WouldGW2 be more successful with HolyTrinity?
Why is it hard for people to grasp that having an old system doesn’t need to carry over to other games? ANet has done a really good job so far with breaking that status quo with GW2. What they need to focus on is more challenging content for PvE.
Give that man a prize. We have a winner.
Actually I wouldn’t say 90% because there are large numbers of us who left this game as seen by their Q4 earnings report last year which was released just prior to their announcement of HoT.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
It’s been well established that they can add trinity elements without making the holy trinity a requirement.
I played both GW1 and GW2 – I prefer the Holy Trinity since it lead to:
1. Better cooperative play
2. Way more fun (even when things failed – at least we knew the reason why – i.e. healer disconnected…). Right now, if something goes wrong in GW2, everyone blames the ranger!
3. Did not confuse new players from other games, hence an EASIER learning curve.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
You know you answered your own question with your question, don’t you?
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
I think you’re misinterpreting the reason why people leave the game. The trinity setup is nothing more than how a class is played. People (PvErs) left the game because there is a severe lack of end-game content to keep them busy and something to work towards.
And then you have people potentially leaving the game because PvP has no arena style mode, match making is a complete joke, and the leaderboards doesn’t show skill but rather time played.
None of this has to do with how the class design is in GW2 but rather the lack of expanding on PvE and PvP.
Like I said before. If it require more team work, and combine spells for combos to take the place of tanking. Where people have to work with each other to live. This system would be amazing, but watching videos of it..just made me go huh? The holy Trinity would be better than that. At least some team work would happen. This is just sloppy and not fun looking at all.
Man, you’re on point today, Phokus.
I played both GW1 and GW2 – I prefer the Holy Trinity since it lead to:
1. Better cooperative play
This. There’s a lot of content in GW2 which is easier solo (You are no-life, know every animation and u can safely bet you’ll win, in longer time though) than with a group (riddiculous for MMO), cuz someone didnt dodge and were thrown through the length of room and boss shadowwalked to him. <cough>lupi<cough>.
And the PvE system which allows ppl to solo every dungeon with exceptions like arah p4 or cof p1 which is impossible.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
I think you’re misinterpreting the reason why people leave the game. The trinity setup is nothing more than how a class is played. People (PvErs) left the game because there is a severe lack of end-game content to keep them busy and something to work towards.
And then you have people potentially leaving the game because PvP has no arena style mode, match making is a complete joke, and the leaderboards doesn’t show skill but rather time played.
None of this has to do with how the class design is in GW2 but rather the lack of expanding on PvE and PvP.
Don’t forget WvW which has been past the point of stale and boring for quite a while.
Haven’t perused the thread in its entirety, I suspect it has backwashes and eddies and deadly undercurrents, but in response to the title question, yes, I think GW2 would would have been more successful with the so-called Holy Trinity.
Or the Divine Quaternity we had in City of Heroes: tanker, blaster/scrapper, defender, controller. Yeah.
I don’t know how people can get bored with a healer role which was the most demanded probably in every “trinity” MMO.
At its simplest, healing is boring. It’s only when you get to fairly advanced content that actually healing/shielding other players is fun.
And when you are in content like that, the sort of things you do as a healer aren’t really different to Guild Wars 2 staples like plonking down a Feedback or Wall of Reflection to defend against projectiles, laying down a black powder field to make enemies incapable of hitting you in melee, or firing off Virtue of Courage to negate a big hit without losing DPS.
In fact, more examples of strong healing skills that target allies would probably be a pretty safe addition to the game and may even see use — there are already strategies for some fights that rely on the Tome of Courage spells, for example.
What do you mean gw2 is “second to wow only in the genre”?
I’d presume it means that that poster hasn’t seen the kind of figures that the original Lineage routinely posts.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
As always, that’s very unlikely to be anything to do with Arenanet not caring enough about your personal pet issue. There was something of a content drought then, and at the same time, there were probably plenty of people being tempted by ArcheAge and Warlords of Draenor, both of which had the advantage of being fresh and shiny at a time when Guild Wars 2 was anything but.
