Guild Wars 2

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

Fenrir.3609:

Umut.5471:

as long as it’s not ascended, it is easy to re-roll another stat. exotics are cheap as hell.

People have ascended. So it is an issue.

More of an issue because this is barely a month after Ascended was released – barely longer than the time gate for Medium/Heavy, and almost exactly the time gate for Light.

Its a huge middle finger to anybody who crafted their Ascended. AN just want to be left to their casual, gem-buying playerbase and make the “hardcore” speedrunners quit.

spoj.9672:

All is vain.

This is coming around because players are using the same set of gear. So they’re increasing diversity by making all sets alike.

K.

Well, comparing a CHANGE to a set of armor (Zerker) to the DESTRUCTION of a set of armor (MF) would be like comparing APPLES to ORANGES.

If it is just a change, I don’t think that they are required to let you change them. If it is a total deletion, then yes.

A nerf or change is just that. What if they came out with a new ubber stat set. Everyone will complain because they have something inferior to that.

The game is going to evolve. So be it.

Well, the magic find gear was a different case, since the stat was completely removed from the gear, so they had to offer players the choice for a new gear.

But anyway, welcome to the great world of vertical gear progression and its marvelous benefits. If you want / have to change to a new gear set, you’re screwed.

Old Bones.5140:

Well, comparing a CHANGE to a set of armor (Zerker) to the DESTRUCTION of a set of armor (MF) would be like comparing APPLES to ORANGES.

The sets that had MF on had the MF changed to a different stats. I’m not sure on all stat varients, but I believe Wayfarer’s (Toughness, Vitality & MF) became Dire (Toughness, Vitality & Cond damage). So it wasn’t destruction, it was a change. The prefix of the set name still exists.

Yet the people who used this set got to completely change rather than just having the magic find converted to condition damage. “evolving” gear.

It’s only fair if Berserker’s – and any other stats affected by the change – are allowed to be converted also.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

lol. Just lol. Can you swap your stats on your warrior rabbit armor when you realise those stats are dumb?. Also, noone talks about “destroying zerkers”. They want to adjust zerker gear, so you aren’t forced to run zerker everywhere and all the time.

Even if it´s only 5% better then the second best option, it would still be the best. And change nothing.
Still the same boring content, still the same problems. Still useless support/heal/cc.

Max possibel dps will always be the meta and most wanted build. Let it be zerker, or zerker and 3 parts of pvt/knights if the content gets more difficult.

If they don´t change alot of pve mechanics they can nerf what they want. Healing/Support/CC will stay useless.

Or as the Antimeta, nearly op by facetanking everything without any dogeroll or encounter knowlegde.

they can add one-time stat selection for ascended zerker gears only, that can be the solution. it’s good that zerker only meta is being removed from the game. speedruns and skips(mostly glitches) mustn’t exist for a challenging, harder gameplay.

Norjena.5172:

Still the same boring content, still the same problems. Still useless support/heal/cc.

Indeed. Toughness, Vitality & Healing will always be underwhelmed in PvE until they give offensive benefits to them, or reinstate the trinity (lol).

The solution isn’t to change Berserker, Assassin etc. It’s to revamp the useless sets. But they can’t do that, the casual gem-buying player has just finished grinding their exotic sets!

I don’t expect massive changes to the berserker gear stats. If anything, maybe a hard or soft cap on crit percentage. I believe that, if anything, crit percentage in excess of 100% is perhaps too much of a good thing. Also, that is a change that could be made without affecting PvP at all, and direct damage builds are not the number one target of dev attention or player ire in PvP.

I do expect some changes to mobs. It’s possible these changes will dovetail with the changes to make some mobs more easily dealt with via condition damage. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if that change will be the sum total of the “adjustment” to the PvE meta.

If in fact the massive changes I don’t expect happen anyway, I’d be in favor of a free switch.

Umut.5471:

they can add one-time stat selection for ascended zerker gears only, that can be the solution. it’s good that zerker only meta is being removed from the game. speedruns and skips(mostly glitches) mustn’t exist for a challenging, harder gameplay.

If u don´t play zerk/rampager/assasin…which content get´s more challenging then?

Even if Berserker is often easy to play, it´s still the hardest to play. Sad but true.

And there is no way to make healing/support/cc viable at the moment. They have to change alot of mechanics. Before they don´t this, max possibel (to play) dpsbuild will always be superior and most wanted.

Conditionbuilds…the only 1 which should to the same dps as berserkers is rampager. All others have got at least 1 defensive stat and dire for example deals much more dps then PVT.

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

They actually said they’re destroying zerker. They’re not doing it right by changing the game.

