Guild Wars 2

beGreen.4190:

Lack of Diversity is bad for every game, especially massively multiplayer one.
Before i get to QQ let me introduce myself

I’ve always played as healer or support in every kind of RPG game so when i started playing GW my first class of choice was guardian – just because it was labeled as a support and team player. Not expecting it to be WoW-like healbot i finally settled in hammer/staff AH build with knight gear. I was really happy with it because it was giving me exactly what i wanted, reactive support game play with decent survivability and damage, it was also pretty competitive in dungeons and fotm (at the times when 20 level was the highest beatable one).

And then zerker meta came…

Most of zerker jerks are actually right, you don’t anything than uber dps to stomp hardest of dungeons and only justification for not running full zerker build is lack of skill and sloppy dodging, what is more i even agree with the statement that crit damage nerf makes the game even worse since zerker groups can’t carry 1-non zerker.

What the game needs to increase diversity and make people that just hate all-in damage game play happy again is either nerfing berserker into oblivion or changing whole dungeon system on a deep level.

First option is probably a bad idea because as i genuinely love supporting and healing there are surely people who genuinely love low survivability and high spikes of crits and the should have their fun too.

What second option needs is in my opinion:

-Adjusting condition cap in dungeons so condition based builds aren’t kitten by it. Condition build become viable = more diversity = profit.

-Adding “threat” system and making the AI slightly better so high damage dealing players are getting focused by bosses and thus are having harder time (I’ve read about threat system in gw2 before but i’ve never seen it work tbh)

-Changing at least one encounter in every path in every dungeon to have type of damage that can’t be mitigated by dodging to make healing and boons more relevant (i am talking snowstorm in svanir fractal, homing missiles, melee attacks that can’t be dodged etc. )

-Changing some of the bosses large abilities trigger from “cast every 5 minutes” to cast every “33% of health lost”. Assuming that it takes 5 minutes for a zerk group and 15 minutes for a normal group to take down one single boss it doesn’t change anything to a normal group but makes zerk group’s life harder because instead of one big hit they have to withstand 3 of them.

-Adjusting traits, abilites and stats to a level where being full time supporter is not being laughed at, increasing impact of healing power and adding utility and healing skills that can be used to effectively support others (like guardian’s healing breeze but actually useful)

-Adjusting traits, abilities and stats so being more sturdy doesn’t mean one can’t dodge… for example traits that increase threat making boss more likely to attack “the tank” or control abilities that involve getting hit to prevent damage on teammates.

I am aware of fact that changes I’am proposing would turn the class system more to mmo’s holy trinity (tank-dps-healer) but i really wouldn’t like to see gw transformed into WoW. What i’d like to see is more diversity, interesting meta and one’s ability to play whatever style he or she wishes to.

holy trinity is actually more interesting and deep than holy entity (full berseker warrior)

I’d love to hear your input
-

I Like your ideas. As to the Trinity thing. When I first heard about gw2’s developement, MY understanding was that there would be a Trinity. Control, Damage, and Support.

My understanding at the time was that NO class would be locked Into a trinity position, but that ALL classes could pick and choose from all three when they wanted.

With the new " respecc free at any time while out of combat. " we are getting that now. But the problem seems to be that the people NOT playing Berserker DPS are ither people Playing skills and builds that are cool for them, or people that have difficulty with the " dodge and zerg" playstyle.

I believe the devs need to re-imagine content so that groups need " a trinity" Not necessarilly classes Locked Into a trinity position…but where they ask " Ok, who is gonna provide crowd control this time? who is on boons this time? who are DPS?"

Also I think more needs to be done about Threat. Why does it make sense that my gf the guardian in Cnainmail with mace and shield is bashing the mob to heck..I summon one illusion, which runs in, does 0 damage, but then I get agro?

I love this game, In general i love the steps they have taken, I just hope the game does more to encourage diversity.

Someone suggested changing attacks of some of the mobs to not be spike-damage. You have 2 dodges, and you usually use those to get out of giant attacks, especially with zerker build. If there was a plenty of multiple, smaller damage sources – that just wouldn’t work, would it? I think this idea alone(not mine as I’ve mentioned) would help with build diversity.

Yes, dodging should be rewarded. At the same time helping your teammates should be more rewarding than going full damage. It wouldn’t fix the problem entirely, because as Wooden Potatoes mentioned in his “Why does Healing Power suck” video:
- Every class has their own healing skills
- It’s faster to ress someone by killing the enemy in most cases
- Healing power gives really small boosts compared to other stats
- Almost NO ONE will see you heal them or support them, especially in larger groups

Those issues should be fixed imo, but that would require a really big update.

beGreen.4190:

What the game needs to increase diversity and make people that just hate all-in damage game play happy again is either nerfing berserker into oblivion or changing whole dungeon system on a deep level.

-

What does it matter to you and people like you what other people run on their gear?
Can you not play the game with similarly minded individuals and let others play the game the way they feel they should?

By your logic – as a person who hates healing and support I say remove all support gear from the game and force people to fend for themselves.
Does that mean they should change the game to cater to me ( and other dps-lovers) out there? No.

Just like they won’t change the game to make you and a handful of others feel special and loved.

Even if zerker is nerfed you’ll still end up with people enforcing other types of damage gear because at the end of the day damage is what matters because damage is what gets things killed fast.

You need to realize you can’t change the game just because you don’t feel you fit in – or because It doesn’t play the way you want it to. There are other people that play and that do not agree with you or your play style – and yet i’ve never seen a thread about " nerf PVT gear – too strong " or " cleric’s is OP – please nerf into ground".

The bottom line is you are used to being more important than others because you come from a system where your dedicated healer role was very high-value. DPS were a dime a dozen but you were the game’s very special snowflake and now that you’re brought into a game where you have to both support and dps at the same time ( like all zerker parties do) you no longer feel special – just one in a crowd – so you want the game to change to suit your needs and ultimately that’s selfish to the extreme.

beGreen.4190:

I am aware of fact that changes I’am proposing would turn the class system more to mmo’s holy trinity (tank-dps-healer) but i really wouldn’t like to see gw transformed into WoW. What i’d like to see is more diversity, interesting meta and one’s ability to play whatever style he or she wishes to.

