Guild Wars 2

Similar to the magic find swaps. Select a new stat combo for free.

Some of us can’t afford to regear. I/We’ve just about finished grinding for our ascended zerker weapons/armor (in this non grindy game).

The tradeoff people based the “should I craft zerker or pvt etc” decision is not the same tradeoff any longer. Many people would not make the same decision again.

I just thought of an idea that I feel would immediately stop the zerker meta without having to nerf or buff anything. The solution is, remove respawn from dungeons and fractals. If you wipe, you’re dead, exit instance. This will make teams that focus on surviving much more viable, while speed clears will still be possible, however this time doing a speed clear will require more thought and skill than currently.

Thoughts?

Bad people wearing PVT will still die. Decent players with bumrush content anyways. That doesn’t nerf zerk speedrun parties. Your point?

This will only make parties be filled with Battle Standard warriors. zerker obviously

How about resistances on armour/gems/whatever tied to specific conditions? Like a bleeding resistance, fire resistance etc., and the opposite with weaknesses to conditions. This might add unnecessary complication to the game though.

Or making condition builds worthwhile against bosses since as it is now they have no effect. I suppose this has already been discussed.

Lenor.8197:

Bad people wearing PVT will still die.

No they won’t

The zerker meta is not an issue – make zerker less valid and people will migrate to the next BIS gear.
The issue here is that the casuals and bads will never complete content. Plus there’s the issue of dying in a dungeon.
5 man group – 1 dies – kick – add new live member – continue.
How would that be good?

I’d say Defiant is one of the biggest problems in dungeons, if Defiant would be removed you could actually support through, blinds, weakness, fear, interrupts and such, That would make support build a little stronger, not on par but stronger and it would make thief/necros atleast be wanted some more for interruptions, Hammer warriors would be something you could consider as well and so on.

If attacks happened more frequently and were a little less telegraphed and bosses were vulnerable to interrupts, then a whole new meta may emerge. (But it would just be a different meta – just as rigid as the current one)

If and when the meta changes, the same people moaning about zerkers will simply moan about the new optimal set up. The cycle will never end.

if wanting to alter it just lower the bottom end of armour rating mitigation and have mobs react more to high damage, in short mobs hit the dps out of preferance and zerk in more glass cannon.

Harper.4173:

The issue here is that the casuals and bads will never complete content. Plus there’s the issue of dying in a dungeon.

So your saying everyone who isn’t in Zerker gear is either a casual or a bad?
Interesting.

Aajolea.8132:

if wanting to alter it just lower the bottom end of armour rating mitigation and have mobs react more to high damage, in short mobs hit the dps out of preferance and zerk in more glass cannon.

This won’t change anything really. Watch the speedclear videos. They aren’t getting hit really to begin with. All this will do is stop the bad people from limping their way through with zerker gear, and allow the good teams to continue to do what they’ve done. My wish is that boss fights all became more like lupi, where if you don’t know the fight you’ll be on your face in zerker gear, instead of CoF where you can roll your face on the keyboard in zerker gear and win. However, this would take a lot more time than I expect anet to put into any single dungeon at this point, so…we’ll see what we get.

Part of the problem with zerkers is how the damage is calculated. Direct damage stacks forever, unlimited, regardless of how many players you have, whereas condition damage has serious limitations making builds that use conditions less viable, especially in dungeons and world bosses. The game is designed, be it intentional or not, to make zerkers the most viable build, unless you always want to run solo, which then other builds might be more viable.

In a group, say the champ train in Queens, at level 40 in green/yellow gear, my guard, who is not a zerker spec, more balanced, already was dealing more damage than my condition spec necro who’s at 80 with will exo/asc gear if running the same content. Running solo, or WvW, my necro is awesome. Not so much in groups.

Put more bosses like Mai Trin and the fractal lava boss and you will stop to see 10K life glass canon class. These are the only encounters where dps doesn’t matter and players suck so much that I’m sick of this zerk meta (though I play myself zerk for most part of the game).

Leamas.5803:

In a group, say the champ train in Queens, at level 40 in green/yellow gear, my guard, who is not a zerker spec, more balanced, already was dealing more damage than my condition spec necro who’s at 80 with will exo/asc gear if running the same content. Running solo, or WvW, my necro is awesome. Not so much in groups.