Oh well

Too bad so sad

Non zerk community will say zerk doesn’t deserve anything and we will all wait for an answer for months and they’ll say they felt it was necessary and stop talking about it.

Look see I have a crystal ball.

For MF changes it went

Explorers went to assassins and Travelers went to Dires.

But the MF STAT WENT TOTALLY AWAY. It was just not a change. So a change to a stat is not the same as a total deletion of a stat. So if they change a percentage of what it does or change how it is processed that is all it is, A CHANGE.

I don’t give a flip because I am not a 1 smasher or rely on pure DPS.

this is what you get for putting all your eggs in one basket.

nobody told you to, you just followed a trend like a lemming.

nerf-lol.

Anet should let you switch to w/e stats you want regardless when you use Ascended armor. It takes a lot of time and money to make……

Norjena.5172:

Umut.5471:

they can add one-time stat selection for ascended zerker gears only, that can be the solution. it’s good that zerker only meta is being removed from the game. speedruns and skips(mostly glitches) mustn’t exist for a challenging, harder gameplay.

If u don´t play zerk/rampager/assasin…which content get´s more challenging then?

Even if Berserker is often easy to play, it´s still the hardest to play. Sad but true.

And there is no way to make healing/support/cc viable at the moment. They have to change alot of mechanics. Before they don´t this, max possibel (to play) dpsbuild will always be superior and most wanted.

Conditionbuilds…the only 1 which should to the same dps as berserkers is rampager. All others have got at least 1 defensive stat and dire for example deals much more dps then PVT.

Zerker is by no means hard to play in a berserk group. Even when a fight lasts long enough for you to have the potential to take fatal damage the attacks aren’t fast(easy to dodge) and the damage you receive if you do get hit is often fatal even if you’re PVT. Warriors by far make it extremely easy to berserk considering they have a big health and armor advantage on top of being great at pretty much everything else.

Stats in general need revamped for balance and the whole condition system needs redone. Conditions need to be actual attrition instead of burst. However if conditions will be based on attrition then the tools needed must be available, which isn’t the case for many builds/classes.

Mimizu.7340:

this is what you get for putting all your eggs in one basket.

nobody told you to, you just followed a trend like a lemming.

nerf-lol.

You mean to tell me that I should have had:
Knight’s helmet
Valkyrie Shoulder
Hunter Coat
Assassin’s Leggings
Carrion Gloves
Apothecary Boots ???

Distaste.4801:

Zerker is by no means hard to play in a berserk group. Even when a fight lasts long enough for you to have the potential to take fatal damage the attacks aren’t fast(easy to dodge) and the damage you receive if you do get hit is often fatal even if you’re PVT. Warriors by far make it extremely easy to berserk considering they have a big health and armor advantage on top of being great at pretty much everything else.

Stats in general need revamped for balance and the whole condition system needs redone. Conditions need to be actual attrition instead of burst. However if conditions will be based on attrition then the tools needed must be available, which isn’t the case for many builds/classes.

That´s false and stupid. I bought full clerics for my guard today and facetanked the HotW 1 Endboss. I used not even 1 dogderoll, no aegis nothing. I only walked out of his whirl not more.

And i was the only cleriv/defensive player.

Not even one fight gets easier with zerkers gear. Yes some are so easy that i could cry…but if u stack enough defensive gear/traits u can doing every dungeon (proably except Lupicus/40+ fotm and alphard) by just pushing 1.
That´s far more easier. Slow but easy.

Most bosses to their fatal attacks. Kohler/AC Spider ok (possibel, u can tank her spray with clerics gear). But others? Even Alpha in CoE i play 10,8k thief, 11,8k ele and guard. With all 3 im a 1hit if i don´t dogde.

With all 3 i´ve got big problems i don´t manage to avoid his “earth attack” (P1 and 3).
1hit at wolf, 1hit at abo.
Im 1hit in most fractals. With enough defensive gear i can make much much more mistakes.

To say it´s all easier with berserkers gear is just a lies that came from people who can´t play it. Or don´t like. From people who can´t say to themselves “Ok, i don´t want it so fast, i play a bit safer but not as fast, that´s ok for me”.

All examples where “zerk is too strong” are boring/bad bosses. Which can be tricked out with corners or something else.

And what does it have todo with skipping? Alot of PVT Pugs are skipping the same things. When did u the CoE Abomination last time? And if, melee or ranged?

Some trash is harder to skip then to kill, espiacially if u play berserkers gear.

Conditiondmg…Dire dps is above PVT is PvE. All others have defensive stats. The only set which is a bit out of balance is rampager. No defensive, but less offense compared to zerkers (with some builds the diffrent is not that huge).

