Guild Wars 2

I want to be making my own builds myself, and customizing it to my favorite playstyle, not just copying apparently really OP builds that everybody else uses. I for this reason hope that the new trait system makes traiting what it is supposed to be: creating your own builds. If you were supposed to just choose from a limited set of OP builds, you would just select a button on the game for the build you wanted to use. But that’s not how it works, and the whole idea of a trait system is that you are meant to use it for your own playstyle. Does anyone agree with me?

So how, exactly, are builds OP just because they’re the meta?

I have never run meta builds, unless I discover them myself that is. I prefer to do the experimental thing, trying to see what works. Then again I have always had a problem with people telling me what to do. I have builds that although not meta are fun for me and after all in a game is that not more important? I generally don’t bother with dungeons or fractals so it don’t bloody matter to other players anyways.

Fermi.2409:

So how, exactly, are builds OP just because they’re the meta?

Generally speaking, if something is the best, the most desireable, etc it’s most likely that way because it’s more powerful then other options. (OP vs brokenly OP is debatable of course)

As far as play style, I always prefer to run my own builds that I enjoy playing, I do of course have the old zerker meta gear for those rare occasions where I’m in the mood to face roll.

inch.3769:

[snip] But that’s not how it works, and the whole idea of a trait system is that you are meant to use it for your own playstyle. Does anyone agree with me?

No, i dont agree, the trait system is to adapt to the situation you are in and overcome it.
Using the same build for PVE/SPVP/WvW may put you in disavantage.
The META is just the most efficient way to acomplish a goal in said contexts.
Luckily Gw2 does not force you to do one or another, so you can find like-minded individuals to acomplish the goal the way you seem fit.
Now, as i understand, if your going to go for group content and dont want to converge to the people there, that may have frustrating results.
Kisses and GL
/Bingo.

Yeah, meta builds aren’t really all that important unless you’re either in the highest ranks of PvP or run dungeon groups that are completely obsessed with (completely unfun, IMHO) Dungeon Speed Running.

I’m in a T2 WvWvW server, and I don’t run any meta builds (unless I stumbled upon them accidentally, like I did with my Ranger). That being said, I can usually hold my own in a 1v1 (oddly enough, hardest to do on my “meta” Ranger) or in a zerg fight.

Play how you want, and adjust what doesn’t work. It’s not fun if you just chase the meta.

Miku.6297:

Fermi.2409:

So how, exactly, are builds OP just because they’re the meta?

Generally speaking, if something is the best, the most desireable, etc it’s most likely that way because it’s more powerful then other options. (OP vs brokenly OP is debatable of course)

Just because something is the best option doesn’t make it overpowered. That’s a ridiculous thought.

Something could be meta because it’s OP, but not the other way around.

It’s not fun if you just chase the meta

Speak for yourself, I enjoy contributing as much as I can

The new specialization system allows you to run whatever build you want within your playstyle. The old trait system did the same thing too. I don’t see what the complaint is here?

NikeEU.7690:

The new specialization system allows you to run whatever build you want within your playstyle. The old trait system did the same thing too. I don’t see what the complaint is here?

For me, the issue was never with the traits per se, it was that the gulf between the effectiveness of Zerker/Assassin Direct Damage builds and Condition or Support Builds was always too wide. I think that this patch did wonders to bridge the divide and put alternative builds on more equal footing.

The question has never been “choice.” It was always been whether that choice was between a variety of similarly effective playstyles or being effective or ineffective.

Fermi.2409:

Just because something is the best option doesn’t make it overpowered. That’s a ridiculous thought.

Something could be meta because it’s OP, but not the other way around.

Very true!

Fermi.2409:

It’s not fun if you just chase the meta

Speak for yourself, I enjoy contributing as much as I can

The meta build isn’t always contributing the most unless it’s noticeably overpowered, because builds don’t exist in a vacuum. The most optimal builds may rely on other builds with them, for example, and an optimal build for one content isn’t for another.

I mean, you know this, MetaBattle covers it well – most group-oriented builds have some “If X then Y” build elements – but it does get overlooked a lot.

Also, if the meta isn’t overpowered at all, the difference in contribution between “meta” and a merely solid build is likely to be single-digit percent (easily eclipsed by skill, lag, gear, etc.). So there’s that.

You could always make and play your own build. Currently clearing dungeons with 4 people in the same time it used to take us with 5, and we are mixing and matching all kinds of builds. So I’m sure some “meta” builds will emerge, but I think Anet has done a fair job of allowing more diversity. The only people who care are dungeon/fractal speed runners, organized pvpgroups, and wvw guild groups, and if you’re playing with those you probably care too.

