Guild Wars 2

Sorry for the bad english….

Yes….Ascended gear effects every user playing Gw2……

I dont understand some users that are saying ascended gear doesnt change anything….it changes every aspect of the game~

In a gaming world even 0.0001 increase in gear increase makes a huge difference…
Especially when your opponent hav the same gaming skills ascended gear makes a huge difference.it makes a clear win or lose situaltion just by wearing ascended gear.

to add more…lets say 1 ascended gear players hits you…you get hit +5%more damage then the exotic gear player… not much? if you get hit by 5 ascended gear players wat happens now? you get hit total 25% more damage~ a huge huge difference

For example, If you hav been playing spvp their are lots of times when you dont die by a slite margin 200 health 300 heatlh. if the opponent was wearing a ascended gear you would hav been dead all ready..what im trying to say is .even a 0.5% increase in gear is very crucial in gw2.

What will happen next? Their will be Party Groups saying “Only Full Ascended gear only~!” Is this wat the majority gw2 users wants? i don’t think so…

For now ….Yes….you hav to get a ascended gear..its clear
Hope this changes in the next patch…Forcing every user to play fotm is not a good idea for the gw2 game and for the gw2 community.

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

Sorry I mean it is not in Spvp but I think it is 14% difference which is quite a lot and can make a huge difference for smaller battles or when zergs have near even numbers.

Killul.9685:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

It is Spvp only but I think it is 14% difference which is quite a lot and can make a huge difference for smaller battles or when zergs have near even numbers.

When do zergs ever have near even numbers, and how can you tell anyway?

No rhetorical questions by the way (I am honestly curious). I am a very casual player who gets her behind kicked when I so much as look at WvW, so I rarely bother with the stats-and-numbers-game.

Killul.9685:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

It is Spvp only but I think it is 14% difference which is quite a lot and can make a huge difference for smaller battles or when zergs have near even numbers.

No, SPvP has its own (free) gear. You cant use your normal gear there. Ascended has no effect on SPvP.

??% difference is huge assuming you have an entire set of ascended gear. Pieces such as Chest armor, Weapons, & pants armor gives the largest bonus.

Assuming you have full Ascended gear, it does give a considerable advantage in WvWvW, but not enough to consistently take on multiple foes.
Each player = about 100% increase

PS, i am against ascended and have never done FoTM.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Killul.9685:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

It is Spvp only but I think it is 14% difference which is quite a lot and can make a huge difference for smaller battles or when zergs have near even numbers.

When do zergs ever have near even numbers, and how can you tell anyway?

No rhetorical questions by the way (I am honestly curious). I am a very casual player who gets her behind kicked when I so much as look at WvW, so I rarely bother with the stats-and-numbers-game.

The zergs having even numbers doesn’t happen as often, but 1v1 battles and 1v2 battles happen pretty regularly. I run around looking for those whenever I do WvW and spend almost all of my time fighting. It really is a lot of fun.

The only time it would matter is in a 1 v 1 situation. Zerg vs Zerg it wouldn’t matter unless it was like 1 group of 50 with ascended and 1 group of 50 without, which is highly unlikely.

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Assuming you have full Ascended gear, it does give a considerable advantage in WvWvW, but not enough to consistently take on multiple foes.
Each player = about 100% increase

PS, i am against ascended and have never done FoTM.

You know what people say about “assume”, right? When that gear comes, the devs promised it won’t be locked in fotm.

@OP: If 5 people are hitting you, the 25% dmg more still isn’t any different from 5%. Because now you are taking 500% dmg due to the increase of attackers.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

The only time it would matter is in a 1 v 1 situation. Zerg vs Zerg it wouldn’t matter unless it was like 1 group of 50 with ascended and 1 group of 50 without, which is highly unlikely.

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

Unfortunately, they responded a bit too late. By the time Nov 15th rolled around, almost all of those posts had vanished with the people who made them. So the folks that were left, the ones who were happy with how things were, got the requested gear of people who didn’t even play the game anymore.

klesk.1790:

What will happen next? Their will be Party Groups saying “Only Full Ascended gear only~!”

So your saying that the worst thing that can happens is that some people will ask you to acquire these ascended gear… Just like they probably asked you before to have full exotic and level 80 character? And what if you will be able to acquire ascended gear through any aspect of the game? Like doing dynamic event where you don’t need a group?

Why extending progress appears so bad to some of the people? Diablo games get so popular because of their endless character progression. This is just fun!

Whole effect on the game through ascended gear is minor (Dungeons, WvW) or non existant (sPvP, Open World PvE). So why so negative?

There are also problems with your point of view. That is the one with no vertical progression. Because what if I don’t like any of the new armors? Like now… I’ve done like 100 times TA dungeon and just a few times any of the other dungeons because I liked only one of the dungeon armors. Is it ok to you?

As long as this game stays casul friendly, everything is ok to me. I’m afraid possibility of raids introduction a lot more then ascended gear. Because if they focus on that then this will probably mean that I will never see the most impressive parts of the game. Currently Ascended gear isn’t even close of having that effect to the game.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

The only time it would matter is in a 1 v 1 situation. Zerg vs Zerg it wouldn’t matter unless it was like 1 group of 50 with ascended and 1 group of 50 without, which is highly unlikely.

