Guild Wars 2

Seems to me that games these days care too much about the casual player.
Gw2 is ultra casual, no real progression or enticing reward system very easy skill system where you gain every wep skill by lvl 10.
I don’t know whether i want gw2 to do well at all because i don’t want other company’s to keep rolling out these care bear games
I wish companys would just consider the hardcore players you know the type of players that go to game conventions , make youtube videos, spend hours playing these games and try to be the best they can be in any game they play.
There is more of us than you might think ^

so my question to the community is this. Are you sick of games being to casual ? or maybe you prefer games designed for more casual play?
/discuss

Edit: my definition of hardcore vs casual
I guess you could define hardcore as gamers that want to compete with eachother and casual as gamers that play just to amuze themselves.

Hardcore as in endgame pve? Sure there are people that enjoy grinding their gear from dungeons to get into higher level places like raids and such, but there are also a lot of casuals that would like to do the same, without having to spend hours on end to accomplish such things after they hit max level. Guild wars 1 really didnt have “endgame” like wow does with multiple raids. You had harder modes of instances and areas.

Imho, just because they did not think of their hardcore community coming to try the game, does not mean they will not think and / or actually implement some complex raids or something.. Dunno, but if you want a gear grind for hardcore gaming then just go play wow when mists comes out.

What do you mean with hardcore. Like EQ1 hardcore?
Where you respawn naked and have to fight your way back to your corpse to get gear back?
Where dying in some places without any respawn or way to get back in?
Where disarm makes you drop your weapon on the ground for any player to pick up? Where mob spawns required for progression are so rare you need to camp the same spot for hours/days?

Won’t deny it was a lot of fun back in the day. But tbh if they released that 2012 I think I would have to pass.

i havent played wow in 2 years but i am truly considering it , I just don’t like the community in wow, gw2 has one of the best community’s I’ve come across in an mmo for a very long time.
Unfortunately there isn’t any good mmos due to release for a very long time..elder scrolls online, final fantasy xiv 2.0 etc.
at the moment its like gw2 is a side game but there is no main game

I like a mix of both. Problem with hardcore games is it becomes a job that you do not get paid for. I like difficulty not easy. But what I don’t like is something so hard that you need 12934509128374509 people to complete it. Or that one boss fight takes 45 minutes to kill. Really 1 mob 30-45 minutes to kill. I am not talking about the jurney to get to the boss. I am talking about the boss himself.

Yes an exageration I know but you get the point. Also so of us players do not have all the time in the world to play. So a nice ballance of hardcore and casual things would be good mix. Would also help open up the game to more people.

The other issue is define a casual and hardcore player. I have over 150 hours playing the game… some would call me a hardcore gammer. I am only level 58 and for that reason some would call me casual because I didn’t reach level 80 in a week, bypassing alot of content. I call myself a completionist. I like to explore and get the most out of the game that I can. I want to find and do everything there is to do. I like to RP in a RPing game. Some call that hardcore, others don’t… So which defination do I fit in? I think alot of players are a mix of both.

When you have completed all 33 explorable paths, you can come back here and say you’re hardcore.

Fiennes.9568:

When you have completed all 33 explorable paths, you can come back here and say you’re hardcore.

Did you read my post? I didn’t say I was hardcore, I said I was a completionist. I was mearly pointing out that different people have different definations of what is hardcore and what is casual.

Rush.8239:

Seems to me that games these days care too much about the casual player.
Gw2 is ultra casual, no real progression or enticing reward system very easy skill system where you gain every wep skill by lvl 10.
I don’t know whether i want gw2 to do well at all because i don’t want other company’s to keep rolling out these care bear games
I wish companys would just consider the hardcore players you know the type of players that go to game conventions , make youtube videos, spend hours playing these games and try to be the best they can be in any game they play.
There is more of us than you might think ^

so my question to the community is this. Are you sick of games being to casual ? or maybe you prefer games designed for more casual play?
/discuss

I love GW2 but I have to agree with you, it feels way too casual and more like a console xbox generation game. I don’t miss the old mmo system mechanics but I do miss old school style gaming. ( Im talking 25+ years )

Any monkey could play this game and win spamming 1-5 skills. It is way too easy.