-

I am just in awe at the amount of self-centered thinking you’ve got going on here.
So you want the game to be one where everyone can play whatever they like ( Like the game is now) but it should be changed where what you like is enforced on others because you can’t be bothered to play with people that like what you like. Or am I getting this wrong?

Izdubar.9540:

If you need to feel needed so badly, virtually every other MMO on the market uses the tired and archaic trinity system.

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles. This isn’t true about gw2. There is no need to have a healer because one doesn’t exist but also the bosses don’t hit you hard enough to need one because the devs made a game that doesn’t have roles. Because of this, the top priority and only priority of every fight is DPS. Thats quite stupid, and boring.

Probably the single biggest change this game needs is a revamp to this problem in PVE.

beGreen.4190:

Guys i believe most of you here got me wrong.

Bringing balanced groups up to a level where they can compete with full zerker groups is not bringing holy trinity back. It’s a fundamental balance change. People are hindered for playing the game the way they like what is the purpose of rabid or cleric gear in the game when it’s pointless to use it on a decent level pve.

Sure i can find myself a casual group which is not speedrunning and doesn’t mind my cleric gear but that group is still 3 times worse than 4 warriors and mes. This basically kills the whole purpose of having gear other than zerker and soldier (for bad players lol) in the game.

There will always be “the best way” to play the game i agree but right now this “best way” is 2 times too “best” if you catch my drift.

Also asking me why dont I run support build with zerker is stupid. It doesn’t feel right, it’s clearly not what creator of the game intended and you guys know it

How do you know? How are you so sure the “creator” of this game didn’t want you to run support skills in a zerker set – providing active damage mitigation, boosts and heals for your party while also hitting hard and doing your job.

What you want you’ve stated very well – you want non-zerker groups to be able to complete content just as fast as zerker groups but without the risk that zerkers take when going full zerker.

You basically want those guys who did Arah in full cleric’s without dodging once ( a lot of people know the video) to have a clear time just as fast as a team that coordinates blocks /dodges / heals / buffs and is squishy as hell.

Basically you’re saying those guys are getting a lot of loot because they’re playing in zerker, but I don’t want to get to their level and play the game like they do – just change the game so I get as much loot as they do with no effort from me – Now why would they give you this?

If I see a good party doing good my first reaction is : let’s find out how they did it, what they ran, and then I’ll practice that and get good at it too so I too can share in the spoils and the glory of fast clear times and loot.

Your approach is going on the forums and demanding that the game be changed so you get the same amount of loot without putting in any effort because it would make you happy.
Oh – forgot – nerfing the guys who run it faster than you just because they’re faster would also make you happy.

You’re a wonderful guy.

fadeaway.2807:

People forget that you gain far more effective health and survivability from pvt gear than you gain Dps from zerker gear.
From a statistical point of view, defensive stats already offer a far better bang for your buck.

This originally wasn’t true. The thing with DPS is that, the quicker an enemy dies, the quicker it stops doing damage. So, if you take two players, one who kills twice as fast as the other and one who takes half the damage as the other, they preform the same in the end.

I say “originally” because last time I did a comparison between soldier and zerker gear, there was only a miniscule difference between the two regarding overall performance in damage and durability. With the more recent nerf, soldier gear might have climbed higher up in that comparison.

beGreen.4190:

Also asking me why dont I run support build with zerker is stupid. It doesn’t feel right, it’s clearly not what creator of the game intended and you guys know it

See my sig since apparently your assumption is better than a dungeon dev’s words.
or just this link http://i.imgur.com/g1rkIub.jpg

Sorry if gw2 isn’t your re-skinned [insert favorite typical spank and tank mmorpg here]

SkylightMoon.1980:

Izdubar.9540:

If you need to feel needed so badly, virtually every other MMO on the market uses the tired and archaic trinity system.

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles. This isn’t true about gw2. There is no need to have a healer because one doesn’t exist but also the bosses don’t hit you hard enough to need one because the devs made a game that doesn’t have roles. Because of this, the top priority and only priority of every fight is DPS. Thats quite stupid, and boring.

Probably the single biggest change this game needs is a revamp to this problem in PVE.

Wrong.

Go to a build calculator, forget about the encounter mechanics at the moment, and see how many builds you can make centered around different things, such as CC, support, damage, hybrids.

It’s the encounter mechanics not bringing out the full depth of the combat system. Not the other way around.

As for the Trinity offering interesting encounters, name a few encounter mechanics that required the Trinity to be implemented, and thus couldn’t be replicated in GW2.

Increase berserker atk/power and reduce in armor.

TheDaiBish.9735:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Izdubar.9540:

If you need to feel needed so badly, virtually every other MMO on the market uses the tired and archaic trinity system.

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles. This isn’t true about gw2. There is no need to have a healer because one doesn’t exist but also the bosses don’t hit you hard enough to need one because the devs made a game that doesn’t have roles. Because of this, the top priority and only priority of every fight is DPS. Thats quite stupid, and boring.

Probably the single biggest change this game needs is a revamp to this problem in PVE.

Wrong.

Go to a build calculator, forget about the encounter mechanics at the moment, and see how many builds you can make centered around different things, such as CC, support, damage, hybrids.

It’s the encounter mechanics not bringing out the full depth of the combat system. Not the other way around.

As for the Trinity offering interesting encounters, name a few encounter mechanics that required the Trinity to be implemented, and thus couldn’t be replicated in GW2.

lol. no im right about the trinity still being better than the current state of gw2’s dry pve. Bosses that output high dps and therefore require a healer couldn’t be implemented in gw2. Currently with the new sigils/runes/traits for ele, you could make something that is very healer-ish, but then again the devs don’t want roles in this game so I doubt theyd make a fight for it.

Yesterday, when I was doing some champs in Cursed Shore, I stumbled upon a champ at some old arena (for the first time in two years lol) and he was insta-downing everyone except me Having full ascended PTV set allowed me to survive with —-1-— HP left
It felt legendary B-)

SkylightMoon.1980:

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles.

One doesn’t need to have trinity/roles to make interesting boss fights.

Anet needs to make interesting boss fights to make interesting boss fights.

Problem is they can’t just totaly nerf zerker so it would be useless or change mechanics of dungeons so full zerker have no chance becouse people spended thousands for full ascended zerker gears. If they would do it, it would be end of GW2 becouse they would just destroy everything we players worked on for last year.
Such changes would have to come with something what they did with magic find gear. They would have to let people to change their stats for free first.

