World bosses=rares,exotics...Arah=nothing?
mostly becaue arah gives 100% exotics of yur choices after few runs….like every explorable dungeon.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
mostly becaue arah gives 100% exotics of yur choices after few runs….like every explorable dungeon.
Thus the issue. Arah is by far the hardest explorable dungeon. Lupicus is a great boss (except for the whole “shooting outside the marked circle” kitten, but whatever), but also easily harder than any other boss in any other dungeon. But doing Arah P4 rewards you the same as CoF P1, or CoE P1…
It’s an issue with the current dungeon design…
Thus the issue. Arah is by far the hardest explorable dungeon. Lupicus is a great boss (except for the whole “shooting outside the marked circle” kitten, but whatever), but also easily harder than any other boss in any other dungeon. But doing Arah P4 rewards you the same as CoF P1, or CoE P1…
It’s an issue with the current dungeon design…
I have actually yet to see a single person in Arah gear that have not done Arah Explorable.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
I have actually yet to see a single person in Arah gear that have not done Arah Explorable.
Which would be extremely relevant if Arah gear was anything other than normal exotic gear. Which it isn’t.
mostly becaue arah gives 100% exotics of yur choices after few runs….like every explorable dungeon.
Thus the issue. Arah is by far the hardest explorable dungeon. Lupicus is a great boss (except for the whole “shooting outside the marked circle” kitten, but whatever), but also easily harder than any other boss in any other dungeon. But doing Arah P4 rewards you the same as CoF P1, or CoE P1…
It’s an issue with the current dungeon design…
Different skins and different stats. Furthermore certain legendaries require Arah. The most difficult title yet requires Arah. I think a skilled Arah player has more than enough reasons to do it, the guarantueed exotics being one of them.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
mostly becaue arah gives 100% exotics of yur choices after few runs….like every explorable dungeon.
Thus the issue. Arah is by far the hardest explorable dungeon. Lupicus is a great boss (except for the whole “shooting outside the marked circle” kitten, but whatever), but also easily harder than any other boss in any other dungeon. But doing Arah P4 rewards you the same as CoF P1, or CoE P1…
It’s an issue with the current dungeon design…
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you that the design is wrong, but there is a reason for this.
The reason they made all dungeon paths reward the same reward, is to prevent organized speedclear groups to farm the ‘harder’ content at 1/4th of the time of what the normal players do it for the highest reward. That’s what happened in DoA in GW1. I was one of those SC players. I made close to 200k/hour in that area (more like 180k/hour), because after each run, I also went around and picked up loot that was left behind to salvage into materials that sold for a good chuck of cash. We could clear it in 25-35minutes on casual runs, in HM, which meant double the rewards from NM. PUGs on the other hand cleared that area in 1h30 on average in NM. That’s 3 times as long, for half the reward. So we were basically making around 6 times more money/hour than PUGs did. I think that was a situation they wanted to avoid.
Now, in theory, that doesn’t sound completely unreasonable. However, what this resulted into is that PUGs will just farm the fastest and easiest dungeon over and over, because it’s the best money/hour scenario for them. Whereas the people that actually bother doing the harder content, are stuck with absolutely terrible rewards for their efforts and quit the game eventually.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Which would be extremely relevant if Arah gear was anything other than normal exotic gear. Which it isn’t.
But it is.
It have a unique skin. Just like the other dungeons.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
I think a skilled Arah player has more than enough reasons to do it, the guarantueed exotics being one of them.
Lol, you’re funny. I run Arah daily. I usually run p2 and 3 on at least one character, sometimes 2 or 3. And I can say to you with pretty solid confidence: rewards in Arah SUCK, except if you duo p4 in 25-30minutes and run PUGs for 8g/person.
It’s not worth the time spent. If I wanted to be rewarded, I’d go do CoE, but I’m getting really bored with CoE. The only reason I love Arah so much is because of lupi, nothing else.
So, as a dedicated Arah runner, I can say to you with plenty of confidence: Arah needs better rewards, because getting 1 rare if I’m lucky, some putrid/vile essence and some tokens really isn’t worth it.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you that the design is wrong, but there is a reason for this.
