Guild Wars 2

Ok I know I am going to get a lot of hate respond from this topic but some 1 has to call it out and so I will. Also sorry for any bad spelling or bad grammar, English Is my second language

As every player know that now on days doing pve dungeon every one demands for a zerker class. Reason for this is because it aloud player’s to put so much damage that bosses get kill in just a matter of seconds

So how is this ruined the game?

Creates bad player’s :
since player can kill bosses so fast, they have no clue on how to avoid getting hit or aren’t used to the idea of avoiding damage that if they are in a group that cant down a boss under 20 sec they start dropping like fly’s and start blaming there death for the lack of dps not b/c they didn’t use there dodge when standing on the red circle

Shuns Classes:
I have play all classes to lvl 80 and I find none of them to have any dps issue , yes some class will do a bit more then other but no such a huge difference to call the class bad or unplayable but the zerker build works so good with a warrior and guardian far better then any other class because there classes is build to take on some damage before they have to pull back on the defencive making them the class of the month since the point of zerker build is to stand in 1 spot and burn the boss HP

Destroys game mechanics:
MMO RPG are all about learning mobs weakness and strength , always been about what is the best weapon or skill to use on a boss and learn what attack a boss does.
This game has all that but can be completely ignore since zerker build can dps the boss so fast that it doesn’t aloud the boss to do much.

So how to fix this?

here is a few basic idea

1) give diminishing returns to critical chances, there is a reason why no other MMO has made it possible for any class in the game to be able to critc on every hit , is to OP

2) Buff bosses HP, no boss should be dying under 20 sec make the fight last no less then 1min

again I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this but there has to be more ppl out there like me who would rather play with strategy then just hack and slash a boss , I mean there is D3 for that

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

Shockwave.1230:

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

You can watch videos on youtube where ppl stand on top of the boss and there HP never drops down or there dodge bar never goes down either

Luping whos is suppose to be the 1 of the strongest dungeon boss was kill in 40 sec with out any of the member’s getting hit with out the need of using dodge

Please no buff on enemy HP, that would only encourage zerker even more. Some bosses (like Golem Mk II and Caledon wurm) already have way too much HP when upscaled.

Enemies need to attack more often for less damage, need more interesting attacks (player skills like in GW1?) and need better AI. Currently enemies just stand there and let you waste them and throw out massive 1-hit-KO moves, which does nothing but encourage glassy builds.

As well, there’s little strategy required for taking out groups; rarely do you need to prioritize certain mobs. Remember in GW1 how you had to take out the healers first or they’d keep healing/rezzing the rest of the mob? The Aether/Molten/Toxic mobs have been a big step in the right direction on this front but we’re still not there yet. The lack of a trinity doesn’t help this.

The actual problem is that they game rewards bad play. If you die at an event because you fail to dodge things EVERY SINGLE TIME you are still rewarded the same as someone who performed flawlessly.

What they need is a sliding scale of reward.

As I suggested in another post in regards to the knights. Give players that get participation 1 chest.

Players that avoid getting hit by the boss mechanics get 3 bonus chests.

Players that get hit only once get 2 bonus chests.

Players that get hit 2-3 times get 1 bonus chest.

Players that get hit more get no bonus chest.

Now players are rewarded for skillful play.

Drakent.9605:

Shockwave.1230:

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

You can watch videos on youtube where ppl stand on top of the boss and there HP never drops down or there dodge bar never goes down either

Luping whos is suppose to be the 1 of the strongest dungeon boss was kill in 40 sec with out any of the member’s getting hit with out the need of using dodge

The Lupi videos you’re talking about use FGS, Reflects, and Blocks to prevent damage, reflect Lupi’s damage onto himself, and deal high DPS with Fiery Rush. This strategy will work regardless of armor type, it would just take about 2 minutes instead of 40 seconds with a PVT set.

