Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
(edited by Zaoda.1653)
You really need to change RNG Anet...
500+ tequatl the sunless kills = 2 Tequatl’s Hoard only.
’sup?
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
ditto on teq….and no teq box
Wow that really is bad :-/
To be honest, I’d rather have an update to RNG (so it’s more in line with guaranteed rewards after X kills or X whatevers) over any other future update right now. I’d take it over a living story update, I’d take it over an expansion. I’m that desperate.
Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
The problem is that if they relied on less RNG, people would get the loot much quicker resulting in less people doing the event/bosses. They can’t do what other games do as the loot systems are entirely different. In GW2, loot for each player is separate rather than pooled together as a group. A lot of the loot also doesn’t require as much prep work to get as other games.
The problem is that if they relied on less RNG, people would get the loot much quicker resulting in less people doing the event/bosses. They can’t do what other games do as the loot systems are entirely different. In GW2, loot for each player is separate rather than pooled together as a group. A lot of the loot also doesn’t require as much prep work to get as other games.
Yeah.
But it’s also not a solution to make people do events every single day for a decade or two to accomplish goal they made.
In my case, I want skins from Teq. And even so, I would still do it, because it’s fair easy with nice mechanics boss.
I pretty much should even stop doing that event.
Since Collections release, I didn’t get even a single exotic except that exotic spoon. And I’m doing it everyday – sometimes twice or 3 times, on other chars too.
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
(edited by Tao.5096)
But it’s also not a solution to make people do events every single day for a decade or two to accomplish goal they made
“Make people do events.. to accomplish a goal they made [for themselves]”
This is the problem. If you’re doing RNG activities for a specific reward, you’re going to be disappointed. Just do the events for whatever reward you get, and the day you do get what you’re looking for will be a great day.
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
Unfortunately, RNG has always been a part of mmorpgs. It’s even more so in most mmorpgs out there than GW2. I hate RNG too but it has its place and function in the game and you realize that once you’ve played through a variety of similar games.
The problem is that if they relied on less RNG, people would get the loot much quicker resulting in less people doing the event/bosses. They can’t do what other games do as the loot systems are entirely different. In GW2, loot for each player is separate rather than pooled together as a group. A lot of the loot also doesn’t require as much prep work to get as other games.
Yeah.
But it’s also not a solution to make people do events every single day for a decade or two to accomplish goal they made.
In my case, I want skins from Teq. And even so, I would still do it, because it’s fair easy with nice mechanics boss.I pretty much should even stop doing that event.
Since Collections release, I didn’t get even a single exotic except that exotic spoon. And I’m doing it everyday – sometimes twice or 3 times, on other chars too.
Exactly my point. I can understand that anet wants people to stick around, but the current system is doing the complete opposite for me. It’s actually discouraging me from doing the content because it p’ses me off so much at how many times I have to kill X boss to get a 1 in a million chance at X drop.
Atleast with a fixed system (like the sPvP reward track for example), people know that they WILL ultimately get what they want, and at the same time, be willing to grind for it, knowing they WILL actually get it. As it is now, you NEVER know when you’re going to get said reward, and you could be there FOREVER. If anything, the current system discourages people from doing said content, and, like me, definitely wants nothing to do with it after I get said reward.
You know, for the past 2 years I haven’t even touched sPvP because I thought it was only for pros, but ever since the new daily reward system (and the fact that I wanted the glorious medium chest because it’s literally the ONLY top that isn’t a god dang trenchcoat), I have had quite a fun time, because unlike the current RNG system, this permanent reward track idea lets me know that, sure there will be some grind, but YOU WILL get your reward in the end. I like that. And just a couple days ago I was finally able to get that chest piece I wanted. Will I do more sPvP because of it? Yes. Because I am guaranteed a reward for my efforts.
Will I be saying the same about staying for more vine kills after I get my final carapace coat box? Absolutely not. The hair-pullingly-frustrating RNG has literally killed any and all enjoyment I had of the vine boss for me.
And there is the difference.
Grindy RNGsus system = discouraging
Permanent and fixed reward system = encouraging
I rest my case.
Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
(edited by Zaoda.1653)
The devs should adopt the following rules when creating new items:
1. If an item is Soulbound or Account Bound, there should be a Guaranteed method of obtaining said item. It can be a very difficult or very tedious method, but it needs to be guaranteed.
