Guild Wars 2

Many many of the rewards for events, story steps, etc. are based largely on giving large XP chunks. This was fine for a while, but as we head into the new content a larger and larger segment of the player base is playing on full mastery, XP capped characters. Aside from the brief period where we are getting the newest episode mastery line (and just doing the new story content is enough to finish those), the XP bar is either somewhat meaningless (a few spirit shards are not a huge reward, though better than nothing) or completely meaningless (XP completely disabled for those who don’t want to or haven’t been able to Raid in all new maps). Therefore having huge chunks of XP as the main reward for things doesn’t just feel bad, it feels like being robbed.

ANet chose not to continue with the leveling system, but they have never actually acted like it with regards to XP rewards. There needs to be a shift away from XP and toward something new that is meaningful for capped players, or there needs to be a change in how it is handled for capped players, perhaps introducing reward tracks similar to PVP and WVW. The current system discourages players from doing events and/or funnels them into particular maps based on the current map bonus or special rewards (so they actually get something meaningful), leaving other maps empty.

I like my spirit shards.

Ayrilana.1396:

I like my spirit shards.

I’m not saying spirit shards aren’t nice if you need them. But a) many people don’t get spirit shards due to the raid mastery issue on any HOT or newer maps and b) just spirit shards aren’t that great for everyone, especially those who aren’t doing much mystic forging.

I can’t quite decide if I like this or not, the fact that I don’t gain XP any-longer means that I just don’t care about XP at all. So on one hand it feels a bit silly getting xp that I won’t be “getting”, but on the other-hand it made completely stop caring about doing most events and stuff, so saves me a lot of time, and lets me run for nodes instead. It certainly makes life faster/easier on maps.

Honestly think they could unlink the entire XP thing from masteries, and stick to just Mastery Points for Masteries. And move back to the XP levelig up separately and giving you something else(Heck, I even forgot what we used to get…. we used to get hero points a few years back right?).

I’m going to say a design decision that causes you to stop doing a large part of the game isn’t a great design decision.

I wouldn’t be opposed to some mastery tracks in PvE that were similar to reward tracks in PvP/WvW as long as they were balanced. You gotta remember than PvP/WvW got reward tracks because the game modes were less rewarding than PvE was, and the reward tracks are designed to partially make up for that. Which means that a similar track in PvE would either have to have ridiculous exp requirements or be pretty bland. So while I’m not necessarily opposed, I don’t think that they would be all that fun either.

I really hate to use the term “entitled” but it fits those who believe they should continue to get something once they’ve level/mastery capped their character. I’ve never played an MMO that did anything like that and while this game did until they rolled out the expansion (well eliminated just before) I saw it as a nice bonus but nothing that would keep me from playing if I wasn’t getting it.

To me this is declaring you’re never coming back to a restaurant because they stopped giving out little mints when you’re given the check.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I’m going to say a design decision that causes you to stop doing a large part of the game isn’t a great design decision.

I’m going to say a decision that causes a fan to stop playing a portion of the game because of the gating of a minor bonus hasn’t made a great decision.

If I wanted tons of shards, there are lots of efficient (and more enjoyable) methods of acquiring them besides grinding XP.

I’m not in favor of ANet requiring Raids to allow shard-generation in the new zones, but I also think it’s not the biggest deal in the world. They should fix it, but if they don’t, it’s not preventing anyone from accomplishing their goals.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I’m going to say a design decision that causes you to stop doing a large part of the game isn’t a great design decision.

I’m going to say a decision that causes a fan to stop playing a portion of the game because of the gating of a minor bonus hasn’t made a great decision.

If I wanted tons of shards, there are lots of efficient (and more enjoyable) methods of acquiring them besides grinding XP.

I’m not in favor of ANet requiring Raids to allow shard-generation in the new zones, but I also think it’s not the biggest deal in the world. They should fix it, but if they don’t, it’s not preventing anyone from accomplishing their goals.

I dont think anyone is grinding exp they just play normaly and see it go poof when before it gave spirit shards.

It never gave Spirit Shards. Never. Dinging a level used to award Skill Points, which could be exchanged with Miyani for Forge materials. Or, they just accumulated in the Hero Panel.

For several months, dinging a level gave absolutely nothing. No one seemed to care back then.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It never gave Spirit Shards. Never. Dinging a level used to award Skill Points, which could be exchanged with Miyani for Forge materials. Or, they just accumulated in the Hero Panel.