Norjena.5172:

I bought full clerics for my guard today and facetanked the HotW 1 Endboss. I used not even 1 dogderoll, no aegis nothing. I only walked out of his whirl not more.

And i was the only cleriv/defensive player.

Not even one fight gets easier with zerkers gear. Yes some are so easy that i could cry…but if u stack enough defensive gear/traits u can doing every dungeon (proably except Lupicus/40+ fotm and alphard) by just pushing 1.
That´s far more easier. Slow but easy.

THAT is exactly why Berserker/Assassin is better. Using defensive stats trivialises and makes it so you don’t actually have to dodge or even be mobile at all. How is that fun?

I’ve noticed the people throwing casual around as an insult have ascended gear and saying they’re the hardcore elite. You can’t be that good if you can’t afford a second set of ascended as a back-up.

Welcome to MMOs. This is your first if you never saw this coming. Adapt or die.

Flissy.4093:

Norjena.5172:

I bought full clerics for my guard today and facetanked the HotW 1 Endboss. I used not even 1 dogderoll, no aegis nothing. I only walked out of his whirl not more.

And i was the only cleriv/defensive player.

Not even one fight gets easier with zerkers gear. Yes some are so easy that i could cry…but if u stack enough defensive gear/traits u can doing every dungeon (proably except Lupicus/40+ fotm and alphard) by just pushing 1.
That´s far more easier. Slow but easy.

THAT is exactly why Berserker/Assassin is better. Using defensive stats trivialises and makes it so you don’t actually have to dodge or even be mobile at all. How is that fun?

And as stated, it takes longer going full defensive.
Time is money therefore zerker is more bang for buck in comparison.

Darkobra.6439:

You can’t be that good if you can’t afford a second set of ascended as a back-up..

You’d have a point if it was a good time after ascended armor. But shortly after the time-gate allows crafting without TP? Yeah, thats just a giant middle finger.

The thing is, they got rid of magic find as a stat on armor. They had to do something with the armor.

They aren’t getting rid of any of the stats that zerker armor uses. I really don’t see them offering a change.

Nor do I think they should. Anyone who buys or crafts armor in an MMO should realize that the meta could change at any time and make a different build better.

They don´t fix mapglitches in dungeons (oder even WvsW).
They don´t ban dungeon sellers.
They don´t remove champ boxes.
They don´t ban traders who buy what they want to sell it for the double price.

Why should they nerf zerkers gear? It´s probably the last thing to have fun/challenge in PvE. And it´s not for much gold only.

It is a “play what u want” playstyle, not a must have playstyle.

Nerfing it solves not even one problem we have at the moment. No other build will get better buy nerfing Berserker, it´s impossibel due to PvE/Boss/Dungeon design.

Even if it´s only 5% better then the second best option, it will still be the best.

Zerker needs to be nerfed, badly. I’m not necessarily opposed to a free respec on zerker gear like what they did with MF, but I don’t really think anyone is entitled to it either.

The trend for Berserker armour is not the issue, it’s a symptom.

“Fixing” the zerker problem would mean overhauling mob behaviour radically. This will never be done.
Right now Berserker’s gear is the absolute fastest way to clean content that consist of GIGANTIC damage sponges for 90%, can you imagine how much longer it will soon take to do that content? Better get ready to put aside 1 hour for CoF p1. Not grindy indeed.

whats this talk about a nerf relating to?

My thief stats include berserker armor, magi/zerk weapons, celestial/valk/knight/cleric trinkets. If zerk is nerfed, I think I can adapt. Not to say I’m for it in any way, but don’t think they would outright nerf zerk, especially on an individual level. They’ll either make it on par with conditions in PvP, or add a “critical cap” to boss monsters in PvE that would throttle the amount of damage done by a group, making all armor types a viable option for any type of PvE.

Wow, you people clamoring about getting free replacement armour are daft. They’re talking about changing how mob encounters and dungeons are set up, and possibly capping crit chance. They’re not outright destroying the gear.

/facepalm.

Sounds totally unreasonable. MF change removed MF from gear and moved it to the account, a change that is for the most part positive. They allowed you to change the stat on the armor because MF on the gear was totally removed. So unless they are removing berserkers gear or one of its components (power, prec, crit damage) from the gear completely then I don’t see you getting to change anything. If they allow change to gear stats everytime there is a new update that change the meta, then would have to allow it every time there is a skill/trait update as it will effect people’s build (for WvW).