Fermi.2409:

Just because something is the best option doesn’t make it overpowered. That’s a ridiculous thought.

Something could be meta because it’s OP, but not the other way around.

Why is it the best option? If it’s not because it’s the most powerful choice….

Though lets face it… If you “need” a meta build to clear something in GW2, you may want to look at more then just the build.

Miku.6297:

Fermi.2409:

Just because something is the best option doesn’t make it overpowered. That’s a ridiculous thought.

Something could be meta because it’s OP, but not the other way around.

Why is it the best option? If it’s not because it’s the most powerful choice….

Though lets face it… If you “need” a meta build to clear something in GW2, you may want to look at more then just the build.

P127 80s zerk only noob

(Secretly joins with valkyrie)

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

P127 80s zerk only noob

(Secretly joins with valkyrie)

LoL good old days~~ (secretly joins with MF gear)

Miku.6297:

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

P127 80s zerk only noob

(Secretly joins with valkyrie)

LoL good old days~~ (secretly joins with MF gear)

But of course. I have a set of zerks just hanging out in my invetory.

“Ping gear zerks only”

-pings dusty zerks in bottom of invetory- Here ya go meta lord. Let’s do this dungeon and go our separate ways.

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

Miku.6297:

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

P127 80s zerk only noob

(Secretly joins with valkyrie)

LoL good old days~~ (secretly joins with MF gear)

But of course. I have a set of zerks just hanging out in my invetory.

“Ping gear zerks only”

-pings dusty zerks in bottom of invetory- Here ya go meta lord. Let’s do this dungeon and go our separate ways.

Haha, yeah, I mean you could just join or start your own non meta group and not be a total jerk but sticking it to the mean old meta man is just so cool.

Fenrir.3609:

Haha, yeah, I mean you could just join or start your own non meta group and not be a total jerk but sticking it to the mean old meta man is just so cool.

LoL erm sorry, sarcasm went totally undetected :P

Lack of customization with the new system.

i dont like metabuild. i never run metabuilds. i find more funny make my build and try.

heh and they ban me A-net.

Personally, I find that I am logging in less this week because I can’t be bothered playing with the builds right now. I have done enough theorycrafting throughout my time in GW2, I just can’t be bothered to do it again.

Not sure what exactly the issue is, but I log in, take one look at the characters I will have to relearn how to tweak, play, possibly re-gear, and deal with so many bugs that I say, “Blah. Back to Fallout 3 and New Vegas”.

So, to answer the OP, I’m just waiting until metabattle gets a consensus – then I’ll see if that piques my interest again.

this “new” system we have greatly limits choice for builds and further encourages the use of “meta” builds.

each trait line has 1 of 3 to choose per tier with 3 base line traits when picked.

of those traits most of them have very high synergy with another line leading to even less choice and more “take this trait from line X to use with this trait in line Y to have this super mega synergy / effect”

so in short meta builds are now amplified and made even more effective with the greatly dumbed down more simple trait system that removes builds that used to use 3-4 trait lines into max 3.

My thought on meta: I spent the better part of 2 years fighting the meta instead of embracing it. I came to realize that the meta exists because many players not just believe it to be the best but test that belief to back it up. They find out their belief is true.

Play as you want is generally a fine mantra for Guildwars 2. In PVE you can blend into the group and get carried by it. Your contribution is 1/50th of the group for world bosses. Its 1/5th of a group for dungeons but the AI is always the same so there is a lot of leeway for your build.

In WvW play as you want only works when your server has significant numbers advantage over the others. Your ranger will hold his own when his contribution is 1/60th of the group. You can run anything at that point. Your group’s numbers are all that matter.

In SPVP if you play practice or solo queue you can play what you want. You’re only hurting yourself (and maybe your team) if you run a suboptimal build.

Heh suboptimal. The meta decides what optimal is and anything not that is sub optimal. That’s all its about. In most of GW2’s situations you can get away with sub-optimal builds. Its the places where you can’t get away with that where you get hated for not being meta. There are 3 places:

PvE: speed runs. If you’re going to join a speed run group you need to be as optimal as possible. If you don’t want to be optimal like that running meta then make your own group and run as you want. These players made their own group and demanded that their group have the best optimal setup for running a dungeon as fast as possible.

PvP: Group ranked play. Some groups want to boost their ranks and don’t want some ele on some super experimental scepter/focus build. That build is untested and to them a weakness the enemy can exploit to get victory. It’s a slot on their team that is underutilized for the sake of “freedom of choice”.