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

That was people was a miniority of players and those people wanted this game to be a copy of wow and they have either given up on the game or still claim it’s dead.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

Anet have stated Ascended gear was added because it was always intended to be in the game from the beginning, it was just late. In that sense it has a natural place in gear progress, but implemented in a delayed way.
I believe they have said they are also looking at ways of players being able to acquire ascended gear outside FotM, from other areas of the game inside and outside PvE.

FacesOfMu.3561:

I believe they have said they are also looking at ways of players being able to acquire ascended gear outside FotM, from other areas of the game inside and outside PvE.

I hope so, because I want a quiver, and I don’t want to do fractals to get one.

FoTM would be less of an issue if the stuff wasn’t account bound.

FacesOfMu.3561:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

Anet have stated Ascended gear was added because it was always intended to be in the game from the beginning, it was just late. In that sense it has a natural place in gear progress, but implemented in a delayed way.

Their consistent claiming (for many, many months before the game even shipped) that exotics are the top tier show us, that it isn’t really true. If they thought then that Ascended eq will be on launch, they would not have been hammering into us the idea that exotics are BiS always and forever.

I believe they have said they are also looking at ways of players being able to acquire ascended gear outside FotM, from other areas of the game inside and outside PvE.

It’s 2 months now, and they are still looking. Considering what they said about January update so far, they will be looking for at least another month as well. With that speed they will introduce other ways to get ascended eq just in time for that eq to become obsoleted by a new tier (or new level cap).

It take well over 2 months to add a vendor there is an issue. No ascend gear was hastily thrown in to appease a certain class of people who left the game anyways. It was a direct response to the qq on the forums about progression grind and advancement. They threw everything manifesto and all under the bus to appease this group. So in the end they lost both sets of players. Ever bit of marketing material was HP.
They have lost all credibility with me and I dont really believe anything they say until it is in the game.

As to the effect ya I feel I dont need armour at all so it doesnt effect me. who wants to run a dungeon? come on really now better stats are always better stats=more loot.
They put this out so fast and without thinking the consequences have been horrific on the game and player population.
I doubt we will see a vendor or anything else but the next set of gear in the new dungeon next month.
My hope is maybe they actually stop and think about what the ramifications of the actions are before the go ahead and insert it into a live game. And Yes please test for bugs as well.

klesk.1790:

What will happen next? Their will be Party Groups saying “Only Full Ascended gear only~!” Is this wat the majority gw2 users wants? i don’t think so…

For now ….Yes….you hav to get a ascended gear..its clear
Hope this changes in the next patch…Forcing every user to play fotm is not a good idea for the gw2 game and for the gw2 community.

I feel that this is a valid concern, as there are already people who won’t run even Fractals lvl 1 without a full party of 80’s. However, this isn’t news either. It’s a dead horse we are beating until something new happens.

I like FoTM and I think it’s good they implemented this gear. Like somebody said before me though it should have been here since the beginning of the game, which Anet admitted.

Almost everybody was complaining how there was no end-game. You get to 80, grab your exotics from a couple days of dungeon running or whatever, then boom you have nothing to do. People wanted something to challenge them and something to work for.

Anet implements ascendedgear/fotm which does exactly that and then everybody starts kittening about how they have to get new gear and work for something.

If you enjoy FoTM and want the gear then do it. If you don’t then don’t do it. It’s not going to hurt you in WvW as long as there are under 80s there, which there always will be. I have not seen a single dungeon LFG that says “Must be full exotic” so you’re not going to see “must be full ascended”. The only thing you’ll see is “Must have +X AR%” due to high level FoTM

FacesOfMu.3561:

Anet have stated Ascended gear was added because it was always intended to be in the game from the beginning, it was just late. In that sense it has a natural place in gear progress, but implemented in a delayed way.

They never said that. What they said was that in retrospect they should have had it in before the game went live.

In the context of the rest of the game, it has no “natural place in gear progress”; it is clearly an aberration that was thrown in to pacify players that require endless power progression. Every indication before was that there was a hard cap as far as gear was concerned represented by exotics.

klesk.1790:

In a gaming world even 0.0001 increase in gear increase makes a huge difference…

That’s 0.01%…at 20,000 health, that’s 2 health. At 2000 damage, that’s 0.2 damage. That doesn’t matter at all.

But let’s assume for a moment that it’s 1% difference. That would be 200 health and 20 damage. Sounds like a big deal, but consider this: how often do you fight someone where you both go down at the same time? Because that is the only time where the 200 extra health would have saved you.

Ethics.4519:

I like FoTM and I think it’s good they implemented this gear. Like somebody said before me though it should have been here since the beginning of the game, which Anet admitted.

Almost everybody was complaining how there was no end-game. You get to 80, grab your exotics from a couple days of dungeon running or whatever, then boom you have nothing to do. People wanted something to challenge them and something to work for.

