Guild Wars 2

Since I have been told quite a few times today that “playing the game is not about loot”

Would you still play Guild Wars 2 if they took ALL loot out?

Simple answer: No

no skin and stat progression except for doing dungeons/dailies etc. and get stuff with currency.

That would be a worse grind then my legendary is atm. No Crafting, no legendaries (at least not the way you can get them atm), less skins, les joy when you get lucky and loot 3 onyx lodestones for your Twilight in one FotM daily run etc

tl,dr still the same answer: no

Greetz (‘-’)/

Nope probly not.

I love looting on games. Not because there’s a expensive thing i want its just extra fun.

No loot or no rewards at all?

I would. I barely look at my loot, I just salvage it so I can deposit it to my collections tab without having to go back to town.
It would provide a challenge for the game designers though, because it would limit character customisation somewhat. But if my character had say, a ‘default’ set of armor and set of weapons, and I could buy skins to change my appearance from the gem store, then I’d happily keep running about blasting things.

I like the story, I like the combat, I like the graphics, I like the game play… loot or no loot.

Absolutelu not. As much as I enjoy the adventure of exploration, It’s the shinies that make me boing.

Navi.7142:

No loot or no rewards at all?

Rewards would be “achievements” only. No material gain. Money or drops.

kidhedera.7812:

I would. I barely look at my loot, I just salvage it so I can deposit it to my collections tab without having to go back to town.
It would provide a challenge for the game designers though, because it would limit character customisation somewhat. But if my character had say, a ‘default’ set of armor and set of weapons, and I could buy skins to change my appearance from the gem store, then I’d happily keep running about blasting things.

I like the story, I like the combat, I like the graphics, I like the game play… loot or no loot.

Armor would be standard issue. There would be no “skins”. No shiny of any kind. Your only reward would be the “fun” of killing for an achievement. There would be no monetary gain.

Only reward would be the fun of killing….in a game with an epic, endless, unfolding storyline with challenges around every corner that enables you to team up with friends to fight against uber-bosses and demon-beasts in the mouth of hell itself…maybe. But even GW2 cant profess to be all that so no

Thereon.3495:

Only reward would be the fun of killing….in a game with an epic, endless, unfolding storyline with challenges around every corner that enables you to team up with friends to fight against uber-bosses and demon-beasts in the mouth of hell itself…maybe. But even GW2 cant profess to be all that so no

In a world where Evil Dead is remade…

yes I would still play if they took out all loot. I just won’t be “farming” any more like I was forced to.

I’m relatively happy with the way loot is handled now.

Na why would i want to with how bad lag is and culling ( around dragons) with no loot( already missing getting chests from some dragon kills anyway) i would have to move on.

I haven’t really had loot since the 1/28 patch.

1/28 (post patch) – 5 hours (dungeon, open world nothing really worthwhile in loot, the new chest never even dropped for me)
1/29 – 1 1/2 hours, same open world pattern as 1/28 logged out.
1/30- 1 hour, same pattern as open world 1/28
1/31- 30 minutes, same pattern filed ticket, posted on forums, logged out, looked for new game.
2/1 + – Will check forums, if nothing has been updated won’t bother to log in.

So… no.

Of course. I’m not a grinder – which means, I’m better than a donkey running in order to reach a carrot dangling in front of its face. I’m playing GW2 for the same reason I play any othe game: because it’s fun. Not because of some meaningless rewards.

The issue with this forum (and with the MMO genre as a whole) is that it tends to be filled with grinders. Those do not make a solid playerbase, though.

One does not have to be a grinder to like shinies.

Paul.4081:

Thereon.3495:

Only reward would be the fun of killing….in a game with an epic, endless, unfolding storyline with challenges around every corner that enables you to team up with friends to fight against uber-bosses and demon-beasts in the mouth of hell itself…maybe. But even GW2 cant profess to be all that so no

In a world where Evil Dead is remade…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Dead_

Navi.7142:

One does not have to be a grinder to like shinies.

