Guild Wars 2

(forum bug? I seem to have posted a blank box)

A well done D10 system would be great. Some friends an I did one for Guild wars years ago. We had fun with it. And some of my friends are great at braking systems.

I was actually thinking about this today, even planning to start design on it some time later (even though I haven’t been a tabletop rpg player for long, but I’ve made a couple of rpg games before).
So yeah I think it would be great to have a GW tabletop.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/creations/Guild-Wars-Tabletop-RPG/first#post4714321

I’ve started this thread in the community forum to help find more like minded people to actually make this work. Please check it out and maybe we can work together on something.

Its certainly something I would buy as I still enjoy table top RPGs as a more social way of playing to on the computer. Whether it actually got played would depend on the system, I hate to think how many game systems I have that have been played once, sometimes not even that much.

As far as loot goes, I do have a BIG stack of Munchkin decks so I could always use the treasure cards from them

I’d buy the base book, at least. But I think I’d look for what I need to convert it to Pathfinder, then go from that.

pdavis.8031:

Kross.6428:

Personally, I don’t understand the tabletop RPG craze. Most of my close friends stopped gaming with me so that they could partake in weekly DnD meetings, and I have joined them for quite a few to see what it was all about. However, I stopped going because it was terribly boring for me. I am someone that enjoys visual aspects of gaming and constant immersion, not any of this turn-based storytelling where I have to roll dice and imagine everything that is happening.

I think GW2 is better as a video game. I don’t understand why anyone would want to tabletop a video-game when they could just play the video-game itself…

Though, to each their own. For those that love tabletop RPGs, I guess Tyria would be a good setting for an adventure.

Tabletop gaming for many is more about the social aspect then immersion. A chance to get together face to face with friends and do something everyone enjoys. Many people also enjoy the chance to step away from work, kids, daily pressures of life and have some fun with friends without spending a ton of money. Also such games tend to bring people closer together and strengthen relationships. If you have a dedicated group of people that play on a regular basis, you are going to become close life long friends. Of course it’s not for everybody, but I would encourage you to at least try a few sessions before making a judegment on it.

I’ve gotten a few of my friends into it, who before held a similar view as yours. And these are people who generally thought of tabletop RPGs as something for “nerds” and those with “no life”. Once they got started, and we had a few sessions, they become excited about it and wanted to do more. If for no other reason then just for the social aspect of the game.

Both of these points are very valid. To the why would anyone do it, well the main reason i would see is for people to involve themselves more directly in the smaller stories which the devs are unable to expand on due to resource constrictions. That could include the civil wars, political machinations in DR, Centaur Wars, post-cleansing of Orr, or anything inspired by the various hearts and DE’s. Inconsistencies in the lore aside, there is so much material on variable scales for an RPer to play with. Finding the right system to capture the feel would be the main challenge.

As for the social aspect – this is fundamentally the most important part of RPing round a table. Many people who aren’t otherwise interested in other types of gaming, often find the pen ‘n’ paper RPG experience much more accessible and fun, purely for the group laughs and social interaction.

After all, there are no “noobs” or “elites” in pen ‘n’ paper RPGing.

Probably not a tabletop RPG, but I’d play a GW2 board game.

Randulf.7614:

After all, there are no “noobs” or “elites” in pen ‘n’ paper RPGing.

. . . are you sure you’ve played enough of them? Cause I guarantee they’re out there.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Randulf.7614:

After all, there are no “noobs” or “elites” in pen ‘n’ paper RPGing.

. . . are you sure you’ve played enough of them? Cause I guarantee they’re out there.

I’ve seen them. They exist. But! I help them improve. (Or shudder and flee in disgust, one of the two.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Randulf.7614:

After all, there are no “noobs” or “elites” in pen ‘n’ paper RPGing.

. . . are you sure you’ve played enough of them? Cause I guarantee they’re out there.

More than enough

Rauderi.8706:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Randulf.7614:

After all, there are no “noobs” or “elites” in pen ‘n’ paper RPGing.

. . . are you sure you’ve played enough of them? Cause I guarantee they’re out there.

