Guild Wars 2

I’m looking at that +70% critical chance increase from fury trait and wondering why I’d need precision as a revenant with it. Being Power/Ferocity/Condi seems like it might be the best dps option for Revenant if this trait stays the same.

Edit: it’s been pointed out that the total critical chance from fury is going to be 30% not 70. Looks like zerker will probably remain king.

Uhm..because that “+70% critical chance increase from fury trait” is really only +30%.

The trait is 50% increase of the crit chance from fury, which totals to 30%, not 70%.

Ah, I must have misread it. Thanks for the clarification.

We haven’t seen what the Power line or other Legends have in store for us yet, but I’m already predicting 4/4/0/0/6 Berserker Revenant will be very good and highly survivable still. The amount of passives (in the two DPS lines we can see ATM) they already have shown is looking pretty ridiculous from a PvE standpoint.

It alters the ‘effectiveness of Fury’. A 50% increase in effectiveness for a total of +30% crit chance from the Fury boon.

I’ expecting Condition – Toughness to be a good option for them as they are suppose to be a tanky like class.

BarnabeJonez.6023:

I’m looking at that +70% critical chance increase from fury trait and wondering why I’d need precision as a revenant with it. Being Power/Ferocity/Condi seems like it might be the best dps option for Revenant if this trait stays the same.

Edit: it’s been pointed out that the total critical chance from fury is going to be 30% not 70. Looks like zerker will probably remain king.

That’s assuming they don’t nerf it a week after release.
Devs typically release a class overpowered and nerf it down in the weeks and months after release.

With that trait we can expect to reach 100% crit chance very easily in PvE. Zerker gear + that trait + spotter + banner of Disc will equal to 100% crit chance.

Although I have all my 8 80ies in either exotic or ascended zerker armor (i mostly play PvE), I hope there will be a change of meta. Something that will vastly change the playstyle and let people choose more freely instead of the all same zerker meta.

There are people who think the only solution is trinity which is wrong. There are a lot of mechanics to overcome ‘stack in corner and burn enemies’-tactic. Either a scatter mechanic similar to GW1-anti-farm-mechanic or extremely strong attacks on melee range etc.

People forget that the dungeons are old – newer content shows, that there are a lot of better mechanics like some fractals or single encounters like Liadri.

Tman.6349:

It alters the ‘effectiveness of Fury’. A 50% increase in effectiveness for a total of +30% crit chance from the Fury boon.

they should change the description to say
fury grants 30% chance to crit instead of 20%

the wording is a problem, still early enough to catch that though

I expect that we will see a direct damage pve / bursty pvp legend and that the sword mainhand will be the direct damage weapon. Since the Precision line, as shown so far, doesn’t have a great deal of good traits for a direct damage DPS build it’s entirely possible we will see something like 62006 with a berserker/assassin mix.

But this is all wild speculation at best.

For a class that needs to take damage in order to fuel its more offensive attacks, I don’t think zerker would offer the best longevity for effectiveness.

Maybe this is Anet’s attempt at turning the gradual tendency for players that know how to use active defense really well to migrate to zerker on its head. In order to maximize effectiveness, you need to pull or otherwise obtain conditions to do heavy damage.

We may be seeing a use for settler’s, soldiers, and even nomad’s gear now.

Riku.4821:

I’ expecting Condition – Toughness to be a good option for them as they are suppose to be a tanky like class.

I assume the OP is talking about 5-person instances (the only place where zerk is meta right now anyway), and toughness is never going to be optimal there as long as groups can just bring as much dodge/aegis/blind/protection/weakness/interrupt/deep freeze/rocky/whatever as they need to stay alive long enough to kill bosses.

It’s already possible to build tanks, and they can survive pretty much any boss in any dungeon. It’s just not necessary because a group of good players in full zerk can already survive well enough to complete everything. Until they change that—until they add content where active defenses aren’t sufficient—toughness will not be meta.

Edit: This is a good point:

For a class that needs to take damage in order to fuel its more offensive attacks, I don’t think zerker would offer the best longevity for effectiveness.

But even there it comes down to whether you actually die too fast with full zerk, and even if you do, it’ll then be a question of whether the damage you get from the extra conditions makes up for the big loss from whatever stats you’re using instead. We’ll see how the numbers turn out, I guess!

If mace main hand stays the same there’s no way it won’t be meta.
A permanent fire field, and a single skill that does 3 blast finishers with an 8s CD in the same weapon? Insane.

Edit: Yea, I was talking about the dungeon meta, and I do hope we see the rise of some new gear sets. I’d love to see Condi be useful in places. My poor Necro has nothing to do with himself but bake pie.