One does have to be a grinder to play through content one does not actually enjoy just to get shinies.

And, if the content is something one enjoys, why wouldn’t one play it even in the abscence of shinies?

Nalora.7964:

Navi.7142:

No loot or no rewards at all?

Rewards would be “achievements” only. No material gain. Money or drops.

Nope, I never even try for achievements in games, they are just lazy ways to keep people playing.

Would I have played and enjoyed the game? Yes, from 0-100% map completion the first time I didn’t care about levels or loot. I played because it was fun to explore and experience the world and I got $60 worth of fun out of it.

Would I continue playing now? Probably not except WvW but I don’t play that for loot (Wait what? There’s ‘loot’ in WvW? j/k…. kind of).

Yes. I would play more. It would encourage people to do things because they’re fun instead of because they drop better loot. I’ve seen people straight out say “I love PvP but you don’t get any loot from it so I’m not doing it”.

Another advantage is that everyone would be balanced – if there were no tiers of gear, everyone would be on an equal footing and not get some stupid advantage over others just because you play longer. It would be focused on the build, rather than having the top tier of stats.

Yet another advantage is that we would see more content. Instead of focusing on constantly balancing loot drops and making sure something isn’t exploitable for a lot of cash, anet could be spending that time on actually making things better. Fun is not always conductive with keeping the economy safe, either.

Honestly, this game was advertised as not being like most MMO’s but it still is. I hate the idea of grinding – why on earth would you reward patience over skill – and I hate the idea of people being able to make up for their own shortcomings through just getting bigger numbers. What happened to playing games for fun? I don’t remember anyone in Quake 3 arena complaining that there was no loot after a DM game. In fact there was no reward at all, just the fun and the community. People still palyed it.

I see people in this game who don’t even like the kittening game, they just grind because they want flashy stuff. Why would you do this? What significance is flashy stuff in something you don’t even enjoy? I don’t even know what they’d do once they get their legendary. Stop and look at yourself.

I can see why they still went to old MMO standards though – there is a certain demographic of mindless grinders whom they have to attract, or lose potential players (the hardcore players who will be there farming for days) and therefore money.

By ‘Loot’ are you referring to RNG or items in general? Dungeon armor and skins are a legitimate form of progression whereas RNG is an aging but still valid mechanic due to the element of unpredictability and excitement it adds to the universe. Every mob cannot give amazing loot, but every mob has a varying potential to do so, meaning there remains incentive to kill trash but not an incentive to shamelessly farm it. Skins reward time spent in game with visual aesthetics that are pleasing to the individual. The notion of GW2 ‘not being about the loot’ attacks the idea of materialism and the gear treadmill; it’s not debating the legitimacy of equipment-based progression.

That being said, I’d stop playing if loot was removed because it’s a reward and progression system that works and is enjoyable. The proposal that loot is a broken or necessary mechanic is absurd and you’re construing the idea you’re presenting here.

I would continue playing this game for the jumping puzzles alone. It might diminish the amount I play a bit, but I wouldn’t cease playing.

I’d probably continue playing. They’d have some other form of carrot in play if not loot.

Nalora.7964:

kidhedera.7812:

I would. I barely look at my loot, I just salvage it so I can deposit it to my collections tab without having to go back to town.
It would provide a challenge for the game designers though, because it would limit character customisation somewhat. But if my character had say, a ‘default’ set of armor and set of weapons, and I could buy skins to change my appearance from the gem store, then I’d happily keep running about blasting things.

I like the story, I like the combat, I like the graphics, I like the game play… loot or no loot.

Armor would be standard issue. There would be no “skins”. No shiny of any kind. Your only reward would be the “fun” of killing for an achievement. There would be no monetary gain.