I’ve seen them. They exist. But! I help them improve. (Or shudder and flee in disgust, one of the two.)

There’s a difference between newbs and n00bs. Newbs want to learn and get better. N00bs resist it on the grounds you can’t tell them how to play their game.

Seriously, I have seen it at conventions.

Ssshhh! Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is a tabletop RPG.

Behellagh.1468:

Ssshhh! Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is a tabletop RPG.

That would actually be amazing, can’t imagine the rage that would be all over the forums

If I remember systems correctly, I believe the Champions Online game pretty much was the test bed for the Champions system that got released shortly after the online game did. That could probably do a pretty decent job for it.

As far as d20 based DnD goes, you could flavor it, but it could never be identical. I’ve flavored up some Norn stuff as it for 3.×.

BESM could also do it with relative ease.

But the hard part would be replicating the trait/skill respecing. Then again there are just some things you toss aside in tabletop because tabletop is not a video game.

thedarkaxe.1379:

Behellagh.1468:

Ssshhh! Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is a tabletop RPG.

That would actually be amazing, can’t imagine the rage that would be all over the forums

I would cook burgers over my computer from the flames which would start.

OneYenShort.3189:

BESM could also do it with relative ease.

But the hard part would be replicating the trait/skill respecing. Then again there are just some things you toss aside in tabletop because tabletop is not a video game.

I have the TriStat dX book around here somewhere. I don’t think it would work TOO well, but then I never tried it out.

OneYenShort.3189:

BESM could also do it with relative ease.

But the hard part would be replicating the trait/skill respecing. Then again there are just some things you toss aside in tabletop because tabletop is not a video game.

I think the respecing should just be tossed aside since it doesn’t really have a place in a tabletop game imho. I can’t really think of a way to implement it without breaking the game/making everything too easy, unless there are some very strict rules about the respecing

> be me
> wake up in the morning
> make coffee
> check GW2 forum
> see 60+ posts
> question the monster I created

I started this thread to gauge the interest of the community on a GW2 tabletop. And it seems that there may be a few of you at there. If you are interested in actually drafting up a team of co-developers with me, send me a message. @pdavis feel free to message me

A little something I drafted up in a few minutes (see attachment):

cloudjsh.7814:

If you are interested in actually drafting up a team of co-developers with me, send me a message.

I’d love to help and just tried to send you a PM, but due to this being my first day on the forums I wasn’t allowed to send a PM (had to wait two days or something). I still wanted to let you know I’m interested in working on the project though.

thedarkaxe.1379:

cloudjsh.7814:

If you are interested in actually drafting up a team of co-developers with me, send me a message.

I’d love to help and just tried to send you a PM, but due to this being my first day on the forums I wasn’t allowed to send a PM (had to wait two days or something). I still wanted to let you know I’m interested in working on the project though.

Thanks @thedarkaxe. I’ll send you a PM sometime tomorrow too. It seems @pdavis is on board. Perhaps we can set up a Skype time soon and chat.

Anyone else who is interested is free to join.

Cloudjsh

Are you thinking of creatkng a whole new system or modifying a current system?
Either way would be super cool.

I’d love to sign on, but three things are keeping me from doing this.

- First, I don’t know if I’d have the time to do much with it other than either nod or shake my head at things.

- Second, I don’t have RL side capability to really playtest this. There are no players in my circle who will play a RPG derived from an MMO after the whole EQRPG debacle.

- Lastly, as I said, an RPG seems less what would work than simply an engine for creating a “mission based” adventure game. I said “Wrath of Ashardlon” but I suspect “Descent” could work and “HeroQuest” could work too if it wasn’t really stripped down.

In the end, you want a good tabletop concept? Look back to those old cardboard-token wargames. I’d start with War of the Ring from SPI . . .

I’d potentially be interested, but I have to admit I’m probably not familiar enough with GURPS to help with translating the mechanics.

thedarkaxe.1379:

OneYenShort.3189:

BESM could also do it with relative ease.