BarnabeJonez.6023:

If mace main hand stays the same there’s no way it won’t be meta.
A permanent fire field, and a single skill that does 3 blast finishers with an 8s CD in the same weapon? Insane.

Edit: Yea, I was talking about the dungeon meta, and I do hope we see the rise of some new gear sets. I’d love to see Condi be useful in places. My poor Necro has nothing to do with himself but bake pie.

Condi will never be useful in Dungeon metas beecause of stacking issues. Want bleed damage? Well too bad if you have an Engi or Mesmer in your group that are just going to accidently stack bleed up pretty good.

And necro Dagger power damage builds aren’t necessarily bad, it’s their lack of utility more than damage that has them riding the pine.

And isn’t the mace on revenant a condi weapon?

That class is going to be the new necromancer of PVE unless they unveil something insanely good hidden in the Power trait line. The things we have seen from the Precision and Ferocity lines is pretty meh.

A permanent fire field, and a single skill that does 3 blast finishers with an 8s CD in the same weapon? Insane.

Only two of the blasts will hit and no one is going to use that weapon in combat.
Ele already have perma fire field and the highest AoE dps of the game. I don’t see the excitement.

Jerus.4350:

Condi will never be useful in Dungeon metas beecause of stacking issues.

Well they could fix it and it would be useful. Never say never
I think fixing condition in PvE, Build template and GvG (pvp, not player+npc vs player +npc, like it will be) are the things that I hope the most for HoT, but I probably be disappointed about those.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jerus.4350:

Condi will never be useful in Dungeon metas beecause of stacking issues.

Well they could fix it and it would be useful. Never say never
I think fixing condition in PvE, Build template and GvG (pvp, not player+npc vs player +npc, like it will be) are the things that I hope the most for HoT, but I probably be disappointed about those.

That looks more like it now

I’m with ya though, just not even hoping anymore, if they prove my pessimism wrong it’d be nice.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jerus.4350:

Condi will never be useful in Dungeon metas beecause of stacking issues.

Well they could fix it and it would be useful. Never say never
I think fixing condition in PvE, Build template and GvG (pvp, not player+npc vs player +npc, like it will be) are the things that I hope the most for HoT, but I probably be disappointed about those.

I wonder why Anet doesn’t change conditions so they have a chance to crit based off precision, considering plenty of cond builds are built with Precision to proc a condition? Not crit in application but within the duration based off traits maybe.

We’ve only seen half the class and I expect it will have a melee power weapon setup too. Max direct damage will likely still be the go to unless Anet radically changes current and future content to punish players who rely on proper positioning, dodging, and active defenses over passive stats and face tanking.

Yea, the more I look at what they’ve shown so far, the more Revenant looks like a sPvP/tPvP class. Condi focused, good might and fury options, might generation. Sounds like another Celestial meta build inc.

I do hope there’s going to be good power and support options coming too. I’d hate to see Revenant blow kittens in PvE.

I have faith that they’ll do something for them in PVE, jsut what’s been shown hasn’t really been good, but there’s still stuff left to be seen

Hmm if that’s the case, Sinister may also be a good fit to Revs. I’ve been running sinister on my necro and it’s got a good kick to it.

DeathPanel.8362:

That’s assuming they don’t nerf it a week after release.
Devs typically release a class overpowered and nerf it down in the weeks and months after release.

That has more to do with the quality of the play/skill of the ones doing the testing, than the nature of design. I the first few rounds of adjustment post launch were a bit premature as the player base was skill learning to play at that point.

I am expecting Cavalier revenants/valk

Releasing a class to be OP is intended to get people to buy the expansion. Once the sales die down then they nerf the class to “balance” it.

Lifestealer.4910:

Releasing a class to be OP is intended to get people to buy the expansion. Once the sales die down then they nerf the class to “balance” it.

Yeah right, because guardian and warrior have been nerfed and necromancers and mesmers have been brought up to line in 2 years….lolno.

It’s also cute how necromancer’s minor traits on its power line is some garbage like small heal on mob death and 7% of power turned into healing power (a worthless stat) and getting 1 puny might stack when hot at low health.

Or mesmer’s terrible minors as well from the domination line or ranger’s BM minors and that awful opening strike.

But hey it makes sense to follow the tradition of only polishing design on the heavy professions.

Zerker probably will be meta for Revenant considering the Hammer is a Range weapon for them..