For several months, dinging a level gave absolutely nothing. No one seemed to care back then.

They did hence the backlash anet got when they switched the system and people got nothing spirit shards is the same skillpoints you used to get before

Leveling never awarded Spirit Shards before. And there was no ‘backlash’ until after HoT released, and people maxed Masteries. Many players did not even notice.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Leveling never awarded Spirit Shards before. And there was no ‘backlash’ until after HoT released, and people maxed Masteries. Many players did not even notice.

You are right I remember wrong they tried to balance it out with mob drops.

I think it’s a great idea: Reward tracks for post-cap experience instead of just spirit shards.

I also agree that mastery tracks should be their own thing, independent of experience reward tracks. In other words, you should not have to complete all of the mastery tracks before beginning on experience tracks. Instead, you should be able to work on them simultaneously.

I’m not sure what’s “entitled” about it. The only difference between a potential reward track and those that already exist is that they already exist. Are you “entitled” for thinking a reward track is a good thing? I don’t think so. But enjoy your mints, I guess?

It’s not about “entitlement”. I’m playing a game where what I get for my time are virtual rewards. Why would I play stuff that doesn’t give me rewards that are worth it? As an example, I was just doing events in HOT. The rewards for the non-meta events are, at least of those I was encountering, ~15000XP and ~50 Copper. No items, not even any karma. That means that, since I am capped and haven’t raided, my reward for doing non-meta events in HOT is… ~50 copper. Why would I bother doing them for such little rewards? The entire reward is based on me needing XP for masteries. Now that I don’t, it’s so worthless that I may as well run right past the event instead; I’ll probably get just as much coin and more of other items in the same time just fighting the random enemies on the map instead of doing the event.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

It’s not about “entitlement”. I’m playing a game where what I get for my time are virtual rewards. Why would I play stuff that doesn’t give me rewards that are worth it? As an example, I was just doing events in HOT. The rewards for the non-meta events are, at least of those I was encountering, ~1500XP and ~50 Copper. No items, not even any karma. That means that, since I am capped and haven’t raided, my reward for doing non-meta events in HOT is… ~50 copper. Why would I bother doing them for such little rewards? The entire reward is based on me needing XP for masteries. Now that I don’t, it’s so worthless that I may as well run right past the event instead; I’ll probably get just as much coin and more of other items in the same time just fighting the random enemies on the map instead of doing the event.

I don’t understand: 50 copper + 1500 xp is worth 110 copper. Are you saying that it’s not worth doing the event for 50 copper, but it is worth stopping for 110 copper?

(math: @1 gold/shard, 1500 xp / 254k xp = ~60 copper, not counting the time to convert one spirit shard to gold)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t understand: 50 copper + 1500 xp is worth 110 copper. Are you saying that it’s not worth doing the event for 50 copper, but it is worth stopping for 110 copper?

(math: @1 gold/shard, 1500 xp / 254k xp = ~60 copper, not counting the time to convert one spirit shard to gold)

Sorry typo (now fixed). ~15000XP. And my point is also that XP has much more value when applied to leveling than it does even with the spirit shard thing, but it also has no value at all with your XP bar completely disabled. As I said, spirit shards are better than nothing, but still not a great use of XP.

By the way, this doesn’t even mention the issue with event failure rewards. The runner-up prizes for many events, such as Gerent are COMPLETELY XP. Failing Chak Gerent gives you 30000XP and 5 leyline crystals. Is it any wander that no one even tries events they aren’t sure will succeed due to press of numbers?

Boogiepop Void.6473:

By the way, this doesn’t even mention the issue with event failure rewards. The runner-up prizes for many events, such as Gerent are COMPLETELY XP. Failing Chak Gerent gives you 30000XP and 5 leyline crystals. Is it any wander that no one even tries events they aren’t sure will succeed due to press of numbers?

The same can be said for any event in GW2 that has a chance to fail.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t understand: 50 copper + 1500 xp is worth 110 copper. Are you saying that it’s not worth doing the event for 50 copper, but it is worth stopping for 110 copper?

(math: @1 gold/shard, 1500 xp / 254k xp = ~60 copper, not counting the time to convert one spirit shard to gold)

Sorry typo (now fixed). ~15000XP. And my point is also that XP has much more value when applied to leveling than it does even with the spirit shard thing, but it also has no value at all with your XP bar completely disabled. As I said, spirit shards are better than nothing, but still not a great use of XP.