No shineys? No fancy gear? No customization beyond standard issue choices? Comrade, the game you describe sounds bland. There would be not point in playing the game once you hit the level cap. At that point you could do nothing to make fighting more efficient. In such a game everyone becomes the same, no one can improve past that point. The people will lack motivation, the great machine will stop. Many will leave, those that remain will be sullen and unmotivated. At best the game becomes a chat room with dolls for avatars. Without self interest, what is ambition? If you cannot improve yourself (your avatar) why struggle? Of what use is cooperation? Yes I achieve the title more quickly, but for what? My avatar is in no way improved by gaining this achievement. What was the purpose then?

In short, motivation is required, value must be gained. Either a direct gain, or a word of gratitude.

Zebulous.2934:

No shineys? No fancy gear? No customization beyond standard issue choices? Comrade, the game you describe sounds bland.

That’s funny, because I could name a pile of games in other genres that have none of this yet are constantly played. Don’t tell me or the 100’s of thousands of people playing it (Right now, too) that Counter Strike is bland. However fun is not tolerable in the MMO genre unless there’s some kind of loot involved. Okay.

There would be not point in playing the game once you hit the level cap.

Doing things for fun. Like, games. Fun. Not work. Fun.

At that point you could do nothing to make fighting more efficient. In such a game everyone becomes the same, no one can improve past that point.

Learning to play. Advancing oneself through skill instead of band-aid patching the problem. You know, like ANY OTHER GAME EVER kittenING MADE.

The people will lack motivation, the great machine will stop.

You know, because of all those WvW players who play because of the massive loot that you get from world versus wor- oh wait.

Many will leave, those that remain will be sullen and unmotivated. At best the game becomes a chat room with dolls for avatars.

That’s funny, because that’s exactly what it is now for farmers. Farm, farm, farm and then you don’t actually like the game so you just idle in DR and LA and show off your epic loot that you earned through no personal skill, just having played longer and having more patience than other players.

You’re deluded. Brainwashed. You’ve been on the mmo genre for too long. You’ve got this WoW philosphy where everything is pointless if it’s not for some kind of internet money. You’re not playing for fun anymore, you’re playing for work.

It’s rediculous. I had someone ask me why I was using the basic greatsword skin when I had enough money for T3 cultural (which I was wearing). I told him because it looked cool. He couldn’t understand the concept that I was using a skin that I thought looked cool. He literally couldn’t understand. This is what the mmo mentality turns games into – showing off how much you grind to other players, not how much you actually want to play the game.

I kind of miss loot tables. I miss that feeling when you know that this boss might drop awesome looking helmet or something.

Ha, no. What would be the point in playing if you get nothing? Aren’t the main two points of acquiring gear the ability to show it off and the ability to more easily kill players? Without loot, we would have no gear except what is provided. It would basically be sPvP as PvE which means there is no reason to do any dungeons, dragons, fractals, etc since you get nothing out of it for the time spent unless you actually enjoy “wasting” time. I quote wasting because technically anything can be classified as wasted time, but ultimately in most games, we play to progress towards a virtual goal. Without any goal, why play?

Writetyper.1985:

Zebulous.2934:

No shineys? No fancy gear? No customization beyond standard issue choices? Comrade, the game you describe sounds bland.

That’s funny, because I could name a pile of games in other genres that have none of this yet are constantly played. Don’t tell me or the 100’s of thousands of people playing it (Right now, too) that Counter Strike is bland. However fun is not tolerable in the MMO genre unless there’s some kind of loot involved. Okay.

There would be not point in playing the game once you hit the level cap.

Doing things for fun. Like, games. Fun. Not work. Fun.

At that point you could do nothing to make fighting more efficient. In such a game everyone becomes the same, no one can improve past that point.

Learning to play. Advancing oneself through skill instead of band-aid patching the problem. You know, like ANY OTHER GAME EVER kittenING MADE.

I’ll go through quotes, i don’t want to divide everything, too much effort.

-You cant compare different genres since there are different rewards. Counter Strike is an FPS where your goal is to kill the other team, be better than someone else. The mechanics are different. MMORPG is based on progression, thats the RPG part of the game. If you don’t progress, its not an rpg.