A big issue in GW2 is that it’s a game designed without a Tank/DPS/Healer trinity yet has stats built around tank/healer/dps. Tanking stats like vitality and toughness are worthless in a game with no tank role.
What we need is a selection of stats which benefit a variety of methods by which you can actively support the team. They must be stats which are utilised by skill, not made redundant by skill like vit and toughness.
Mind you a full dps team should always be viable and faster than any other team, just harder to run with.

SkylightMoon.1980:

TheDaiBish.9735:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Izdubar.9540:

If you need to feel needed so badly, virtually every other MMO on the market uses the tired and archaic trinity system.

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles. This isn’t true about gw2. There is no need to have a healer because one doesn’t exist but also the bosses don’t hit you hard enough to need one because the devs made a game that doesn’t have roles. Because of this, the top priority and only priority of every fight is DPS. Thats quite stupid, and boring.

Probably the single biggest change this game needs is a revamp to this problem in PVE.

Wrong.

Go to a build calculator, forget about the encounter mechanics at the moment, and see how many builds you can make centered around different things, such as CC, support, damage, hybrids.

It’s the encounter mechanics not bringing out the full depth of the combat system. Not the other way around.

As for the Trinity offering interesting encounters, name a few encounter mechanics that required the Trinity to be implemented, and thus couldn’t be replicated in GW2.

lol. no im right about the trinity still being better than the current state of gw2’s dry pve. Bosses that output high dps and therefore require a healer couldn’t be implemented in gw2. Currently with the new sigils/runes/traits for ele, you could make something that is very healer-ish, but then again the devs don’t want roles in this game so I doubt theyd make a fight for it.

I wasn’t saying you were wrong that the Trinity was better since, you know, ‘better’ is subjective and all that. I was saying you were wrong in terms of the game can’t have interesting bosses because of the lack of roles.

You could have high damage output though, and mitigated in GW2 through regen, weakness, protection, blind, aegis, vigour, heals through skills or blasting Water fields.

As for interesting bosses, go take a look at the Lover’s fight in AC story. Look at the mechanics. Now, imagine if them mechanics come into play more often. In that fight, you’d need two players with a lot of control, or control spread amongst all 5 players and a lot of co-ordination in order to do the fight.

As I said, encounter mechanics not requiring variety are at fault. Not the lack of static, pre-defined roles that never change from dungeon to dungeon.

I always have to laugh when I see people who think a trinity causes build diversity.
Build diversity is an illusion, no matter how a game is constructed, there will always be an optimum (being viable) and other subpar choices. In the end, there is always one choice to make: being useful, adapting to game mechanics and actively playing or being a leech, afk’ing through content and complaining on the forums.

I’m all in for better encounters, especially in dungeons. Lupicus, open world Melandru and Legendary Wizard in front of Arah. Those are nice fights where you actually need to pay attention. Know what they all not put out? Constant, unavoidable damage that needs to be out-afk’ed. They all do high damage attacks, more or less frequently. Position yourself right, pay attention to dodge or… die. May you leech set not carry you.

beGreen.4190:

-Adding “threat” system and making the AI slightly better so high damage dealing players are getting focused by bosses and thus are having harder time (I’ve read about threat system in gw2 before but i’ve never seen it work tbh)

So in a group of 5, 4 with full DPS and 1 with PVT “tank”, the AI should focus on the higher damaging players so the tanky players are completely useless. At least with the current semi-random system there is a chance that they will take one or two hits and justify not being full DPS themselves.

-Changing at least one encounter in every path in every dungeon to have type of damage that can’t be mitigated by dodging to make healing and boons more relevant (i am talking snowstorm in svanir fractal, homing missiles, melee attacks that can’t be dodged etc. )

Then players will need more DPS to get through the encounter as fast as possible so thy “avoid” the effects of that damage. Also, if you didn’t know, the best Berserker groups make full use of Boons and Support (blinds, interrupts, aegis, reflects etc). Having those is even more important for Zerkers because without all those, they die.

-Changing some of the bosses large abilities trigger from “cast every 5 minutes” to cast every “33% of health lost”. Assuming that it takes 5 minutes for a zerk group and 15 minutes for a normal group to take down one single boss it doesn’t change anything to a normal group but makes zerk group’s life harder because instead of one big hit they have to withstand 3 of them.

5 minutes and 15 minutes, you identified the “issue” with zerker there! I don’t think your solution will work though. GOOD players will always find a way to avoid that extra attack.

-Adjusting traits, abilites and stats to a level where being full time supporter is not being laughed at, increasing impact of healing power and adding utility and healing skills that can be used to effectively support others (like guardian’s healing breeze but actually useful)

I think I saw a video of an Elementalist soloing the Spider in AC just by using the Water auto attack (Staff) with full Healing gear. Also, some group of Guardians doing Arah in Cleric’s gear and clearing without dodging… Healing skills and abilities don’t need to be buffed, they are already powerful enough. Your assumption that they need buffs is wrong.

-Adjusting traits, abilities and stats so being more sturdy doesn’t mean one can’t dodge… for example traits that increase threat making boss more likely to attack “the tank” or control abilities that involve getting hit to prevent damage on teammates.

How is that going to work with the “improve AI to attack DPS players” suggestion? If you want to take threat, DO something to the mob, simple as that.