Anet implements ascendedgear/fotm which does exactly that and then everybody starts kittening about how they have to get new gear and work for something.

If you enjoy FoTM and want the gear then do it. If you don’t then don’t do it. It’s not going to hurt you in WvW as long as there are under 80s there, which there always will be. I have not seen a single dungeon LFG that says “Must be full exotic” so you’re not going to see “must be full ascended”. The only thing you’ll see is “Must have +X AR%” due to high level FoTM

Except that the deeper levels of the fractals, you cannot survive without the ascended gear. So yes, you see LFG’s for “must be full ascended”.

BTW, the game was marketed as not having an end-game that was different from the rest of the game . The game was marketed as “not having to grind to increase power”; saying that, well, you don’t have to if you don’t want to obscures the intent of the claim in the first place. You don’t have to grind for increased power/gear in any game. The intent of that marketing was clearly to distinguish GW2 from other games where, to have the most powerful gear, you had to grind.

In order to have the most powerful gear in GW2, you have to grind. Period. Promise to change that are just that – promises. People are reasonably upset over being misled about something that was an important part of their decision to play GW2 in the first palce.

Before FoTM, my time in-game was about 50-60 hrs a week and I spent @$10/week in the shop. After FoTM, my time in-game is about 10-15 hrs a week, I haven’t spent another dime in the shop, and I’m actively looking for some other game to play.

FacesOfMu.3561:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Ascended gear was added because people asked for it. Before the lost shores update the forums were filled with nothing but “I’m at endgame with full exotics which were too easy to get, and now I’m bored, I have nothing to go for but a legendary.” and anet responded.

Anet have stated Ascended gear was added because it was always intended to be in the game from the beginning, it was just late. In that sense it has a natural place in gear progress, but implemented in a delayed way.
I believe they have said they are also looking at ways of players being able to acquire ascended gear outside FotM, from other areas of the game inside and outside PvE.

And you believe that? It is quite obvious if you look at anything that Exotic level was the max tier the game was designed for.

PvP gear is exotic level, Ranger pets have fixed stats based around exotic level players. The leveling down system can only just about deal with exotic but won’t be able to for Ascended. Why is there a whole runes/orbs/crests upgrade system that works with all gear up until ascended where they just cast it aside and all those things become useless?

And if it was to be implement from the beginning why have we had 2 months now of the overworld being bare and everybody crammed into FoTM grinding out these things, exactly what this game was supposed to avoid.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Is there ascended gear in sPVP? I thought it was PvE/WvW only.

Personally, I don’t feel like I “need” to get ascended – only if I want to do a lot of fractals (which I don’t). For Pve, exotics are still good enough and no one notices a 1% increase in stats in the WvW zergs.

Just wait, we already have people denying others from grouping on the basis of nerfs to a class (engineer) if this continues and ascended isn’t properly addressed you’ll see people denying others because they don’t have ascended gear on when doing other dungeons including those they come out with after Fractals that might not have the agony effect.

I was part of the group that warned people that people would disappear from the world once Fractals became the only method of gaining loot. Sure enough….

ThiBash.5634:

klesk.1790:

In a gaming world even 0.0001 increase in gear increase makes a huge difference…

That’s 0.01%…at 20,000 health, that’s 2 health. At 2000 damage, that’s 0.2 damage. That doesn’t matter at all.

But let’s assume for a moment that it’s 1% difference. That would be 200 health and 20 damage. Sounds like a big deal, but consider this: how often do you fight someone where you both go down at the same time? Because that is the only time where the 200 extra health would have saved you.

The problem is that the primary reason a lot of people bought into GW2 was because they believed they would be able to max out the power of a character, over time, without grinding, and not have to re-max those same characters later every few months. How small the difference between their character and a max character is simply isn’t relevant to the fact that many of us now have no hope of ever maxing out a character.

The effect is largely psychological, not mathematical. Many of us don’t play games because of how the math adds up, but rather whether or not the game offers us the enjoyment we are seeking – whether or not the game serves our playstyle and satisfies our goals.

After FoTM, for many of us, GW2 can no longer satisfy our desired goals via our playstyle. If my goal is to have maxed out characters via my casual playstyle, it doesn’t matter if the difference between what I’m capable of getting and what is possible for others to get is 1% or 20%; I cannot achieve a maxed out character.

I could achieve it before FoTM; I cannot achieve it after. 1% short of max is still short of max.

The issue isn’t the Ascended tier. The underlying issue is that there is no guarantee that there will not be another tier after it. That would have to be an option that is on the table.

Secondly, they have essentially made it so that the ONLY way to attain the best tier gear is from a portal in lion’s arch…slowly causing people to either migrate to LA or leave (albeit, temporarily if they correct themselves). They admitted to needing more sources for ascended gear…open world PvE, crafting, WvW, and dungeons all need methods of attaining it in order to get people out there again.

Lastly, they need an alternate method of dampening agony and other future similar mechanics. The most obvious one would be through Title Tiers much like GW1…with every new title tier reached, more resistance could be added to the player. This adds the needed vertical progression AND has NO EFFECT ON THE REST OF THE GAME. It REALLY upsets me…because the solution was already in GW1.