[/quote]

The Lupi videos you’re talking about use FGS, Reflects, and Blocks to prevent damage, reflect Lupi’s damage onto himself, and deal high DPS with Fiery Rush. This strategy will work regardless of armor type, it would just take about 2 minutes instead of 40 seconds with a PVT set.[/quote]

And you just prove my point on how zerker ruin the game system, 40 sec fight make a huge difference between a 2min , does 40 sec aloud them to ignore all damage but in a 2min fight they would had to be avoiding the damage

In a 2min the wrong move would cost them a wipe but in 40 sec there isn’t enough time for the boss to do them much harm, even the guy in the video mention how they did a few screw up but still where able to down him quick . That’s how out of control the zerker build is

Drakent.9605:

The Lupi videos you’re talking about use FGS, Reflects, and Blocks to prevent damage, reflect Lupi’s damage onto himself, and deal high DPS with Fiery Rush. This strategy will work regardless of armor type, it would just take about 2 minutes instead of 40 seconds with a PVT set.

And you just prove my point on how zerker ruin the game system, 40 sec fight make a huge difference between a 2min , does 40 sec aloud them to ignore all damage but in a 2min fight they would had to be avoiding the damage

If you stand in 1 place for 40 seconds and don’t take damage, what’s the difference between those 40 seconds and 2 minutes? They just wouldn’t move for 2 minutes instead of 40 seconds.

Drakent.9605:

Shockwave.1230:

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

You can watch videos on youtube where ppl stand on top of the boss and there HP never drops down or there dodge bar never goes down either

Luping whos is suppose to be the 1 of the strongest dungeon boss was kill in 40 sec with out any of the member’s getting hit with out the need of using dodge

Lupicus, ironically enough, gets downed in 40 seconds usually because a mesmer properly times and uses Feedback, which is by design a DEFENSIVE skill.

Berzerker gear is not nearly the problem people want it to be.

chemiclord.3978:

Drakent.9605:

Shockwave.1230:

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

You can watch videos on youtube where ppl stand on top of the boss and there HP never drops down or there dodge bar never goes down either

Luping whos is suppose to be the 1 of the strongest dungeon boss was kill in 40 sec with out any of the member’s getting hit with out the need of using dodge

Lupicus, ironically enough, gets downed in 40 seconds usually because a mesmer properly times and uses Feedback, which is by design a DEFENSIVE skill.

Berzerker gear is not nearly the problem people want it to be.

Feedback has only a 6 duration is not going to make you invulnerable for the 40 sec.
the reason it was possible to down him in 40 sec was b.c the zerker build

Lupi is casually downed 45 seconds to 1 min, with a DPS team that uses ACTIVE defense. and knows how to dodge.

Current record for Lupi Kill is 7 seconds. I wont go into how many hours it took to pull of that ONE spike.

funny thing. for you to think on… that Kill was done with NO heavy classes (if i remember correctly)

Berzerker gear has not ruined anything. We as players got smarter and figured things out.

Drakent.9605:

chemiclord.3978:

Drakent.9605:

Shockwave.1230:

There are some enemies that zerker make die so quick you don’t have to avoid damage, but many Elites, Champions, and Legendaries you still have to avoid damage from, which is more punishing on zerkers if you don’t.

I would argue that zerker doesn’t make bad players, it makes better farmers.

Zerker will always be the optimal set as long as active defense trumps sustained defense.

You can watch videos on youtube where ppl stand on top of the boss and there HP never drops down or there dodge bar never goes down either

Luping whos is suppose to be the 1 of the strongest dungeon boss was kill in 40 sec with out any of the member’s getting hit with out the need of using dodge

Lupicus, ironically enough, gets downed in 40 seconds usually because a mesmer properly times and uses Feedback, which is by design a DEFENSIVE skill.

Berzerker gear is not nearly the problem people want it to be.

Feedback has only a 6 duration is not going to make you invulnerable for the 40 sec.
the reason it was possible to down him in 40 sec was b.c the zerker build

Feedback, Wall of Reflection, Dagger Storm, Phantasmal Warden, Distortion

Temporal Enchanter, Glamour Master, Warden’s Feedback, Masterful Reflection, Master of Consecrations

You can run multiple thieves, mesmers, guardians etc.

I think thats a problem with the NPC coding not people wearing berserker gear.