The reason they made all dungeon paths reward the same reward, is to prevent organized speedclear groups to farm the ‘harder’ content at 1/4th of the time of what the normal players do it for the highest reward. That’s what happened in DoA in GW1. I was one of those SC players. I made close to 200k/hour in that area (more like 180k/hour), because after each run, I also went around and picked up loot that was left behind to salvage into materials that sold for a good chuck of cash. We could clear it in 25-35minutes on casual runs, in HM, which meant double the rewards from NM. PUGs on the other hand cleared that area in 1h30 on average in NM. That’s 3 times as long, for half the reward. So we were basically making around 6 times more money/hour than PUGs did. I think that was a situation they wanted to avoid.
Now, in theory, that doesn’t sound completely unreasonable. However, what this resulted into is that PUGs will just farm the fastest and easiest dungeon over and over, because it’s the best money/hour scenario for them. Whereas the people that actually bother doing the harder content, are stuck with absolutely terrible rewards for their efforts and quit the game eventually.
Actually, I’m pretty sure this is more of an issue of “rushed out the door design” than anything. Cause right now you still have the issue of organized teams making a lot more than pugs in certain dungeons (like CoF1), while other dungeons are just plain not worth doing reward wise (e.g.: Arah).
Either ways, I have a way around that, and am planning on dropping a suggestion about it soon.
But it is.
It have a unique skin. Just like the other dungeons.
… Let that one sink in for a while…
Lol at lupi being the most difficult boss in a dungeon.
… Let that one sink in for a while…
So.. how many unique sets can you get from doing World Bosses?
People care about cosmetics in this game, therefore people that want the cosmetic look from Arah will do Arah to get that cosmetic set.
Simple as that.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
I do a lot of arah runs with my guild mates because our Lead wants the tokens, and I like it because it gives me free opportunities to train for GL (most interesting boss in all dungeons, bar some fractals) solo. Also it enables my guild to test new players and see how good they are, but as for rewards … wow.. there are rewards in this game??
The only thing that I find rewarding in this dungeon is that at some point you can become skilled enough to solo it. Then you make a video out of it, post it on youtube and forums, become a bit famous and attract talented players for your guild. This makes your guild shine out of the ocean of terribad pugs… but what do you do with such guild? wait for expansion and actual content, not rewards, just content, hoping that at some point in this game you will be tangibly rewarded for skill rather than mindless farm.
Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter
Retired elementalist theorycrafter
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
… Let that one sink in for a while…
So.. how many unique sets can you get from doing World Bosses?
People care about cosmetics in this game, therefore people that want the cosmetic look from Arah will do Arah to get that cosmetic set.
Simple as that.
Yes and once they have that skin they’re never gonna go into the dungeon again. Instead they will be doing 6-10min runs in CoF 1 simply because it yields the same reward in terms of rarity, namely guaranteed rares and excotics to either salvage or flush down the toilet. Or of course world events, which also guarantee at least 1 rare per event per character.
Arah is inifinitely more difficult right now than CoF 1 or any world boss, and yet basically yields the same rewards if you break it down to rarity. That’s wrong. Period.
Also what’s the problem with organized groups clearing a dungeon faster than PUGs? The organized group puts a lot more effort and time into it to become that good. PUGs are just… PUGs. Why should they be rewarded the same?
One dude made a suggestion that was very interesting but quickly buried in the suggraveyard forum.
He was promoting the idea that a significant part of the gold rewards from a dungeon should be tied to how often this dungeon is run by the players. This would decrease the incentive to farm CoF, and increase the incentive to do other dungeons. I thought it was very clever. Unfortunately I cannot give you the link to the suggestion thread because it is contrary to forum rules.
Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter
Retired elementalist theorycrafter
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
SPEED RUNS ARE A EXPLOIT
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
SPEED RUNS ARE A EXPLOIT
TIL being efficient and not sucking at the game = exploiting.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
SPEED RUNS ARE A EXPLOIT
Only if exploits are involved. Everything else is just skill, experience and perhaps bad dungeon design.
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
SPEED RUNS ARE A EXPLOIT
Only if exploits are involved. Everything else is just skill, experience and perhaps bad dungeon design.
No skill in running past a mob. Truly skilled players will challenge every enemy in their way and get all the loot.
No skill in running past a mob. Truly skilled players will challenge every enemy in their way and get all the loot.
Lol, Arah p1 and 2 would like to have a word with you.
Not to mention, what loot? Oh, those porous bones and those Cabalist hoods I can merch because they’re worthless? Go ahead, farm them all you want, they’re all yours.
In the meantime, I’ll stick to doing Arah in 15-20mins.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I did Arah path 4 in four hours. Does that make me a speed runner? lol
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
I love the infallible logic bad players like to use…
Yeah, being punished for being a good player, that sounds fair.