2. If an item can Only be obtained Randomly, then it should be Sellable on the Trading Post. It can become Account Bound or Soulbound after it is used, but should be sellable.
Because if an item can only be obtained Randomly and is Account Bound(not Buyable), no matter what the probability of said item dropping(even 99%), the possibility that a player Never obtains said item due to sheer bad luck still exists, be it a Veteran or New player alike. This is very bad.
Examples are Tequatl’s Hoard, Pile of Regurgitated Armor, Mini Gwyneferd, Carapace Coat Box.
(edited by Turtle Dragon.9241)
500+ tequatl the sunless kills = 2 Tequatl’s Hoard only.
’sup?
1000+ teq kills = 0 teq hoards, more spoons then I know what to do with <<
booyah!
IGN: Soren the Always Lost
Gaiscioch Family [GSCH]
Gaiscioch Family [GSCH]
I remember the countless posts (mostly angry posts – and rightfully so!) about players wanting that mini ghost puppy/wolf/whatever it is, and opening literally hundreds of thousands of Trick or Treat bags (I heard one case of 130,000 bags opened & zero ghostly dog/wolf mini’s), only to still wind up with none.
I have so much empathy for them and couldn’t comprehend their immense frustration with the RNG system. Not to mention all the money AND time they would have wasted.
Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
(edited by Zaoda.1653)
I remember the countless posts (mostly angry posts – and rightfully so!) about players wanting that mini ghost puppy/wolf/whatever it is, and opening literally hundreds of thousands of Trick or Treat bags (I heard one case of 130,000 bags opened & zero ghostly dog/wolf mini’s), only to still wind up with none.
I have so much empathy for them and couldn’t comprehend their immense frustration with the RNG system. Not to mention all the money AND time they would have wasted.
Funny. When I hear about someone devoting that much resources and effort to something so inconsequential, I start to question their sanity….
Of course, it’s also players with these kinds of resources that have periodically jacked tp prices to ridiculous levels for personal profit.
So, uh, you may find me lacking in empathy.
I ran a simulation on acquiring mordrem organs from bags. On average, it would take 16 bags from each boss for most players to get all the organs required for Luminesecent Armor, provided they had waited until now to open them.
The upper bound on the trials was 74 bags, but it is theoretically infinite.
Funny. When I hear about someone devoting that much resources and effort to something so inconsequential, I start to question their sanity….
Of course, it’s also players with these kinds of resources that have periodically jacked tp prices to ridiculous levels for personal profit.
So, uh, you may find me lacking in empathy.
Ditto. When it comes to RNG bags (ToT, wintersday gifts, and other similar things), people are making the conscious choice to gamble, often thousands upon thousands of times. They choose to waste that much gold (and, often, waste real life money in order to get gold to waste) for a mini that can’t be sold and is only wanted because of the fact that it’s so rare (and for the completionists out there who like to get every mini in the game).
So yeah, I can’t really feel much in the way of empathy for chronic gamblers.
But it’s also not a solution to make people do events every single day for a decade or two to accomplish goal they made
“Make people do events.. to accomplish a goal they made [for themselves]”
This is the problem. If you’re doing RNG activities for a specific reward, you’re going to be disappointed. Just do the events for whatever reward you get, and the day you do get what you’re looking for will be a great day.
+1 Andred
Sadly not everyone chooses to see it that way.
Funny. When I hear about someone devoting that much resources and effort to something so inconsequential, I start to question their sanity….
Of course, it’s also players with these kinds of resources that have periodically jacked tp prices to ridiculous levels for personal profit.
So, uh, you may find me lacking in empathy.
Ditto. When it comes to RNG bags (ToT, wintersday gifts, and other similar things), people are making the conscious choice to gamble, often thousands upon thousands of times. They choose to waste that much gold (and, often, waste real life money in order to get gold to waste) for a mini that can’t be sold and is only wanted because of the fact that it’s so rare (and for the completionists out there who like to get every mini in the game).
So yeah, I can’t really feel much in the way of empathy for chronic gamblers.
I’m not talking about the ones that want to gamble for the ghost mini, I’m talking about the ones that legitimately want it because they like it – not for its rarity, not for brag rights, not for gambling addictions etc. etc.
