Guild Wars 2

Healing signet is the highest heal in the game. In terms of HPS it outpaces every other heal out there. Even if you used every class’s heal on cooldown whether you need it at that moment or not, Healing Signet would be higher health returns.

It’s a completely broken heal and it’s kinda hilarious how they took a sledgehammer to signet of restoration for the ele’s yet turned the warrior signet into a much better version of it.

My thief in a survival/dps mix of gear feels squishier than my warrior in full glass cannon gear. Warriors can easily get away with it, as they are a bit over the top in class balance imo.

Lord Kuru.3685:

coglin.1867:

The problem I have with zerker gear, is that everyone keeps preaching it, Yet I do not wear it, and notice the amount of damage the group loses from “me do um big leet damage” being downed. Then we lose more damage as I have to stop and get them up.

Have you considered that they get downed because you’re causing the fights to drag out longer than they should due to your sacrificing damage for defense?

Have you considered that they getdowned because you’re causing the fights to fail due to your sacrificing defense for damage?
If you want to pigeonhole non zerkers, you must realize that you are pigeonholing yourself.
I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff NOW. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

phys.7689:

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

Actually, you should be comparing the Armor attribute (Defense plus Toughness) not base armor. With no additional toughness, at L80, that would be:

Ele: 920 + 916 = 1836.
Warr/Guard: 1211 + 916 = 2127.

The actual difference in mitigation is more like 14%.

Raine.1394:

Yes, a thief will bleed out near instantaneously, while a warrior will take a few seconds depending on the mobs focusing him. It’s surprising how fast a warrior goes down under the right (well, wrong, actually) circumstances in full berserker.

What I find more surprising is how quickly a full toughness/vitality spec goes down under those wrong circumstances.

Sligh.2789:

I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

I play zerker for the challenge.

Also its better.

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

Actually, you should be comparing the Armor attribute (Defense plus Toughness) not base armor. With no additional toughness, at L80, that would be:

Ele: 920 + 916 = 1836.
Warr/Guard: 1211 + 916 = 2127.

The actual difference in mitigation is more like 14%.

Raine.1394:

Yes, a thief will bleed out near instantaneously, while a warrior will take a few seconds depending on the mobs focusing him. It’s surprising how fast a warrior goes down under the right (well, wrong, actually) circumstances in full berserker.

What I find more surprising is how quickly a full toughness/vitality spec goes down under those wrong circumstances.

ah you re right. 14% is more accurate.

Sligh.2789:

I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff NOW. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

You’re telling me that all this time I haven’t been playing the game? If you don’t call speed running playing, then what do you call TP flipping?

Sligh.2789:

Lord Kuru.3685:

coglin.1867:

The problem I have with zerker gear, is that everyone keeps preaching it, Yet I do not wear it, and notice the amount of damage the group loses from “me do um big leet damage” being downed. Then we lose more damage as I have to stop and get them up.

Have you considered that they get downed because you’re causing the fights to drag out longer than they should due to your sacrificing damage for defense?

Have you considered that they getdowned because you’re causing the fights to fail due to your sacrificing defense for damage?
If you want to pigeonhole non zerkers, you must realize that you are pigeonholing yourself.
I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff NOW. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

thing is the game has long term goals, after doing it a few times, people will try to make it faster as they get better. Zerker is currently the main means of increasing speed.

the enemy not having a chance is probably an encounter/ai design problem, but not sure if people really want it solved (people dont really like losing)

the other part is to make more stats effect skill effectiveness/potency. very few skills are effected by anything but dmg, hence a zerker with the same utilities and traits is probably almost as survivable as other gear sets, but it does a lot more dmg.

Yenn.9185:

Sligh.2789:

I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff NOW. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

You’re telling me that all this time I haven’t been playing the game? If you don’t call speed running playing, then what do you call TP flipping?

I have played a few dungeons with the zerker build, and stopped because there was no fun at all, although it was nice to get the payday so fast without any thought at all. I have flipped a few items and been successful on the TP, but again, it took time away from playing the game, and it really is not a banking game, I play Monopoly for that. I have leveled 8 80’s, and all with different motives and thought. Yes I am more of a Roleplaying type, but not hardcore.
In GW1 I ran Slavers many many times and received 28 Voltaic Spears, but by that time I had done everything else, and I could do it while commiserating with friends made in game. There is so much more to do in GW2 even after a year of playing that, for me, it will be years before I get to the point of relying on one path to talk to friends. Right now there are a billion paths to keep me busy and satiated until then.

Edit: I forgot to mention the last dungeon I was in, I forgot to change my gear, and I took the Champ down wile the berserkers laid on the ground telling me how bad I was for not running zerker. I actually was able to respond by telling them what I said above, maybe they were throttling me by sacrificing survivability for extra damage. It took me a long time, but I finished the champ by myself just to shut them up, and can you believe it, they stayed till the end, and just logged off, not even a “good job” from any of them.