Drakent.9605:

Creates bad player’s :
since player can kill bosses so fast, they have no clue on how to avoid getting hit or aren’t used to the idea of avoiding damage that if they are in a group that cant down a boss under 20 sec they start dropping like fly’s and start blaming there death for the lack of dps not b/c they didn’t use there dodge when standing on the red circle

Those are bad players to begin with. I’ve dealt with slow kills before and I only use zerker in dungeons, and I infrequently go down. Any group that has at least two skilled players in it can be carried through almost any dungeon.

Drakent.9605:

Shuns Classes:
I have play all classes to lvl 80 and I find none of them to have any dps issue , yes some class will do a bit more then other but no such a huge difference to call the class bad or unplayable but the zerker build works so good with a warrior and guardian far better then any other class because there classes is build to take on some damage before they have to pull back on the defencive making them the class of the month since the point of zerker build is to stand in 1 spot and burn the boss HP

DPS builds are about saving time and killing things before they can kill you. All classes are capable of similar DPS and are chosen based on what utilities are needed in the dungeon/instance.

Drakent.9605:

Destroys game mechanics:
MMO RPG are all about learning mobs weakness and strength , always been about what is the best weapon or skill to use on a boss and learn what attack a boss does.
This game has all that but can be completely ignore since zerker build can dps the boss so fast that it doesn’t aloud the boss to do much.

Dungeons are a puzzle that have been figured out by the elite players so they can get away with going all out offense. All enemies have attacks that can be negated with reflections, blinds, aegis, evades, and/or stability.

Please, if you’re going to complain about something like the DPS Meta, at least learn how everything works.

The game’s ruined! Hear that everyone? It’s ruined! Stop having fun, the game’s over, it’s ruined! Better start looking for leaked data to find out when Guild Wars 3 comes out since 2 is ruined and we’re gonna have to start over.

More seriously, berserker gear is not a problem in and of itself. It doesn’t matter how you change the stats available on gear or how they interact; there will always be a build and gear set that maximizes dps and so long as players can manage to survive in that build and set, whatever problems you think there are will still be a problem.

You solution to give bosses more HP will not solve anything and may in fact make things worse. If bosses have even more HP, players will be even MORE inclined to build berserker so that the boss doesn’t take 30 min to kill.

There have been many much better suggestions in other threads about what could be done to increase optimal build diversity such as:
more passive unavoidable damage
bosses and enemies with more rapid attacks (so that they cannot all be dodged or blocked)
making defensive stats scale non-linearly in such a way as to make adding just a little increasing your survivability a lot but as you add more, the benefits of adding more slowly tapering off
adding more and different mechanics to boss fights that make the time to kill a boss not significantly varied depending on gear (like some boss that dies in 3 min to a zerk party but still dies in like 3 min 10 sec to a full cleric party)

But, many of these solutions are quite drastic, would take a long time and a lot of effort to implement and balance properly, and as young as this game is (in terms of the lifetime of an MMO and how long it usually seems to take for MMO development teams to get a great handle on how to solve its game’s particular systemic problems and difficulties) we should really give the developers more credit and more time to sort this stuff out.

Just take a look at the state that WoW was in after a year or so. There were SO MANY problems it was ridiculous. I don’t think they really sorted a lot of their issues until Cataclysm (their 3rd expansion). And they didn’t really fully fix the inherent problems with their traits until just before Mists of Pandaria. Really, I think traits are a bigger problem than anything about our gear system. ANet didn’t learn from Blizzard and hasn’t yet figured out that damage increase traits are not fun or interesting choices. I really hope they do.

zerker is not the problem not having holy trinity in the game IS the problem Geting ONE shoot from boss IS problem

Gele.2048:

zerker is not the problem not having holy trinity in the game IS the problem Geting ONE shoot from boss IS problem

List the bosses that one shot you, please.

The OP’s analysis of the problems is flawed, and so are the solutions offered. The real problems:

• Dungeons have been around since GW2 Day 1. It is now GW2 Day 569. Players who’ve been doing dungeons the whole time know the fights by heart. I remember when the dungeons were hard. As far as adding dungeon content, we’ve only gotten FotM. We’ve also gotten one dungeon revamp (after which some people once again complained it was too hard) and 1 replacement path for TA.

Solution: Add dungeons, revamp existing dungeons.

• People want a pick-up-group to provide them with the exact dungeon experience they desire. This is the height of insanity.