Also… 14th vine kill and surprise surprise, no coat box yet again.
I must either have horrible luck, or I’m doing something wrong. 90% of the time I run the south lane, though my luck didn’t change when I did top or middle either so…
Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
(edited by Zaoda.1653)
I’m not talking about the ones that want to gamble for the ghost mini, I’m talking about the ones that legitimately want it because they like it – not for its rarity, not for brag rights, not for gambling addictions etc. etc.
Also… 14th vine kill and surprise surprise, no coat box yet again.
I must either have horrible luck, or I’m doing something wrong. 90% of the time I run the south lane, though my luck didn’t change when I did top or middle either so…
A guildie got one her first one, one her second run, and then none for the next 10+ runs. I think it was around run #15 she finally got coat #3. I was luckier; one the first time, one the second time, none the third time, and then one the fourth time.
Your location won’t have anything to do with it. Like you said, it’s just RNG. :\
In GW1 the RNG was in place for the VS. I planned three daily runs and expected top get one every 2-3 months, and it averaged out to one every 256 runs for me. I received 38 total over the life of the game.
GW2 is the same way, I portion my time and I have a little better luck, over 500 Teq kills and 5 Hordes, with a few other Ascended boxes as well.
There are hitches, as we saw with the SB staff. I am sure there are other hitches as well that are currently unknown, and that is what bothers me. They took three years to figure out the problem with the staff at SB, how long will it take to gather enough insight to know that there is even a problem in the general database or with certain parameters that affect the data selections that create the reward tables.
They took three years to figure out the problem with the staff at SB, how long will it take to gather enough insight to know that there is even a problem in the general database or with certain parameters that affect the data selections that create the reward tables.
They fixed the Final Rest drops in the first couple of months of 2013. So, yeah, didn’t take three years for them to fix it, but it still took them some time to figure it out.
in aura kingdoms they have it so that if you buy 10 boxes and the best loot didn’t drop after 9 times (in this case an outfit) the 10th will be a guaranteed drop, it’s a kind of service to say “thank you” to the players.
Anet however is pretty much giving us the finger and let us farm more then even perfect world would see as sane.
Funny. When I hear about someone devoting that much resources and effort to something so inconsequential, I start to question their sanity….
Of course, it’s also players with these kinds of resources that have periodically jacked tp prices to ridiculous levels for personal profit.
So, uh, you may find me lacking in empathy.
If you’re truly honest, the entire game is inconsequential. The only reason we play is because of personal goals that make it worth our time and effort in our own minds.
Would you continue to preform a RL activity if you were told that you’d be payed on a random day sometime in the future? If so, how motivated would you be if your co-worker got paid twice in the same number of days and had been there less often than you had? Or if the new guy got paid on his first day and you’d been there for the last month hoping today was your day?
At some point the human mind performs a cost benifit analysis and stops doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. The only people that don’t go through this process are called addicts and their only cure is complete removal from the addiction. Anet wants to keep players, not send them to recovery.
I know this is a game and I do have fun just protecting turrets and slaughtering the big flying lizard. I love the fight, but that’s not enough after a while. Anet did away with RNG when they designed the Dungeons. They can easily do the same for the Boss fights.
To me, changing the RNG or the system so that you have a near guaranteed chance to obtain something feels inherently wrong. There’s reasons these things are rare. If things were changed like people want, then practically everyone will be able to get everything with enough effort which still feels inherently wrong. OCD or completionists be dammed, this shouldn’t be a 100% collection game, it’s not Crash Bandicoot.
But hearing some of these stories, they sound like horror stories. Something could be done to alleviate some of the pressure. So what if, after doing an event or gaining some sort of achievement, you unlock another option, for instance you get the tequatl achievement, you unlock the special option to get an accumulating higher chance to get a specific drop of your choice from that event that gets higher every time you complete said event. But this special “treasure hunt” option is limited. You can only have one of these options chosen for a particular drop (that is a particular drop from any event/box in the game, only one can be chosen) at a time, changing the choice of drop to something else resets any bonus chance of getting the drop and upon obtaining the desired drop this option would then be locked for X amount of weeks (I’d say between 2 and 4 weeks). The idea isn’t to changes the fundamentals of the RNG but it should allow you to pick a particular reward you really really want out of many hard to obtain items and have a decent shot at it.