I won`t read all the posts and either argument about theory craft in deep becase this was talked a lot of times… I’ll just say, Im runing every day Fractal lvl 48 with my thief and my warrior since months ago, and both are absolutely full berserker oriented (traits & gear). And believe, even if i sound like an arrogant kitten, you would love to get me in your party.

All you need in the current PvE meta is damage and a proper use of dodges/evasions/support SKILLS. The survivality tools are mainly at the proper use of the basic skills and not in the gear stats. I would rather this not be true, but it is.

See you

Yonarq.1072:

I won`t read all the posts and either argument about theory craft in deep becase this was talked a lot of times… I’ll just say, Im runing every day Fractal lvl 48 with my thief and my warrior since months ago, and both are absolutely full berserker oriented (traits & gear). And believe, even if i sound like an arrogant kitten, you would love to get me in your party.

All you need in the current PvE meta is damage and a proper use of dodges/evasions/support SKILLS. The survivality tools are mainly at the proper use of the basic skills and not in the gear stats. I would rather this not be true, but it is.

See you

So have you mastered that run in any other gear or set of tactics? If you are limited in your scope of play and tactics, you are someone that I would prefer not to play with, because when a wrench is thrown into your style of play, you will have no clue what to do. Just sayin.

Don’t juzge me so early because yes, i mastered first the run as a warrior shouter/baners, and a thief as a condition damager…then i made the jump to zerk and realized the truth: Zerker is just a better way if you allready learned and understood how the game works.

Keep in mind im talking from the scope about eficiency. If you enjoy another tactic its ok to me. Hell, i even never complain about what other players want to do or about their builds…im just a nice player who wont complain about what people do to enjoy their gameplay.

PD: Sorry, english is not my mother language.

phys.7689:

the enemy not having a chance is probably an encounter/ai design problem, but not sure if people really want it solved (people dont really like losing)

Indeed.

Challenge in games is based on the idea that you can lose. The closer to ideal the player needs to play to win, the more challenge. When some people think of challenge in a game, they think of getting close to losing, not losing over and over until they perfect their play.

Yonarq.1072:

Don’t juzge me so early because yes, i mastered first the run as a warrior shouter/baners, and a thief as a condition damager…then i made the jump to zerk and realized the truth: Zerker is just a better way if you allready learned and understood how the game works.

Keep in mind im talking from the scope about eficiency. If you enjoy another tactic its ok to me. Hell, i even never complain about what other players want to do or about their builds…im just a nice player who wont complain about what people do to enjoy their gameplay.

PD: Sorry, english is not my mother language.

I try not to judge too quick, that is why I asked you the question I did. I realized the absurdity of the truth about the zerker. It is all in how you view that kind of skill eliminator. I find skill in adapting many different classes and their skill sets to defeating many different kinds of enemies. Personally, I find no skill increase by doing the same path over and over using the same skills over and over, and by using the same cheat/bypass moves used in dungeon paths over and over. I like Gold for sure, but if it isn’t a challenge to get it, it creates a pit in my stomach.

phys.7689:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

phys.7689:

The poster specifically asked about a certain armor set, when you evaluate the effectiveness of that set, he didnt ask if 1 specific build is as strong as another specific build.
He also is talking about PVE/Fractals, which means if you have been doing it awhile you switch your utilities and weapons based on what you need to do at the time.

Answering the OPs question, yes, warrior/guardian are considerably more survivable than thieves/ele when wearing berserker armor.

As to why that is the case, its because they have more effective health, more blocks, more mitigation IN ADDITION to their dodges, and dodge abilities.

Point is, classes are actually different and excel at different things, even with the same armor. I dont think you are really trying to say that a thief is as survivable in PVE as a warrior or guardian, so i dont even know why you re mad.

in HP alone, level 80 with base vit
10k thief versus 18warrior

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

these two alone = a lot less squishy.

guardian has a class mechanic which provides heal over time, and heal IN ADDITION to their heal skill,
they have 5 weaponskills which heal, 3 utilities, and 6 traits.

yes they are more survivable even while wearing berserker gear.

Base stats say little actually. It’s why Guardian HP is far from it’s EHP. If we strip the utilities and traits a Guard has and leaving his base stats unchanged, do you think he’ll still be as survivable?

I’m arguing the fact that you’ve used bad evidence to prove the survivabiltiy of the professions. It’s maddening because this is the reason why classes get unecessary nerfs and bad rep. Provide skills that the class may often use in those situations and you’ll have a better argument. Simply stating that they have these skills is not enough. Show the situations where they are used, and how often they are used. If by following the same way you presented evidence, I could say eles (squish squish) are survivable because they have a shield that blocks attacks and a 3 second mobile invun. It’s just not… Enough to prove much.