If you look at PVP, conditions and Healing are king. So, what’s different between PVP and PVE?

a) Players have way way less health than mobs, this means full Berserkers (for example Thieves with backstab) can kill someone in a split second, but they can also die very easily even by a Bunker character.

b) Players attack way faster than mobs. Instead of attacking in big chunks of damage, mobs can use Player-like attack speeds, less damage, faster attacks so they can’t be dodged/blocked/blinded so effectively

c) Players are moving. OK I doubt this can be used by the AI in a meaningful way so we will skip this. Although there ARE some mobs that are moving (Centaur archers for example)

d) Players support each other. There are far too few situations when mobs are actually built in a way that they can support each other, with some notable exceptions like the Bandit Thugs in CM or the Risen Hunters in Arah

e) Players use conditions a lot and they are super OP (in PVP), few mob groups utilise lots of condition pressure

f) Players can heal themselves very well. Instead of fighting mobs with a bilion hit points, how about making them far lower Hit points but allow mobs (and more importantly Bosses) the ability to regain their health if certain conditions aren’t met (interrupting them is one thing to do)

g) Players can revive their allies. This is a big one, sometimes, it’s better to let your ally get downed than healing them, when they get up from downed they will get way more health than most healing skill could do. Mobs could revive each other too, although that wouldn’t work so well because they can’t stop their current actions very well

Harper.4173:

The bottom line is you are used to being more important than others because you come from a system where your dedicated healer role was very high-value. DPS were a dime a dozen but you were the game’s very special snowflake and now that you’re brought into a game where you have to both support and dps at the same time ( like all zerker parties do) you no longer feel special – just one in a crowd – so you want the game to change to suit your needs and ultimately that’s selfish to the extreme.

beGreen.4190:

I am aware of fact that changes I’am proposing would turn the class system more to mmo’s holy trinity (tank-dps-healer) but i really wouldn’t like to see gw transformed into WoW. What i’d like to see is more diversity, interesting meta and one’s ability to play whatever style he or she wishes to.

-

I am just in awe at the amount of self-centered thinking you’ve got going on here.
So you want the game to be one where everyone can play whatever they like ( Like the game is now) but it should be changed where what you like is enforced on others because you can’t be bothered to play with people that like what you like. Or am I getting this wrong?

This pretty much sums up every “plz nerf zerker” thread I have ever seen on this forum.

I think we not going anywhere with this Zerk nerf cause Anet should have started with some crowd control and conditions first. Nerfing Zerk doesnt do much, folks still play zerk cause thats the only viable build to get enemies down quick (talking about PvE). Go into any event, boss or simple AI enemy with a condition or cc build just not worth it, you just kill it faster with zerk build. If they now try to buff conditions and cc, zerks gona be more obsolete so my speculation is we not gona see any buffs for such builds for a long time.

Chill people want to instagib everything and hight rewards, zerker is fine still possible to high crit damage on wvw on some classes.

All the ferocity change did was make Power builds less viable in WvW reducing diversity there while keeping the all Zeker dungeon meta intact.

Please revert ferocity changes anet.

Nerelith.7360:

I believe the devs need to re-imagine content so that groups need " a trinity" Not necessarilly classes Locked Into a trinity position…but where they ask " Ok, who is gonna provide crowd control this time? who is on boons this time? who are DPS?"

It’s already in there, some classes are support – providing boons (might, fury, protection, aegis), party defenses (reflection, projectile absorption, line of warding) and conditon removal; Thieves, Elementalists, Guardians, Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers, Engies.
Some classes bring Crowd control – soft (snare, chill, root), hard (blind, stun, daze); Elementalists, Necros, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Engies.
Some will do great damage; Elementalists, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Necros (single target).

TL;DR

As you can see, some classes do every thing – Elementalists, Warriors, Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers and Thieves. They provide the whole trinity by themselve, unlike the left out classes. They support and CC while doing DPS. This is the optimal party synergy – Everyone does everything.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Nerelith.7360:

I believe the devs need to re-imagine content so that groups need " a trinity" Not necessarilly classes Locked Into a trinity position…but where they ask " Ok, who is gonna provide crowd control this time? who is on boons this time? who are DPS?"

It’s already in there, some classes are support – providing boons (might, fury, protection, aegis), party defenses (reflection, projectile absorption, line of warding) and conditon removal; Thieves, Elementalists, Guardians, Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers, Engies.
Some classes bring Crowd control – soft (snare, chill, root), hard (blind, stun, daze); Elementalists, Necros, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Engies.
Some will do great damage; Elementalists, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Necros (single target).

TL;DR

As you can see, some classes do every thing – Elementalists, Warriors, Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers and Thieves. They provide the whole trinity by themselve, unlike the left out classes. They support and CC while doing DPS. This is the optimal party synergy – Everyone does everything.

Prefect.3681:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Nerelith.7360:

I believe the devs need to re-imagine content so that groups need " a trinity" Not necessarilly classes Locked Into a trinity position…but where they ask " Ok, who is gonna provide crowd control this time? who is on boons this time? who are DPS?"

It’s already in there, some classes are support – providing boons (might, fury, protection, aegis), party defenses (reflection, projectile absorption, line of warding) and conditon removal; Thieves, Elementalists, Guardians, Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers, Engies.
Some classes bring Crowd control – soft (snare, chill, root), hard (blind, stun, daze); Elementalists, Necros, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Engies.
Some will do great damage; Elementalists, Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Necros (single target).

TL;DR

As you can see, some classes do every thing – Elementalists, Warriors, Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers and Thieves. They provide the whole trinity by themselve, unlike the left out classes. They support and CC while doing DPS. This is the optimal party synergy – Everyone does everything.

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

haviz.1340:

Humans aren’t machines, even the best pve guilds can wipe, not to mention typical zerker pugs.

I think you just proved the point. Organized group even if they full party wipe is rare compared to PuG. Doing that would just punish PuGs even more causing more toxicity and people raging at PuGs in LFGs even more. Nobody wants that.

PvE instanced is mostly zerk, open world is too casual to even care about that. And most people play open world.

That is the point. GW2 is too easy it doesn’t mean that non zerk is the best for open world it just means that what you bring doesn’t really matter since it is extremely easy. That isn’t to say non zerk is the best it just means that you can get by with anything really.

My point, not everything is zerker. Condie engies, spirit rangers, bunker guardians, condie wars, bunker wars, decap engies, etc.

You said you don’t see zerker used as a meta but I’m saying you do see it for certain professions. It is meta for them. There is just more a bit more you can do in PvP in terms of builds but either way you can’t expect a single game mode to have all play styles and builds available for you that is the point. Decap engi works in PvP can you use it anywhere else? No. Trying to complain or make it so that you can use that build and be viable in PvE and WvW is just silly. Some things will be better in one game mode versus the other.

Again, meta isn’t zerker. You just admitted my point.