So you’d do an event for 600 extra copper, i.e. six silver, but you won’t do it without that ‘bonus’?

I understand that there’s a matter of principle involved, but it sounds like you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Let me put it another way: I agree that it would be better if XP granted after L80 offered something to everyone, that its weird that Raid masteries are required (despite ANet admitting that most people do not raid), and that spirit shards are a lukewarm reward.

I don’t, however, agree that this is a difference with a distinction: we never got good rewards from post-80 XP. Because they are easily farmed, I can’t imagine we ever will.

You’re welcome to keep letting this interfere with your enjoyment of the HoT and post-HoT maps. I play to keep on ignoring it, because it won’t make any difference in my gaming regardless of what they do.

Something that really does not help is that some of the rewards in the new maps give “a large amount of XP” immediately upon completion. If you consider that a large chunk (probably the majority) of players will not have maxed their masteries then that type of reward does seem a bit provocative. “Here. Have a big slice of stuff you can’t use”…

We essentially have 5 types of players:

1. New Players and those leveling alts – they don’t mind because they need XP and the system works for them
2. Players who have fully charged the XP on available Masteries but don’t have the MP to unlock the next one yet – Annoyed they can’t do something else with the XP while they work on MP
3. Players who have all Materies unlocked in Core Tyria but are still working on HOT – Avoid playing in Core Tyria since Spirit shards aren’t that great.
4. Players who are done with all Masteries but not raiding – Not thrilled with shards in Core Tyria but play major events for the other rewards and other modes (Fractals, PVP, WVW), avoid playing on HOT since they get almost no rewards due to locked XP bar
5. Players who have unlocked everything, including Raid Masteries – Not thrilled with Shards as a reward; tend to play only events that give large item rewards, need for collections/achieves, or play other content (fractals, PVP, WVW) that give non-Xp rewards.

The first 3 will always eventually become one of the last 2. The last 2 stop really exploring or wandering around maps, avoiding events when they do, in favor of doing major events that give non-XP rewards and playing other modes that likewise give non-XP rewards. This leaves much of the world unoccupied, with entire maps completely abandoned except by the 1st type of player other then a few of the other types showing up just to farm nodes or get specific items, achievements, or map completion keys.

You are missing several ‘types’ of players:

Those who aren’t annoyed. Those that don’t care about Spirit Shards (whether because they acquire plenty with out the Mastery Track, or have an abundance, anyway) and still do events for Map Rewards or any other reason. Those that still play in Core Tyria, even though they have finished Core Masteries (just because they enjoy the maps). Those that play in HoT maps for other rewards or enjoyment. And a plethora of other types. I’m sure I’m not the only player that does not fit one of the ‘5 types’.

I could not care less about XP, as I have thousands of Spirit Shards. Perhaps, if it was a different item at the end of the level-up bar, I might; but, it isn’t, so I don’t.

Good luck.

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

Djinn.9245:

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

It’s not essentially worthless, it’s actually worthless for people who are stuck behind the Raid lockout.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Djinn.9245:

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

It’s not essentially worthless, it’s actually worthless for people who are stuck behind the Raid lockout.

Several people keep explaining to you that it is, in practice, useless to them to earn spirit shards. I spend them as fast as my patience allows and I keep accumulating more. For example, for kicks, I unlocked all the antique skins from ascended gear (over 100 shards per weapon, depending on the stats you use normally and more if you make as many mistakes as I did) — I still have 1000s more than when I started the project.

Thus, getting spirit shards from XP is useless to me, as well as many others. Heck, some people have no use for the shards at all, since they don’t stat swap, work on legendaries, promote mats, etc.

Again, I understand that there’s a principle at stake here for you — and I even agree with that principle. I just can’t agree that it’s as important to the health of the game as you suggest it is. Non-raiders have been locked out of HoT-related XP bonuses for over a year; we can wait another year or longer.

Not only that, but if it’s really that big a deal to any individual, there are ways to unlock the raid mastery.

In short, yes, ANet should adjust things. However, let’s not exaggerate the relative importance of this issue compared to others that hurt the game. I’d much rather ANet figure out build templates than adjust XP rewards (not that the same people would work on those two projects — it’s just an example of things that might really matter).

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Djinn.9245:

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

It’s not essentially worthless, it’s actually worthless for people who are stuck behind the Raid lockout.