I could argue that, with enough skill, every class becomes near-equal in survivability (yes, even thieves.) but, yeah. Too hard for the average player to reach the point where they have internal clocks for every cooldown on every ele skill. So for all intents and purposes, Warriors and Guards survive better.

I do suggest OP to force himself to continue playing (or start playing) the squishy professions. It helps situational awareness and all that jazz.

you are paranoid of nerfs, i wasnt saying guardian or warrior is OP. im stating the fact that they are more survivable, and yes they were designed that way. They fully expect guardians and warriors to be able to survive a lot easier with more builds.

I’m not.

The way you argued their survivability is incomplete.

The community is tainted with people who haven’t learned enough. And it’s getting tiring to see QQ threads and posts about classes or their game mechanics that really aren’t OP at all.

And that’s what I’m concerned about, a misinformed community.

What I’m asking is that you provide the right evidence so that the community might have a better understanding of the class, not a worse stereotype of it. (The stereotype I’m talking about is uber-unkillable classes. Not the fact that they’re easier to survive in.)

Sligh.2789:

I try not to judge too quick, that is why I asked you the question I did. I realized the absurdity of the truth about the zerker. It is all in how you view that kind of skill eliminator. I find skill in adapting many different classes and their skill sets to defeating many different kinds of enemies. Personally, I find no skill increase by doing the same path over and over using the same skills over and over, and by using the same cheat/bypass moves used in dungeon paths over and over. I like Gold for sure, but if it isn’t a challenge to get it, it creates a pit in my stomach.

I can’t agree with you on one point. Running as zerker it doesn’t mean you won’t change your skills, traits or weapons while you go through a dungeon.

As a full zerker thief, im constantly changing my build depending of what will we face it “in the next room”. My thief has only 10K HP and it was very hard to me to master the run as him with mele weapons. Now that i finally mastered, I can promise you this: I really rarely get downed (sometimes, just like any other players with any other builds), i do an insane damage and it requires A LOT more concentration and skill from me. So at the end is more challenge so more fun too. Thats about thieves.

About warriors, in my exprience, if you focus your build in a more support/tanky/whatever thingy, it just take longer to go through…not more in deep tactics or skill required.

Can’t talk about other classes in FotM.

Paulytnz.7619:

For warrior I have noticed that their heals are a lot worse than other classes, this is probably to offset the extra armour they get. So in the end I think it all balances out.

It’s the larger health pool and the fact they can have 4 simultaneous regens going at the same time.

Protoavis.9107:

Paulytnz.7619:

For warrior I have noticed that their heals are a lot worse than other classes, this is probably to offset the extra armour they get. So in the end I think it all balances out.

It’s the larger health pool and the fact they can have 4 simultaneous regens going at the same time.

It doesn’t help that players like to frame their healing in terms of HP ratio. I rarely see a warrior talk about their “bad heals” in terms of raw healing numbers – it’s always about how their heals only refill 1/4-1/3 HP versus 1/2-2/3 that of their thief or ele alt, completely ignoring the HP disparity.

idk about you, but a thief with black powder gives god-like survibility to the team at fotm 48. as a zerker thief with 30ar on fotm48, i rarely die myself, too many dodges and disengages. at shaman, my thief clearly have easier time then my 80% time played warrior. in fact, my thief survive better at shaman then my warrior. both full zerker, ofc

and thief is generally more fun to play.

btw my zerker thief can face tank mobs in fotm48, can my zerker warrior do that? no lol

Oh also a thing i’ve always wanted to complain about when i was a zerker war
you don’t freaking save the team, your teams bad, you are done. with my thief i can quick engage burst kill or sr for revive or skip, bp for god like group survibility.

i still don’t know why people keep saying that thieves are bad in pve, i guess all they do is faceroll low level npcs in open world.

Cyricus.2981:

My thief in a survival/dps mix of gear feels squishier than my warrior in full glass cannon gear. Warriors can easily get away with it, as they are a bit over the top in class balance imo.

A warrior in zerk gear/build is almost equal to a Thief in full PVT and a survival build.

I used to play a thief, now I play warrior.

Lighter.5631:

idk about you, but a thief with black powder gives god-like survibility to the team at fotm 48. as a zerker thief with 30ar on fotm48, i rarely die myself, too many dodges and disengages. at shaman, my thief clearly have easier time then my 80% time played warrior. in fact, my thief survive better at shaman then my warrior. both full zerker, ofc

and thief is generally more fun to play.

btw my zerker thief can face tank mobs in fotm48, can my zerker warrior do that? no lol

Oh also a thing i’ve always wanted to complain about when i was a zerker war
you don’t freaking save the team, your teams bad, you are done. with my thief i can quick engage burst kill or sr for revive or skip, bp for god like group survibility.

i still don’t know why people keep saying that thieves are bad in pve, i guess all they do is faceroll low level npcs in open world.

And then you get the dredge fractal and your blinds are useless lol.