Guild Wars 2

This is maybe, my first “complaining about something” topic I create in my GW-GW2 story (don’t remember if I did in 7 years).

Point of the topic is: if you are not a bot or simply you don’t care for other people in game just try to lie to yourself about it. If you see a player that is downed in the middle of a boss fight with no AoE around him at least try to help him. I’m not saying to become a red cross operative, but just to care a bit more about the community and about the others and see the map time to time.

I was doing the Flame Ether champion in Labirintyne Cliffs, lot of people there, the champion focused me and downed me, I struggled for at least 30 secs asking for help too in “say” chat.
Sadly the ress came only when I was defeated

I was doing the boss for the achievement too like the other peps there. But it seemed to me they were afk just spamming auto attacks without seeing me on the ground. So, if 30 people don’t even try to ress me I can’t say it’s just a case where they didn’t see me. They just didn’t want to bother about ressing someone.
And this is a game and community un-health sign.

Today’s episode was only the latest of the same facts.

So if you like what you do in game, you like the game and not necessarily like to play with others, just try to care more about the community. Because without a healty community the game die

Thats how some people are, sadly it’s how this world works.

The other day I was doing shatterer I think, I dunno what happened but I got downed in the middle of the mass of attacking players and no one helped me, I had to rez myself. When someone goes down beside you you will always get the Ressurect icon so I don’t think they missed it.

I just have to live with it, there are truly alot of players that only thinks about themselfes and no one else, but that won’t stop me from being kind to other though.

This was to be expected.

The downed state places an icon over a player’s head which displays a signal to everyone else. Depending on who you’re playing with; that icon can mean a few things.

1) Oops, help?
2) I’m worth some XP if you rub me for a bit?
3) I’m new around here I might go down a few more times.
4) I’m a terrible player and I’m a liability to the group.

If you expect to be resurrected every time you should ask yourself if you’re really needed by the group or not. I’ve 2 manned and even solo’d 5 player content before. Some players are better left dead unfortunately.

That might be True for dungeons, I had some moments at the Giganticus Lupicus Fight where I said “Don’t take the risk of reviving me, I will die again anyways”.
But in the open World, where a death isn’t that problematic, reviving should be standart.
If I see a downed Symbol on the Minimap, no matter how far away it is, I try to get there to help and often got a “thank you” for that.

Justdeifyme.9387:

But in the open World, where a death isn’t that problematic, reviving should be standard.

It shouldn’t in my opinion.

Death is quite an inconvenience isn’t it? You have to open the map and click on a way point and run back. Wouldn’t it be more simple for someone to take time out of their game to help me get back up? I guess that would depend on how inconvenient it is to resurrect that player.

Calae.1738:

Justdeifyme.9387:

But in the open World, where a death isn’t that problematic, reviving should be standard.

It shouldn’t in my opinion.

Death is quite an inconvenience isn’t it? You have to open the map and click on a way point and run back. Wouldn’t it be more simple for someone to take time out of their game to help me get back up? I guess that would depend on how inconvenient it is to resurrect that player.

Leaving someone downed is a different matter entirely. Once you’ve got credit for an event, it’s not a big deal to res someone who’s in a safe spot.

In a group setting, like a dungeon, there are times when it’s better to just fight (even if it’s solo) than to res. Other times it’s better to focus on ressing instead of fighting solo.

It’s a sketchy subject, but for the most part, just ask yourself this:

1. Is he safe?
2. Am I safe?
3. Is he down, not dead? If he’s dead, do we need him?
4. Am I getting credit?

If the answer is yes to all of the above, just res him.

In a world event, or in a normal fight with monsters it isn’t very risky or dangerous to take the time to revive someone. It just costs a few seconds or minutes, not more. And if helping others isn’t worth a few minutes of your time, well then you are not a person I would like to spend my time with.

but too many resurrector will pop up on daily reviver^^.

there are some fights where ressing downed players means be downed as well.
i’ll never ress people that stay under the feet of jormag where there is a condition that deals 400 damage per second at 3 stacks.
i won’t ress people at grenth event, especially dead people, while i could try downed.

i always ress people when doing so is not a worthless risk. and in general open world before doing it i’ll just ask if you are there or afk.