It’s possible Zerker might not be the meta for HoT in general though considering the new mobs could very well be designed to counter this Meta

It would amuse me greatly if this was the case
seeing hundreds of Zerker Warriors getting wasted because they are too squishy hehe

Jerus.4350:

I have faith that they’ll do something for them in PVE, jsut what’s been shown hasn’t really been good, but there’s still stuff left to be seen

They never really got around fixing necromancer for PVE (it might have decent personal DPS, but it’ll never become desirable), they don’t really balance this game around PVE, they screwed with warrior enough that it is now barely tolerable to have for the sake of the banners and nothing else. I wouldn’t be so optimistic about the class. They’re still pushing for espatz. Revenant looks highly tuned toward what they want for espatz.

Heck, for that matter, I’m not very optimistic about the class specializations. They might also be highly tuned toward things that might not fit the current dungeons/PVE.

Teratus.2859:

It would amuse me greatly if this was the case
seeing hundreds of Zerker Warriors getting wasted because they are too squishy hehe

I look forward to that.

I don’t know you, but I’m going to make Soldier, Celestial and Rampager armors for mine. When you can switch between roles like that, it’s better to have more versatile stats that can do different things. If I make a berserker one, it’ll probably be a fourth one. But I’m not planning a fourth one just yet.

Anyone who thinks the PvE meta build for Revenant won’t be berserker is living in wishful-thinking land. What has anyone seen that leads them to believe that Valk will be better? Because of an extra 10% crit chance trait? Other professions have similar or better traits and they still use Berserker and/or Assassins.

I don’t think that Revenant is the reason why zerker meta can change, what can change it is the new map, bosses and events.
Depending on how the new content works, not only revenant but all other classes meta can change towards something else.

If you look at the new mobs since the Triple Trouble you can see that conditions got a bit of attention.

I still think that zerker will still be king, but I’ll wait till a couple weeks after the HoT launch and finish my heavy asc armor with the “meta stats”.

Azhure.1857:

Teratus.2859:

It would amuse me greatly if this was the case
seeing hundreds of Zerker Warriors getting wasted because they are too squishy hehe

I look forward to that.

After all it seems there are no new dungeons in HoT, and so there will also be
no zerker meta for the new content since the meta only exists for speedrun
dungeons … but not for something like Vinewrath speedruns .. you simply
can’t speedkill those mobs in 10 seconds no matter how pro you are.

And so mostly its more important not to die than make 20% more damage
but only for 50% or less of the fight.

Azhure.1857:

I look forward to that.

Do you like failing open world events because other people are dead?

Beldin.5498:

After all it seems there are no new dungeons in HoT, and so there will also be
no zerker meta for the new content since the meta only exists for speedrun
dungeons … but not for something like Vinewrath speedruns .. you simply
can’t speedkill those mobs in 10 seconds no matter how pro you are.

And so mostly its more important not to die than make 20% more damage
but only for 50% or less of the fight.

Pretty sure new dungeons will be coming.. at the very least the battle with Mordremoth will probably take place in a Dungeon instance..

Thaddeus.4891:

With that trait we can expect to reach 100% crit chance very easily in PvE. Zerker gear + that trait + spotter + banner of Disc will equal to 100% crit chance.

There seems to a hidden cap on crit chance. I’ve had non-critical hits show up even with the character panel showing 103% critical chance. Hmm … although that was before the new combat log. Let me go check again.

“Meta” is more about what utilities and traits you bring, not what gear you choose. For general purpose PvE and especially for instanced PvE, everything including the Revenant will always use the highest DPS gear, which at this point is Berserker. Any support or control style skills the Revenant ends up using in the meta will be independent of that.

Beldin.5498:

After all it seems there are no new dungeons in HoT, and so there will also be
no zerker meta for the new content since the meta only exists for speedrun
dungeons … but not for something like Vinewrath speedruns .. you simply
can’t speedkill those mobs in 10 seconds no matter how pro you are.

And so mostly its more important not to die than make 20% more damage
but only for 50% or less of the fight.

Pretty sure Berserker is meta for vinewrath speed runs too, if such a thing was to exist. This says more about your own (lack of) confidence in understanding the boss mechanics than it does with your assessment of other players.

Khisanth.2948:

Thaddeus.4891:

With that trait we can expect to reach 100% crit chance very easily in PvE. Zerker gear + that trait + spotter + banner of Disc will equal to 100% crit chance.

There seems to a hidden cap on crit chance. I’ve had non-critical hits show up even with the character panel showing 103% critical chance. Hmm … although that was before the new combat log. Let me go check again.

Don’t forget crit chance has other factors, such as level differential.

Also weakness?