While we’re at it, people that run a marathon the fastest should be shunned and the fat kids that finish last should be hailed.
SPEED RUNS ARE A EXPLOIT
Only if exploits are involved. Everything else is just skill, experience and perhaps bad dungeon design.
No skill in running past a mob. Truly skilled players will challenge every enemy in their way and get all the loot.
Truly skilled players avoid mobs that takes too much time but reward nothing, so they go faster to where the reward is.
2 solutions:
1. Make all mobs in dungeons normal mobs, and some veterans maybe, just like the Molten Facility and Fractals, the only dungeons that it’s “worth” killing the trash mobs, at least on lower levels for Fractals, since at higher levels they have more hit points than champions, but loot is the same.
2. Increase the rewards of the silver mobs, so they reward <something> for the time you lose killing them
I much prefer option 1 to be honest and I think the whole praise of the Molten Facility and Fractals got, when they were first released, is a clear indication on how all dungeons should be like.
I did Arah path 4 in four hours. Does that make me a speed runner? lol
Did you skip mobs? Because if so, you’re an exploiter!
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I did Arah path 4 in four hours. Does that make me a speed runner? lol
Did you skip mobs? Because if so, you’re an exploiter!
I think I might have skipped a couple of mobs. I couldn’t tell because my eyes were glazed over. lol
Point still stands, no one has really answered it.
Why does all the easy stuff in this game get rewarded more then doing any harder content?
In most games ive played ( and thats alot in my 35 years )the harder the content, the better the rewards.
This game is basically the easier something is, the better rewards….
Point still stands, no one has really answered it.
Why does all the easy stuff in this game get rewarded more then doing any harder content?In most games ive played ( and thats alot in my 35 years )the harder the content, the better the rewards.
This game is basically the easier something is, the better rewards….
It’s a good question. Maybe because this game was never really about the rewards…even though people play it like it is.
Point still stands, no one has really answered it.
Why does all the easy stuff in this game get rewarded more then doing any harder content?In most games ive played ( and thats alot in my 35 years )the harder the content, the better the rewards.
This game is basically the easier something is, the better rewards….
It’s a good question. Maybe because this game was never really about the rewards…even though people play it like it is.
Well if this were any other game, id agree, but its a mmo.
The sole purposes of any rpgmmo is too get stronger with better gear from killing harder things. ie..raids etc.
Without rewards, there really is no point. I mean i may aswell go play skyrim , fallout or system shock2 ,which im replaying atm ( what a great game )
that are single player games.
The point of online mmo’s is to get stronger via rewards to play with or against others with these rewards…
Point still stands, no one has really answered it.
Why does all the easy stuff in this game get rewarded more then doing any harder content?In most games ive played ( and thats alot in my 35 years )the harder the content, the better the rewards.
This game is basically the easier something is, the better rewards….
It’s a good question. Maybe because this game was never really about the rewards…even though people play it like it is.
Even if it’s not about the rewards, it still makes absolutely no sense from a game design standpoint.
Anet seems to be hell bent on the fact that they want their players to play all content. Anyone with half a brain and knowledge about how gamers play their game will know that the bigger portion of the players will always look for the path of least resistance. If they make easy content equally rewarding to hard content, people will simply not do the hard content.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I play all the content. So do other people. It’s only a certain TYPE of player that is concerned about rewards. A lot of people aren’t. This game was obviously designed for them, since the reward system doesn’t seem to be working for anyone else. lol
arah is considered an elite dungeon..
So the reward is not the same of cof because skins are different.
Not that path 2-3 are difficult…..its only that the usual zerker build may be less efficient while a support build may be way stronger.
Once first part is ended, any support profession will really have an easy time with lupicus.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Imagine doing either one, open world or Arah and still getting nothing but that 1 guaranteed rare a day.
That’s what some people are still experiencing up until they get tired of it and leave the game entirely or talk themselves into believing that it’s not about the rewards system (facepalm)
You’re right there’s a serious issue with rewards hopefully what Colin has planned will make for a better system and make it worth while while fixing whatever it is that causes people to not get a single thing while doing these activities and some people to get everything all the time in the same activities every week every month in the same party.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Not that path 2-3 are difficult…..its only that the usual zerker build may be less efficient while a support build may be way stronger.
Lol, you’re funny. I guess we should start running support builds then. That 13min p3 the other day sure felt slow and inefficient.