In Queensdale you do nearly the same damage with knights gear than with berserker since crit-damage scales down, crit-chance however not.

Name in use already.7294:

I just thought of an idea that I feel would immediately stop the zerker meta without having to nerf or buff anything. The solution is, remove respawn from dungeons and fractals. If you wipe, you’re dead, exit instance. This will make teams that focus on surviving much more viable, while speed clears will still be possible, however this time doing a speed clear will require more thought and skill than currently.

Thoughts?

Making things more high stakes isn’t the answer. That will just push players to be more elitist.

The reason full offense gear is so readily accepted is that so much of the damage in this game is either reflectable or comes in big chunks that can be dodged.

Damage from dungeons needs to be re-tuned so that it comes frequently in small amounts so that dodges alone aren’t the saving grace that they are now.

Azzer.8137:

I’d say Defiant is one of the biggest problems in dungeons, if Defiant would be removed you could actually support through, blinds, weakness, fear, interrupts and such, That would make support build a little stronger, not on par but stronger and it would make thief/necros atleast be wanted some more for interruptions, Hammer warriors would be something you could consider as well and so on.

That wouldn’t change the meta though. My zerker guard running 10/30/0/5/25 in full zerker, can do 5 blinds back to back, and even more if adds are killed to renew my VoJ. The zerker meta, still brings all the support you need. What people want however, is to wear PVT gear and face tank stuff.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Azzer.8137:

I’d say Defiant is one of the biggest problems in dungeons, if Defiant would be removed you could actually support through, blinds, weakness, fear, interrupts and such, That would make support build a little stronger, not on par but stronger and it would make thief/necros atleast be wanted some more for interruptions, Hammer warriors would be something you could consider as well and so on.

That wouldn’t change the meta though. My zerker guard running 10/30/0/5/25 in full zerker, can do 5 blinds back to back, and even more if adds are killed to renew my VoJ. The zerker meta, still brings all the support you need. What people want however, is to wear PVT gear and face tank stuff.

Yea, I love my Guardian, but they are really broken in PvE. It’s easy to bring a max DPS spec that also brings all the utility you can want from a Guard. Not only are their utility skills so powerful, but the traits to lower the CDs of shouts and consecrations are both easy to pick up without losing nearly any damage.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, I love my Guardian, but they are really broken in PvE. It’s easy to bring a max DPS spec that also brings all the utility you can want from a Guard. Not only are their utility skills so powerful, but the traits to lower the CDs of shouts and consecrations are both easy to pick up without losing nearly any damage.

I think guards are in a good spot. If they couldn’t bring all that utility, groups looking for optimal comps would leave them out. Since guards don’t bring offensive buffs like warriors, fat might stacking like eles and huge damage numbers like FGS, their only worth is in their defensive abilities. And defensive abilities beings Reflects/blinds/blocks(while doing good dps, but the dps is reliant on other classes buffing them with fury, banners and might).

Well, what the OP is proposing might be a tad harsh, and has problems already described above.

My proposal, and this worked quite well in my Dungeons & Dragons campaign that lasted many a year, is to reduce the damage produced proportional to the square root of the overall health of the toon.

For example, if you’re at twenty-five percent health you would only produce fifty percent of your normal damage output. At fifty percent you would only produce seventy-one percent.. This would really scare the glass cannon builds since now you’re going to lose the dps race far, far more often. But it would encourage support and healing, and well-rounded players and teams.

Just my two cents.

Henri Blanche.8276:

Well, what the OP is proposing might be a tad harsh, and has problems already described above.

My proposal, and this worked quite well in my Dungeons & Dragons campaign that lasted many a year, is to reduce the damage produced proportional to the square root of the overall health of the toon.

For example, if you’re at twenty-five percent health you would only produce fifty percent of your normal damage output. At fifty percent you would only produce seventy-one percent.. This would really scare the glass cannon builds since now you’re going to lose the dps race far, far more often. But it would encourage support and healing, and well-rounded players and teams.

Just my two cents.

Some issues with this. It won’t effect the top tier dungeon guilds, since they keep their scholar rune buffs majority of the time. This would only effect the people who complain about the meta. And would only cause less people to run zerker.