Yes, GW1 had vertical progression…but it wasn’t based on gear. It was based on titles. It should NEVER be based on gear.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

The problem is that the primary reason a lot of people bought into GW2 was because they believed they would be able to max out the power of a character, over time, without grinding, and not have to re-max those same characters later every few months. How small the difference between their character and a max character is simply isn’t relevant to the fact that many of us now have no hope of ever maxing out a character.

Getting those rings isn’t “Harder” or more grindy than getting any other piece of exotic gear. In fact you can get those rings faster than you ever got your exotic items, unless you grind for money and bought them the instant you hit 80. But that would take a lot more grinding than getting the rings.

The effect is largely psychological, not mathematical. Many of us don’t play games because of how the math adds up, but rather whether or not the game offers us the enjoyment we are seeking – whether or not the game serves our playstyle and satisfies our goals.

I don’t understand this, if you like the gameplay, the mechanics, lore whatever why is gear affecting your “enjoyment”?

After FoTM, for many of us, GW2 can no longer satisfy our desired goals via our playstyle. If my goal is to have maxed out characters via my casual playstyle, it doesn’t matter if the difference between what I’m capable of getting and what is possible for others to get is 1% or 20%; I cannot achieve a maxed out character.

And why is that? If getting your full exotics took an X amount of time, getting your current Ascended items requires X/10000 time. If your casual playstyle allowed you to get your exotic you can certainly get the rings as well in a fraction of the time.

I could achieve it before FoTM; I cannot achieve it after. 1% short of max is still short of max.

That’s why they are adding Ascended gear rewards everywhere.

Vorch.2985:

The issue isn’t the Ascended tier. The underlying issue is that there is no guarantee that there will not be another tier after it. That would have to be an option that is on the table.

Since Ascended was to be included in the main game at release, it’s safe to assume they won’t add another tier.

Secondly, they have essentially made it so that the ONLY way to attain the best tier gear is from a portal in lion’s arch…slowly causing people to either migrate to LA or leave (albeit, temporarily if they correct themselves). They admitted to needing more sources for ascended gear…open world PvE, crafting, WvW, and dungeons all need methods of attaining it in order to get people out there again.

They already said they are going to add Ascended gear everywhere else… maybe starting in February patch?

maddoctor.2738:

Getting those rings isn’t “Harder” or more grindy than getting any other piece of exotic gear. In fact you can get those rings faster than you ever got your exotic items, unless you grind for money and bought them the instant you hit 80. But that would take a lot more grinding than getting the rings.

Grinding = “doing something you don’t want, over and over, to get something you do want”. I don’t enjoy dungeons whatsoever. I’ve never done a dungeon. When I play the game, I do things I enjoy. Doing what I enjoy in the game naturally builds up karma and cash. That is what I use to buy exotics. Can I use karma or cash to acquire agony gear?

I don’t understand this, if you like the gameplay, the mechanics, lore whatever why is gear affecting your “enjoyment”?

It affects my enjoyment because a necessary part of my enjoyment is the knowledge that I can, over time, as a casual player, achieve maxed out characters. Whether or not you understand it is irrelevant.

And why is that? If getting your full exotics took an X amount of time, getting your current Ascended items requires X/10000 time. If your casual playstyle allowed you to get your exotic you can certainly get the rings as well in a fraction of the time.

Not if I don’t do groups/dungeons, which I do not. Furthermore, ANET has said that powercreep is a part of the game now. Before power creep, I had the opportunity to – over time, perhaps over the course of a year or two – to max out a character or two via my casual playstyle. With ongoing power creep, I will never have a max character – ever.

That’s why they are adding Ascended gear rewards everywhere.

Promises are just that – promises. That is not the state of the game as it is. Also, the very point of ascended gear in the first place was to give hardcore gear-grind players (“most dedicated players”, as ANET said) a tangible increase in power to reward their hardcore, gear-grind efforts.

If not, then there was no reason to insert more powerful gear into a system that already offered cosmetic rewards. Thus, the power-creep system of providing tangible increases in power to reward hardcore (“most dedicated”) players necessitates that any other forms of acquisition of such rewards must be (1) reserved for the “most dedicated” players, or (2) be instantiated for casual consumption only after another power creep rung has been added for the “most dedicated” players, which only they can consume .

This is what you don’t get: the philosophy behind why they inserted Ascended gear in the first place (by their own word) necessarily means that I – a casual player – must always be regulated to 2nd best or 3rd best gear, or else what they are offering their “most dedicated” players cannot achieve the purpose it is intended to serve – giving hardcore players something tangible to reward their playstyle.

klesk.1790:

to add more…lets say 1 ascended gear players hits you…you get hit +5%more damage then the exotic gear player… not much? if you get hit by 5 ascended gear players wat happens now? you get hit total 25% more damage~ a huge huge difference

funny argument because if 5 people hit you, you are probably dead.

If 5 people with 100 dmg hit you, you get hit with 500 dmg.