But the hard part would be replicating the trait/skill respecing. Then again there are just some things you toss aside in tabletop because tabletop is not a video game.

I think the respecing should just be tossed aside since it doesn’t really have a place in a tabletop game imho. I can’t really think of a way to implement it without breaking the game/making everything too easy, unless there are some very strict rules about the respecing

Not necessarily. Respeccing could be themed as a character focusing on a particular part of their training over another. It’s really no different to a cleric or wizard in a D20 system (4e excepted) being able to completely change their spell list every day if they so chose.

That said, in a PnP game you don’t have to be limited to two weaponswaps and three utilities, especially if an appropriate system is put in place to limit what you can reasonably use in a single combat. So it could well be a case of ‘there is no respeccing, you actually know everything you’ve unlocked at once, but can only use so much of it’. Particularly since some traits and the like are intended to reflect what used to be enchantments in GW1 – so, for example, the guardian greatsword trait (which grants extra damage and a small heal on hit) could become an enchantment that the guardian has to cast, costing them magical resources.

Would you play a Guild Wars 2 Tabletop RPG? Yes but without Living Story and with plenty of expansions. However that would make me quit the online version of the game.

pdavis.8031:

Cloudjsh

Are you thinking of creatkng a whole new system or modifying a current system?
Either way would be super cool.

I would build a whole new system from the ground up.
Which is why I would like a few other heads involved to bounce ideas back and forth.

I noticed you have some experience and a liking for Pathfinder.

Honestly, I’ve played the d20 system for over 6+ years and its a great system.

However, I do not believe it is the right type of system to build around for the feel that I believe Guild Wars provides.
The d20 system creates many limitations to a player’s creativity due to its overarching list of prerequisites. I believe, though a great system, PF/d20 is a great tabletop combat simulator. However, there are too many systematic hurdles to keep in check and be mindful of when trying to co-create a great story— which I believe what a roleplaying game is at its core. I could go on and on about many of the d20 system’s mechanical and logistical underminings— but that is a conversation better left on Skype. =)

I’m curious however, what is your experience with other systems?

Again, thanks for your enthusiasm. Its great too see over tabletop RPG fans with a similar love for GW2!

I have VERY little experience in any other systems. I have tried to get into White Wolf games, and am vaguely familiar with the system. Of course I can always do more research on that system and go from there. Also I have a “beta” test of a space RPG a buddy of mine made that deals with interstellar space battles and the like. I’ll have to see if I can find it, and go over it again. (It’s been a few years, and never actually got to play.) But it is a unique system he developed. Maybe that will provide some ideas.

Kross.6428:

Personally, I don’t understand the tabletop RPG craze. Most of my close friends stopped gaming with me so that they could partake in weekly DnD meetings, and I have joined them for quite a few to see what it was all about. However, I stopped going because it was terribly boring for me. I am someone that enjoys visual aspects of gaming and constant immersion, not any of this turn-based storytelling where I have to roll dice and imagine everything that is happening.

I think GW2 is better as a video game. I don’t understand why anyone would want to tabletop a video-game when they could just play the video-game itself…

Though, to each their own. For those that love tabletop RPGs, I guess Tyria would be a good setting for an adventure.

On the other hand, I never get lag playing a table top game. Just saying.

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, I never get lag playing a table top game. Just saying.

I do. All the time.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, I never get lag playing a table top game. Just saying.

I do. All the time.

It’s true…once had a lag so bad one of my players DCed and never came back…
That’s the last time I allow alcohol at my games… :P

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, I never get lag playing a table top game. Just saying.

I do. All the time.

LMAO! Somehow I don’t think that’s lag.

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, I never get lag playing a table top game. Just saying.

I do. All the time.

LMAO! Somehow I don’t think that’s lag.

What else do you call “quit rolling the dice in the cup and just go already”?

Absolutely!!!

I still play table-top RPG’s with an awesome RPG group. I’d LOVE to play an Asura in a in-person, paper RPG.

Lag, aka, making decisions at the speed of snails.

DnD tried this with 4.0, it was horrible. So no.

Emiko.3217:

Absolutely!!!