(edited by Leo G.4501)
To me, changing the RNG or the system so that you have a near guaranteed chance to obtain something feels inherently wrong. There’s reasons these things are rare. If things were changed like people want, then practically everyone will be able to get everything with enough effort which still feels inherently wrong. SNIP
Why? This game is not based on the elitism of gear grind. Dancing for hours in the town square in the latest RAID gear so others can marvel at the armor they would never acquire. Go pay a monthly if that’s your thing.
This game is based on ascetics and cooperation. If someone else has the same weapon, the same armor, the same mini as me, that does not make it any less valuable to me. And if I earn my stuff rather than getting a lucky roll, I value it more. RNG is not skill. It is not effort. It is luck, pure and simple.
Large boss fights are a massive team effort; a megaserver full of players working together. And in the end, only a very few get to walk away with the prize.
RNG, as a concept, is supposed to keep things fair. Everyone has the same chance to receive the desired drop. But, as with any random selection, there are always outliers. On a bell curve, 70% of the population falls within the norm. These persons are the average. That leaves 15% on either side that are far below or above average. There will always be those who run the events and never get the drop and there are those that will get the drop far more often then anyone else. It’s a matter of statistics, and because of this it is inherently unfair.
Anet knows this. As proof; Dungeon Armor is earned, not dropped. Open world special drops should be the same.
…
Would you continue to preform a RL activity if you were told that you’d be payed on a random day sometime in the future?…
Depends on the payout itself doesnt it? You would be surprised at the number of people who would take such a deal for say a Ferrari.
Apologies to those who may find my posts on GW2 forums offensive and hateful.
Teq 4 times 2 Teq hoards. Sorry. My problem is the stats can’t be changed. I’ve hated skins since the game began & have never paid for them. I would also like to see more target based resetable rewards. 200 exotic bags/chests opened get an ascended piece of customizable gear.
As new content gets added it will become impossible to find groups of 5 for older content.
Unfortunately, RNG has always been a part of mmorpgs. It’s even more so in most mmorpgs out there than GW2. I hate RNG too but it has its place and function in the game and you realize that once you’ve played through a variety of similar games.
True but there’s a right way and a wrong way of doing it and it’s well established now that they are doing it the wrong way. When you remove the reward system from the game almost entirely for most players to keep your failing economy afloat there’s a problem. When you design the game to be TPcentric there’s a problem. The element that gives players the fun factor they crave psychologically is gone and it becomes a chore and boring.
Diablo III is the best recent example of this. Their title became all about the real money auction house until 60% of the players left almost overnight. It sent a message to the devs and they not only removed the RMAH but they also increased the chance for drops by 100% and added new drop systems to find treasures while doing other things in the game. They made a second round of record sales almost exclusively off of that simple change they made before selling the game on consoles.
It seems clear what Arenanet and John Smith have to do to correct the problem.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
I can see exactly where this will go.
“Dear Anet, it is far too hard to get rarer prizes from events! Please fix”
The fix happens, and the complaints quickly turn into:
“Dear Anet, WTF? You made everything super easy to get (even if they increase the chance of getting something by .00001% people will rage that it is “OMG THE HUGEST BOOST EVER) and now I can’t make money because everything is super cheap on the TP! You guys are monsters for fixing the things we said were broken! Please fix!”
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
It seems clear what Arenanet and John Smith have to do to correct the problem.
I’d be willing to bet that even if they and he wanted to, they couldn’t. They’re owned by NCSoft. NCSoft doesn’t have applicable business sense when it comes to anything transpiring on the western hemisphere of the planet.
One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.
Since Collections release, I didn’t get even a single exotic except that exotic spoon. And I’m doing it everyday – sometimes twice or 3 times, on other chars too.
I bet you had several Superior Runes of the Useless too.
Offtopic aside the problem is that the law of large numbers only applies once the numbers are large enough to bring rates into the statistical realm; the lower the rate is, the larger the sample size needs to become for the droprate to approximate its set value.
Droprates for anything that hover at the 10% range are not a problem, because doing the content about 100 times will start to approximate the rate – and that is a number that is easily reachable in play.