If 5 people with 5% more dmg hit you that is 525 dmg. 25% of 500 is still 5%. so no you are still getting hit 5% more dmg.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Grinding = “doing something you don’t want, over and over, to get something you do want”. I don’t enjoy dungeons whatsoever. I’ve never done a dungeon. When I play the game, I do things I enjoy. Doing what I enjoy in the game naturally builds up karma and cash. That is what I use to buy exotics. Can I use karma or cash to acquire agony gear?

Promises are just that – promises. That is not the state of the game as it is. Also, the very point of ascended gear in the first place was to give hardcore gear-grind players (“most dedicated players”, as ANET said) a tangible increase in power to reward their hardcore, gear-grind efforts.

I have a 2 level 80s full exotic with 1 ascended ring each, I don’t consider myself a grinder, actually since Fotm gets a bit different as you get higher I never did the exact same thing a thousand times. You don’t like doing dungeons, fine, that’s why they will give the option to get Ascended gear from other parts of the game, that you or anyone else likes. If that “other way” is as grindy as getting the rings (which is 1/10th of the grind required to get get exotics) then there shouldn’t be any problem, should there?

It affects my enjoyment because a necessary part of my enjoyment is the knowledge that I can, over time, as a casual player, achieve maxed out characters. Whether or not you understand it is irrelevant.

So your issue as a casual is that you don’t want to group up to do Fractals to get the max gear. Wait for Ascended to be available elsewhere and then we can discuss this again, they already admitted it was a big failure offering Ascended only in Fractals and that they are going to change this. Hopefully the January small-update will pave the way.

This is what you don’t get: the philosophy behind why they inserted Ascended gear in the first place (by their own word) necessarily means that I – a casual player – must always be regulated to 2nd best or 3rd best gear, or else what they are offering their “most dedicated” players cannot achieve the purpose it is intended to serve – giving hardcore players something tangible to reward their playstyle.

Wait and see?

It’s funny, there are now four threads on the front page about the same thing, all phrased slightly differently, but about the same thing. The problem with discussing the issue from the first tier of gear is that you have people trying to minimize the problem based upon a relatively small difference in stats. The problem, as each thread ultimately gets to is vertical progression. We are not talking about a small difference in stats, we are talking about a process that leads to a large difference in stats over time. Vertical progression progresses by periodically raising the power level of players. It makes no sense whatsoever to argue about the first three pieces of a new, more powerful tier of gear.

The devs said we would have vertical progression in the game moving forward. Consider the words that make up the element of game design. Vertical: the power level increases. Progression: it continually increases over time. They said the power curve would be low. I suppose when you have a gear grind you can have a slow grind, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a gear grind treadmill.

In one of the other threads a person posted a video that details why vertical progression really needs to see the door in gaming. Or, at least there needs to be alternatives for players of games. GW2 was to be that alternative but I sense the devs got spooked for some reason by players who bought a football and now want to play baseball with it. Here’s the video link:

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/19/why-games-should-scale-horizontally-instead-of-vertically/

maddoctor.2738:

Wait and see?

I prefer observe and advocate over wait and see. They have said why they introduced Ascended gear; if that is true, then that reason directly implies that I will never have a maxed out character, even if I play this game for 10 years, unless their game philosophy reverts back to what they marketed it as.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

The problem is that the primary reason a lot of people bought into GW2 was because they believed they would be able to max out the power of a character, over time, without grinding, and not have to re-max those same characters later every few months. How small the difference between their character and a max character is simply isn’t relevant to the fact that many of us now have no hope of ever maxing out a character.

Oh, I totally agree. If they’d remove it tomorrow I’d be happy today. But what the OP said, was overreacting.

The thing is, in Guild Wars 1, many if not most people would go for a golden lettered item instead of a purple lettered one, simply because it was ‘rarer’. Even though it never showed anywhere but your own inventory screen. So I still don’t get why Anet would increase the stats, when they know their fanbase would have been happy if they changed the color of the letters only…

I’d like to think that player skill rules over 0.5% extra damage in this game. You have to remember that Guild Wars 2 is an active game. You are much more likely to get defeated because you used up your dodge at the wrong time, or your healing skill got interrupted. The chance of two players fighting against each other 1v1, with one having ascendent gear and the other only having exotic gear, while they both have the same amount of player skill, and both aren’t making any mistakes, leaving only the gear making the difference, is so miniscule that it’s not worth counting. And in a zerg situation, it’s just a ridiculous thing to worry about, as even more variables comes into play there.

Kasama.8941:

And in a zerg situation, it’s just a ridiculous thing to worry about, as even more variables comes into play there.

May I offer a scenario that makes the zerg situation no longer ridiculous to worry about? Guild X gets their ascended gear. Guild X is now Y% individually and Z% collectively stronger than they were before. Guild X now is laying siege to a tower/keep in WvW. With their enhanced stats, siege weapons are no longer taking them down as effectively [and their teammates are also more likely to be able to revive] and the ascended tier guild ‘zerg’ captures the tower due to decreased defensive capabilities.