Solution: You can form organized groups that use strategy now. The videos you see links for in the dungeon sub-forums were made by such groups. Since they are the ones using the zerker meta, you’d have to find like-minded people who want to use something else to provide the sort of encounter you prefer.

• A call to nerf berserker setups will merely result in the meta switching to another setup. Groups will be no more inclined to accept any old setup than they are now.

Solution: Join a guild of the like-minded. Expecting random people using an LFG tool to not have their own agenda is silly.

• A call to make dungeon mechanics unfavorable to berserkers will result in followers of the meta needing to go through a learning curve to adapt. This will happen. What will also happen is that any non-meta groups that struggle now will struggle even more after the change.

Solution: If you want to make dungeons only doable by coordinated groups of skilled players — the way they were supposed to be — then have at it. Be aware, however, that that will mean fewer players will do them, and pugging will be negatively affected. If you think “zerk only” is bad, imagine if dungeons required elite play rather than average play. A better solution might be to leave them as they are and find a work-around for your issues, in the form of a group who thinks like you do.

• Giving bosses larger bags of health than they already have is not the way to make engaging, interesting encounters.

Solution: I’m fine with using mechanics to make encounters more interesting, so long as they aren’t immersion-breaking like the Asura laser room in the AB temporary dungeon. However, mechanics can be used regardless of whether berserker is effective or not.

haviz.1340:

Gele.2048:

zerker is not the problem not having holy trinity in the game IS the problem Geting ONE shoot from boss IS problem

List the bosses that one shot you, please.

• I had a 28K health, 3000 Armor necro die to one attack to the Champion Risen Knight in Malchor’s — right after it was changed from a Vet. I was in one of those tight spaces under the ruins mining the rich mithril node and it did its chain lava font thing. Thinking it was a vet, I kept right on mining. Since it was a tight space, all of the fonts landed in the same place. Game over, man.
• Then there’s the pink Champion Risen Gorilla at Lyssa, before the scaling issue was fixed. It’s Ground Pound was nasty if you were out of dodge from avoiding the catapults.

To be fair, though, those are maintained effects, so I’m not sure either qualifies for a one-shot — even though it was one ability happening in a perfect storm.

There’s no really easy fix for this.

A DR on critical hits would not work. In most situations power is already a superior choice over both Precision and Critical Damage, which need A LOT of investment on each other in order to work and A LOT of might stacking on top of that in order to outperform raw power (and even with that, that’s only true for a few builds). There’s also a Critical Damage nerf incoming.
A monster HP increase could work, but has its own downsides. Many “Play how you want” specs (with low natural damage output and usually lacking proper might / fruy / vulnerablity on top of other more specific boosts) already find current HPs quite insane. For those players built for defense, the change would not achieve anything but facetanking for a longer time.

The main culprits on those fights where the boss explodes before becoming a threat are, on top of an arguably low HP, Fiery Rush (which I suspect will eventually get “fixed”) and, playing a Guardian myself, Aegis and Reflects.

If bosses are designed to attack every 3-4 seconds for huge damage, a Guardian, which can provide up to 3 party wide Aegis, can make the group next to invulnerable for a good amount of time, sometimes enough to finsh the fight, or keep allies covered from any mistake that could hurt them for a longer time, which are unlikely to happen during a really short encounter. Aegis last for over 20 seconds, so there’s no timing required; it’s pretty much a fire and forget skill.
The Lupi fight you are refering to, there’s probably an Aegis up in order to block the kick attacks (the most subtle and hard to dodge Lupicus move), and since it’s likely the only damage source that could hit players during Phase 1 (locusts explode, grub is easily dodged) , it can be safely precasted. Grub summon needs still to be dodged, but if the video is from the PoV of a class with an evasive weapon skill, it might not have required endurance at all.

Pretty much the same happens with reflects. If the enemy is completely projectile based, WoR is not only a great damage source but also a kind of party wide invulnerbaility which last for really long.

People has suggested also Bosses with faster attacks.
Having bosses perform fast melee attack chains (like the Knight during the last LS) can work and is not anti-berserker at all. Enemy AI stops before attacking, so if carefully fought at max melee range, the aggro bearer can avoid and interrupt many of these attacks without dodging at all.
It would be harder to perform as a melee players, Aegis would not be as strong as currently is and stacking on a corner tactics would become pretty much obsolete. It also makes control type conditions (like chill or cripple) a lot more interesting.