Actually, this is very dependent on circumstances. I always try to rez people but it takes more than ‘a few seconds’ and in that time you’re very vulnerable and can very easily end up dead yourself. Sometimes it’s better to just kill the mobs, the downed person will most probably automatically rez when the mob they have targeted dies anyway.

Look at the champion cave troll in Queensdale. That will quite happily one-shot a lower level player. If you try to help them while the troll is nearby you’ll probably get the next rock in the face. I wait till it’s attention is diverted onto someone else but even then it can change its target in an instant with no warning at all.

I have nothing against rezzing people and do it when it’s safe but there’s no point ending up with both of us dead.

I Usually Yell at people not to res me. Reason being is cause I need to learn where I went wrong…which I usually figure out in the few seconds that I went down.

Still I’d rather Die then to be res’d that’s just me. I have my reasons for wanting it that way. Plus I learned not res anyone from another game. Why on earth would I give the chance to another player to One shot the both of us with a predator missile or a Sawed-off shotgun or a Very Well Aimed Shot from a Rivet gun?

Still like the others here have posted I’ll help you IF (and that’s a MIGHTY HUGE IF) you’re safe. However I rarely do that, except when the claw is up. Man do people go down like a lead rake in that event.

I hate it when I get downed, and people just walk past me without a care in the world..

Sometimes there’s no excuse for dying/getting downed. For example, I almost always state at the start of phase 2 on the Claw of Jormag fight for people to stay off the ice until the event text says he’s stunned, otherwise the deadly ice debuff will be applied to them and probably kill. Guess what? 10+ people end up dead on the ice repeatedly, and then ask in chat “wtf just happened?!!11?!”. Those are the only people I specifically don’t revive.

If you’re too ignorant/overconfident to follow basic instructions to avoid hampering your team, stay dead. Otherwise, I’ll gladly revive you as long as it won’t get me killed in the process :P We’re all human, we can all make mistakes.

If I can be reasonably safe while doing so, I’ll generally help a downed player. I think most people will do the same.

In other MMO’s I’ve played, rezzing someone was a “chore” that even the designated healer whined about doing. I was actually surprised (and encouraged) in GW2 how many people will rush to help a downed player.

That said, if you die, try not to have an entitled attitude about getting a rez. It’s still a favor…no one owes you anything.

I just realized that op is from EU. Maybe it is a community thing?

In the American servers, you’ll be having issues people ressing you even if you told them not to. >.>

Calae.1738:

This was to be expected.

The downed state places an icon over a player’s head which displays a signal to everyone else. Depending on who you’re playing with; that icon can mean a few things.

1) Oops, help?
2) I’m worth some XP if you rub me for a bit?
3) I’m new around here I might go down a few more times.
4) I’m a terrible player and I’m a liability to the group.

If you expect to be resurrected every time you should ask yourself if you’re really needed by the group or not. I’ve 2 manned and even solo’d 5 player content before. Some players are better left dead unfortunately.

Not quite, but close.

1. If i res this person, i will gain aggro, and if i go down, it will create a chain of “attempted res” deaths for the party.
2. If i res this person, i might not be able to dodge in time if i am targeted, and i will die too. I dont want to pay 1s64 to repair.
3. If i res this person, i might not have done enough damage to the boss/target to get credit for the event/kill (includes wvw here).
4. If i res this person, he is going to type “ty/thx/thanks” in chat and while he is typing, he is going to die again.
5. If i res this person, i am going to get 1270 xp. I do not need xp.
6. If i res this person, i will have to walk all the way over there. Such a pain.
7. If i res this person, i know they will die again because they are running MF gear/ full zerker gear in the wrong event/area/dungeon.

The worst part is, knowing all this, i will still(try to)res you.

Maybe it was because of the culling effect that they didn’t ress you? In events with 30 players i have to play on subsample settings, the temple of Grenth for example is impossible for me to participate, i always first get killed then a moment later i see lots of spiders around me.

I alt tab out and auto attack during the big meta events for open world bosses. I’m guessing others do the same for obvious reasons

I rez people all the time. Admittedly not when I’m AFK, but when I see a downed player, even if it’s out of my way, I’ll go to help them.

I think it helps create a better game for everyone.

Vayne.8563:

I rez people all the time. Admittedly not when I’m AFK, but when I see a downed player, even if it’s out of my way, I’ll go to help them.

I think it helps create a better game for everyone.

