Guild Wars 2

This game focuses too much on loot and not enough as an actual combat/rpg game.

The amount of times I’ll get kicked from PUGs for not playing meta builds, not because I can’t play or don’t deal damage, but because I’m not optimized, therefor I ‘waste their time’… their time to… GAIN LOOT.

Your game needs a combat revamp or just move on to GW3.

GW2 casino is starting to unveil itself from the folds and clearly (from reading countless of other threads), I’m not the only one.

Cheers, Anet. Best of luck.

This is a gw2 only problem? I could have sworn other games also kick for low dps/healing in their dungeons where it slowed down their dungeon runs (and getting loot). In each case it’s the players making and enforcing these rules, not the game.

(The gw2 players kicked for people being non meta in dungeons also back before HoT).

So…create your own PUG? Problem solved.

Blackmoon.6837:

This game focuses too much on loot and not enough as an actual combat/rpg game.

On the contrary, I don’t have to think at all about loot if I don’t want to; we get stuff for nearly anything except sneezing and chatting on the forums.

Blackmoon.6837:

The amount of times I’ll get kicked from PUGs for not playing meta builds, not because I can’t play or don’t deal damage,

How would folks know if you can play or can deal damage if you join with a non-meta build? There’s a small minority who don’t want to wait to see if you can or can’t. Near as I can tell, that takes place in every MMO, at some level.

In this game, it’s largely limited to Raids, less frequently in fractals, and hardly at all these days for dungeons.

Blackmoon.6837:

but because I’m not optimized, therefor I ‘waste their time’… their time to… GAIN LOOT.

People are busy. Do you like to have your time wasted? It might not have anything to do with loot.

Blackmoon.6837:

Your game needs a combat revamp or just move on to GW3.

How would revamping combat change that? If it becomes harder, then people are more likely to kick. If it becomes easier, then a lot of folks will stop playing — loot alone isn’t enough to keep a strong player base.

Blackmoon.6837:

GW2 casino is starting to unveil itself from the folds and clearly (from reading countless of other threads),

The what?

Blackmoon.6837:

I’m not the only one.

No matter the opinion, there are always people who share it. That doesn’t mean it’s a majority opinion or that it’s something that the company ought to worry about it.

More importantly, you haven’t actually offered any concrete critiques (let alone suggestions) for what you would like to see changed. I’m sorry you got kicked, but how would changing combat affect that?

Blackmoon.6837:

Cheers, Anet. Best of luck.

Hope you find what you’re looking for in your next game.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

On the contrary, I don’t have to think at all about loot if I don’t want to; we get stuff for nearly anything except sneezing and chatting on the forums.

Here I thought blindness only went so far.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

How would folks know if you can play or can deal damage if you join with a non-meta build? There’s a small minority who don’t want to wait to see if you can or can’t. Near as I can tell, that takes place in every MMO, at some level.

In this game, it’s largely limited to Raids, less frequently in fractals, and hardly at all these days for dungeons.

I wish I had your luck.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

People are busy. Do you like to have your time wasted? It might not have anything to do with loot.

I’ve wasted an enormous amount of time in video games, irony aside. Lots of that time has been with games that I’ve been willing to sacrifice the waste of time because the game play was actually THAT GOOD.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

How would revamping combat change that? If it becomes harder, then people are more likely to kick. If it becomes easier, then a lot of folks will stop playing — loot alone isn’t enough to keep a strong player base.

This is actually a perfect note to end on. How determental it is to your argument, failing to realize the beauty of impactful and meaningful combat, games with enough stunning visuals & thrilling game play – people keep coming back regardless of the thousands of hours they spent playing or the hundreds of times they’ve achieved maximum loot gain. From JPRGs to FPS, the titles are out there – setting prime examples of how to make games where people are soaked in without loot even being a factor.

Unfortunate, fanboys always know how to defeat hard criticisms. At least it’s not through hard consciousness.

I wonder, are there that many games that specialize in combat where there isn’t a meta that’s enforced by the players? Are there any such games (without fixed stats) at all without a meta?

A list of these games would be interesting to look over.

If I played GW2 for the loot, I would have quit during the first week. I play because I enjoy the combat, and the exploration, and the community. All the same, there are plenty of things that ANet has done poorly. And I mostly don’t care, because I still enjoy the stuff that they did well.

The OP seems to have those proportions reversed, which is a shame. So since the OP wants things to change, it would be great if they could explain what it is that is interfering with their ability to enjoy the good stuff.

I thought there were several threads about the lack of loot, or good loot, anyway.

Of course, there is that one about too much loot; bit of an oddity there.

So…is this one lamenting the lack of loot, or too much loot. All I can ascertain is that the OP is not creating his own groups, and doesn’t fit the requirements of the groups he/she joins.

Or find some friends who play the way you do, or a casual guild. It’s not that hard. Or start your own LFG. The loot isn’t the problem, the problem is people. You can’t change human nature. The same stuff happened to me in Guild Wars 1.