The only problem is how balance the challenge. We could agree on berserker specs not being currently challenged as much as they should and a change like this being for good, but we should probably agree on facetanking and range kiting not being exactly a challenge and being underused just because they kill things slower.
The attack rate change is a huge difficulty ramp-up for melee berseker players, which are already harder to use than anything else for the most part, so the level of threat should also be incresed for tanky (increasing the damage on attacks that are meant to be actively avoided, for example) and ranged players (providing the boss with pulls and/or gap closers, attacks that are targeted over the player who is further away or adds that prioritize ranged damage sources) , something that might be not as popular.

I want to emphasize the add part. I truly believe that GW2 combat system works far better when several enemies need to be fought at the same time (as long as you don’t make them extremely vulnerable to reflects/blinds and provide an obvious corner to LoS, of course). Packs of mini-bosses (or bosses with adds) and enemy AI improvement is IMHO where GW2 should be heading.

Hmm you cant expect Soldier or Knight gear to do same damage as Zerger gear that would just be silly

IndigoSundown.5419:

haviz.1340:

Gele.2048:

zerker is not the problem not having holy trinity in the game IS the problem Geting ONE shoot from boss IS problem

List the bosses that one shot you, please.

• I had a 28K health, 3000 Armor necro die to one attack to the Champion Risen Knight in Malchor’s — right after it was changed from a Vet. I was in one of those tight spaces under the ruins mining the rich mithril node and it did its chain lava font thing. Thinking it was a vet, I kept right on mining. Since it was a tight space, all of the fonts landed in the same place. Game over, man.
• Then there’s the pink Champion Risen Gorilla at Lyssa, before the scaling issue was fixed. It’s Ground Pound was nasty if you were out of dodge from avoiding the catapults.

To be fair, though, those are maintained effects, so I’m not sure either qualifies for a one-shot — even though it was one ability happening in a perfect storm.

You know you can interrupt your mining to dodge, right?

Zerker isn’t a problem; it’s actually a lot harder to play in zerker than it is tanky or even partially tanky.

It takes a lot more skill to avoid hits and time your dodges than to stand there and be a meat shield.

Zerker in fact needs a buff.. a big one.. either that or tanky classes need their dps cut in half. There is no way a tanky class should out dps a zerker class. Yes if you take to classes of the same time (lets assume warriors), you equip one warrior in full PVT gear and the other in full zerker gear, the PVT warrior has a higher damage auto attack…

As I said, zerker is not a problem, it needs a buff.

Shufflepants.9785:

IndigoSundown.5419:

haviz.1340:

Gele.2048:

zerker is not the problem not having holy trinity in the game IS the problem Geting ONE shoot from boss IS problem

List the bosses that one shot you, please.

• I had a 28K health, 3000 Armor necro die to one attack to the Champion Risen Knight in Malchor’s — right after it was changed from a Vet. I was in one of those tight spaces under the ruins mining the rich mithril node and it did its chain lava font thing. Thinking it was a vet, I kept right on mining. Since it was a tight space, all of the fonts landed in the same place. Game over, man.
• Then there’s the pink Champion Risen Gorilla at Lyssa, before the scaling issue was fixed. It’s Ground Pound was nasty if you were out of dodge from avoiding the catapults.

To be fair, though, those are maintained effects, so I’m not sure either qualifies for a one-shot — even though it was one ability happening in a perfect storm.

You know you can interrupt your mining to dodge, right?

It’s kind of hard when you’re cracking a pistachio. :/

runeblade.7514:

Zerker isn’t the problem, it is a symptom.

+1
this.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• I had a 28K health, 3000 Armor necro die to one attack to the Champion Risen Knight in Malchor’s — right after it was changed from a Vet. I was in one of those tight spaces under the ruins mining the rich mithril node and it did its chain lava font thing. Thinking it was a vet, I kept right on mining. Since it was a tight space, all of the fonts landed in the same place. Game over, man.
• Then there’s the pink Champion Risen Gorilla at Lyssa, before the scaling issue was fixed. It’s Ground Pound was nasty if you were out of dodge from avoiding the catapults.