^

Thanks to all the construtives answers;
GW2 day is going better because of that!

About the topic: I agree that in dungeon situations you have to carefully decide if you can rez people without creating more problems.
I was referring specifically to an open PvE with a high player situation, and in that case non very dangerous since I was the only one who were focused, downed and killed.
It wasn’t even a rez chain situation as it is during Claw of Jormag.

Being more careful about the mobs attacks and learn to dodge is the best thing. But having supportives players near you makes things better

I used to revive others, until I was passed up by a group of players while I was downed (in WvW) and nobody stopped to revive me. I now ‘pay it forward’ by refusing to revive other downed players.

As i wear my combat healer title with pride, i want to add something to the topic:

Zoldyck.6241:

I just realized that op is from EU. Maybe it is a community thing?

In the American servers, you’ll be having issues people ressing you even if you told them not to. >.>

It’s a community thing ofc (this thread shows some good examples), but not a matter of regions – i am on vabbi and i hardly see a downed/dead player not being rezzed.

Esplen.3940:

It’s a sketchy subject, but for the most part, just ask yourself this:

1. Is he safe?
2. Am I safe?
3. Is he down, not dead? If he’s dead, do we need him?
4. Am I getting credit?

If the answer is yes to all of the above, just res him.

I have to disagree on some parts here:

1. If he’s not save, it is even more important to get him up on his feet asap
2. For me more risk = more challenge (ofc i try not to be too suicidal)
3. Yes downed/dead is something i consider as well, as rezzing a dead one takes a lot more time (and takes away the rally option) – but you don’t need to rezz them in one go. “Do we need him?” For me this sounds pretty arrogant (no personal pun intended), in my book every player has the same right to participate – pros and newbs alike…
4. For me helping others is a reward in itself, but thats a personal trait i guess (Healer classes have allways been among my favorites, even though ingame rewards are often subpar and bad players are yelling at you a lot)

As long as my answer to 2 isn’t it is suicide, i have to agree with Vayne (seldom as i do):

Vayne.8563:

I rez people all the time. Admittedly not when I’m AFK, but when I see a downed player, even if it’s out of my way, I’ll go to help them.

I think it helps create a better game for everyone.

The only real issue i see with rezzing players is in wvw, because of how the rally mechanic works and that is a serious design flaw imo.

Last but not least:

eveleaf.4132:

That said, if you die, try not to have an entitled attitude about getting a rez. It’s still a favor…no one owes you anything.

Elbegast.6970:

I used to revive others, until I was passed up by a group of players while I was downed (in WvW) and nobody stopped to revive me. I now ‘pay it forward’ by refusing to revive other downed players.

The logic!

There are two MAIN reasons NOT to res someone:

a) A nearby mob is almost dead so he can rally, sometimes you might miscalculate and the mob dies a split second after the player is defeated, it can happen unfortunately

b) There are aoe red circles where you dropped, trying to res someone and get downed won’t help anyone.

There are professions however that can rez anyone in almost all situations, Thieves can pop Shadow Refugee to stealth the downed player so he doesn’t get agro, Guardians can use Aegis/Protection skills to rez without fear of damage etc

It makes no sense to me when players don’t rez downed players, unless it’s the a) situation where you can’t exactly help it, or there is wipe incoming or retreat necessary.

I rez people whenever possible. However, on more than a few occasions I’ve gone out of my way to rez someone only to have them >poof< disappear just as I got there. I’ve also rezzed people (who were downed but died before I could get there) only to realize that they’d gone AFK – usually in a very dangerous place. There was a time when I’d stand by that person and protect them until they came back (or disappeared several minutes later, like the asura in the screenshot), but I don’t do that anymore. Ain’t nobody got time for that!

So, if your character is dead and you decide to leave them lying there while you go watch Days of Our Lives or whatever, be advised that if I happen along I will rez you and then go on about my business. If you get clobbered again, it’s all on you.

I have spoken. Seylah!

Diaspro.8529:

But it seemed to me they were afk just spamming auto attacks without seeing me on the ground.

That would be because a vast majority of the people are afk just spamming auto attacks. I know I do it at every world boss.