And for the record. If I don’t ask for gear check, 90% of pugs I run into aren’t even using zerker. So why do people feel the need to change stuff.

The solution to this has already been discussed in many topics. ArenaNet needs to have mobs attack more frequently rather than in huge chunks. The reason we run berserkers gear is because there is NO need for survivability if we can dodge 99% of the abilities and attacks. Anything we cant dodge we can blind, reflect, or block. For us to stack toughness and vitality atm would just be kind of pointless in PvE to be honest.

Zerker = high risk and high reward (timewise)
Defensive stuff = low risk and low reward (timewise)

Working as intended.

I’m fine with nerfing zerkers but they better not nerf speedrunning.

I’d hate to see artificial barriers to slow down speed groups.

Rezz.8019:

Zerker = high risk and high reward (timewise)
Defensive stuff = low risk and low reward (timewise)

Working as intended.

The problem with it is that Zerker doesn’t really offer high risk atm in GW2. Everything is able to be dodged, blocked, or reflected. If they actually had instances where you couldn’t avoid taking at least a few auto attacks I would agree.

All they have to do is remove all the exploiting (skipping, stacking etc) and people will realize that the meta is more than just glasscannons.

Frostpyro.5942:

Rezz.8019:

Zerker = high risk and high reward (timewise)
Defensive stuff = low risk and low reward (timewise)

Working as intended.

The problem with it is that Zerker doesn’t really offer high risk atm in GW2. Everything is able to be dodged, blocked, or reflected. If they actually had instances where you couldn’t avoid taking at least a few auto attacks I would agree.

For most pugs it seems to be high enough risk to scare them away from using it. I wished most people used zerker gear…. Its just not the case.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Frostpyro.5942:

Rezz.8019:

Zerker = high risk and high reward (timewise)
Defensive stuff = low risk and low reward (timewise)

Working as intended.

The problem with it is that Zerker doesn’t really offer high risk atm in GW2. Everything is able to be dodged, blocked, or reflected. If they actually had instances where you couldn’t avoid taking at least a few auto attacks I would agree.

For most pugs it seems to be high enough risk to scare them away from using it. I wished most people used zerker gear…. Its just not the case.

This proves the point everyones try to make. This should not be how it is, zerker should not be the ONLY build, hence why it needs changing in some way.

Name in use already.7294:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Frostpyro.5942:

Rezz.8019:

Zerker = high risk and high reward (timewise)
Defensive stuff = low risk and low reward (timewise)

Working as intended.

The problem with it is that Zerker doesn’t really offer high risk atm in GW2. Everything is able to be dodged, blocked, or reflected. If they actually had instances where you couldn’t avoid taking at least a few auto attacks I would agree.

For most pugs it seems to be high enough risk to scare them away from using it. I wished most people used zerker gear…. Its just not the case.

This proves the point everyones try to make. This should not be how it is, zerker should not be the ONLY build, hence why it needs changing in some way.

It isn’t the only build. It is the go to build for those players and groups capable of using it.

You can make a non zerk group and run the content. Someone can make a zerk group and do the content faster. I’m not sure why another group clearing content faster then you in your non dps set up is such a massive issue.

There will always be a most effective build and group comp. If zerker gets the chop, some other set up will become optimal and everyone will start crying about that build.

We all know zerk is the meta born out of increasing player skill and knowledge about the variety of mechanics in game. If not zerk, it would be something else. People raised concerns not to nerf zerk but rather to buff other stat. These cause another problem that the content might become less challenging. So I have a feeling zerk will get nerf after all. My question is how it should be done, what is acceptable to you?
1. Nerf power (by reducing the value)
2. Nerf precision (by reducing the value)
3. Nerf critical damage (by reducing the value)
4. Combination of the above

None of the above.

Yeah, nerfing stats would make other builds worth even less so berz would still dominate.

I hear you. I think if Anet wants to balance every single stat, it may be quite boring because there is no progression that one might pursue, in this case, the meta Zerk, or other meta for that matters. So it is quite a conundrum.

Fenrir.3609:

None of the above.

QFT

Was it really necessary to make an entirely new post instead of just posting on the other one where people are discussing this topic?