Do they make siege weapons stronger to compensate? That now decimates all non-ascended players more than before, and would also increase the speed of point captures.

The dynamic changes regardless. Either power creep sets in universally, or unilaterally.

Anchorwind.9016:

May I offer a scenario that makes the zerg situation no longer ridiculous to worry about? Guild X gets their ascended gear. Guild X is now Y% individually and Z% collectively stronger than they were before. Guild X now is laying siege to a tower/keep in WvW. With their enhanced stats, siege weapons are no longer taking them down as effectively [and their teammates are also more likely to be able to revive] and the ascended tier guild ‘zerg’ captures the tower due to decreased defensive capabilities.

Do they make siege weapons stronger to compensate? That now decimates all non-ascended players more than before, and would also increase the speed of point captures.

The dynamic changes regardless. Either power creep sets in universally, or unilaterally.

You make it sound like all the players in the X guild would work like a single unite, and be invincible due to them somehow sharing their minor stat increase. The same thing would apply to the group of players, as it does in the 1v1 scenario I explained. The only difference would be that there are more players, which only adds to the random factor of combat. The amount of damage that siege weapons deal, far exceeds the ascendent gear extra stats, and would affect the single player just like it does the player without ascendent gear. He/she would move, or be defeated. Ascendent gear doesn’t make you invincible. Neither does it make you revive faster.

What exactly is it you think is going to change in the few extra seconds (if even that) that a group of players with ascendent gear manage to take down a gate faster? It doesn’t really matter if the defenders stops them (as in managing to chase them away) with the door open or closed, as the 1% extra repair is not even worth counting. And the short time it takes for a group with ascendent gear to kill a lord faster, is not going to make a difference. Because the times that you are able to save a lord at 1% health is nonexistent. Mostly because the defenders have long given up the tower/keep at that point. If a group of players manage to take down a lord that much, they are going to succeed regardless of ascendent gear.

The dynamic changes, but not at a level that makes it worth taking into account. Mostly because of the random variables of combat, like player skill, builds, coordination/teamwork, and luck.

Do you use food buffs?
Do you use wrench buffs?
Do you stack stacking sigils , then wield a weapon with different ones in actual wvw combat?
Do you buy stat karma boosts from wayfarer foothills?
If the answer to at least one of these question is NO,
you can’t grumble about ascended gear because you denied yourself amount of power (not as in stat but as in overall character strength) 10-20 times bigger (or the same as difference between exotic and ascended ring, in karma buffs case) than a difference between exotic and ascended currently gear pieces.
If the answer to all is NO(which is presumable),
Then you are ridiculous for complaining about ascended gear. After all, you willingfully
gave up on enormous buffs(250+ to chosen stat which requires you to kill a dozen of monsters before doing real wvw objectives; mere silvers for amazing wrench and food buffs, just to say 100 precision, 100 power, 10% critical damage from wrench and food for example. Or godlike lifesteal from omnomberry ghosts… Oh, and karma buffs that come for… 21/28 karma each… And alltogether(theres 4 karma buffs) give the same bonus as ascended ring over exotic would give… yeah..)
I’m talking about 20-30% of character strength here, and yet you who do not use those complain about 1% current power increase from ascended and 6-7% in the future..
Also, do you carry all weapons available to your class in your inventory?
After all, as a warrior I keep everything I can(almost whole 20 slot bag of exotic weaponry, 4 axes(2 for stacking, 2 for combat), shield, 2 swords, longbow, rifle, GS, hammer, 2 maces, warhorn).
Because there is no reason to grumble how you do not have a longbow when you need to defend your tower from superior force of enemies, no reason to be a snail when you can equip sword+warhorn/GS and be the fastest character there is(tried with friends, I got ahead of air run specced ele with daggers of course and on par with shadowstep thief who shadowstepped like every 3-4 seconds -_-), and of course et cetera.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Except that the deeper levels of the fractals, you cannot survive without the ascended gear. So yes, you see LFG’s for “must be full ascended”.

I stopped reading after this because it’s wrong. There’s no way to be full ascended right now, so like I said, no, you haven’t seen that. You will most likely see “Must have +X% AR” because you’ll be insta-killed at higher levels. I think that’s completely justifiable though.

If you’re looking for reasons to stop reading, you’re not really interested in meaningful debate. I mean’t "you’ll see LFG’s for “must be full ascended”, because ANET has flat stated you cannot survive those levels without Ascended.

Evalia.7103:

…

Really good point dude! Pursuing more powerful gear is fun! And there is no real reason to resign from this. I’m also fun of original gw but the lack of progression was the worst aspect of that game for me.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

If you’re looking for reasons to stop reading, you’re not really interested in meaningful debate. I mean’t "you’ll see LFG’s for “must be full ascended”, because ANET has flat stated you cannot survive those levels without Ascended.

That point doesn’t clarify anything as my post has already replied to that comment. I wasn’t looking for a reason to stop reading, you decided to give me one.