Only time I’d ever revive someone in a champion fight is if the mob is pulled from the downed players location first.
Reviving a player puts you way up there on the mob’s aggro list, and if down in close proximity to the mob, 1 downed player quickly becomes 2 or maybe 3. It happens so often that I bet many people are playing it safe and not really a case of everyone not caring to help.

maddoctor.2738:

There are two MAIN reasons NOT to res someone:

a) A nearby mob is almost dead so he can rally, sometimes you might miscalculate and the mob dies a split second after the player is defeated, it can happen unfortunately

This is a poor reason to not revive someone. Giving someone a manual revive grants them more health than an on-kill rally, which can be important for letting them use that heal skill they desperately need. Additionally, if you really want them to rally off a kill instead of having to sit there that long, just stop reviving when they’re at half health or something. Letting someone drop below 1/4th of their downed health is exceptionally dangerous no matter what, and having to revive someone from defeated (or fight without them) is far worse than spending 10 seconds healing them from downed state.

maddoctor.2738:

b) There are aoe red circles where you dropped, trying to res someone and get downed won’t help anyone.

This however, is a very good reason to not revive someone. If you’re not going to be able to survive the damage associated with being on top of that person’s dead body, you’re just throwing yourself away too. If you see red circles, don’t try and heal through them! Just get out, and come back when they’re gone to try and revive the person past the health loss at that point. I used to get myself killed all the time trying to revive people under heavy AoE pressure, and you’re right: it’s just not helping anyone.

I used to res people all the time but I just now stopped around a month ago because of this exact reason. If there was ever a rating list for bad gaming communities, Guild Wars 2 would surely win. I know I have to toss this in but: not everyone is like that but sadly mostly everyone is, I’m tired of dealing with selfish pricks.

I revive frequently. I don’t revive players in AoE, in a boss’ cleave zone or the ones that Vapor Form away from me when they aren’t being attacked. I also will not revive someone who’s been defeated if there’s a convenient, uncontested WP nearby.

I love helping people, even in a game like this. Although you have to time it out right and not try to rez someone in a bad situation where you both end up dying.

ExTribble.7108:

Sometimes there’s no excuse for dying/getting downed. For example, I almost always state at the start of phase 2 on the Claw of Jormag fight for people to stay off the ice until the event text says he’s stunned, otherwise the deadly ice debuff will be applied to them and probably kill. Guess what? 10+ people end up dead on the ice repeatedly, and then ask in chat “wtf just happened?!!11?!”. Those are the only people I specifically don’t revive.

If you’re too ignorant/overconfident to follow basic instructions to avoid hampering your team, stay dead. Otherwise, I’ll gladly revive you as long as it won’t get me killed in the process :P We’re all human, we can all make mistakes.

Yeah. I can relate. I never go out on the ice to rez ppl. Just like I never rez ppl at Teq who can’t be bothered to roll out of the poison breath, then lay there saying ’rez plz", when it takes less time to wp and run back then it takes to rez from dead. Same thing happened today opening Lyssa. Ppl stand still, soak dps, and then lay there waiting for a rez when it would take 10 seconds to run back from the waypoint opened during the event chain, For That PURPOSE! I do regularly get ppl up from down.

If you can’t be bothered to dodge, get out of persistent aoe, rub two brain cells together…. I ain’t dying to rez you. WP and run back. Mind you, I do run support builds on my ele and guard, I do get ppl up alot and speed rez ppl in a group. I do NOT keep getting up ppl that keep doing The Same Dumb Thing. I earned my Combat Healer title the legit way, doesn’t mean I took a Hippocratic Oath tho.

I have noticed a correlation between this kind of selfish game play and the level of immaturity that has developed in the hotspot gathering places like Lion’s Arch.

I used to spend a great deal more time in LA until recently. The chat is almost entirely comprised of trolls, tasteless jokes, and immature prattle that has to be navigated carefully if you want to get anything remotely useful out of it. I fear this has overflowed into the rest of the game as well.

I noticed the change in overall attitude and behavior around the time the world boss chests were introduced and the large number of rare and exotic items flooded in. Places that used to have moderate player traffic and generally pleasant groups of people were overrun by trolls and avarice.

I also find that with fewer and fewer viable farming spots for materials the community is becoming more self centric with regards to protecting “territory”. More and more farmers play in areas that yield decent results and get agitated when someone disrupts their pattern or starts an event that might alter the group and mob type.

I am torn in this regard because I know that behavior is wrong but at the same time I sympathize with them because this game makes a dedicated farmer work so much harder than nearly every other AAA title on the market.