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

lol. Just lol. Can you swap your stats on your warrior rabbit armor when you realise those stats are dumb?. Also, noone talks about “destroying zerkers”. They want to adjust zerker gear, so you aren’t forced to run zerker everywhere and all the time.

Adjusting berserker gear isn’t the solution to that problem. Berserker gear is merely a symptom of the problem much like a cough is a symptom of a cold.

Until they change game mechanics there is always going to be a best set of gear to use and that will be whatever provides the most dps.

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

Anet has demonstrated repeatedly that to fix problems they will take the path of the least resistance(aka the most lazy/worst path). In this case that means nerfing berserker gear.

They haven’t demonstrated once that they understand what the real problem is.

fellyn.5083:

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

Anet has demonstrated repeatedly that to fix problems they will take the path of the least resistance(aka the most lazy/worst path). In this case that means nerfing berserker gear.

They haven’t demonstrated once that they understand what the real problem is.

So please tell me what the real problem is other than players being lazy and being entitled to rewards for little to no effort. For the record I do have a full set of zerker.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

fellyn.5083:

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

Anet has demonstrated repeatedly that to fix problems they will take the path of the least resistance(aka the most lazy/worst path). In this case that means nerfing berserker gear.

They haven’t demonstrated once that they understand what the real problem is.

So please tell me what the real problem is other than players being lazy and being entitled to rewards for little to no effort. For the record I do have a full set of zerker.

Mobs. If only they are more than just a damage sponge players would use other builds. Wvw and spvp have a lot of viable builds.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

fellyn.5083:

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

Anet has demonstrated repeatedly that to fix problems they will take the path of the least resistance(aka the most lazy/worst path). In this case that means nerfing berserker gear.

They haven’t demonstrated once that they understand what the real problem is.

So please tell me what the real problem is other than players being lazy and being entitled to rewards for little to no effort. For the record I do have a full set of zerker.

The real problem is that the brain dead stupid AI lets people get away with stacking or wearing paper thin armor.

Game mechanics need to change to encourage people to use sets other than berserker. Nerfing berserker gear doesn’t change the reason why people use berserker to begin with. They’ll just move onto the next best set and this cycle will repeat itself again down the road.

And lazy? Really? I’d think it’s the exact opposite. It’s efficient. If a boss is going to 1 shot you no matter what kind of defenses you stack then why bother? Why not go for the gear that’s going to let you kill them as quickly as you can?

Problem with dungeon is not zerg gear but you can run past mob and they stop follow you after 5sec,if you arrgo them they should follow you forever(make tanks and support needed)…

Killface.1896:

Problem with dungeon is not zerg gear but you can run past mob and they stop follow you after 5sec,if you arrgo them they should follow you forever(make tanks and support needed)…

That would entice the use of zerker gear even more as you will need to clear more mobs.

Fenrir.3609:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

lol. Just lol. Can you swap your stats on your warrior rabbit armor when you realise those stats are dumb?. Also, noone talks about “destroying zerkers”. They want to adjust zerker gear, so you aren’t forced to run zerker everywhere and all the time.

Wait, you can’t do any of the pve content as a non zerk and you have to spvp and WvW in zerk as well?

Oh no wait, you are talking rubbish.

And given the time gating/grind associated with ascended gear, yes you should be allowed to change it for free when ANet nerf zerk.

As as side note, you also realise that nerfing zerk stats will do fk all to alter the pve dps meta right?

So if you don’t run zerker gear in WvW, you don’t have to change it. And you can do the PvE content without zerker gear. But since even necros running zerker gear it’s a “little bit” over the top.

They where removing MF from gear that why they let you switch why would they let you switch if they are just changing how it plays out in pve? Ppl realty do panic with no real reason these days do they? As things stand zerker is the only thing you need in pve there is no build diversity its very boring and most ppl have been saying this with in 3 months of the game coming out i would not be surprised if we look at some of the ppl posing the doom on this changes where the very ones asking for it some time ago (i kind of want to look for my self one of these days for the ppl who realty go out of there way it will be fun i must say).

I mean, if they remove % Crit Damage Increase… sure, they should allow you to change it (and likely would).

But if it’s a matter of tweaking the internal coefficients and such… no, I don’t see why they should or would.

Zerker as the universal optimum has already been destroyed and Tyria did not end.

All you have to do is make important bosses immune to crits and you’ve rendered 2 out of 3 of Zerker’s stats meaningless. It makes Zerker the best gear for killing trash-mobs and dead last for killing bosses.

Tequatl being immune to crits =/= accident or coincidence

All you have to do is stream undodgeable damage throughout an encounter and you make defensive stats carry value no amount of dodging can replace.