You have to have zerker or dps in your group otherwise you do kitten for damage anyhow really. So how isn’t that meta just because other people choose to use something else because of their skill level. Same happens for PvE. Like 1v1 you would use zerker that is meta since if you are skilled you only need dps and some utilities. Small group play you would have zerker like 10v10, 20v20 or something since you won’t take damage from a large amount of people and it is easier to survive through utilities or dodges. It is part of the meta. Meta =/= only 1 thing. Now in a 60v60 blobfest or 100v100 map blob skill lag fight then yeah you might run some tanky stats too since if you fail you get hit like by 30 people or something. Either way that doesn’t change what is good or not (meta) since blobfest you can really get by using anything since AoE cap and skill lag.

I’m not sure you understood my point at all.

Using active defenses means you can use more offensive stats and by that definition it means a move to zerker. Condition build are a different story since they only need 1 stat to be effective hence they don’t need to build anything else really so they can go tanky stats without punishment. I don’t think you understand my point since you said that zerk groups get owned more than defensive group. But that is untrue it depends on the level of skill.

Nikaido.3457:

The only build (well, I mean, in this case, class actually) that is even remotely considered meta in TPVP in your list is Thief. Ele have been kicked out of the tpvp meta and turned into freekills for a long time and mesmers have also been kinda weak to the condi meta. There is literally nothing more cringe inducing than doing soloq and seeing more than one ele in your own team. They are tolerable in small amount but any decent thief that spots a glass canon ele will start shutting him down like crazy. In fact thieves are the reason why berserker is almost completely non-viable on other classes. Going berserker on other classes = playing the role of a thief, without the mobility of a thief, and the ability to get out of fights when the **** hits the fan. Anything that wears zerker in TPVP is just a subpar thief doing the role of a thief without being as good as a thief. [/quote]

Viability is one thing which the poster did not ask about. Meta is different. Say if you use Ele EVEN if that profession isn’t viable or would not be used in a high level tournament group what would the likely builds be. You would still go zerker just the way it is. Now if you placed viability then of course thief would shine more due to the profession mechanics in relation to map and team role. That is like saying zerker isn’t meta for Necro cause Necro isn’t viable. Although nobody would ever waste a space in a dungeon group for Necro but if someone does use Necro the meta build for them in PvE dungeon would be zerker. So although Ele sucks compared to other things if someone used Ele a zerker amulet would be used. This is all pre patch since the new patch just landed and it will take some time to see what is meta now or not. Solo q, team q, tournament are all different in terms of viability due to coordination. So something might be viable in solo q cause people are uncoordinated or just suck but not viable in say tournament level. So my post referred to an understand of these differences.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Bread.7516:

beGreen.4190:

Also asking me why dont I run support build with zerker is stupid. It doesn’t feel right, it’s clearly not what creator of the game intended and you guys know it

See my sig since apparently your assumption is better than a dungeon dev’s words.
or just this link http://i.imgur.com/g1rkIub.jpg

Sorry if gw2 isn’t your re-skinned [insert favorite typical spank and tank mmorpg here]

It is interesting that, as often as you quote that developer’s quote, he himself said in that SAME post that the other gear/builds have a place in the game. By the same token, if you agree with the dogma (and inappropriate generalization, if you are honest with yourself) that people that don’t use Berserker’s are “unskilled”, many of these developers “suck” at GW2 and are playing it “wrong.”

In short, he did not say that Berserker’s was the “intended” way to play GW2, but rather that it’s a valid way to play it, especially the more you know the content. His own approach to the game, why it may not be Berserker’s, is also as valid.

Not a dig at Berserker’s gear, but you have to place Mr. Hrouda’s words in the proper context. Also I don’t think the OP was saying that non-“zerk” groups should be as fast or as efficient. IMHO, Berserker’s should still remain a valid playstyle, but the other options at least made more attractive, if not essential (right now, direct damage has become “the essential role” so to speak, and the Professions who lack specific key support abilities lag behind and have it hard to make up with that with something else.)

CuRtoKy.8576:

Using active defenses means you can use more offensive stats and by that definition it means a move to zerker. Condition build are a different story since they only need 1 stat to be effective hence they don’t need to build anything else really so they can go tanky stats without punishment.

I’m really new to anything other than solo leveling and boss zergs, so I’m still trying to understand how everything works. Being new to the game, and being an older gamer that isn’t big on “reflex” gaming, I like the idea of a more forgiving stat build, but there are so many claims thrown around on the forums about this and that being broken that I’m having trouble figuring out what the real status of non zerker builds is.

For basic group content, open world, & casual PvP/EoTM, are condition/survival builds viable and easier to play, or do they give up too much DPS to be useful, or is the survival advantage just too little to make a difference even for less skilled plaerys?

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I think the best solution (for dungeon) is bring back the old gw1 system for mobs… gw1 mobs aren’t stupid at all, and cooperate very well each other.

Create mobs with actual class abilities/statistics/health, and make them cooperate with combo field and support abilities…. AND NOT SKIPPABLE PLEASE!!! XD

IMHO it would be a nice lessons in teamplay for newbies, and a nice challenge for players.

Btw sorry for my english if it’s unreadable, i’m not mother tongue.

DavidH.7380:

CuRtoKy.8576:

Using active defenses means you can use more offensive stats and by that definition it means a move to zerker. Condition build are a different story since they only need 1 stat to be effective hence they don’t need to build anything else really so they can go tanky stats without punishment.

I’m really new to anything other than solo leveling and boss zergs, so I’m still trying to understand how everything works. Being new to the game, and being an older gamer that isn’t big on “reflex” gaming, I like the idea of a more forgiving stat build, but there are so many claims thrown around on the forums about this and that being broken that I’m having trouble figuring out what the real status of non zerker builds is.

For basic group content, open world, & casual PvP/EoTM, are condition/survival builds viable and easier to play, or do they give up too much DPS to be useful, or is the survival advantage just too little to make a difference even for less skilled plaerys?

Berserker’s gear has it’s uses (it’s speed-running “meta” for a reason), and it’s great the more organized your group is. Even solo players do well with it if they know what they are facing and/or their Profession well. Some Professions have pretty good synergy with the gear too. Though you can certainly try out full Berserker’s gear, I would first consider your Profession and playstyle first before making a choice-it certainly shines when everybody else is also using it and things die super fast so they rarely have a chance to hinder your group very much (you will still have to dodge to be sure, as well as knowing the battles and how group skills affect each other with combo fields, etc.)

While I don’t believe in the “defensive gear is training wheels for Berserker’s” mantra, you can very well go for a mix of armor and trinkets with offensive and defensive stats. Say, Knight’s armor with Berserker’s trinkets.