I hope they delete the +critdmg, because it makes the berserker to strong, and replace it with vitality or something else.

Make content where ignoring defensive stats puts you at meaningful risk.

Zerks should be able to succeed… if their performance is flawless.

Just changing the pace at which enemies attack will shift the balance dramatically.

Like Fenrir said, none of the above. A lot of people make the mistake that if something is good, the only solution to make it more fair is to nerf it. That’s not the case. The reason zerkers are allowed to roam around the world basically naked without any protection (Health, armor, healing) is because the bosses and other monsters do not hand out many condition effects to players. And the condition damage they actually do give to players is very minimal.

One of two things needs to happen for this game to become fair.

1. Enemies need way more condition damage and they need to do condition damage often.

2. Support needs to be buffed. And buffed really hard, because it absolutely sucks right now.

It would be wise to do both of these things instead of just one, but I’d settle for one at this point.

Give enemies more toughness and less vitality, more unique skill mechanics, trade one-shottyness for faster but weaker attacks… etc.

The key to balancing out builds in PvE lies in a change of content. As long as enemies have high HP and do slow one-shot attacks, DPS and dodge will remain the best strategy.

The best way would be to simply add resistance to certain mobs. Such as resistance to direct damage and so on.

That would both decrease the overpowering effectiveness of zerker while at the same time making conditions more viable.

Heavy diminishing returns on stacking the same stats comes to mind. For instance, wearing 4 or more berserker items has 10% reduced stat threshold on each following berserker piece.

This would do 2 things, make people think about their characters beyond just stacking the most OP set currently in the game, and promote build diversity using multiple armor types. As it stands now, berserker gear just makes the game’s PvE the laughing stock of MMOs.

Further clarity: This diminishing return applies to all armor types, not just berserker. This way no one would want more than 4 pieces of the same type.

Frostpyro.5942:

Was it really necessary to make an entirely new post instead of just posting on the other one where people are discussing this topic?

The other post discussing this topic was somewhat buried in nowhere. I was hoping to have a explicit title so players can share their view of how to, if that’s really need to be done. I also hope that Anet will consider some of these wonderful ideas from players.

Aeonblade.8709:

Heavy diminishing returns on stacking the same stats comes to mind.

I would rather more situational solutions that universally applying diminishing returns. There’s no point in dethroning Zerker only to mount Celestial on the best-at-all-times throne.

Nike.2631:

Aeonblade.8709:

Heavy diminishing returns on stacking the same stats comes to mind.

I would rather more situational solutions that universally applying diminishing returns. There’s no point in dethroning Zerker only to mount Celestial on the best-at-all-times throne.

Reread my post, edited for clarity. Celestial would still suck either way.

Aeonblade.8709:

Reread my post, edited for clarity. Celestial would still suck either way.

Point stands: A static limitation breeds static solutions. I’d rather more variety in content than create ‘mix your gear like so to avoid the diminishing returns’.

Nike.2631:

Aeonblade.8709:

Reread my post, edited for clarity. Celestial would still suck either way.

Point stands: A static limitation breeds static solutions. I’d rather more variety in content than create ‘mix your gear like so to avoid the diminishing returns’.

At least it’s better than stack berserker and snooze at the keyboard. People would be wearing at least 3 different types of gear and have to think about which 3 types work for them.

Here’s how we nerf berserker …..

Stop making content that is a DPS race and make content that actually utilizes Support and Control.

Remove Unshakeable and Defiant. Give boss encounters access to boons and conditions.

Congratulations you’ve nerfed the need for berserkers!

TexZero.7910:

Here’s how we nerf berserker …..

Stop making content that is a DPS race and make content that actually utilizes Support and Control.

Remove Unshakeable and Defiant. Give boss encounters access to boons and conditions.

Congratulations you’ve nerfed the need for berserkers!

This is the best option, would like to see that but I don’t see it happening personally.

TexZero.7910:

Here’s how we nerf berserker …..

Stop making content that is a DPS race and make content that actually utilizes Support and Control.

Remove Unshakeable and Defiant. Give boss encounters access to boons and conditions.

Congratulations you’ve nerfed the need for berserkers!

[loud][applause] And please give bosses AI superior to that of a double slot toaster.[/applause][/loud]