WvW: Squad raid and GvG.
This is where i’ve been fighting then embracing the meta. The same principle applies as from the spvp group. If a player is refusing to run an optimal character build then the slot they take in the raid is under-utilized for the sake of “freedom of choice”. The raid wants to utilize a specific set of tactics which includes for example:
Guardian frontline with hammer lockdown
Necromancer/Ele midline for heavy AOEs, and Eles for recovery phase
1 mesmer for veil tactics and some thieves to pick off the enemy backline.

In this case a ranger is not an optimal slot fill. Any non -meta guardian, ele, necro build is not an optimal slot fill. Here the number of slots you have is limited by what your guild turnout is rather than hard cap from the game mode. Deviation from the meta detracts from the power your raid brings to wvw. This lack of power means you’ll wipe more frequently. This in turn leads to lower turnout. It’s a self reinforcing negative outcome caused in part by the very freedom they want to bring to the small squad raid. The outcome is otherwise influenced by how much pvp experience the guild gets and how strong the opposition is.

I’ve had to bite my tongue on this with my guilds for so long kitten many of them don’t understand why the meta for wvw is a certain way. Some simply refuse to run it for the sake of their freedom of choice. Whenever I tried to invent a strategy for my guild I’ve hand players nearly revolt for it.

I thus drive raids knowing I’ll never get my guild to attain the power it could bring. The frustration mounts every time my guild wipes to an enemy raid that does embrace the meta. Night after night I drive a herd of cats that don’t want to give the meta or my strategies for them the time of day. Getting the kittens all on teamspeak is ridiculously hard for some reason. And yet they show up and expect me to lead them to victory.

To the end of this idea I say this:
I can lead you to the victory but you have to want to win in order to seize it. This means realizing that 1000 theorycrafters vetting builds will produce a more solid build than your 2 hours of tinkering on your character page and accepting the meta. This means getting into teamspeak so I can drive the raid efficiently, rather than having to type everything out. It takes 2 seconds to say something in teamspeak that would take 15 seconds to type out not counting spelling and grammar mistakes. This also means getting some pvp practice in and showing up to training sessions.

/soapbox

The meta is about efficiency in a competitive environment. If you choose not to accept the meta thats your choice. Run with like minded people. If you choose to accept the meta that’s your choice. Run with like minded people. If you choose not to accept the meta and try to force that on a group that accepts it then expect drama, and the other way around. If you choose not to accept the meta in a situation that requires you to don’t expect to win.

inch.3769:

I want to be making my own builds myself, and customizing it to my favorite playstyle, not just copying apparently really OP builds that everybody else uses. I for this reason hope that the new trait system makes traiting what it is supposed to be: creating your own builds. If you were supposed to just choose from a limited set of OP builds, you would just select a button on the game for the build you wanted to use. But that’s not how it works, and the whole idea of a trait system is that you are meant to use it for your own playstyle. Does anyone agree with me?

I dissagree with you.

I mean, i agree in that you can runwith whatever build you want, but i fail to see the reason behind your post. Nobody forces you to select the meta build.

inch.3769:

I want to be making my own builds myself, and customizing it to my favorite playstyle, not just copying apparently really OP builds that everybody else uses. I for this reason hope that the new trait system makes traiting what it is supposed to be: creating your own builds. If you were supposed to just choose from a limited set of OP builds, you would just select a button on the game for the build you wanted to use. But that’s not how it works, and the whole idea of a trait system is that you are meant to use it for your own playstyle. Does anyone agree with me?

You can play whatever you want. If you want to run with the meta crowd run a meta build. If you want to run whatever build you want play with people that are fine with that. Simple.

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

Miku.6297:

Fluff Kamisama.3417:

P127 80s zerk only noob

(Secretly joins with valkyrie)

LoL good old days~~ (secretly joins with MF gear)

But of course. I have a set of zerks just hanging out in my invetory.

“Ping gear zerks only”

-pings dusty zerks in bottom of invetory- Here ya go meta lord. Let’s do this dungeon and go our separate ways.

I loved people like you that snuck into dungeon runs. Kicking after finding someone out was always fun.
Protip: you can tell what gear people are running by how much damage they take and by how fast the bosses die.

Pretty easy to spot a non-zerker in a zerker party if you know how to look for them. And I personally make a point of finding them.

The thread title is misleading.

Regardless, the current system is limiting the possible build choices to a very finite set in comparison to the old system. I’m very much in favor of the new unlock method, and I’m kind of OK with the removal of stat points from trait lines. Less choice, though, is less choice. For example, Engie Flamethrower was not really a meta build before, afaik. It seems weaker now, although I’ve yet to try it with Sinister gear to compensate for the loss of Deadly Mixture and the reduction of baseline Condi damage from the burning. No way I’m investing in gear until the balance issues with condi damage get ironed out and I can evaluate its worth.