I still play table-top RPG’s with an awesome RPG group. I’d LOVE to play an Asura in a in-person, paper RPG.

Heres your Asura!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-v4j854VeWr-sZ-yuA185f1eiqpkJv-PvD_EFLPTGi0/edit

It’s based on Pathfinder. Just some things I’ve been tossing around.

And heres a Sylvari
http://10d6.blogspot.com/2013/04/conversion-sylvari-race-from-guild-wars.html#!/2013/04/conversion-sylvari-race-from-guild-wars.html

Sirendor.1394:

Tabletop RNG? :O

Have you heard of these things called dice? They’re quite common in tabletop games.

Serophous.9085:

DnD tried this with 4.0, it was horrible. So no.

I didn’t think it was horrible.

. . . I thought the late periods of 3.5 with “let’s see what extra splatbooks break things the most” was horrible. But that’s me.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Serophous.9085:

DnD tried this with 4.0, it was horrible. So no.

I didn’t think it was horrible.

. . . I thought the late periods of 3.5 with “let’s see what extra splatbooks break things the most” was horrible. But that’s me.

4 you could still splat, not to mention the mechanics for healing were god aweful as well. And having to keep track of soooo many cards later on. I did feel like I was playing an mmo again managing my bars.

Yes, 3.5 was stupidly OP later on if you knew how to do it, but it still wasn’t made to feel like an mmo. 4.0 felt like and played like an mmo, but worse.

5.0 seems promising so far

Serophous.9085:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Serophous.9085:

DnD tried this with 4.0, it was horrible. So no.

I didn’t think it was horrible.

. . . I thought the late periods of 3.5 with “let’s see what extra splatbooks break things the most” was horrible. But that’s me.

4 you could still splat, not to mention the mechanics for healing were god aweful as well. And having to keep track of soooo many cards later on. I did feel like I was playing an mmo again managing my bars.

Yes, 3.5 was stupidly OP later on if you knew how to do it, but it still wasn’t made to feel like an mmo. 4.0 felt like and played like an mmo, but worse.

5.0 seems promising so far

Hehe. Wait another year. 5.0 will be just as trash as any other version. I never saw 4e as much an MMO as I did . . . this . . . but then, some of my D&D games back in 2nd edition felt like “sit back and watch the Wizards and Clerics do the work”.

OneYenShort.3189:

If I remember systems correctly, I believe the Champions Online game pretty much was the test bed for the Champions system that got released shortly after the online game did. That could probably do a pretty decent job for it.

CO was actually based on the older Champions game that used the “Hero System” of gaming. It lost a lot when being converted to an MMO.

And that’s the big advantage of a tabletop game over an MMO. You can go into more detail about things, make rules that allow new things. Add twists and variations that just wouldn’t be worth the effort in an MMO.

Let’s ask this: Even if you’re not into gaming, how many of you would buy the books just to get background details on the things the game can’t or doesn’t cover? Would you buy the additional books that cover things like the asuran schools? Skritt? Largos? Hall of Monuments? I think some people would be tempted, at the very least.

To get more information then you could get from in-game and current out-of-game sources you’d need at least some level of cooperation from ArenaNet, though.

On 4E versus 3.5E: 4E always felt to me like they were trying to adapt MMO mechanics to a tabletop game. It… kinda worked, although it got too blatently monetised for me (when they started putting skill cards in miniatures boxes with rules you couldn’t get any other way… legally, anyway). However, while I think it made for a good starting point for players new to the hobby, it was a bit simplistic to be really satisfying.

3.5 did get silly towards the end (Complete Cheese, aka Complete CHeese AMPlified through Incompetant Omission of Nerfings) but it’s easier to just ignore or houserule out particularly broken rules items than to fix the fundamental skeleton of the game, which was where – for those who didn’t like it – the problem with 4E was.

draxynnic.3719:

To get more information then you could get from in-game and current out-of-game sources you’d need at least some level of cooperation from ArenaNet, though.