(edited by evilunderling.9265)
I played both GW1 and GW2 – I prefer the Holy Trinity since it lead to:
1. Better cooperative playThis. There’s a lot of content in GW2 which is easier solo (You are no-life, know every animation and u can safely bet you’ll win, in longer time though) than with a group (riddiculous for MMO), cuz someone didnt dodge and were thrown through the length of room and boss shadowwalked to him. <cough>lupi<cough>.
And the PvE system which allows ppl to solo every dungeon with exceptions like arah p4 or cof p1 which is impossible.
I believe that’s good design. Mastery of content lets you truly master it rather than having requirement held over your head. While it’s easier to solo lupi than play with a baddy it’s surely much easier to play with a group who are at least all decent at it. I mean look at the people properly using refelcts (not wall trick but normal usage), ice bows, and other tools to blow him out of the water, compare that to the 4-5 min solos that are the best possible (personally I’m quite a bit over that on mine ) .
Actually I wouldn’t say 90% because there are large numbers of us who left this game as seen by their Q4 earnings report last year which was released just prior to their announcement of HoT.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
…
I’d say there are 3 main reasons why people may have left GW2:
1. They were used to other games and expected more of the same and couldn’t adjust to a different way to play. So it was more of a l2p issue. It’s hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
2. They were/are easily bored, continually looking for the new shiny. When Anet didn’t add the new content that they wanted they moved on to the next thing.
3. They were disillusioned with the changes made to the game in the past year and the failure of Anet to fix existing problems.
If GW2 had a trinity from the beginning I think they would have made less money. Some of the appeal of GW2 is because it didn’t have a trinity. And if Anet added a trinity to the existing game even more people would stop playing than those who leave because of the lack of one.
So to answer the OP’s question – no.
If non-trinity was so awesomesauce why did all those people leave?
One could also pose the exact same question going the other way: if the trinity was so awesomesauce why have millions left WoW and other games that use the trinity system?
I highly doubt the existence of trinity plays a role in either question for the majority of players. Fun is fun. You can have fun with or without trinity. If people left, odds are they weren’t having fun, and that could be attributed to any number of things.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Well if they add HC mode or somthink,main reason why dungeons are fail in GW2 is they are that easy you can run them with 5dps(Bezerkers) and easy mindless dungeons get boring fast….
I played both GW1 and GW2 – I prefer the Holy Trinity since it lead to:
1. Better cooperative play
Define “better”.
A player demanding a heal from another player to survive or a player flipping a switch so that the group may survive… one style forces players to rely on other players – which is cooperation, sure. The other style forces players to rely on, well other players. Same thing. The only thing different is that the latter doesnt put artificial limitations on your playstyle (a dpser cant heal! A tank cant dps! A healer cant dps! Etc).
The fact that many GW2 mobs have mediocre mechanics that is overshadowed by heavy zerker builds is another thing. For example the Shatterer fight is ridiculous and require zero thought, while Tequatl actually require alot of… you guessed it… cooperation. Without the trinity. Just players relying on other players to do what they are supposed to do.
I would love to see a slight shift toward the trinity. I think allowing for some dedicated tanking and a need for buffing and healing in combat could help make the PvE more rewarding and complex.
In fact those builds are already allowed and possible. Try to have more toughness than anyone in your group and you ll see that mobs and a lot of bosses will love you more than your team mates. Play a nomad mass/shield guard and you can be a tank with plenty of self heal and blocks.
You can also be a healer, try water staff ele with altruistic healing and sigil of water and rune of the monk and you will be pleased by plenty of green numbers.
Does it make encounters more challenging ? No, they are just longer but easier.
Basically this is allowed but it is not mandatory which is the design they wanted from the whole beginning.
And just some food for thought : a lot of people join a World boss train or kill champion randomly on the map. Having a need of tanks and healers would be hard to implement for them since everyone not in a group would receive no targeted heal. On top of that, most of the time one or two tanks would be needed so all the others would just be denied the playstyle they choose.
Well if they add HC mode or somthink,main reason why dungeons are fail in GW2 is they are that easy you can run them with 5dps(Bezerkers) and easy mindless dungeons get boring fast….