To be fair, though, those are maintained effects, so I’m not sure either qualifies for a one-shot — even though it was one ability happening in a perfect storm.

I was expecting bosses from instances. I don’t think we saw anyone claiming that zerker is a problem in the open world? Especially when they are upscaled. Scaling is a bit broken but apparently anet expects a lot of people to fight a gorilla because there are a lot of people nearby. Instead of modifying bosses aoe cap they just increase their damage and health. But that’s the problem with zergs not zerk.

And another informative thread full of good and right information, the only thing it lacks is just that! Now OP do us all a favor and buy a brain, kind regards - Train :-)

another “zerker problem” thread

OneManArmy.9732:

another “zerker problem” thread

Yep, what fun.

IB4:

“Zerkers don’t use support or control!!!!”
“Zerkers sploit!!!”
“I can’t get a group unless running the full zerk meta!!!”.
“You can’t do the content unless zerk!!!”.
“Zerk is easy, PVT is hard!”
“Zerk players are bad!”
“Muh full clerics guard is slower than muh dungeon meta dps guard, it’s not fair!!!!”.
“Zerk is boring, heal spamming and tanking is awesome fun so nerf dps!!!”
“Every mob one shots you!”.

Runied the game for you. Only the hard-core players are complaining btw, wanting GW2 to go back to a Wow-style holy-triny where they can enjoy being healers, tanks and dps’s and where action combat becomes useless becasue none will ever care about dodging when a tank is there.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t for everyone, complaining about the core mechanics of the game is kinda lame. It is not the only MMO and it is not meant to be for everyone.

Zerker gear + dungeon bug exploits.

Without this 2 requirements it is really hard to get a “pug” team to make dungeons, player gona be flamed and droped from party.

Zerker build has ruined this game !

No. Zerker meta is a symptom, not a cause.

Drakent.9605:

Ok I know I am going to get a lot of hate respond from this topic but some 1 has to call it out and so I will.
So how is this ruined the game?

A thread like this pops up too frequently.

Drakent.9605:

As every player know that now on days doing pve dungeon every one demands for a zerker class.

You liar, many/most parties don’t even care about your equipment or build. Stop lying and misinforming people.

Drakent.9605:

MMO RPG are all about learning mobs weakness and strength , always been about what is the best weapon or skill to use on a boss and learn what attack a boss does.
This game has all that but can be completely ignore since zerker build can dps the boss so fast that it doesn’t aloud the boss to do much.

Not all mmorpgs need to be the same as the garbage mmorpg in your head, gw2 is supposed to be an action-like game. Have you even played any third-person action games?

Drakent.9605:

there has to be more ppl out there like me who would rather play with strategy then just hack and slash a boss , I mean there is D3 for that

Go play WoW or other crap mmo that requires people to be punched in the face.

FYI: D3 inferno PRE-PATCH (jay wilsoned edition) is what you want – i finished it, it’s dumb. 0 player skills needed, if you have the right build and gear a monkey can play it.

Kumu Honua.2751:

The actual problem is that they game rewards bad play. If you die at an event because you fail to dodge things EVERY SINGLE TIME you are still rewarded the same as someone who performed flawlessly.

What they need is a sliding scale of reward.

As I suggested in another post in regards to the knights. Give players that get participation 1 chest.

Players that avoid getting hit by the boss mechanics get 3 bonus chests.

Players that get hit only once get 2 bonus chests.

Players that get hit 2-3 times get 1 bonus chest.

Players that get hit more get no bonus chest.

Now players are rewarded for skillful play.

The two are rewarded the same because both are punished differently.

Those who perform flawlessly will have 0 waypoint fee and 0 repair fee. Those who dies a lot will rack up a ton of fees.