Droprates for things that are at the 1% range like Tequatl hoards are a problem, because it starts to approach 1000 times – which for a daily restricted chest means three years of attempts.
Droprates for things set at the 0.1% range like precursors are just plain broken, as rolling an exotic drop wheel 10,000 times (that is, getting 10,000 exotic drops, which in itself requires getting close to 1,000,000 drops in total) takes so many attempts that no player can possibly approach statistical rates – so some will have above-statistical rates, and some will have just plain zero rates.
The easiest way to converge them is to increase drop rates without increasing the rates at which the item is granted – for instance, dropping ‘precursor shards’ at a 10% rate, where a 100-stack is required for combination into a precursor. Or a ‘Tequatl hoard shard’ at a 10% rate, with 10 shards required for combination into a hoard box. This allows for people to approach statistical droprates without having to deal with large attempt sample sizes that exceed anyone’s possible playtime – while also having the side effect of having a visible indicator of progress.
The worst thing is that they already did this with black lion ticket scraps, so SOMEONE at Arenanet clearly understands the concept, but the rest of the team simply does not view it as important enough for them to implement the already-existent system to other items with a similarly low drop rate.
P.S. 100% drop rates tend to be bad since people are psychologically conditioned to get more satisfaction from acquisitions with a random component. A better balance tends to be in the two digit percentage range.
MIKAZUKI - [Aura, MES, WvW CapCOM] [Ishigaki, GUA, WvW DefCOM] [Yumiya, RAN, WvW Sieger]
[Shinigami, NEC, WvW Condinuke] [Rekka, ELE, Fracs] [Tora, PS WAR] [Kageoni, THI] [Hayako, ENG]
[Shinigami, NEC, WvW Condinuke] [Rekka, ELE, Fracs] [Tora, PS WAR] [Kageoni, THI] [Hayako, ENG]
(edited by Hayashi.3416)
Mesmer mechanic is 20% RNG. LOL.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
I can see exactly where this will go.
“Dear Anet, it is far too hard to get rarer prizes from events! Please fix”
The fix happens, and the complaints quickly turn into:
“Dear Anet, WTF? You made everything super easy to get (even if they increase the chance of getting something by .00001% people will rage that it is “OMG THE HUGEST BOOST EVER) and now I can’t make money because everything is super cheap on the TP! You guys are monsters for fixing the things we said were broken! Please fix!”
I made a proposal a long time ago, to make certain items, mostly account bound on acquire items, tradeable while in a party. That way, if you get a drop you already have, for a collection, or a rare drop that you don’t need, ascended box with stats you don’t want, but someone else in the party wants, they can get it instead.
This keeps rarity exactly the same, same RNG chances, same loot tables, same loot rolls etc, but adds an extra incentive to party with people, an extra incentive to party with people on a more frequent basis, and extra benefits for playing with your guildies and friends.
That way “super lucky” people can spread their luck, and “super unlucky” people will get some extra benefits. I don’t think people will complain about it anyway, because the base chance will stay the same, just people who hoard the items because RNG likes them, will get the opportunity to give those items to others.
Notice that I only want this for items that are Accound Bound on acquire and not sellable on the TP, because having multiple items that can be sold on the TP has another benefit for players, while Accound Bound on Acquire items have absolutely no use if you don’t actually need them.
A friend of mine got two dusks in first two tries in mf. He playes for a couple of months. I have been flushed around 700 gold in mf and got nothing. After the flush that happened 4 months ago now, and i have been playing for 2 something years, i gave up on the mf. I run full boss tour every day, and play every dungeon all the paths beaides arah and TA aether path. And for a month i have been struggling to make myself a minstrel aka the cheapest legendary that’s not water type. That’s right. Struggling. Collecting mats is a nightmare and i still have to grind gold for precursor and 100 icy runestones. It saddnes me.
Now i know many of you will say WELL NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO MAKE IT! But isn’t it sad that a veteran player is unable to make the cheapest legendary? And the most expensive thing that droped me is a mini that was worth 30 gold at the time? So sad.
I used to enjoy fractals, but now since i’m grinding for gold i can’t afford to play it due to time and rewards in there. Sad.
If they improve the RNG in game then less people will take to buying gems so they can buy stuff directly from the tp rather than waiting..