Correction : the dungeons became easy after 2 years of running them. Look at that thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Incredibly-hard-incredibly-unrewarding, you will see how time has passed
(edited by Ranael.6423)
So I was watching Towelliee(a popular WOW streamer), and he said this:
“GW2 has the best PVP and combat out of all MMOs, If GW2 had Holy Trinity, with that pvp and dungeons ,it would be the No.1 MMO in the world” this is his quote, When I first heard of it, I thought it’s totally nuts and holy trinity is bad so gw2 don’t need it, but later when I think about. I actually think he is legit. GW2 might not be unique and a better game with holy trinity, but I really do think it would be more successful. Because as I know 90% of the people were turned down by no holy trinity, which is the only reason people play other mmo(WOW, SWTOR,etc.) instead of GW2, imagine if gw2 went with holy trinity, people often say XXX mmo is WOW killer, I think GW2 would actually kill WOW.
PS: all my opinion.I watched a bit of Towelliee’s stream the other day and honestly this is the last person that anyone should take advice from when it comes to GW2. He knows nothing about the game or depth of combat whatsoever, it was a constant stream of “I don’t know what’s going on”, “I don’t know what’s going on”, “I don’t know what just happened”, “What was that?”, “I don’t know what’s going on.”
Sounds like he can give excellent feedback on the effectiveness of the NPE.
I don’t think there are enough NPE’s in the world to teach someone that doesn’t want to learn. It was like watching someone that only knows how to play checkers that saw a bishop move diagonally in chess and said. “Oh, it’s the same thing!”
Then when he jumps into a chess match goes, “I don’t know what’s going on”, “I don’t know what’s going on”, “I don’t know what just happened”, “What was that?”, “I don’t know what’s going on”, “This game needs to restrict to diagonal moves only!!”
main reason why dungeons are fail in GW2 is they are that easy you can run them with 5dps(Bezerkers) and easy mindless dungeons get boring fast….
Well, that’s pretty much stock drivel, so here are some stock responses:
- People putting content on farm doesn’t make that content mindless. Groups will put even the hardest of hardcore raids on farm eventually, if the rewards are worthwhile.
- Those “5 DPS” groups you’re talking about are anything but — they include multiple players brought along specifically to provide offensive support, defensive support, and utility — at the expense of individually stronger damage dealers.
I don’t understand OPs question.
I thought, there already is holy trinity in GW2.
(In PvE, at least.)
“Only the finest of potatoes in my zerkburgers.”
(edited by wauwi.9162)
I think allowing for some dedicated tanking and a need for buffing and healing in combat could help make the PvE more rewarding and complex.
See, though, that’s just what’s going on in dungeons now. The exceptions are that players may not be playing one role exclusively.
Tanking: What does a tank do? He protects the other party members from the mob’s attacks. How does he do this in trinity? He faces the mob away and uses taunts and high hate-generating attacks to keep the mob(s) attacking him. How does a player do this in GW2? He uses Aegis, reflects, blinds, deep freeze, immobilize, etc.
Support: I’ve only rarely been in dungeon runs where there was no support in use, or runs where someone in the party did not use a group heal or revive a downed player. Remember that the downed state and the ability to recover is part of the healing mechanic in GW2. Those runs I’ve been in where people did not do these things did not go well.
People seem to forget that all of this stuff is going on. Or they discount it because players aren’t wearing gear that determines what they’re doing. Or they discount it because one doesn’t play the same role the whole time. However, what happens when that buffing and defensive support is lacking?
The first time I experience a dungeon (in my opinion), I’d love to see that it’s challenging, but, the first time I experienced a dungeon in Guild Wars 2, I wouldn’t even call it challenging, I’d call it silly, and not a whole lot of fun. I’m not too sure how much the dungeons have actually changed now a days being away from Guild Wars 2 for a LONG period of time, but before, it was just getting mercilessly stomped, and wiped, over, and over, until one of us could last long enough to have the party revive and make it back to the boss room before the last player was downed/killed. This is alone what drove away many players from the game, including my friends.
I don’t agree with Humor’s conclusion that it was lack of trinity which ruined the dungeon experience for he and his friends. After all, 2.5+ years down the road the dungeons are completed on automatic pilot by players who are using the non-trinity support and control options to enable easy completion.