Zerker ruined this game cause there are no defined classes. If people actually needed each other to beat a dungeon, this game would be wonderful. Instead, everything you need is put into one class and a party of that class (guardian) has everything that’s needed to drop a boss in seconds. Warrior/Guardian combo or just a full party of Guardians is all you need in this game. And for all the people who say, you don’t need to learn game mechanics to beat a dungeon as one…you’re kind of wrong. Zerkers get downed with Lupi’s kick and if you’re not so quick on your feet yet his aoe is instant double down. But really, it’d be nice to need a guardian because of its heals and boons and it’s survive-ability skills for the party, not cause with it as Zerker, be the best thing at all thing’s. I want my warrior’s to be tanks or decent DDrs and my Eles to have the best aoes and Rangers to have good single target dmg with some mediocre aoe’s. Gw2 feels like a console game with mandatory grinding to look good only, not to improve your character at its abilities. You level to look good, You do dungeons to for tokens to look good and the small amounts of money you get to save for a good looking weapon or cultural armor…you fractal for a shiney back piece or skins, you gamble at chests for coupons for skins. Too much glamour in this game, I don’t wanna spend hours grinding to be beautiful and to play dress up. It also doesn’t feel rewarding when you spend a gripe of money on ascended armor and legendaries and they give such minimal stat boosts. Nope nope nope. Gw2 tried too hard to be different and kinda sucked at it.

Drakent.9605:

Creates bad player’s :
since player can kill bosses so fast, they have no clue on how to avoid getting hit or aren’t used to the idea of avoiding damage that if they are in a group that cant down a boss under 20 sec they start dropping like fly’s and start blaming there death for the lack of dps not b/c they didn’t use there dodge when standing on the red circle

Shuns Classes:
I have play all classes to lvl 80 and I find none of them to have any dps issue , yes some class will do a bit more then other but no such a huge difference to call the class bad or unplayable but the zerker build works so good with a warrior and guardian far better then any other class because there classes is build to take on some damage before they have to pull back on the defencive making them the class of the month since the point of zerker build is to stand in 1 spot and burn the boss HP

Destroys game mechanics:
MMO RPG are all about learning mobs weakness and strength , always been about what is the best weapon or skill to use on a boss and learn what attack a boss does.
This game has all that but can be completely ignore since zerker build can dps the boss so fast that it doesn’t aloud the boss to do much.

1) it does not create bad players – if you want to play a dungeon with a full zerker party YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DODGE and avoid damage using reflects and blinds. I cannot stress this enough. If you can’t do this your full zerker party will wipe very hard.

2)Guardians are a requirement in any form of content if you want to allow yourself a good margin of error and make sure your run goes smooth. There are classes that are less desirable because of mechanics ( see rangers) that will never be that popular.

3)This is not an MMO RPG – it’s more of an MMO action-adventure crossed with an FPS. It’s a fast paced twitch game where damage matters.
First know what your are playing before you call it broken. You want a traditional MMO RPG ? There are MANY waiting.

BeebleBrocks.4836:

But really, it’d be nice to need a guardian because of its heals and boons and it’s survive-ability skills for the party

But that’s exactly what Guardians are wanted for (well, everything but the heals).
Aegis, protection, reflects and condition removal. If none of these are really needed, speedrun groups probably take a Ranger (or another Ele) over a Guardian.

I believe I’m getting eye cancer from the OP’s arguments.

so many babies on this forum, whaaaaaaaaaaaa zerker ruined the game for me maybe what you need is your bottle so you can go back to sleep on ur blankie. besides isnt it already confirmed zerker will be edited?!

Alex.9567:

so many babies on this forum, whaaaaaaaaaaaa zerker ruined the game for me maybe what you need is your bottle so you can go back to sleep on ur blankie. besides isnt it already confirmed zerker will be edited?!

the discussion in these forums usually involve a combination of strawman arguments, ad hominems and reductio ad absurdum arguments like this.

Vargamonth.2047:

BeebleBrocks.4836:

But really, it’d be nice to need a guardian because of its heals and boons and it’s survive-ability skills for the party

But that’s exactly what Guardians are wanted for (well, everything but the heals).
Aegis, protection, reflects and condition removal. If none of these are really needed, speedrun groups probably take a Ranger (or another Ele) over a Guardian.

