parts would also not work because they are all far away. Do you don’t travel from one map into the other map (as far as you that can do in GW2 because of it’s instanced maps). Then again, all those area’s have not been visited for many years so who would say Far Shiverpeaks is really still all icy? Maybe part of it has become a nice mix of icy, desert, savana, forest and so on. And then just taking one of those aspects like a forest you can have a bright forest, a dark ugly forest a very open forest or a ghostly forest like you suggest.

Such a nice mix that would give the atmosphere I think is missing at this point.

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

Have you been to Orr?

Here a few images of the map he is talking about.
http://www.eobet.com/blogs/wowscenery/uploaded_images/darkshire-795339.jpg
/\ see how weather really does something for the atmosphere
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTNFvgr10I/AAAAAAAAA7c/mJ1GYeEEydQ/s1600/Duskwood+Forlorn+Rowe.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTLXerWbWI/AAAAAAAAA7E/_hSCY43POi4/s1600/Duskwood+Tranquil+Gardens+Cemetery.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTHmOCmbDI/AAAAAAAAA6k/tUCg45mBRMo/s1600/Duskwood+Abercrombie%27s+Shack.jpg

Also notice how they play with the light and the color to create that atmosphere.

That is all something completely different then Orr.

Well Orr are 3 maps (for now) all sort of the same. Yes they do change the color a bid but thats about it. It are 3 beautifully designed ugly maps. But they still lag atmosphere imho and don’t really add anything to the world atmosphere in total.

They might have done if you would enter such a map just after being in a beautiful map as Kessex Hills and if you would enter a map like Snowden Drifts when having passed true that map.

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Morrigan.2809

Morrigan.2809

I have a lot of screenshots and I have many favorite spots here are just some
some of them are very old some of them are newer.
If GW2 does anything right imo it is atmosphere.

Gunnar’s Hold

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

I have a lot of screenshots and I have many favorite spots here are just some
some of them are very old some of them are newer.
If GW2 does anything right imo it is atmosphere.

There are some very atmospheric spots and moments. I won’t deny that. But i think think the overall atmosphere in a map in the world is lacking. Funny enough multiple of the pictures you have there are using effects I talked about. Night, smog, lightning. For example the first and the thirth picture and those are indeed extremely atmospheric.

I also like picture 7 and 8 for it’s atmosphere. One of them is also at night (and I am not even the biggest fan of dark games, but I do look for atmosphere) and picture 7 playes nicely with the colors.

However I mainly see Tyria as picture 7. Thats a extreme beautiful spot and while there are multiple spots like that overall you can say the whole world is very beautiful but while beautiful I can’t that that spot has much atmosphere and thats what I feel in most maps and the whole world.

Traveling can also give you that atmospheric that I tried to show in my little ‘story’ but because off all the loading screens and the fact that all type (similar looking) of zones are put together thats also less the case in GW2.

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: nehezbegar.1065

nehezbegar.1065

In my opinion, the atmosphere is what GW2 does right. This game has one of the most beautiful crafted worlds in the game industry, considering their artstyle and how maps were built

Attachments:

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

In my opinion, the atmosphere is what GW2 does right. This game has one of the most beautiful crafted worlds in the game industry, considering their artstyle and how maps were built

“This game has one of the most beautiful crafted worlds in the game industry, considering their art-style and how maps were built” I agree on that part. I was purely taking about the atmosphere. You can have a beautiful map without atmosphere. And there are for sure places, spots where there is an atmosphere like obviously the spots you are also linking screen-shots from. But overall the whole maps and the world does not have that feeling.

Maybe I need more to create that feeling then some other people do?

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: nehezbegar.1065

nehezbegar.1065

It is the matter of taste. For instance, i don’t find WoW zones atmospheric at all, but as we talk about games i really like the feeling of The Witcher 2 zones (as we speak about games in general and not MMO only)

World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

It is the matter of taste. For instance, i don’t find WoW zones atmospheric at all, but as we talk about games i really like the feeling of The Witcher 2 zones (as we speak about games in general and not MMO only)

Personal taste is for sure an aspect but that does not mean that there are thinks that will help an atmosphere in general. A game like WoW is not so popular by pure luck. And while not the only element, atmosphere is for sure one of the thinks that helps making a game popular.