It sounds like Humor (and I’m sure many others) came from a trinity situation where challenge is managed for you by the tank/heal mechanics and were thrust into GW2 dungeons with no preparation or experience in how to manage dungeon encounters using the available tools. The persistent world content barely teaches you to use dodge and the heal skill, never mind offensive and defensive buffs, combo fields or anything else.
I had a guy on Reddit tell me yesterday that if I don’t accept the holy trinity, he “doubts [I’ll] ever find happiness in life.”
This game has no trinity. It should never have a trinity. If you want an MMO with a trinity, there are literally dozens of games you can play. Choice is good.
Make the right choice: say no to strict role specialization.
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
I had a guy on Reddit tell me yesterday that if I don’t accept the holy trinity, he “doubts [I’ll] ever find happiness in life.”
This game has no trinity. It should never have a trinity. If you want an MMO with a trinity, there are literally dozens of games you can play. Choice is good.
Make the right choice: say no to strict role specialization.
“Y’all need Treesus in ya life. Y’all don’t need three roles, you only need one, and that’s the servant of our mord and salivator, Mordremoth. …Lord and savior. I said lord and savior. …Whatever, I’m gonna go wreck another resort town or blow up an orphanage somewhere.”
See, this is why trinity arguments are bad.
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
ANet needs to work with the system they have to make it what is wanted, not go running back to the old tried and true (tired and overused) trinity. They are trying to shake up how combat in MMOs is done. Maybe they’ll fail but unless companies try, it will be Holy Trinity forever.
ANet may give it to you.
The OP’s original problem statement says, in effect: “GW2 content (combat and dungeons) has gotten stale, now that people have learned to minmax it easily.”
The OP proposed that the solution to the problem is: bring back the traditional trinity.
I can’t disagree more: adding the traditional trinity wouldn’t solve any issues by itself, it would create all sorts of new ones, and it would remove one of the distinguish features of the game.
There are all sorts of other things that could be addressed to make the game more exciting for those bored with the status quo. Most of those have been mentioned already, but I continue to believe that the most important one is to make the AI smarter. Bosses need to dodge, avoid getting ‘fooled’ by line-of-sight tactics, focus on the weakest player, etc. In addition, they need to have defenses that make direct damage irrelevant (the only way to make conditions more relevant imo) and offensive abilities that discourage the current meta.
The good thing is: we’ve seen previews of all of this. Changed to defiance/stability, new AI, and so forth.
I am not going to predict whether this is going to solve all (or even the plurality) of issues we to which we can point. I am willing to say that I think it means that ANet is looking in the right direction. We know from past experience that sometimes their implementation is better than the hype …and sometimes it’s … not.
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring. Running nothing but zerk limits your builds way more than the holy trinity would. I find this frustrating. I don’t see why roles can’t be a thing in the game, even if it’s not holy trinity. Condi, bunker (not tank), control (things like fears). I don’t see why things like this can’t be built into the mechanics of a dungeon, instead of just “everyone has to do the exact same thing to survive the fight” which leads to people just wanting to run zerk to get it done faster. Maybe toss out optional bosses like Viscidus from Temple of Ahn’Qiraj in WoW. He required frost damage to beat him. One of the more unique bosses.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
(edited by Photonman.6241)
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring.
How exciting would the dungeons (let’s face it, that’s what we’re talking about) in any trinity game be if they were seeing continual play with no updates, no new rewards, no heroic modes or any other additions for 2.5 years, and no new dungeons on the horizon, either?
Another thought just occurred to me as I was reading some of the other responses to this thread: imagine the forum QQ that would spawn overnight as people demanded that healers and tanks get priority on full maps (ie at Teq time.)
“We keep failing because too many DPS and not enough tanks or heals can get on the map. There should be priority queuing for these needed roles for events. QQ.”
That would not happen if Anet would go with 1 of my 2 suggestions that I posted in this thread:
1) make every class capable of speccing to every role. That way everyone can become the tank or the healer.
2) make bosses like Teq instanced raids that you need to group up for either through your guild or through a LFR (Looking For Raid) tool.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
Are you sure we’re playing the same game? Because whenever I do a dungeon speedrun my group relies on combo fields a lot to get the job done.