Be aware that while there are many genuine one shotting mechanisms in this game, a “tanky” character can sometimes survive some of them, especially if of the high vitality sort. Some people do say it’s irrelevant for those high level encounters in which even people in Soldier’s get one shotted, but it’s not always the case that you will get one shotted in hardy armor.

Finally, don’t fall for the lie that all people that don’t use Berserker’s don’t know how to dodge. It’s a belittling and insulting generalization. You must learn to dodge decently well, even if using Knight’s or Soldier’s. Perhaps not be an “ace”, but being relatively good at dodging will make this game a much more fun experience for you (easier with V than double tapping, to be sure.)

I have fun in this game with any type of gear. Usually it’s all Profession and build dependant for me. I certainly don’t think “speedclear!” with Soldier’s, but most of the stats combinations have some use for some builds out there.

For soloing/roaming the map, any build is fun but do consider that one of the downsides of a full condition and no power build are inanimate objects (no condition works, though they can’t also be crit by power builds). Also, having high healing power and very low power, while it does work, may make mob killing a bit slower than you may like (though this is personal-perhaps you will enjoy yourself at that pace.)

(Condition builds have a hard stack cap, but this usually affects you negatively the larger your group becomes. Solo it’s actually a lot of damage with the right build and Profession.)

Create mobs with actual class abilities/statistics/health, and make them cooperate with combo field and support abilities…. AND NOT SKIPPABLE PLEASE!!! XD

Risen sentinels use rings of warding and drop banners of strength
Risen putrifiers pull you in
Risen hunters buff their allies with stability, might and throw a bouncing axe and spawn eagles
Risen elementalists apply protection to themselves
Risen mages use knockdown and damaging fields as area denial
Risen illusionists apply retaliation, aegis and massive area denial with chaos storm
Risen devastators deal high damage and CC

These are unskippable at a number of points in Arah.

Do you know who enjoys fighting these? Not your average player.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I even run 40+ fractals dont try to offend someone if dont know anything about him. Stacking has more reasons but main thing in dungeons is always as hight DPS as possible. That is how people do dungeons today.
And if you think otherwise then you are sadly naive or don’t do more den ,,AC and Lv20/38"

CuRtoKy.8576:

I think you just proved the point. Organized group even if they full party wipe is rare compared to PuG. Doing that would just punish PuGs even more causing more toxicity and people raging at PuGs in LFGs even more. Nobody wants that.

What would be better then? Unavoidable damage that reduces build diversity by a large margin? Wipe = game over means you actually have to play more defensive or take a greater risk with better (faster) rewards.

That is the point. GW2 is too easy it doesn’t mean that non zerk is the best for open world it just means that what you bring doesn’t really matter since it is extremely easy. That isn’t to say non zerk is the best it just means that you can get by with anything really.

Open world, I agree. But when someone says that fotm50 is too easy it probably means he runs with too much defense (guardians). PvE has a lot of balance issue which can appear as the game being too easy.

You said you don’t see zerker used as a meta but I’m saying you do see it for certain professions. It is meta for them. There is just more a bit more you can do in PvP in terms of builds but either way you can’t expect a single game mode to have all play styles and builds available for you that is the point. Decap engi works in PvP can you use it anywhere else? No. Trying to complain or make it so that you can use that build and be viable in PvE and WvW is just silly. Some things will be better in one game mode versus the other.

People in this forum complain that everything except zerker is useless to use. My counter argument is that in other game modes it’s different. Bringing up the examples of zerker builds in pvp is pointless because it doesn’t achieve anything..

You have to have zerker or dps in your group otherwise you do kitten for damage anyhow really. So how isn’t that meta just because other people choose to use something else because of their skill level. Same happens for PvE. Like 1v1 you would use zerker that is meta since if you are skilled you only need dps and some utilities. Small group play you would have zerker like 10v10, 20v20 or something since you won’t take damage from a large amount of people and it is easier to survive through utilities or dodges. It is part of the meta. Meta =/= only 1 thing. Now in a 60v60 blobfest or 100v100 map blob skill lag fight then yeah you might run some tanky stats too since if you fail you get hit like by 30 people or something. Either way that doesn’t change what is good or not (meta) since blobfest you can really get by using anything since AoE cap and skill lag.

Sorry but according to my definition of word ‘meta’, meta refers to the most popular techniques. Is zerker the most popular in wvw? I honestly doubt that.

Using active defenses means you can use more offensive stats and by that definition it means a move to zerker. Condition build are a different story since they only need 1 stat to be effective hence they don’t need to build anything else really so they can go tanky stats without punishment. I don’t think you understand my point since you said that zerk groups get owned more than defensive group. But that is untrue it depends on the level of skill.

I thought that was a logical conclusion that offensive groups with comparable skill level to defensive groups wipe more often. I cannot imagine it being the other way. If your group has enough defence, wipe might not be achievable at all.

hendo.1940:

Risen sentinels use rings of warding and drop banners of strength
Risen putrifiers pull you in
Risen hunters buff their allies with stability, might and throw a bouncing axe and spawn eagles
Risen elementalists apply protection to themselves
Risen mages use knockdown and damaging fields as area denial
Risen illusionists apply retaliation, aegis and massive area denial with chaos storm
Risen devastators deal high damage and CC

These are unskippable at a number of points in Arah.

Do you know who enjoys fighting these? Not your average player.

Don’t forget that rise mages heal themselves and their allies with those area denial attacks.

What you are asking for is to have a trinity system or at least a part of one in GW2. This was against the entire design decision the game was based on. The reasoning is that they didn’t want people to wait around for specific roles in order to do content.

Some of the changes you’re asking for, these ones in particular:

beGreen.4190:

-Changing at least one encounter in every path in every dungeon to have type of damage that can’t be mitigated by dodging to make healing and boons more relevant (i am talking snowstorm in svanir fractal, homing missiles, melee attacks that can’t be dodged etc. )

-Adjusting traits, abilites and stats to a level where being full time supporter is not being laughed at, increasing impact of healing power and adding utility and healing skills that can be used to effectively support others (like guardian’s healing breeze but actually useful)

-Adjusting traits, abilities and stats so being more sturdy doesn’t mean one can’t dodge… for example traits that increase threat making boss more likely to attack “the tank” or control abilities that involve getting hit to prevent damage on teammates.