-The fun part must come from somewhere. You need a goal to achieve, which in 98% of MMORPG is to improve, generally through gear or ranking or something. Being the best just for being the best is what you do when you love something, like music or stuff you study in your life. You cant compete in the market if your game has only pvp for sake of pvp, while competitors give also a reward.

-Again, fun must come from somewhere. You don’t do dungeons for fun when you have to do them 15 times. You do them because there’s a reward at the end. Therefore you grind them and then feel proud of your epic armor. kitten i don’t even know if people would do them even once if there isnt really a reward.

Everything i’ve said is not only a personal opinion, but the MMORPG society thought in general, because that’s how it’s been the last 15 years at least. You can’t just come and say “Hey! Let’s do it for the sole purpose of having fun!”. It won’t succeed.

Ontopic: Hell no. At least until they put a 2v2 or 3v3 on PvP.

Of course not. One of the most integral parts of MMOs is loot. It’s one of the main reasons I stopped playing WvW. You can only capture and defend the same kitten tower or keep so many times with no reward before it gets boring. I get that WvW is essentially a gold sink, but the fact that the general drop rate in PvE is so horrendous now is troubling.

This is something i was contemplating recently…

In all honesty, no, i don’t think people would play this game if not for the care-bear reward systems. In GW1, i played PvP, AB, RA, HA…all day long just for the sheer enjoyment in build / class / role variety.

In GW2, grouping is largely redundant and shallow because of skill design and lack of distinct roles. There are classes that are obviously better than others since there is no direct healer to balance and design encounter mechanics around. In the end, it feels really shallow.

I don’t think the gameplay is inherently rewarding like GW1 was for me. I think that if they didn’t reward you for breathing in this game, so to speak, there would be far less people playing. Something they excel at is putting out contrived garbage items for the casuals to buy in the cash shop ( Quaggan Backpack) and putting a ridiculous amount of effort and time into the reward systems.

What i’m saying is, nobody needed legendaries or daily reward structures to play GW1 for 6 plus years, myself included. Flat out, the main mode of gameplay is just not satisfying in my opinion. The combat is by far the weakest part of this game for me. They made a big mistake removing the monk class and designing the game like a shallow arcade fighter where players play alongside each other in a zerg rather than WITH each other.

tl;dr:

No, i don’t think many people would play this game if not for the over-tuned reward systems. People forget that games should be inherently rewarding and fun to play because of diverse options and enjoyable systems, not grind. I grinded for cosmetics in GW1 because i liked playing the game. In GW2, i grind because i forget what fun gameplay is and my mind thinks im having fun grinding. Skinner box design techniques in action, for your viewing pleasure.

It’s a terrible and loaded question. The thing is if NOBODY got loot, it would be a completely different game to start with.

People get loot to buy stuff that helps differentiate them from other players. It’s not about the loot itself for a lot of people but the look. Do people play FPS for the loot? Not many, I think. But plenty of people play FPSs.

A lot of it has to with the feeling of progression. As long as you felt like you were progressing somehow, it wouldn’t matter if there was loot, because no one would have it.

I’d play any game I enjoyed playing, loot or no loot. People played tetris for years, and there was no loot. But the game then needs to be designed around not having loot. You simply can’t take one thing out of the equation and ask that kind of question if you want the answer to be anything resembling meaningful.

If GW2 removed random armour/weapon drops I’d be significantly more interested in playing it. Up the drop rate of the various crafting ‘activators’ to a reasonable level, same for salvage item drops, but have the only entry point for gear into the system be player crafting or dungeon whatsits.

Of course without phat loots to do things for I guess people would get bored of logging in the fight The Shatterer every day hoping for something cool to fall out of his pockets, but that’s what you get for switching from a co-operative story-driven game to open-world MMO theme park.

Abbehemoth.2471:

Eh.. It’s kinda like asking: “Would you play Counter Strike if they took away all the guns, granades and knifes?”
Sure if GW2 was designed with that in mind that yes, but why would I try to drive a boat at land?