But I guess in a LFG pug run you can’t expect players to utilize combo fields properly. Hell, most lvl 80 players in this game don’t even know how combo fields work! Maybe Anet should address combo fields in the upcoming NPE revamp? I think so.
How exciting would the dungeons (let’s face it, that’s what we’re talking about) in any trinity game be if they were seeing continual play with no updates, no new rewards, no heroic modes or any other additions for 2.5 years, and no new dungeons on the horizon, either?
I honestly really like the dungeons in this game, with the different paths and great rewards it offers a lot of replay-ability, but the combat is stale the first run, much less the 50th.
How exciting would the dungeons (let’s face it, that’s what we’re talking about) in any trinity game be if they were seeing continual play with no updates, no new rewards, no heroic modes or any other additions for 2.5 years, and no new dungeons on the horizon, either?
I honestly really like the dungeons in this game, with the different paths and great rewards it offers a lot of replay-ability, but the combat is stale the first run, much less the 50th.
Sorry but i have to disagree, if you’re running a dungeon for the first time casually without stack and los’ing mobs the combat is anything but stale, i still have vivid memories of my first AC run about 2 years ago with my guildies and the near 3~4 hours it tooks us to figure out the bosses and rooms and finish it. Hell, i was helping my gf with story dungeons and the SE golem bosses while youre fighting kudu(?) all require a different kind of stragety to beat, doing it with a bunch of new players was one of the most fun ive had with dungeons in a while.
I honestly just wish the AI on dungeons get fixed so that we can all finally move on from stacking and los’ing mobs and go back to actually being able to move around when fighting.
I feel like this is the most screwed thing with gw2 pve right now, you get this amazing action combat but the mobs AI ‘reward’ you for stacking in one spot where you can barely see whats going on, instead of being able to move around freely and make use of the action based combat we were given…
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring. Running nothing but zerk limits your builds way more than the holy trinity would. I find this frustrating. I don’t see why roles can’t be a thing in the game, even if it’s not holy trinity. Condi, bunker (not tank), control (things like fears). I don’t see why things like this can’t be built into the mechanics of a dungeon, instead of just “everyone has to do the exact same thing to survive the fight” which leads to people just wanting to run zerk to get it done faster. Maybe toss out optional bosses like Viscidus from Temple of Ahn’Qiraj in WoW. He required frost damage to beat him. One of the more unique bosses.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
Have you done fractals or Arah?
Stacking in a corner doesn’t solve things very well
Support is VERY strong in this game, arguably stronger than most trinity games. The fact that you can COMPLETELY negate bosses like Alphard with proper reflect rotations.
Control could use a little help, it’s effective but not enough for most PUGs to really learn to utilize it, I think the new defiant changes should help that hopefully as it will require less organization and just everyone being on the same page of “hit your CCs when he does X”.
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring. Running nothing but zerk limits your builds way more than the holy trinity would. I find this frustrating. I don’t see why roles can’t be a thing in the game, even if it’s not holy trinity. Condi, bunker (not tank), control (things like fears). I don’t see why things like this can’t be built into the mechanics of a dungeon, instead of just “everyone has to do the exact same thing to survive the fight” which leads to people just wanting to run zerk to get it done faster. Maybe toss out optional bosses like Viscidus from Temple of Ahn’Qiraj in WoW. He required frost damage to beat him. One of the more unique bosses.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
Actually running all zerk doesn’t limit your build at all. You can have loads upon loads of control and support skills as a zerker. And nobody is running the same thing in dungeons, there is synergy and variety, even the same player (if he is good) will have multiple weapons ready to use in different encounters. Can’t get more variety than that. I guess you haven’t seen a Thief with a D/D build, changing to D/P for the blind fields if it’s working for an encounter, or changing to S/P for pistol whip cleave, or a Guardian getting extra reflects for a projectile heavy encounter (shield of the avenger), or changing to focus for bosses with huge hit boxes etc etc. In most trinity games you make your build and roll with it for the entire dungeon, doing the SAME thing for the entire run. THAT’s boring, not the “zerk” that changes his build 14 times during a single Arah run.