I’ve never had a guardian in my party who can support a random party of archers/thieves/eles/necros who aren’t zerker….95% of the time the guardian is the first to go down in the pugs I’ve had. It’s hp is really low in zerker/pth, even in ptv but then, in that case, it’s mostly useless. This thread is about zerkers ruining Gw2, and a zerker warrior and mostly guardian, has done that. For a good 100% sure ability to beat a dungeon party in good time, you need to be one of the two or most will kick. A mesmer is probably third best choice, but even I insta kick if they are just unknowing of what their “job” is. Sad to admit it. So far what I’ve learnt in pugs, if you can’t down a boss fast enough to keep up with the zerkers CD’s, you’re out cause they start dying. The guard as a zerker has very high dmg and can support the party at the same time as they deal it. All in one class, so I don’t need your slow dps zerker ranger or necro in my party cause a warrior and guard do it better. Class discrimination and unbalance.

Pie Flavor.1647:

Alex.9567:

so many babies on this forum, whaaaaaaaaaaaa zerker ruined the game for me maybe what you need is your bottle so you can go back to sleep on ur blankie. besides isnt it already confirmed zerker will be edited?!

the discussion in these forums usually involve a combination of strawman arguments, ad hominems and reductio ad absurdum arguments like this.

cute, looks whose done philosophy 101

Think that this is the 5k thread i read about zerker gear, zerker build, etc. The diference between zerk and clerics/pvt/shaman, etc is that you relly on active defences (dodge, blind aegis, etc) not passive defenses (hight armor and hp). As many have said before me it’s a high risk vs a high reward play style.

P.S: Can’t count the zerk parties that failed at lupi because they didn’t know the mechanics (dodge grubs, the kick, and avoid the dome in p3)

theodor.3480:

Think that this is the 5k thread i read about zerker gear, zerker build, etc. The diference between zerk and clerics/pvt/shaman, etc is that you relly on active defences (dodge, blind aegis, etc) not passive defenses (hight armor and hp). As many have said before me it’s a high risk vs a high reward play style.

P.S: Can’t count the zerk parties that failed at lupi because they didn’t know the mechanics (dodge grubs, the kick, and avoid the dome in p3)

Shouldn’t get a dome if you just stand still. Also, where zerkers and exp comes in handy. Don’t have to deal with that junk if you down it right away.

Alex.9567:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Alex.9567:

so many babies on this forum, whaaaaaaaaaaaa zerker ruined the game for me maybe what you need is your bottle so you can go back to sleep on ur blankie. besides isnt it already confirmed zerker will be edited?!

the discussion in these forums usually involve a combination of strawman arguments, ad hominems and reductio ad absurdum arguments like this.

cute, looks whose done philosophy 101

oh look another ad hominem, do you have an actual argument or do you only know how to do this?

BeebleBrocks.4836:

Vargamonth.2047:

BeebleBrocks.4836:

But really, it’d be nice to need a guardian because of its heals and boons and it’s survive-ability skills for the party

But that’s exactly what Guardians are wanted for (well, everything but the heals).
Aegis, protection, reflects and condition removal. If none of these are really needed, speedrun groups probably take a Ranger (or another Ele) over a Guardian.

I’ve never had a guardian in my party who can support a random party of archers/thieves/eles/necros who aren’t zerker….95% of the time the guardian is the first to go down in the pugs I’ve had. It’s hp is really low in zerker/pth, even in ptv but then, in that case, it’s mostly useless. This thread is about zerkers ruining Gw2, and a zerker warrior and mostly guardian, has done that. For a good 100% sure ability to beat a dungeon party in good time, you need to be one of the two or most will kick. A mesmer is probably third best choice, but even I insta kick if they are just unknowing of what their “job” is. Sad to admit it. So far what I’ve learnt in pugs, if you can’t down a boss fast enough to keep up with the zerkers CD’s, you’re out cause they start dying. The guard as a zerker has very high dmg and can support the party at the same time as they deal it. All in one class, so I don’t need your slow dps zerker ranger or necro in my party cause a warrior and guard do it better. Class discrimination and unbalance.

That’s just not true.
For completing a dungeon in a good time with a PUG you probably want a warrior (maybe two so they’re not forced to fill their bar with banners) and a single guardian, which makes things easier. Anything above this is pretty much useless, since they can’t bring any additional support nor they’re the best options for damage.
If people keep asking for warriors and guardians is just because for these classes it’s easier to deal damage while surviving and most players using berserker (or not) are actually terrible.