I feel that OP’s loaded question is directed at the opposition to vertical progression, in which case the counter question would be “Would you play Counter Strike if you needed 500 grenade kills to start each round with $1000 extra cash?”. Now some apologists will say that they like getting grenade kills, some people will say they’re not hard to get and others will say that $1000 is not big deal if you have good aim but the fact is that many players will be spending hundreds of hours doing something that they don’t find fun in order to unlock something so they can have fun.

there’s no loot in spvp, people play that.

I personally like the gameplay, and I like the loot, you can’t really just separate them and say it’s the same game.

I imagine there aren’t many RPG lovers in counter strike.

Czar Peter.7961:

Abbehemoth.2471:

Eh.. It’s kinda like asking: “Would you play Counter Strike if they took away all the guns, granades and knifes?”
Sure if GW2 was designed with that in mind that yes, but why would I try to drive a boat at land?

I feel that OP’s loaded question is directed at the opposition to vertical progression, in which case the counter question would be “Would you play Counter Strike if you needed 500 grenade kills to start each round with $1000 extra cash?”. Now some apologists will say that they like getting grenade kills, some people will say they’re not hard to get and others will say that $1000 is not big deal if you have good aim but the fact is that many players will be spending hundreds of hours doing something that they don’t find fun in order to unlock something so they can have fun.

The difference is, Counter Strike has excellent gameplay. GW2 gameplay is pretty shallow. So GW2 needs the loot, while Counter Strike doesn’t. If we had the original Guild Wars skill system, that would be an entirely other (and superior) beast.

No.

But as stated by vayne. Then it would be a different game.

I did however come here for many reasons one of which was to escape the shared looting of WOW where every drop was a battle between people trying to get the gear for their offspec without actually putting in the right role work and taking shortcuts, and people DELIBERATELY gimping themselves because they were lazy, GW2 sorted the first aspect at least and thus I was content. But overall we’ve no insight into drop rates and many feel it’s “unrewarding” and grindy, these players aren’t asking for an advantage to playing more they just want to play at their own pace and make SOME sort of progress, mainly and preferably purely aesthetic. For a game with a “horizontal progression” it’s got a shocking lack of skins.

Take all loot out? Yes, I would still play. This is of course assuming that they don’t strip down content beyond a loot system, aesthetic is pretty important to me here. But I have not been playing for loot much. I play WvW nonstop because it is fun. In terms of materialism, it is very unrewarding. I even wear 50% Exotic and 50% Rare stats, the stats aren’t having a big enough impact beyond that to make me prioritize rushing to peak stats. My performance and fun are not dependent on a loot system.

After spending hours in Orr whith no drops from champions and vetrans and 90% of trash mob I think we are going in that direction.
No I will not play if the only way to get things is to hit TP.

The Spiral King.2483:

The difference is, Counter Strike has excellent gameplay. GW2 gameplay is pretty shallow. So GW2 needs the loot, while Counter Strike doesn’t. If we had the original Guild Wars skill system, that would be an entirely other (and superior) beast.

Bingo. Someone gets it. To be fair I’ve had decent experiences with vertical progression in singleplayer RPG’s such as Baldur’s Gate and Dragon Age Origins, but they all had strong stories and the vertical progression enhanced build variety and character development. In MMO’s, they are ubiquitously used as substitute for gameplay.

Whoever told you this game is not about loot got it half right and half wrong. The game is many things to many people. Sure it COULD be about loot to some people, then on the other hand there are those that don’t worry too much about loot.

To answer your question, I am not sure. Without loot the game would be much more boring. People would pretty much ALWAYS avoid ALL monsters. Hell why kill them besides exp? Boring. Don’t tell me extra skill points once you are at 80, I have 4 chars at 80 already and my main has 200+ skill points saved up.

I wouldn’t play.

Epic loot gives me wowsers in my trousers.

Erasculio.2914:

Navi.7142:

One does not have to be a grinder to like shinies.

One does have to be a grinder to play through content one does not actually enjoy just to get shinies.

And, if the content is something one enjoys, why wouldn’t one play it even in the abscence of shinies?