What we don’t have is GEAR variety, the BUILD variety isn’t bad at all.
i hate holy trinity system and i love the uniq gw2 system.
with it gw2 will become like other “trinity” games, pick your role, pick best class in it and be sure to macro in time, much skill involved, gg.
No. Also to everyone who thinks that combat is stale, you can complete most dungeons using one single build, camping the same weapon (attunement if ele) that is true. But once you actually start swapping traits and utilities before going into the next encounter you will see how much more you can do if you think and not just roll your face on the keyboard.
Dungeons are not easy, some people just happen to know when to use the right skill. Try running dungeons without key “support” things like reflects, condition removal, aegis, blinds (not spammed blindly but at the right time).
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring. Running nothing but zerk limits your builds way more than the holy trinity would. I find this frustrating. I don’t see why roles can’t be a thing in the game, even if it’s not holy trinity. Condi, bunker (not tank), control (things like fears). I don’t see why things like this can’t be built into the mechanics of a dungeon, instead of just “everyone has to do the exact same thing to survive the fight” which leads to people just wanting to run zerk to get it done faster. Maybe toss out optional bosses like Viscidus from Temple of Ahn’Qiraj in WoW. He required frost damage to beat him. One of the more unique bosses.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
Have you done fractals or Arah?
Stacking in a corner doesn’t solve things very well
Support is VERY strong in this game, arguably stronger than most trinity games. The fact that you can COMPLETELY negate bosses like Alphard with proper reflect rotations.
Control could use a little help, it’s effective but not enough for most PUGs to really learn to utilize it, I think the new defiant changes should help that hopefully as it will require less organization and just everyone being on the same page of “hit your CCs when he does X”.
In fractals you really only need reflect skills on harpy one which 7 out 8 classes can do people seem to forget that they think its only guardian.
But still i don’t want holy trinity. Im going to stick with this until black desert comes.
In fractals you really only need reflect skills on harpy one which 7 out 8 classes can do people seem to forget that they think its only guardian.
So you are running the swamp, dredge, molten facility, molten duo, grawl, frozen, ascalon fractals without reflects? Well done.
I think its hilarious that almost universally people don’t what the holy trinity, and yet almost as universally people say the pve in this game is boring. Running nothing but zerk limits your builds way more than the holy trinity would. I find this frustrating. I don’t see why roles can’t be a thing in the game, even if it’s not holy trinity. Condi, bunker (not tank), control (things like fears). I don’t see why things like this can’t be built into the mechanics of a dungeon, instead of just “everyone has to do the exact same thing to survive the fight” which leads to people just wanting to run zerk to get it done faster. Maybe toss out optional bosses like Viscidus from Temple of Ahn’Qiraj in WoW. He required frost damage to beat him. One of the more unique bosses.
Edit: And combo fields! One of the most awesome feature in this game and almost no one uses it. kitten shame.
Have you done fractals or Arah?
Stacking in a corner doesn’t solve things very well
Support is VERY strong in this game, arguably stronger than most trinity games. The fact that you can COMPLETELY negate bosses like Alphard with proper reflect rotations.
Control could use a little help, it’s effective but not enough for most PUGs to really learn to utilize it, I think the new defiant changes should help that hopefully as it will require less organization and just everyone being on the same page of “hit your CCs when he does X”.
In fractals you really only need reflect skills on harpy one which 7 out 8 classes can do people seem to forget that they think its only guardian.
But still i don’t want holy trinity. Im going to stick with this until black desert comes.
Reflects are good to have on Swamp, Dredge, Snowblind and Volcanic fractal.
I don’t know if GW2 would be better off with the "holy trinity".
As for the people who are saying GW2 gives you "freedom to play how you want" and/or "[not] pigeonholed into specific role" is a bunch of horse manure. You ARE forced into a roll, and everyone has the SAME roll. Go zerk stats or get kicked. Stack in dungeons or get kicked.
I like that anet is trying new things, however they need to realize that as it stands there’s no build creativity or diversity [in PvE]. At least 90% of the PvE player base runs berserker’s and stacks at every opportunity.
I don’t know if GW2 would be better off with the “holy trinity”.