That’s not what bothers me, the fact I need MP’s is what’s keeping me from “progressing”. I don’t like chasing achievements. It’s not something I enjoy in games. The fact I have to to if I want to progress it just annoying to me. I don’t care really about XP, you get it from doing almost anything in game. So getting XP is not an issue, the issue is that MP’s are a hassle to get on the most part. If I het them while I’m playing great, if I’m going to have to grind out the same story step, or adventure(I really do not like adventures) just to progress then, the game has failed in its new direction of “progression”. They where supposed to be the new levelling. When I levelled from 2-80, I didn’t need to collect MP’s to finishing levelling. They where added to stop people blowing through the “levels” and to drag the content out. I really don’t care anymore about masteries. The Koda one was really pointless, and felt like it was added just for the sake of it.

I consider MPs in HoT and LWS3 easy MPs compared to what has to be done to earn them in core Tyria.

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

I would love to see them implement reward tracks in PvE

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

Fortunately there are 37 excess MP so players have a choice regarding whichs ones they go for. This excess number is increasing with each LS episode.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

I think the point of the MP’s was to get players to do various content on the expansion maps rather than just grind XP on a single map and not really touch the others. The majority of the MP’s are fairly reasonable to obtain.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Djinn.9245:

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

It’s not essentially worthless, it’s actually worthless for people who are stuck behind the Raid lockout.

Several people keep explaining to you that it is, in practice, useless to them to earn spirit shards.

All I said was that getting nothing is not a reward in liu of XP. Which is patently obvious.

I never said Spirit Shards are a wonderful reward in liu of XP for everyone. I don’t personally use them much. I think that Anet should either reward something more universally useful in liu of XP or make Spirit Shards good for a larger variety of items.

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete.

This is true. but what about players who join after this Living Story season ends?

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Djinn.9245:

Those who understand the psychology of games, understand that giving a player a reward that is essentially useless is a game killer. I expect that Anet will eventually get around to correcting this issue since I’m sure they’re aware that players who see a XP reward on their screen but are not actually receiving it may become disillusioned with the game.

It’s not essentially worthless, it’s actually worthless for people who are stuck behind the Raid lockout.

Several people keep explaining to you that it is, in practice, useless to them to earn spirit shards.

All I said was that getting nothing is not a reward in liu of XP. Which is patently obvious.

I never said Spirit Shards are a wonderful reward in liu of XP for everyone. I don’t personally use them much. I think that Anet should either reward something more universally useful in liu of XP or make Spirit Shards good for a larger variety of items.

And I’m saying that getting Spirit Shards is equivalent to getting nothing for many people. (Arguably: it’s worse — it it were nothing, there is a chance that ANet will change it; now that it’s spirit shards, it seems very unlikely that it will ever change.)

Regardless, it won’t kill the game, because (a) the game has other, more worrisome issues and (b) XP is amassed passively with everything we do. People dislike the fact that we used to get something (pre-HoT). Would this even be a topic if we had never gotten anything at launch?

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete.

This is true. but what about players who join after this Living Story season ends?

They can pay for it. Its possible to max all of the non LW related masteries without earning a single mastery point from the LS, just like in core tyria. But having access to LWS3 definitely makes it easier to do.

I think we can all agree that this is annoying and even ignoring the raid lock, spirit shards are not a good solution. ANet needs to accept and work with the population for whom XP is worthless, instead of pretending it does not exist.

I don’t find it annoying and gaining a level after reaching level 80 has always rewarded a spirit shard (or skill point) since launch with the exception being the time period when they switch to hero points and added the new mystic forge currency being gained upon leveling when masteries were maxed.

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

I think the point of the MP’s was to get players to do various content on the expansion maps rather than just grind XP on a single map and not really touch the others. The majority of the MP’s are fairly reasonable to obtain.

I’m sure they are, but I don’t want to play adventures, or chase achievements, yet if I want to “progress” I don’t have a choice. That’s my point, you might find it trivial, but having to do something I don’t want to just do I can finish a mastery. Meta events are what get people playing maps, not MP’s, they where put in to adventures so people would play them, its the only reason people play them, and that none have been added since.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this “Raid-lock” that stops me from at least getting spirit sharks ? (Not that I have an overly big use of them, but that would at least give xp some slight meaning again).

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

I think the point of the MP’s was to get players to do various content on the expansion maps rather than just grind XP on a single map and not really touch the others. The majority of the MP’s are fairly reasonable to obtain.