Because shinies to some people make it even MORE enjoyable. That’s like saying would you play the game without DE’s? Yes we all COULD but would it be as exciting?

Loot is definitely an aspect to games. It’s just a type of achievement really, but in most cases it’s about making oneself more prominent – more so in a multiplayer game.

Point being is that removing loot would leave (from what I can see) two other aspects:

A. Social/Community
B. The Challenge

A. So is the game a good social multiplayer source? Well, the best way to look at this would probably be to take the roleplaying community. They can be a good example of how multiplayer games become extraordinarily social. So does GW2 have a good roleplaying community? Frankly, no, not from what I’ve seen. I know they exist in this game, it’s just that to the casual player; you’d never find them. So ultimately, the social aspect is rather dull when you take the extreme form into consideration.

B. PvP is probably the only real challenge because you’ll always have some other player who can 1-up you. Whereas with PvE you can learn the system, so things will be more predicable. PvE is the biggest design to this game, so without loot and a huge roleplaying community to take advantage of it, then it would die.

So the real question I would pose is how do you amplify PvE to support more social activity and challenges similar to PvP?

In most multiplayer games people tend to play against each other and that itself is the whole drive of the game. Just look at Modern Warfare or Street Fighter. Who says anything about loot in those games? It’s the competition.

I think the same competitive nature should be applied to PvE. Yet how do you do it without just making it another scrap of WvW or PvP? Easy, focus on achiements and scores. You don’t need to pit players completely against each other to still have competition. Ironically, a lot the loot is competition. Most people are playing so they can put themselves ‘at the top’.

So my solution here (to this underlining problem that OP made) is the focus on achievements. Add in detailed and complex scores into PvE. Get people competing not over getting the top gear the fastest, but over how well they complete events or solo 50-mobs of enemies in a minute. There’s hundreds of ways to do it, so why not?

As long as I had a way to look awesome anyway, yes, I would still play.
I actually think the game would be a better experience, provided there would still be anyone else playing.

“The game is not about the loot” argument is a silly misconception by people who are trying too hard to enjoy the game in a different way.

Loot is a fundamental part of the MMO concept, for it to be lacking would be like having an incomplete game.

It always bothers me when I see players make that argument.

You should be playing for loot, but not obsess over it. Many players are already comfortable playing that way, if they run a streak of bad luck, they can still enjoy other parts of the game to compensate.

Yes I would. I play to overcome obstacles and have fun alongside friends – loot is a part of that, but not the primary impetus.

Loot is only one aspect of the fun found in the game. Im glad it’s there – getting that special drop or crafting that unique looking weapon is fun – but it isnt the primary reason I log in to play.

I don’t think I would, namely because loot adds a certain random element to rewards that creates these “oh wow great loot!” moments that you just can’t get with a currency-based system.

When you’re looking down “this takes this many tokens” system, you look at it, and you know exactly how long it’s going to take to acquire thing X. There’s no wiggle room, and from there it just feels like a chore.

When you’re looking at a loot system which is tuned appropriately, you can see yourself gaining progress, but there’s also the chance that you can skip some of the progress by just plain getting lucky.

The way FOTM10 dailies work now is probably the best example of how I like to see good loot handled. Add a currency so that you can get your thingy eventually but also have that random drop chance to have it NOW, and your gameplay time feels more valuable and less like a chore to just collect X number of tokens.

There are not many new people entering the MMO market these days. The average age of the MMO gamer is in thier 30’s. This target demographic has had thier brain hard wired and conditioned for many years to behave a certain way in the presence of rewards. Modifying the reward schedules even slightly causes severe consequences.

This particular demographic is highly sensitive to rewards. This is not common in other demographics. It is unique to the MMO player.

wow this is an interesting question innit.

At first I thought ‘pfft this is silly of course not’.

But when I really think about it, there hasn’t been anything worth looting besides crafting mats and you don’t even need them.

All you need to do is grind some dungeons and you get full exotic in a few days. I really hope Devs can see this thread and ask themselves this question.