Beldin.5498:

Azhure.1857:

Teratus.2859:

It would amuse me greatly if this was the case
seeing hundreds of Zerker Warriors getting wasted because they are too squishy hehe

I look forward to that.

After all it seems there are no new dungeons in HoT, and so there will also be
no zerker meta for the new content since the meta only exists for speedrun
dungeons … but not for something like Vinewrath speedruns .. you simply
can’t speedkill those mobs in 10 seconds no matter how pro you are.

And so mostly its more important not to die than make 20% more damage
but only for 50% or less of the fight.

you still can of course some of the build archetypes change depending on which boss it is.

The thrasher’s poison AoE for example at lower health, protection + regeneration is enough sustain to keep melee on him while he’s doing his magic and that’s if you actually need it, dodging serves the same function (of course dodging causes that much of a dps loss). The shade mechanic is prime time for a might pre-stack + timewarp damage opportunity which when utilized properly will cut him down like paper.

rotten.9753:

Azhure.1857:

I look forward to that.

Do you like failing open world events because other people are dead?

What do I like? Hmm.
I like challenging content.
I like having fun.
I like watching a complacent zerg get shell shocked.

Loot means nothing to me. I log in game to have a good time and to play with my friends. So yes, I’m going to absolutely enjoy watching a large portion of zerkers get their kitten s handed to them in HoT until they either become skilled enough to support it or they adapt accordingly. Eagerly awaiting it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

“Meta” is more about what utilities and traits you bring, not what gear you choose. For general purpose PvE and especially for instanced PvE, everything including the Revenant will always use the highest DPS gear, which at this point is Berserker. Any support or control style skills the Revenant ends up using in the meta will be independent of that.

Yes and no. Gear plays a big roll in how much damage youll do. Youre not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage cause you wont.

With this said depending on how the revenant plays and how condi stacks work the highest dps might be rabid for all we know.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Yes and no. Gear plays a big roll in how much damage youll do. Youre not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage cause you wont.

With this said depending on how the revenant plays and how condi stacks work the highest dps might be rabid for all we know.

Gear definitely contributes substantially to how much damage you do, but “role” in the meta and “gear” are independent. Guardians with their defensive support still run full Berserker gear because it’s the highest DPS, yet their role is very defensive. Gear is more of a difficulty slider and has little impact on the meta itself.

Lastly, condition builds will never manifest as a part of optimal team configurations in instanced PvE so long as the condition cap exists.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Yes and no. Gear plays a big roll in how much damage youll do. Youre not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage cause you wont.

With this said depending on how the revenant plays and how condi stacks work the highest dps might be rabid for all we know.

Gear definitely contributes substantially to how much damage you do, but “role” in the meta and “gear” are independent. Guardians with their defensive support still run full Berserker gear because it’s the highest DPS, yet their role is very defensive. Gear is more of a difficulty slider and has little impact on the meta itself.

Lastly, condition builds will never manifest as a part of optimal team configurations in instanced PvE so long as the condition cap exists.

The difference that gear makes is not that big than what some people always try
to make others believe. I recently did some calculation comparing full berserk
against characters with a zerker weapon but knights, celectial or soldiers armor
and jewlery.

The numbers were (percent damage of full zerker) :
celestial 73,57%
knights 77,67%
soldiers 72,90%
(i used numbers based on gw2skills.net for calculation)

Now if we take a mixed build like knights armor and zerker jewlery and weapon
the difference is maybe 11-12% less.

2 wrong traits can make you already loose 15% easily.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Khisanth.2948:

Thaddeus.4891:

With that trait we can expect to reach 100% crit chance very easily in PvE. Zerker gear + that trait + spotter + banner of Disc will equal to 100% crit chance.

There seems to a hidden cap on crit chance. I’ve had non-critical hits show up even with the character panel showing 103% critical chance. Hmm … although that was before the new combat log. Let me go check again.

Don’t forget crit chance has other factors, such as level differential.

Also weakness?

It was the flies/mosquito/spiders just north of LA. They only poison and they should be about the same level.

cleric lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3JM-X3M5Ks

meta lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXTd9YfMJlw

but guys

gear “plays a big roll in how much damage youll do”

and “you’re not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage”

lol

maha.7902:

cleric lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3JM-X3M5Ks

meta lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXTd9YfMJlw

but guys

gear “plays a big roll in how much damage youll do”

and “you’re not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage”

lol

Interesting but a more honest comparison would have been nice.

Are people really surprised that magi or cleric builds do less damage than full berserker?…

Yes it does less damage but you can run the exact same trait setup as a zerker and still get things done, just slower and risk free.