As for the people who are saying GW2 gives you “freedom to play how you want” and/or “[not] pigeonholed into specific role” is a bunch of horse manure. You ARE forced into a roll, and everyone has the SAME roll. Go zerk stats or get kicked. Stack in dungeons or get kicked.
I like that anet is trying new things, however they need to realize that as it stands there’s no build creativity or diversity [in PvE]. At least 90% of the PvE player base runs berserker’s and stacks at every opportunity.
And one again, berserker stats is not a role or a build, it’s just that, gear stats, and second, stacking isn’t used in dungeon (with some exceptions) by good groups after the FGS nerf.
So yes, you can play how you want and you are not pigeonholed into a specific role. Last I checked those “zerkers” Support and Control very very well.
So I don’t know what you are talking about.
There is no freedom in GW2. Only DPS builds are valid. So people who say the game is better off without holy trinity, GW2 has only one role: DPS.
I would play this game a lot more if it had trinity.
There is no freedom in GW2. Only DPS builds are valid. So people who say the game is better off without holy trinity, GW2 has only one role: DPS.
I would play this game a lot more if it had trinity.
I think you should look at the WvW environment to see what the GW2 system can be. It’s not all tank, it’s not all healing, it’s not all DPS. Instead, it’s a slowly shifting meta.
If the enemy AI was more like a real player you’d see more call for something other than pure DPS.
There is no freedom in GW2.
We are all slaves to the meta! It is impossible to run other builds!
(^ sarcasm)
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
There is no freedom in GW2. Only DPS builds are valid. So people who say the game is better off without holy trinity, GW2 has only one role: DPS.
I would play this game a lot more if it had trinity.
And one again, berserker stats is not a role or a build, it’s just that, gear stats, and second, stacking isn’t used in dungeon (with some exceptions) by good groups after the FGS nerf.
So yes, you can play how you want and you are not pigeonholed into a specific role. Last I checked those “zerkers” Support and Control very very well.
So I don’t know what you are talking about.
There is no freedom in GW2. Only DPS builds are valid. So people who say the game is better off without holy trinity, GW2 has only one role: DPS.
I would play this game a lot more if it had trinity.
Please read my responses earlier on in this thread but I’ll say it once again for the cheap seats – ANY BUILD IS VALID AND VIABLE! Not every build is optimal, Are the words optimal and viable something people have difficulty defining? I mean they’re pretty clear. One means one thing. One means another. Please look at these links -
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/optimal
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/viable
As you can see these two things evidently mean different things. There are a lot of viable builds in GW2 (and even more open up as you spread out from PvE into other game modes) so I do wish that people would stop with this whole “There’s only X build that’s viable” etc. If you dislike the meta or X build that’s not an issue. Make you’re own gorram build and play with that!
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
Make you’re own gorram build and play with that!
And if other groups don’t like your build, make your own gorram group!
You could even have fun with the LFG description:
3dps lf healz/tonk then gtg
which is almost as laughable as seeing it in WoW chat. :P
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
The only time I had fun as a healer was when I wiped a raid by playing Dancing Queen on my harp, as opposed to the healing spells I should’ve been. With the mentality of the zerk players and PvE zergfests, I can safely say that I’d hate to heal for these people, and tanks would just get yelled at for not doing any damage.
Pass. If I wanted to play WoW, I’d play WoW.
I don’t think we need a Holy Trinity but we do need some improvements to some other player Roles..
Healing power for example has been attacked constantly over the years..
some people want to play a healer support role in Gw2.. why not let them make one that’s actually more viable and worth while to play..
I don’t think we need a Holy Trinity but we do need some improvements to some other player Roles..
Healing power for example has been attacked constantly over the years..
some people want to play a healer support role in Gw2.. why not let them make one that’s actually more viable and worth while to play..
You can try this : you won’t fill all your mates’ bars as in other games but still they’ll feel the sustain you bring a lot!
Between heals you can also, as opposed to the traditional trinity make some damage, help stacking vulnerability and save your explosions for stacking might instead of heal.
This is far from optimal but still playable, one of my guild mate only plays her dungeon Ele that way…. Tbh between her ele and her full DPS ranger our completion time doesn’t change a lot (no numbers just a felling) on easy paths.