I’m sure they are, but I don’t want to play adventures, or chase achievements, yet if I want to “progress” I don’t have a choice. That’s my point, you might find it trivial, but having to do something I don’t want to just do I can finish a mastery. Meta events are what get people playing maps, not MP’s, they where put in to adventures so people would play them, its the only reason people play them, and that none have been added since.

It’s more than just getting players onto the maps. You are free to skip all mastery points from adventures as there are more than enough available mastery points to do so.

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

I think the point of the MP’s was to get players to do various content on the expansion maps rather than just grind XP on a single map and not really touch the others. The majority of the MP’s are fairly reasonable to obtain.

I’m sure they are, but I don’t want to play adventures, or chase achievements, yet if I want to “progress” I don’t have a choice. That’s my point, you might find it trivial, but having to do something I don’t want to just do I can finish a mastery. Meta events are what get people playing maps, not MP’s, they where put in to adventures so people would play them, its the only reason people play them, and that none have been added since.

It’s more than just getting players onto the maps. You are free to skip all mastery points from adventures as there are more than enough available mastery points to do so.

So your telling me, that I can walk around a map and channel MP’s and have enough to fill everything out, I don’t have to do achievements at all? I’m going to call lies on that. The adventure achievements are some of the “easy” options according to some. I’m not seeing your point here at all. MP are unnecessary.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Except of course for how hard it is to get into raids for those mastery lines.

We would all like something better than spirit shards. But at least they are better than nothing, when we can actually get them.

The first encounter in wing 3 is easy. Players that need the line just have to create their own LFG and specify what the purpose is in the description.

It’s certainly not a big obstacle to anyone committed to unlocking the mastery line. (I wouldn’t call it “easy” to people who aren’t among the target audience for raids.)

It’s just a higher end escort event that has some mechanics. As long as players can kill the warthogs, and pay attention to the land mines, they’ll be fine.

That’s all well and good, but you still have to grind out the MP’s to finish the tracks, that is not fun.

It has gotten easier and easier with every LWS3 release so far though….. The 3 releases have come with 18 new mastery points, and only require 7 to max the 3 new masteries they introduced. That is 11 extra mastery points you can achieve in these releases, and most of them are absolutely trivial to complete. You need 127 HoT mastery points to max every HoT mastery line. The 3 new releases in LWS3 have provided you with 18 of those, almost 10% of what you need, and almost all of them require 0 effort to achieve.

This argument is quite simply no longer valid. According to the Wiki there are 165 HoT mastery points available, of which you only need 127. Of those 165, only 0 are obtained through adventures (which is what most people complain about when they say MP are too hard to get), which leaves you with 8 extra Mastery Points available. Even if you don’t want to do Migraine mode on Hearts and Minds, or do skip up the volcano you can still max your mastery points without ever even touching an adventure.

I see you missed my post where I said I hate grinding out achievements just to “progress” on ANet answer to a higher level cap. They where added to stop people maxing them the first week of HoT and to drag out the content, we know there are players out there that would have done it, and at first it wasn’t too bad. But when the choice is, do achievements to “progress” and get nothing for the effort for the most part, or do events and not just be doing the same adventure or achievements over and over just to get it right that one time so you can “progress” I know I’m going to chose to spend my time having fun in the game, not make my game time miserable by banging my head against a wall having to do the same instance over and over just to get one MP. It’s a floored system, that should never have been. But that’s just what I think.

I think the point of the MP’s was to get players to do various content on the expansion maps rather than just grind XP on a single map and not really touch the others. The majority of the MP’s are fairly reasonable to obtain.

I’m sure they are, but I don’t want to play adventures, or chase achievements, yet if I want to “progress” I don’t have a choice. That’s my point, you might find it trivial, but having to do something I don’t want to just do I can finish a mastery. Meta events are what get people playing maps, not MP’s, they where put in to adventures so people would play them, its the only reason people play them, and that none have been added since.

It’s more than just getting players onto the maps. You are free to skip all mastery points from adventures as there are more than enough available mastery points to do so.

So your telling me, that I can walk around a map and channel MP’s and have enough to fill everything out, I don’t have to do achievements at all? I’m going to call lies on that. The adventure achievements are some of the “easy” options according to some. I’m not seeing your point here at all. MP are unnecessary.

That’s not what I said and you know it. It’s easy to call lies on something that you made up. There are 37 excess mastery points in Maguuma which is increasing with each LS episode. If there are specific ones that you don’t want to do, such as adventures, you have the flexibility to skip them.

[quote=6416766;Ayrilana.1396:]