Raine.1394:

It’s funny, there are now four threads on the front page about the same thing, all phrased slightly differently, but about the same thing. The problem with discussing the issue from the first tier of gear is that you have people trying to minimize the problem based upon a relatively small difference in stats. The problem, as each thread ultimately gets to is vertical progression. We are not talking about a small difference in stats, we are talking about a process that leads to a large difference in stats over time. Vertical progression progresses by periodically raising the power level of players. It makes no sense whatsoever to argue about the first three pieces of a new, more powerful tier of gear.

The devs said we would have vertical progression in the game moving forward. Consider the words that make up the element of game design. Vertical: the power level increases. Progression: it continually increases over time. They said the power curve would be low. I suppose when you have a gear grind you can have a slow grind, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a gear grind treadmill.

In one of the other threads a person posted a video that details why vertical progression really needs to see the door in gaming. Or, at least there needs to be alternatives for players of games. GW2 was to be that alternative but I sense the devs got spooked for some reason by players who bought a football and now want to play baseball with it. Here’s the video link:

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/19/why-games-should-scale-horizontally-instead-of-vertically/

This. Plus some of what Wintyre has posted.

In my case, GW2 had fun PvE that allowed me to quickly get to max level where I bought a bunch of karma yellows and started to WvW while I worked on exotics. To me, WvW and sPVP was the end-game and from what the devs had said plus the way GW worked, seemed like a nice place to PvP/WvW without worrying about progression every month.

As soon as Ascended gear showed up I pretty much lost most of my interest. I have chased carrots more than enough in past MMOs to know that, fun for awhile but ultimately it just makes for horrible PvP and very boring or annoying PvE. It ruins PvP because you end up with huge gear gaps between new players and old players, which leads to dwindling numbers and eventually empty servers. That could take a long time for GW2 and the gear gap is small atm, but it has already started, which is really sad.

Its a very good game that I’ll probably pop into but the choices by the devs since launch are taking the game in a direction I really dislike.

Evalia.7103:

Do you use food buffs?
Do you use wrench buffs?
Do you stack stacking sigils , then wield a weapon with different ones in actual wvw combat?
Do you buy stat karma boosts from wayfarer foothills?
If the answer to at least one of these question is NO,
you can’t grumble about ascended gear because you denied yourself amount of power (not as in stat but as in overall character strength) 10-20 times bigger (or the same as difference between exotic and ascended ring, in karma buffs case) than a difference between exotic and ascended currently gear pieces.
If the answer to all is NO(which is presumable),
Then you are ridiculous for complaining about ascended gear. After all, you willingfully
gave up on enormous buffs(250+ to chosen stat which requires you to kill a dozen of monsters before doing real wvw objectives; mere silvers for amazing wrench and food buffs, just to say 100 precision, 100 power, 10% critical damage from wrench and food for example. Or godlike lifesteal from omnomberry ghosts… Oh, and karma buffs that come for… 21/28 karma each… And alltogether(theres 4 karma buffs) give the same bonus as ascended ring over exotic would give… yeah..)
I’m talking about 20-30% of character strength here, and yet you who do not use those complain about 1% current power increase from ascended and 6-7% in the future..
Also, do you carry all weapons available to your class in your inventory?
After all, as a warrior I keep everything I can(almost whole 20 slot bag of exotic weaponry, 4 axes(2 for stacking, 2 for combat), shield, 2 swords, longbow, rifle, GS, hammer, 2 maces, warhorn).
Because there is no reason to grumble how you do not have a longbow when you need to defend your tower from superior force of enemies, no reason to be a snail when you can equip sword+warhorn/GS and be the fastest character there is(tried with friends, I got ahead of air run specced ele with daggers of course and on par with shadowstep thief who shadowstepped like every 3-4 seconds -_-), and of course et cetera.

The point is that those buffs you speak of are freely available in the game for all, no obligatory content required, if you don’t see the difference then I really can’t help you.

@ Raine: I agree with everything you said- and you said it much better than I could ever have

BrockMcCleery.9562:

Raine.1394:

It’s funny, there are now four threads on the front page about the same thing, all phrased slightly differently, but about the same thing. The problem with discussing the issue from the first tier of gear is that you have people trying to minimize the problem based upon a relatively small difference in stats. The problem, as each thread ultimately gets to is vertical progression. We are not talking about a small difference in stats, we are talking about a process that leads to a large difference in stats over time. Vertical progression progresses by periodically raising the power level of players. It makes no sense whatsoever to argue about the first three pieces of a new, more powerful tier of gear.

The devs said we would have vertical progression in the game moving forward. Consider the words that make up the element of game design. Vertical: the power level increases. Progression: it continually increases over time. They said the power curve would be low. I suppose when you have a gear grind you can have a slow grind, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a gear grind treadmill.

In one of the other threads a person posted a video that details why vertical progression really needs to see the door in gaming. Or, at least there needs to be alternatives for players of games. GW2 was to be that alternative but I sense the devs got spooked for some reason by players who bought a football and now want to play baseball with it. Here’s the video link:

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/19/why-games-should-scale-horizontally-instead-of-vertically/

This. Plus some of what Wintyre has posted.