These are just my opinions and observations. For those that still have altruistic habits and can have fun without being insulting, greedy, or vulgar, I applaud you.

It saddens me that you haven’t had the pleasure of meeting RG field medics

Those 40 guys would literally run you over after you held the supply camp long enough for them to arrive and save it. After the enemies were dispatched and even if there was no immediate distress call, you were left there because they couldn’t stop 2 seconds while on your corpse. “The waypoint is near” anyways. Aaah… good times.

I spend most of my time in wvw so ressing is tactical and important for the group to survive. I’ll nearly always res if possible, but there are a few exceptions. If taking myself out of the fight will give the enemy too much of an edge in my part of the battlefield, I have to consider that. If the arrow carts are all focused on you, sorry, but you’re going to stay dead. If the wp isn’t far and the battle could go either way, I think you should wp.

For pve champion fights, I’d res. I always appreciate it so I lead by example. I got my combat healer title after something like two weeks of playing this game. If everyone’s being really lazy, ehn, that sucks. I guess they don’t want to play with other people and don’t care if they’re ressed either. True pve I suppose.

Kinda missing my point. I res, or get up. Lots. But I don’t waste my time if it would take less time for the to WP and run back. Esp in a fight where odds are I won’t stay out of combat so will be rezzing slow. I also won’t repeatedly waste my time rezzing someone doing the same dumb kitten and dying all over. WvW is an entirely different matter. Hell, sometime it’s smarter to target who they are chucking stones at and speed the rally. I watch ppl while playing. Ppl that can’t be bothered to leave kill zones and aoe, or seem to think dodging is a sin? No, I won’t risk getting myself killed for that.

Things are more complex than just “rez meeee”, indeed this attitude can result in failure.

Positioning
How many people look behind themselves during combat? – Frequently, a ranger or similar newbie needling the enemy from extreme range will cop a hit and go down. But being outside everyone’s field of view they don’t get noticed for quite some time, possibly til it’s too late.

Rally opportunities
In a fight against many foes or if a boss is almost dead anyway, it may be faster to kill the adds then to try healing the downed player – which people will do. However, frequently a downed newbie will focus entirely on healing himself instead of hitting the adds or enemy so when the enemy dies, the newbie is still downed and subsequently dies.

Threat
If the guy has just been downed by a large boss with a powerful melee AoE attack, trying to rally you may get you killed too; I’ve frequently seen 5 or 6 newbies die trying to rez a single downed person because they stood in the enemies forward arc.

Other times, like in WvW – if your zerg is routed and fleeing, and you’re rearguard is being chewed up, staying to help the fallen will likely get you killed too. It’d be less detrimental to the force to leave the fallen to their fate

Being objective
In some battles like Subject Alpha (If you’re not stacking), or the temple of Grentyh, stopping to heal – or worse, completely revive – a downed player is a death sentence for both of you; there are times where respawning will be better for everyone than waitting on a rez

Other times where time is crucial, losing 1 person’s DPS permenantly may be less detrimental, than losing 2 peoples DPS for 10-20 seconds.

All that said, there’s plenty of occasions I’ve seen where a rez would’ve turned the tide of battle. But I’ve also seen it go the other way and people making rezes at inappropriate times has cost the battle

If somebody who is running right past you in the open world dosnt stop to res they are just a sheer muppet plain and simple

takes a matter of seconds, rewards xp and its in the daily some days.

In dungeons and other more group focused content fair enough but if somebody is too far up their own kitten to res in the middle of a normal zone, well……

I will rez people if I can do so without putting my character in downed state as well.

I won’t rez people who need to learn something. For instance, when I’m happily mowing down the Champ Wolfmaster with no danger of being downed, and some ranger pulls in and unloads every shot they have at an active whirling defense, taking themselves down and ripping half my hp off, yeah, I’m letting them lie there. I might even mention something like “what does reflects projectiles mean to you” in local. I’ll rez em when I’m done killing.

I’ve found most people are very willing to rez you as long as it’s safe. The only time I’ve had to use a waypoint is when there was no one around and I didn’t feel like waiting.