The OP has made his complaint but he hasn’t suggested a remedy (besides combat revamp).

So, what sort of combat revamp would remove the meta? Removing all stats and traits and making each profession have one and only one build? Because off hand I can’t think of a way to have variable stats and traits without one build being better in a situation and becoming the meta.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So…create your own PUG? Problem solved.

That does not always solve he problem as, somewhat surprisingly, you can LFG people into your “chilled out” looting party and then get kicked by them if they have the majority. A strange design decision imho.

DoctorDing.5890:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So…create your own PUG? Problem solved.

That does not always solve he problem as, somewhat surprisingly, you can LFG people into your “chilled out” looting party and then get kicked by them if they have the majority. A strange design decision imho.

It’s this way because it’s a solution to earlier problems when groups had leaders. If the leader dc’d or left the whole party was kicked. Or some abused the lead position by getting partway into a dungeon then going afk. They were immune to a kick and the rest of the group either had to 4 man the content or leave party and try again.

ANet solves one problem and people create another from the solution.

The whole premise of this thread is wrong because the loot in this game is mostly just disguised currency. I think the OP means character build, in which case they are being kicked (?) For a bad equipment or skill setup, or dare I say… player skill?

IDK, fully functional exotic gear is cheap as chips these days and I can’t see any reason why you would have difficulty obtaining it.

You does damage but just not good enough. It is a harsh world.

MMO’s focus on loot because that’s what players demand. As long as that focus is there, there’s going to be exclusion based on optimization. I get why you’re not happy about it, but blaming GW2 is silly.

If you want to blame someone or something for the fixation of players on loot, you need to go further back than just GW2. The root of this behavior (in games) goes back to pen and paper D&D, and maybe further. I remember one situation wherein a player was killed. The DM was still in the midst of spouting flavor-text about how the “noble warrior” was falling to the ground. The player whose character was next to the now-dead character interrupts the DM with, “Too bad! I search the body.”

Don’t join those kind of groups? Works out pretty well for me.

On the other hand you might have a higher risk of running into the other end of the spectrum where people don’t know what the heck they are doing.

This is a human nature thing, which is a bit difficult to control as a game developer. It applies to both meta builds and loot systems.

As long as there is a goal or reward for an activity, there will be participants for whom the end is more important than the means.

I was part of a swamp fractal group that took about an hour to kill Bloom Hunger the other week. We eventually took him down and it was quite the celebratory moment. I tend to enjoy overcoming ridiculous odds for the joy of it over loot, but I do understand the perspective of those who just want to get it done.

My advice OP would be to start your own groups (where possible) and specifically advertise that non-meta builds are welcome. You’ll find players who want to have fun over anything else, and let’s face it: playing with those kinds of players tends to be worth the wait.

nosleepdemon.1368:

I was part of a swamp fractal group that took about an hour to kill Bloom Hunger the other week. We eventually took him down and it was quite the celebratory moment. I tend to enjoy overcoming ridiculous odds for the joy of it over loot, but I do understand the perspective of those who just want to get it done.

That seems to be missing an important point. Challenges presented by the game(developers) aren’t treated the same was as challenges as a result of lackluster teammates.

Khisanth.2948:

nosleepdemon.1368:

I was part of a swamp fractal group that took about an hour to kill Bloom Hunger the other week. We eventually took him down and it was quite the celebratory moment. I tend to enjoy overcoming ridiculous odds for the joy of it over loot, but I do understand the perspective of those who just want to get it done.

That seems to be missing an important point. Challenges presented by the game(developers) aren’t treated the same was as challenges as a result of lackluster teammates.

Have you killed Bloom Hunger? It’s not exactly taxing…

nosleepdemon.1368:

Khisanth.2948:

nosleepdemon.1368:

I was part of a swamp fractal group that took about an hour to kill Bloom Hunger the other week. We eventually took him down and it was quite the celebratory moment. I tend to enjoy overcoming ridiculous odds for the joy of it over loot, but I do understand the perspective of those who just want to get it done.

That seems to be missing an important point. Challenges presented by the game(developers) aren’t treated the same was as challenges as a result of lackluster teammates.

Have you killed Bloom Hunger? It’s not exactly taxing…

It’s not but having all the challenge come from someone screwing up constantly isn’t all that interesting either.

Constantly, sure. But few people screw up constantly. At the end of that fight, although it took ages, a couple of people had a much better grasp on how to beat that fractal.

and would you want to do that every time you ran swamp?