Would essentially create an environment where people are now sitting around looking for a healer or tank spec.

Now maybe you do want a trinity back in the game, and that would be a vaild opinion. It’s just bugging me that people think that zerker is the core of all of their problems and so therefore they must be nerfed. The “nerf” did nothing to change the meta not because it’s OP, but because the current lack of trinity only leaves one viable role, and that’s DPS. You can nerf zerker all you want, but it will never change the fact that any stats that are not related to DPS are currently useless in PvE and always will be. The most they can do without introducing trinity roles is make conditions more viable by making them do as much or more damage than zerker. The meta will still not have changed much as it will still be all DPS or gtfo. Only the nature of how people do damage will change.

Besides that, the game in its current state is actually quite fun except that they could make much more difficult content to do. The meta itself isn’t even that bad. When you are playing what little challenging content there is and you are using proper meta builds, things start to become fairly complex and require a lot of coordination. It’s not as simple as huurr durr wear zerker and press 1. The people who choose to optimize spend quite a lot of time figuring out the best way to use each of the classes and each of their abilities. There is quite a lot of versatility in what most of the classes in the game can provide and as someone who plays every class, I can say that it has been a lot of fun figuring out how to play each of them to their highest potential.

So, really, for those of you who keep complaining about zerker, stop it, please. You don’t understand what you’re talking about. What you actually want is a trinity so that there are more useful roles other than DPS. This is a valid opinion. There is nothing wrong with having that opinion, but please understand what your problem actually is. So long as trinity roles do not exist, building for DPS will be the most effective way to do PvE.

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I even run 40+ fractals dont try to offend someone if dont know anything about him. Stacking has more reasons but main thing in dungeons is always as hight DPS as possible. That is how people do dungeons today.
And if you think otherwise then you are sadly naive or don’t do more den ,,AC and Lv20/38"

You don’t use reflects or boons? Just sit in a corner and mash 1-5?

My party probably sucks at DPS’ing then, we have to use reflects/debuffs/cc and boons. Please learn me daros senpai

You know no one is forcing you to run berserker right? Just don’t join the groups that ask for it.

I honestly like the way it is without the trinity. I do miss my old paladin tank/healer but it’s nice to NOT have to wait around for a tank and/or healer to come around to start a dungeon run.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I even run 40+ fractals dont try to offend someone if dont know anything about him. Stacking has more reasons but main thing in dungeons is always as hight DPS as possible. That is how people do dungeons today.
And if you think otherwise then you are sadly naive or don’t do more den ,,AC and Lv20/38"

You don’t use reflects or boons? Just sit in a corner and mash 1-5?

My party probably sucks at DPS’ing then, we have to use reflects/debuffs/cc and boons. Please learn me daros senpai

Do you use reflect every time you stack? No only if situation requires it.
What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.
CC? If you need cc while stacking then your DPS really has to suck. Only in very few situations it is really needed becouse in most of time everything dies really fast and spending time on CC just makes killing slower.
As i said. Stacking has more reasons but DPS and killing everything as fast as possible is the main thing in dungeons. In +90% of scenarios hight DPS is all you need.

daros.3407:

Do you use reflect every time you stack? No only if situation requires it.
What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.
CC? If you need cc while stacking then your DPS really has to suck. Only in very few situations it is really needed becouse in most of time everything dies really fast and spending time on CC just makes killing slower.
As i said. Stacking has more reasons but DPS and killing everything as fast as possible is the main thing in dungeons. In +90% of scenarios hight DPS is all you need.

We’re talking about fractals, aren’t we? Btw my post was entirely satire. The majority of times that you stack in fractals, you will be utilizing team support and cc. At least, that’s what the good groups do. I’m not sure about how yours do it.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Do you use reflect every time you stack? No only if situation requires it.
What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.
CC? If you need cc while stacking then your DPS really has to suck. Only in very few situations it is really needed becouse in most of time everything dies really fast and spending time on CC just makes killing slower.
As i said. Stacking has more reasons but DPS and killing everything as fast as possible is the main thing in dungeons. In +90% of scenarios hight DPS is all you need.

We’re talking about fractals, aren’t we? Btw my post was entirely satire. The majority of times that you stack in fractals, you will be utilizing team support and cc. At least, that’s what the good groups do. I’m not sure about how yours do it.

I am talking about all Dungeons and fractals. And does your group stack in hammer fractal in corners to KILL chanters? Do you stack in dredge fractals in cornest to KILL dredge? Do you stack in watter fractal to KILL Kraits? And what about shaman fractal and stacking to kill grawls?…..Do i really have to continue and name every fractal?
Good group stack not only for ,,utilizing team support" but to kill.
But i never said i am talking only about fractals on the contrary i said in begining ,,everywhere"

daros.3407:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I even run 40+ fractals dont try to offend someone if dont know anything about him. Stacking has more reasons but main thing in dungeons is always as hight DPS as possible. That is how people do dungeons today.
And if you think otherwise then you are sadly naive or don’t do more den ,,AC and Lv20/38"

You don’t use reflects or boons? Just sit in a corner and mash 1-5?

My party probably sucks at DPS’ing then, we have to use reflects/debuffs/cc and boons. Please learn me daros senpai

What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.

And in trinity games, you have healers to support DPS. You have tanks to support DPS.

Why should GW2 be any different?

hendo.1940:

daros.3407:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

daros.3407:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Prefect.3681:

Huh? We just have to do DPS now so why would we need these?

Either bad sarcasm or I don’t get it, is it even possible to just dps something? Like, anywhere?

Everywhere. In all dungeons and fractals only thing you need is to stack in corner and DPS as much as you can. Nothing else is needed.

Misconception and bad understanding of what stacking is, why it is used and why groups rather run Berserker than tank specs. Do you even run dungeons and fractals outside of AC and Lv20/38?

I even run 40+ fractals dont try to offend someone if dont know anything about him. Stacking has more reasons but main thing in dungeons is always as hight DPS as possible. That is how people do dungeons today.
And if you think otherwise then you are sadly naive or don’t do more den ,,AC and Lv20/38"

You don’t use reflects or boons? Just sit in a corner and mash 1-5?

My party probably sucks at DPS’ing then, we have to use reflects/debuffs/cc and boons. Please learn me daros senpai

What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.