The one exception to that was when I was doing TA with a pug. We decided to skip one section (or rather the self-assigned leader told us to and no one felt like arguing). Everyone else made it, I got caught by a few attacks and died right at the end. I was actually past the enemies and could see the rest of the group standing there but all they had to say about it was “we were skipping that part”. Apparently waiting for me to rez at the last waypoint and run all the way around again was preferable to walking a few steps back to rez me where I was.

But that’s just those few people who I will hopefully not be dealing with again.

There used to be this terrible trinity class, called a healer! It ruined all games and all the people that played them are vicious ghouls!!1!

The other evil class was called a tank, he made the healer’s life easier and gave room for the DPS to work without being randomly pounded to death.

Those kittens! We will never have them getting up our nose here!

An unfortunate byproduct of appealing to “carrot-oriented players” (which the Living Story and Achievement Points are no doubt designed to do) is that many such players prioritize “mine” over community. Fortunately, there are more than a few people in this game willing to go out of their way to help others.

I don’t think anyone (including the OP) is saying that you should kill yourself rezzing someone or feel obligated to spend 1s to WP to a dead player on your map or rez a dead player in a dungeon mid-battle if it’s more harm than good.

Just that, in an open world fight or boss battle, if you see a downed (or dead) player nearby and you won’t be killed while rezzing him, do it. Help a player out.

You don’t need to roam the battle field rezzing everyone and throwing down healing aoe’s. Just a little field triage to the guys at your feet would be nice. After all, most world boss fights are 50v1 zergs and rezzing a guy isn’t gonna depreciate your gold medal contribution.

Primernova.5791:

There used to be this terrible trinity class, called a healer! It ruined all games and all the people that played them are vicious ghouls!!1!

The other evil class was called a tank, he made the healer’s life easier and gave room for the DPS to work without being randomly pounded to death.

Those kittens! We will never have them getting up our nose here!

I used to be one of those evil healers… but from what I recall the tank was actually someone who’d run as far as possible away from me, then scream OMG HEALZZZZZ while the dps stood around comparing recount numbers…

I remember the days of ‘the healer’. Fun times. You’d get the inevitable barrage of abuse when someone died because they ran out of range or round a corner.

Usual response was “Why are you abusing the only person in the group who can keep you alive?” They either left or went quiet.

As a healer, I always stuck with the main part of the group. If someone ran off to do their own thing, that was their lookout.

Sitkaz.5463:

Primernova.5791:

There used to be this terrible trinity class, called a healer! It ruined all games and all the people that played them are vicious ghouls!!1!

The other evil class was called a tank, he made the healer’s life easier and gave room for the DPS to work without being randomly pounded to death.

Those kittens! We will never have them getting up our nose here!

I used to be one of those evil healers… but from what I recall the tank was actually someone who’d run as far as possible away from me, then scream OMG HEALZZZZZ while the dps stood around comparing recount numbers…

God I miss that! Well, not that exactly.

I preferred when the tank marked CC targets, the DPS decided on a burn down target and I kept the whole lot up while they tried the plan.

Be it fail or win, it was random and fun as kitten!

People need to play smart.

What irritates me the most is when someone is downed and a mob is at very low health.
You guys know the rally mechanic right? You’d get yourself up much quicker if you finished off the mob rather than hopelessly try to heal yourself.

So the next time you see me killing a mob right beside you rather than ressing you, I expect you to tag the mob rather than heal yourself through it.

I see this a lot in dungeons when a mob/boss is at 5% and everyone moves over to res that one guy. You’d kill two birds in one stone if you just finished the boss off.

I do try to rez people. Heck, I’ve been known to even go out of my way when I see a downed marker on my map just to help the person out (much to my husband’s dismay many times).

Admittedly, occasionally if someone kittened me off, I’ll just leave ’em down, but not often.

lunawisp.2378:

I remember the days of ‘the healer’. Fun times. You’d get the inevitable barrage of abuse when someone died because they ran out of range or round a corner.

Usual response was “Why are you abusing the only person in the group who can keep you alive?” They either left or went quiet.

As a healer, I always stuck with the main part of the group. If someone ran off to do their own thing, that was their lookout.

You were probably not cut out to be a healer then.

Tanks and healers, are the MMO player base that glue the ultra random DPS together. We accept the abuse and cat herding, but we also adore it in a weird way. We mold it into a functional system, for lack or a better term.

Why U hate us, A-net?

I’ve played in Ring of Fire since launch and now in Aurora Glade since April and never had, never, such problems with people