Perma-Toxin in the upper level of the Nightmare Tower =/= accident or coincidence

…If you’re going to shriek about the coming of an Apocalypse, try to at least notice it’s already happening…

just curious on what change you guys are talking about. this is the first I heard of this.

People seems to be under the impression that making something as useful as everything else = destroying it.

Would making Zerker gear the same level as usefulness as Rabid make it worse?
Yes.
Would it make it useless?
No.

Something being overpowered and then changed to not so overpowered doesn’t destroy it nor make it useless.

I have read at least 3 people post in this thread who have no idea what’s going on, so allow me to enlighten you:-

The relevant part to this thread is changes to crit dam % which berserker and other armour sets like celestial may be affected by.

Josh Davis.6015:

Citizens,

This Friday at 2PM PST (22:00 GMT) we’ll be hosting another episode of Ready Up. I’ll be joined by Game Designers Jon Peters, Jon Sharp, Karl McLain, and Roy Cronacher.

In this episode we’ll be talking about a few of the things the Skills and Balance team is working on for the next balance update, including:

• Runes and sigil rework
• Critical damage changes
• New stat combinations for PvP (amulets)
• High-level overview of planned balance changes

You can catch the livestream at www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

As a heads-up, we won’t be running a Q&A segment during this show like previous episodes of Ready Up. However, feel free to leave questions/comments below and I’ll use them to guide our discussions on Friday.

We’ll see you then!

Thread to leave feedback.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST/page/4#post3502992

so much faith in anet …
they should start to address this also…

Why people expect them to nerf zerk to the ground?
I know the answer >__>

I very much doubt zerkers are going to be hit as hard as they are fearing at the moment. And I also doubt that this will in any way affect the meta. As others have said, making other builds more useful does not make zerker less useful.

The most likely thing they’ll do is a cap on crit damage, but even a cap at 100% is still totally fine (and yes, I do run zerker on my Necro because that is how stupidly OP it is at the minute). They’re not taking away any defensive abilities EVERY class has – some variation of reflect, invulnerability, blind, cripple, chill and, of course, dodge. Essentially, things will stay more or less the same, but non-zerker builds will find themselves on a more equal footing. For any zerker “elite” player, they’ll still be just as useful as they ever were. Until mob AI changes completely, DPS will still be the fastest way to kill anything in this game.

Nike.2631:

They’re not going to “Destroy Zerker”…

They’re going to destroy the environment in which it is the best answer to every challenge – hopefully by adding new challenges where its not the best solution.

It’ll still be the best choice some of the time.

That’s pretty much wrong. If they were going to do that they would have said " major gameplay changes " or " some AI changes " not " critical damage changes".

Einlanzer.1627:

Zerker needs to be nerfed, badly. I’m not necessarily opposed to a free respec on zerker gear like what they did with MF, but I don’t really think anyone is entitled to it either.

It’s odd how the people who say “zerker needs teh nerfbat!!”, never come up with a valid reason as to why that should be the case.

Fenrir.3609:

Einlanzer.1627:

Zerker needs to be nerfed, badly. I’m not necessarily opposed to a free respec on zerker gear like what they did with MF, but I don’t really think anyone is entitled to it either.

It’s odd how the people who say “zerker needs teh nerfbat!!”, never come up with a valid reason as to why that should be the case.

They probably think it’s obvious.

Even zerkers themselves will admit that the reason they run it is because it’s simply so powerful compared with any other build. ANet want to balance things better so other builds become more useful. This is likely going to come from a nerf to zerker (to only change enemy AI wouldn’t necessarily make other skills more useful to the same extent as altering both slightly). So, a nerf to zerker will probably happen, but I doubt to the point where zerkers find themselves completely useless. Yes, maybe they’ll find that they can’t kill everything in 2 seconds flat, but then maybe we’ll see a correlation between that and some of the complaints that things are far too easy in this game.

People run full DPS because of faster clear time. That’s all. Also exaggerating usually hurts your credibility (people just assume you have no idea what you are talking about).

At the moment I don’t really gearcheck people because I know my damage can carry and the run goes pretty fast. But if my damage gets nerfed I have to gearcheck to ensure we get decent DPS.

Fenrir.3609:

Einlanzer.1627:

Zerker needs to be nerfed, badly. I’m not necessarily opposed to a free respec on zerker gear like what they did with MF, but I don’t really think anyone is entitled to it either.

It’s odd how the people who say “zerker needs teh nerfbat!!”, never come up with a valid reason as to why that should be the case.

because elitism and classism make it go wrong. not every class is good at being zerker.
“play zerker warrior or quit” this sentence sums the pve aspect of the game.