In my case, GW2 had fun PvE that allowed me to quickly get to max level where I bought a bunch of karma yellows and started to WvW while I worked on exotics. To me, WvW and sPVP was the end-game and from what the devs had said plus the way GW worked, seemed like a nice place to PvP/WvW without worrying about progression every month.

As soon as Ascended gear showed up I pretty much lost most of my interest. I have chased carrots more than enough in past MMOs to know that, fun for awhile but ultimately it just makes for horrible PvP and very boring or annoying PvE. It ruins PvP because you end up with huge gear gaps between new players and old players, which leads to dwindling numbers and eventually empty servers. That could take a long time for GW2 and the gear gap is small atm, but it has already started, which is really sad.

Its a very good game that I’ll probably pop into but the choices by the devs since launch are taking the game in a direction I really dislike.

Agree with both posts. Very well said. I constantly find myself doing things I don’t want to do, such as run CoF a million times, just to get the armor and weapons I need in order to stay on an even playing field with my peers. What upsets me the most though is all of the people crying for Vertical Progression never game a kitten about Guild Wars, never played the original, and never wanted or cared for Guild Wars 2. They are looking for WoW 2 and while they were off playing WoW I was playing Guild Wars. I stuck with Guild Wars and used to have so much faith in the developer team. Now however, I am questioning my brand loyalty.

klesk.1790:

to add more…lets say 1 ascended gear players hits you…you get hit +5%more damage then the exotic gear player… not much? if you get hit by 5 ascended gear players wat happens now? you get hit total 25% more damage~ a huge huge difference

Frist of all, you wouldn’t take 5% more damage.
And lets say you now would take 5% damage, if 5 players hit you it wouldn’t be 25% more damage. It would still be 5% more damage than you would take in normal case.

I understand you, it’s very easy to just think it works that way but it really doesn’t.
I can show you how it works.

If a player would deal 1000dmg on you with exotics and then 5% more with ascended, that would be 1050 damage.
So if five people attacked you it would be 1050×5=5250 instead of 1000×5=5000.
And 5250 is 5% more than 5000. And not 25% more.

But in reality it would most likely be 1-2% increase, unless they boost ascended gear.

klesk.1790:

What will happen next? Their will be Party Groups saying “Only Full Ascended gear only~!” Is this wat the majority gw2 users wants? i don’t think so…

I doubt they would say so.
They might possibly say “Only 25+ Agony Resist”. If they are going to some dungeon with high agony damage.
But if it’ll be like fotm, we will be able to do it with low agony and probably without it too!

As long as they carry out their statements about making it available from a collection of sources, available to people regardless of playstyle, I couldn’t care less about however many new tiers of gear they add.

As long as everyone can, and does get to have it regardless of how they play, it’s perfectly fair for everyone.

Evalia.7103:

Do you use food buffs?
Do you use wrench buffs?
Do you stack stacking sigils , then wield a weapon with different ones in actual wvw combat?
Do you buy stat karma boosts from wayfarer foothills?
If the answer to at least one of these question is NO,
you can’t grumble about ascended gear because you denied yourself amount of power (not as in stat but as in overall character strength) 10-20 times bigger (or the same as difference between exotic and ascended ring, in karma buffs case) than a difference between exotic and ascended currently gear pieces.

As soon as the ascended gear will be as easily accessible and as cheap as omnomnom bars, i’ll agree with you. Until that i’ll have to consider this argument as completely missing the point.

Evalia.7103:

Do you use food buffs?
Do you use wrench buffs?
Do you stack stacking sigils , then wield a weapon with different ones in actual wvw combat?
Do you buy stat karma boosts from wayfarer foothills?
If the answer to at least one of these question is NO,
you can’t grumble about ascended gear because

…

Unless, of course, the reason we’re grumbling has nothing to do with your assumption about why we’re grumbling.

Lets also remember that in WvWvW you have players in there from levels 1-80 (bolstered to 80). There is already a difference between a level 80 character and a level 10 character that has been bolstered up, the level 80 character still has the advantage over the level 10 even though the level 10’s gear was bolstered up, it still doesn’t compare to the level 80 character. So having acsended gear in the WvWvW doesn’t make any difference in the balance of WvWvW.

eisberg.2379:

Lets also remember that in WvWvW you have players in there from levels 1-80 (bolstered to 80). There is already a difference between a level 80 character and a level 10 character that has been bolstered up, the level 80 character still has the advantage over the level 10 even though the level 10’s gear was bolstered up, it still doesn’t compare to the level 80 character. So having acsended gear in the WvWvW doesn’t make any difference in the balance of WvWvW.

Right, we all know WvW is about numbers and strategy. You might like to ‘roam’ but that’s only to get cheap kills off people not really there for fighting, so you might as well go to sPvP for equality.

eisberg.2379:

There is already a difference between a level 80 character and a level 10 character that has been bolstered up, the level 80 character still has the advantage over the level 10 even though the level 10’s gear was bolstered up, it still doesn’t compare to the level 80 character.

Yes. That is a problem that should also be solved eventually. There is no point in making it even worse than it already is.