On 4E versus 3.5E: 4E always felt to me like they were trying to adapt MMO mechanics to a tabletop game. It… kinda worked, although it got too blatently monetised for me (when they started putting skill cards in miniatures boxes with rules you couldn’t get any other way… legally, anyway). However, while I think it made for a good starting point for players new to the hobby, it was a bit simplistic to be really satisfying.

Lovely bit was where you didn’t really need all the “Fortune Cards” and the like. I play without them fine. And I print my own cards anyway for skills/items so people can keep track at the table.

See, the thing about it was their monetization attempts weren’t new, they just had WOTC on them. Dwarven Forge existed before “Dungeon Tiles” got silly, not to mention the miniature market (oh lord the miniature market). The cards? Pfft, find yourself some scans of the text or just make up your own. You’re the GM, you can do that.

Honestly speaking, I still have “The Big Box of Spells” as I call it, from 2nd edition. If you want to call foul for monetization? TSR was doing it way worse . . . the problem I have with 4th edition was how support just sort of stopped for any Campaign Setting rather quickly.

3.5 did get silly towards the end (Complete Cheese, aka Complete CHeese AMPlified through Incompetant Omission of Nerfings) but it’s easier to just ignore or houserule out particularly broken rules items than to fix the fundamental skeleton of the game, which was where – for those who didn’t like it – the problem with 4E was.

I had more problems working with having to get around cheese in 3.5 than I did the ‘feel’ of 4e. I had more players walk away from a table when I rejected splatbooks they’d show up with, and one who just wanted to play Cthulu instead of DnD. I also got newer players up to speed faster, so . . . there’s that too.

It’s entirely off topic and I’ll run back away from this, but I seriously think their attempts weren’t to “make it like an MMO”. I already linked what I thought the goal could have been – the board games which barely really alter the 4e combat mechanics.

And that’s what I’d want to make for GW2 instead of an RPG book. It pretty much encapsulates what people do when they play the game – pick yourself a goal, and go do it. Dungeon? Fractals? PvP? Event runs? Can handle that all without needing to go to a full on RPG, and the rules would be easier to put together too.

http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/archive/

A good site for reviews of board games. Mostly modern games but they also touch on some older stuff occasionally. It’s a good site to follow to see what you can do with board games mechanically and to see what’s working or not.

While it is just their opinion they do an excellent job of talking over things and breaking down how they reach their decisions.

They didnt make like an mmo, the design philosophy was to cater for the mmo generation, bringing in concepts more closely aligned to what online players are used to.

In terms of GW as a rules set…ill have a think and go through my rpg shelves to see if anything fits as a starting point for you

Randulf.7614:

They didnt make like an mmo, the design philosophy was to cater for the mmo generation, bringing in concepts more closely aligned to what online players are used to.

In terms of GW as a rules set…ill have a think and go through my rpg shelves to see if anything fits as a starting point for you

I can think of two, and both require . . . modification. In short – you’re gonna need to homebrew.

d20 isn’t a bad fit, but it comes with a lot of baggage. Primarily how it falls down outside of combat, but since GW2 really is an active game and conflict/combat is at the heart of it with minor window dressing around it? It could work. But you’d need to really take some effort to polish it away from the Vancian magic and towards something else.

Secondly . . . Sanguine Productions has a game called “Ironclaw”. Its system is actually fairly robust for storytelling purposes, and can very easily be adapted to Tyria as well as allowing for other races to be worked with. A little fixing so Traits/Masteries can be added in there as well as some thematic-driven changes? Could work well.

My experience at the time was mostly through organised play, and unlike Living Greyhawk the 4E organised play campaign was run directly by WOTC so… yeah. Getting a complete set of rules basically meant owning every product that WOTC put out under the D&D label. 3.5 had rules on cards with miniatures as well, but those were just summaries of a statblock that was either in a book somewhere or could be derived by adding levels to something.

That said, what really turned me off was being excited that a particular character concept was made possible through a splatbook… and then promptly realising that the 4E system didn’t really allow for much wriggle room in character concepts. It was either one of the class variants giving to you on a silver platter by WOTC or you’d be trying to twist one of those variants into what you want.