And in trinity games, you have healers to support DPS. You have tanks to support DPS.

Why should GW2 be any different?

I don’t know what you mean by you question. Could you explain please? :-)

daros.3407:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Do you use reflect every time you stack? No only if situation requires it.
What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.
CC? If you need cc while stacking then your DPS really has to suck. Only in very few situations it is really needed becouse in most of time everything dies really fast and spending time on CC just makes killing slower.
As i said. Stacking has more reasons but DPS and killing everything as fast as possible is the main thing in dungeons. In +90% of scenarios hight DPS is all you need.

We’re talking about fractals, aren’t we? Btw my post was entirely satire. The majority of times that you stack in fractals, you will be utilizing team support and cc. At least, that’s what the good groups do. I’m not sure about how yours do it.

I am talking about all Dungeons and fractals. And does your group stack in hammer fractal in corners to KILL chanters? Do you stack in dredge fractals in cornest to KILL dredge? Do you stack in watter fractal to KILL Kraits? And what about shaman fractal and stacking to kill grawls?…..Do i really have to continue and name every fractal?
Good group stack not only for ,,utilizing team support" but to kill.
But i never said i am talking only about fractals on the contrary i said in begining ,,everywhere"

I don’t even know what you’re arguing about anymore. I was simply saying that you do more than ‘DPS in a corner’. If that statement were true, then you would just sit in a corner and mash your weapon skills. We both (seem) to know this is not the case, so why are you arguing with me?

Statement: Stacking does not unconditionally allow you to just mash your face against your keyboard and kill things. It quite often requires coordination of utility and cc.

Since your english annoys me and I have no idea what you’re trying to argue about, I’ll just leave you alone now.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

daros.3407:

Do you use reflect every time you stack? No only if situation requires it.
What boons do you use? Half of them are to support DPS.
CC? If you need cc while stacking then your DPS really has to suck. Only in very few situations it is really needed becouse in most of time everything dies really fast and spending time on CC just makes killing slower.
As i said. Stacking has more reasons but DPS and killing everything as fast as possible is the main thing in dungeons. In +90% of scenarios hight DPS is all you need.

We’re talking about fractals, aren’t we? Btw my post was entirely satire. The majority of times that you stack in fractals, you will be utilizing team support and cc. At least, that’s what the good groups do. I’m not sure about how yours do it.

I am talking about all Dungeons and fractals. And does your group stack in hammer fractal in corners to KILL chanters? Do you stack in dredge fractals in cornest to KILL dredge? Do you stack in watter fractal to KILL Kraits? And what about shaman fractal and stacking to kill grawls?…..Do i really have to continue and name every fractal?
Good group stack not only for ,,utilizing team support" but to kill.
But i never said i am talking only about fractals on the contrary i said in begining ,,everywhere"

I don’t even know what you’re arguing about anymore. I was simply saying that you do more than ‘DPS in a corner’. If that statement were true, then you would just sit in a corner and mash your weapon skills. We both (seem) to know this is not the case, so why are you arguing with me?

I could ask the same. At very begining i said that stacking have of course more reasons then just DPS. I think we really can stop arguing :-)

PS: And since in almost every of your post you are offensive ,,your english annoys, learn me daros senpai, Do you even run dungeons…." instead leading constructive discussion I’ll just leave you alone now.

SkylightMoon.1980:

TheDaiBish.9735:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Izdubar.9540:

If you need to feel needed so badly, virtually every other MMO on the market uses the tired and archaic trinity system.

At least there was build diversity and allowed the devs to make interesting bosses because of the existence of roles. This isn’t true about gw2. There is no need to have a healer because one doesn’t exist but also the bosses don’t hit you hard enough to need one because the devs made a game that doesn’t have roles. Because of this, the top priority and only priority of every fight is DPS. Thats quite stupid, and boring.

Probably the single biggest change this game needs is a revamp to this problem in PVE.

Wrong.

Go to a build calculator, forget about the encounter mechanics at the moment, and see how many builds you can make centered around different things, such as CC, support, damage, hybrids.

It’s the encounter mechanics not bringing out the full depth of the combat system. Not the other way around.

As for the Trinity offering interesting encounters, name a few encounter mechanics that required the Trinity to be implemented, and thus couldn’t be replicated in GW2.

lol. no im right about the trinity still being better than the current state of gw2’s dry pve. Bosses that output high dps and therefore require a healer couldn’t be implemented in gw2. Currently with the new sigils/runes/traits for ele, you could make something that is very healer-ish, but then again the devs don’t want roles in this game so I doubt theyd make a fight for it.

So why do you people keep pushing for something that’s not going to happen?
The majority don’t want this type of game or the trinity – if they did they wouldn’t be here and would be playing “Generic trinity MMO number 999” – The fact that players are here and playing speaks volumes for itself.

You’re not right about anything – you just have an opinion – and you feel that the trinity would be better than what we have now.

I too have an opinion and think that you are undeniably wrong. I would also ask you why you don’t ask yourself if this game is for you?

daros.3407:

Problem is they can’t just totaly nerf zerker so it would be useless or change mechanics of dungeons so full zerker have no chance becouse people spended thousands for full ascended zerker gears. If they would do it, it would be end of GW2 becouse they would just destroy everything we players worked on for last year.
Such changes would have to come with something what they did with magic find gear. They would have to let people to change their stats for free first.

You do realize that even if zerker is nerfed players will hop onto assasin’s and the meta will remain unbroken.

You can’t nerf a set to fix what is a mentality issue :

Even if the game is changed the meta will simply be something else.
Like full zerker and 1 PVT char with CCs. Or full rampager’s – or something. There will always be a best way to power through the content.
This best way will always be enforced by the people that care about time vs profit.
Let’s stop beating a dead horse already – the zerker meta isn’t about a zerker set – it just appears to be that on the surface.
The “zerker meta” embodies the philosophy of not wanting to waste your time and getting those rewards as fast as possible. No matter how the game changes this kind of thinking will remain in the game – we’ll just call it the " something else meta" and it will still be both loved and hated by different groups of players.

Harper.4173:

You can’t nerf a set to fix what is a mentality issue :

I do not think it is a mentality issue, or at least not only a mentality issue. I think it is an encounter/mob design issue.