To be honest, I vastly prefer that to groups that quit after the first couple of failures. Like I said, I understand why many players are in it to get whatever it is, done as efficiently as possible. But that’s not how I roll. I rarely, if ever quit a group because someone’s playstyle doesn’t reflect the current metagame, or because they are a bad player. Afterall, everyone was new once. In fact, most of the time when someone makes a mistake repeatedly it’s because they haven’t done that content before, but are too afraid to admit it. You’d be surprised at how quickly groups acclimate to the Social Akwardness debuff once you tell them what it actually does, for example.

ya’re definitely a leecher. ya don’t want to make effort or contribute efficiently to the team and want people to take ya in? if ya want to leech then make yer own group of leechers that invest only in their “favorite” gameplay.

Riiight. Because contributing efficiently to the team is such an investment of skill and resources :P If anything, being non-meta would require a player to play harder, since by definition, their build is sub-optimal in terms of performance. They have to make up for that with skill, or get kicked out. My impression from the OP is that they wanted to at least be given the chance to try, which seems fair enough.

With that said, I’ve rarely encountered groups that perform gear checks in my travels through the Fractals. Im at level 75 now, and what people desire most of all is for group members to understand social flipping awkwardness and break bars… You’d think that wouldn’t be a problem at this point…

I sort of know where OP is coming from and sort of… not. He thinks a more action-oriented combat system that feels amazing (like in Black Desert) would make people less inclined to care about how fast or efficient the group gets through the encounter because they are in it for the combat, not the rewards.

You say you get kicked because you don’t run the current meta build for your class and possibly the best food. But how would the group even know? Unless you screw up multiple times and evidently don’t know what you’re doing I can’t see how you’re constantly being kicked.

Tryhard Pants.9745:

…But how would the group even know? …

I run GW/Staff as Mesmer. It’s all I ever run (I find it somewhat fun to play).

Blackmoon.6837:

Tryhard Pants.9745:

…But how would the group even know? …

I run GW/Staff as Mesmer. It’s all I ever run (I find it somewhat fun to play).

I’m sorry, I get that elitism can take a toll on people and often others overreact and non meta builds can pull their weight in most content if played properly.

As mesmer main I take offence to your weapon choice though and then complaining that people kick you.

You are literally playing probably one of THE most useless combos of class and weapon choice for pve content possible (it might even be the most useless pve combination).

First off, GS. Absolutely useless as far as group content goes. Okay you need a range weapon because pure melee can be tough, been there done that.

Then you also use staff? Wow…

So to summerise:

- you neither bring damage because mesmer is probably the worst damage class in game at the moment and certainly not with those 2 weapons

AND

- you do not provide a useful amount of quickness uptime and cc bar break because that would require you to take a shield as chrono

AND

- you provide no swiftness, reflects or npc repositioning (all focus)

Yeah sorry, I can fully understand every person who decides to exchange you in their group composition. I could understand complaints when 1 or maybe 2 of those points are a concern, but all 3…

The amount of times I’ll get kicked from PUGs for not playing meta builds, not because I can’t play or don’t deal damage, but because I’m not optimized, therefor I ‘waste their time’… their time to… GAIN LOOT.

There is a huge difference between a build which isn’t fully optimized and an ineffective build, for the use of a better word. Moving on to another game or revamping the combat system is not going to make a bad build any better.
You seem upset that something you enjoy personally isn’t as accepted as you’d like. Understandable, all though it wouldn’t be any different in any other game.

This is actually a perfect note to end on. How determental it is to your argument, failing to realize the beauty of impactful and meaningful combat, games with enough stunning visuals & thrilling game play – people keep coming back regardless of the thousands of hours they spent playing or the hundreds of times they’ve achieved maximum loot gain. From JPRGs to FPS, the titles are out there – setting prime examples of how to make games where people are soaked in without loot even being a factor.

Unfortunate, fanboys always know how to defeat hard criticisms. At least it’s not through hard consciousness.

With that smug and high above everyone else attitude of yours one has to wonder whether you aren’t simply disagreeing with people for the sake of disagreeing with people.

Best of luck with any future game you are going to pick up. The fault certainly isn’t with you but the game designers.

Blackmoon.6837:

The amount of times I’ll get kicked from PUGs for not playing meta builds, not because I can’t play or don’t deal damage, but because I’m not optimized, therefor I ‘waste their time’… their time to… GAIN LOOT.

This has to do with your build not your loot. People want to do content which can’t be done with people who’s builds aren’t useful in their opinion. In order to play and succeed they want to play with people whose setup will help them, not hold them back. The reason they’re playing is subjective and different for many people, to assume its for loot is just generalising things about people you shouldn’t. I would votekick someone without enough ar to do 100cm or someone without fullasc/useful build in raids as to give everyone the best chance we can get – NOT because of loot but because I want to succeed but to assume that others think the same is the problem, not loot.

That being said Loot in its own right is an issue of sorts, it is very volatile in nature – you get a crazy rare drop or you get a trash spike or whatever, its either amazing or its crappy which makes getting a roll of crappy loot feel bad because theres a lack of middle ground to say that oh I didn’t get X but at least I got this instead, much of the game feels like it lacks that middle ground loot imo – but thats a different topic entirely.