That said, I’ve always maintained that 4E was a good system for beginners, it just wasn’t always a satisfying system for more advanced players (YMMV, of course). It sounds like you were often DMing for players less experienced than yourself, which would make the simpler system more advantageous. Most of the people I play with nowadays are people who have played for years, and things like every area of effect being a square is just too simplified for them.

That said, something like the 4E combat system probably would work for a GW2-esque combat system. Just have skills with areas that aren’t squares, and have cooldown periods that aren’t simply ‘at will’, ‘short rest’ and ‘long rest’. I’d be inclined towards a book rather than a board game, though, since as you say yourself, the board game would simply be replicating what you could do ingame. A full on RPG, on the other hand, lets you tell your own stories.

draxynnic.3719:

That said, I’ve always maintained that 4E was a good system for beginners, it just wasn’t always a satisfying system for more advanced players (YMMV, of course). It sounds like you were often DMing for players less experienced than yourself, which would make the simpler system more advantageous. Most of the people I play with nowadays are people who have played for years, and things like every area of effect being a square is just too simplified for them.

I was DMing for a mixed group, honestly. Some experienced, some experienced with roleplay, and some fresh faces. One of them has been constant and they’re generally the one who can keep my game group . . . anchored. Not to be the leader of the group but to make sure it’s stable and everyone can have fun.

And you’re not wrong. 4E is good for beginners but when you want to stretch a bit, when you want your own concepts it has a problem trying to get the pieces to fit well. Of course, a good DM can make it work. But that’s true of any system . . . no, I dare say it is of crucial importance to any system.

That said, something like the 4E combat system probably would work for a GW2-esque combat system. Just have skills with areas that aren’t squares, and have cooldown periods that aren’t simply ‘at will’, ‘short rest’ and ‘long rest’. I’d be inclined towards a book rather than a board game, though, since as you say yourself, the board game would simply be replicating what you could do ingame. A full on RPG, on the other hand, lets you tell your own stories.

Apt. And the square-based system was to make it easy to use miniatures and a grid . . . to simplify for new players rather than force odd grids. Accessibility, one of the cornerstones the GW2 game was built on – being able to play even if you didn’t know anything about MMOs.

As for telling your own stories? You can do that in anything, you don’t need a rulebook to tell you how. You don’t need a GM telling you the rules don’t let you do that, or forcing them to bend. I’ve seen, and been party, to it being done with no rules, no dice, and no prep work other than five minutes answering five questions all around the table.

draxynnic.3719:

thedarkaxe.1379:

I think the respecing should just be tossed aside since it doesn’t really have a place in a tabletop game imho. I can’t really think of a way to implement it without breaking the game/making everything too easy, unless there are some very strict rules about the respecing

Not necessarily. Respeccing could be themed as a character focusing on a particular part of their training over another. It’s really no different to a cleric or wizard in a D20 system (4e excepted) being able to completely change their spell list every day if they so chose.

True, guess I was thinking more along the lines of traits=feats (or something similiar).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And you’re not wrong. 4E is good for beginners but when you want to stretch a bit, when you want your own concepts it has a problem trying to get the pieces to fit well. Of course, a good DM can make it work. But that’s true of any system . . . no, I dare say it is of crucial importance to any system.

Yeah, that’s another issue with playing in organised play. In a home game, you can work with your DM to make the pieces fit – in fact, I think there was somewhere early in 4E (possibly the DMG) where exactly that was recommended, the example being switching radiant damage to necrotic for an evil paladin.

As for telling your own stories? You can do that in anything, you don’t need a rulebook to tell you how. You don’t need a GM telling you the rules don’t let you do that, or forcing them to bend. I’ve seen, and been party, to it being done with no rules, no dice, and no prep work other than five minutes answering five questions all around the table.

A board game where you only have the rules for the scenario played out in the board game makes it a bit difficult. :P

Otherwise… yeah. Some systems might have more rules oriented towards roleplaying rather than combat, but I’ve been involved in roleplays where the only rule was that godmoding too much would be frowned on.