Arah works like this: every boss is a joke if you DPS them down. Most of them only have 1 or 2 abilities that are easily reflected/dodged. How do you win in Arah? Don’t get hit, simple as that.
As for lupi, most of his attacks will 1 or 2-shot you no matter what gear you’re wearing. The best way to beat lupi easily is to dodge his attacks. Being support won’t help you at all, on the contrary, it will slow the kill down, only increasing the risk of a wipe.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I ll try to explain better:
If your party is not experienced enough (means you are not caring how much does it takes but you just want to kill lupicus without whiping) 1-2 support professions can ress even full dead players while being attacked by lupicus. (and its usually what i do when i pug lupi).
The same can t be done in any other dungon possibly. (mostly because lupi use mostly ranged Attacks and his attack rate is slow).
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
I ll try to explain better:
If your party is not experienced enough (means you are not caring how much does it takes but you just want to kill lupicus without whiping) 1-2 support professions can ress even full dead players while being attacked by lupicus. (and its usually what i do when i pug lupi).
Depends which phase you are in.
Phase 1: easy to rez, little risk, especially when ranging.
Phase 2: you better hope he ain’t gonna slap yo kitten use his AoE or use his ranged “lol, you dead” projectile, because you’re not going to enjoy it.
Phase 3: you better hope he’s not going to pewpew you, use his AoE lifesteal while you’re in the circle, use his distanced life steal, or dome the downed player (which he loves doing by the way).
So, in conclusion: rezzing people at lupi, unless you’re absolutely certain he’s not going to wreck your day is pretty risky.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Dungeon rewards should be based on how well explored the dungeon is. Speed runs should get a smaller reward.
The problem this trash mob only give trash loot (mostly), with difficulty silver mob. (If its normal trash mob or vet trash mob, so be it. But this is silver (mostly Arah mobs are silver) and few are gold, still giving trash loot (gray,white, not even guaranteed blue) is the real problem.)
(edited by deviller.9135)
Simple truth: the reward to risk/time factor for Arah is not on par with some dungeons like COF and COE.
Other than access to the ‘Arah’ gear, you get no benefit from running a 2 hour plus Arah P4 run versus a 10 minute COF P1 run. Same tokens. Same coin. Same junk loot.
[…] and my mesmer has x2 arah sets, zerker and rabbid. […]
I want a rabbid costume aswell!
im totally fine with the lack of loot i get from arah, i don’t run arah for loot, i run it because i actually think its a fun dungeon, obviously with a good group. i have 3 alts and all of them are full in arah gear, and my mesmer has x2 arah sets, zerker and rabbid. this dungeon gave me what i need, some of the better looking gear in the game, doesn’t look so cheapy as everything else, ugh especially crafted gear =P
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Wazzawhat?
For humans and sylvari its the best armor set in the game.
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Wazzawhat?
For humans and sylvari its the best armor set in the game.
Spiky metal bikini’s? Who in their right mind would wear such a travesty?
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I don’t like heavy arrah armor that much… The medium and light look amazing though. As I’m trying to save up tokens to get the light for my necro and medium for my ranger though I do feel as though the rewards for completing the paths suck…. It’s to the point I just run path 3 6 times a day on my 3 characters 2 times each for 100 tokens each… The time vs reward just isn’t nearly as much as it was in guild wars 1…
Honestly I think they should give 1 random exotic per path once per day… Kinda like the rares from world bosses… Would give one hell of a incentive to run all dungeons and paths.
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Wazzawhat?
For humans and sylvari its the best armor set in the game.Spiky metal bikini’s? Who in their right mind would wear such a travesty?
Me >.>
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Wazzawhat?
For humans and sylvari its the best armor set in the game.Spiky metal bikini’s? Who in their right mind would wear such a travesty?
Me >.>
WTB pic of dub in a spiky metal bikini.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Too bad Heavy Arah armor looks like absolute garbage on female characters.
Wazzawhat?
For humans and sylvari its the best armor set in the game.Spiky metal bikini’s? Who in their right mind would wear such a travesty?
Me >.>
WTB pic of dub in a spiky metal bikini.
MY EYES!
I personally do not think the time/reward to complete Arah is not rewarding enough, I like to think that if someone buy some Arah items is because you really like it or for the challenge to complete it. I do not see any significant change in this part(Time/Reward), and if there will be some, it well need to be more wider than just for Arah.