Dungeons use a token grinding system, which is an old style mmo system which should not have even made it into the game…..plus there not diffilcult.

I mean what happened to working things out for yourself? I remember dungeons where you had to wait and see and work out the enemies weaknesses for yourself…..now we have tooltips above there heads telling us exactly how to kill each enemy….

Enemy does this this this and this…..there basically telling us how to beat any enemy on top of the enemies head…..

GW2 for me anyway = Easymode gaming. Then play a thief = Super easy mode gaming

Spryt.8012:

What do you mean with hardcore. Like EQ1 hardcore? Where you respawn naked and have to fight your way back to your corpse to get gear back? Where dying in some places without any respawn or way to get back in? Where disarm makes you drop your weapon on the ground for any player to pick up? Where mob spawns required for progression are so rare you need to camp the same spot for hours/days?

Won’t deny it was a lot of fun back in the day. But tbh if they released that 2012 I think I would have to pass.

think of it this way would you think of top guilds/players in the game as casual?
no they are hardcore guilds with hardcore players that want to be the best in the games they play. In gw2 there is no need for this type of players/guilds because its so casual in every aspect

Kailthir.6384:

Fiennes.9568:

When you have completed all 33 explorable paths, you can come back here and say you’re hardcore.

Did you read my post? I didn’t say I was hardcore, I said I was a completionist. I was mearly pointing out that different people have different definations of what is hardcore and what is casual.

I did read your post:

I wish companys would just consider the hardcore players you know the type of players that go to game conventions , make youtube videos, spend hours playing these games and try to be the best they can be in any game they play.
There is more of us than you might think ^

Relevant portions highlighted

EDIT: My fault, well sort of – I was replying to the OP.

Fiennes.9568:

When you have completed all 33 explorable paths, you can come back here and say you’re hardcore.

i have done almost all of them with my guild some we are stuck on

Rush.8239:

think of it this way would you think of top guilds/players in the game as casual?
no they are hardcore guilds with hardcore players that want to be the best in the games they play. In gw2 there is no need for this type of players/guilds because its so casual in every aspect

My comment may be the same old reply always posted but:
I don’t think of “top players/guilds” at all. They are inconsiquential to me. What have they achieved? They did well palying a game. Good for them. It does not affect me or anyone else in the world.
The whole concept of hardcore gamign I find amusing. Next thing you know I’ll be asked whether e-books have damaged “hardcore readers” by making speed-reading and page grinding more casual friendly…

Rush.8239:

think of it this way would you think of top guilds/players in the game as casual?
no they are hardcore guilds with hardcore players that want to be the best in the games they play. In gw2 there is no need for this type of players/guilds because its so casual in every aspect

Tell that to the sPVP teams winning tournaments or the very organized guilds dominating WvW.

Top hardcore guilds in other games usually meant world first raid kills. Witch basically all it means is they have enough people willing to commit to x days of raiding a week.

Kailthir.6384:

I like a mix of both. Problem with hardcore games is it becomes a job that you do not get paid for. I like difficulty not easy. But what I don’t like is something so hard that you need 12934509128374509 people to complete it. Or that one boss fight takes 45 minutes to kill. Really 1 mob 30-45 minutes to kill. I am not talking about the jurney to get to the boss. I am talking about the boss himself.

Yes an exageration I know but you get the point. Also so of us players do not have all the time in the world to play. So a nice ballance of hardcore and casual things would be good mix. Would also help open up the game to more people.

The other issue is define a casual and hardcore player. I have over 150 hours playing the game… some would call me a hardcore gammer. I am only level 58 and for that reason some would call me casual because I didn’t reach level 80 in a week, bypassing alot of content. I call myself a completionist. I like to explore and get the most out of the game that I can. I want to find and do everything there is to do. I like to RP in a RPing game. Some call that hardcore, others don’t… So which defination do I fit in? I think alot of players are a mix of both.

Good post that.
Though 150 hours? Wow! I dont think I had time to even come close to that

First off, the words “hardcore” and “game” should never be used together. It’s a freakin’ game.

Secondly as all the babyboomers are getting older, the target audience for many games is getting older with us. Most of us have lives, families, jobs, etc.

Deal with it, or start your own game company. I know I’d like to start MY own game company because most games today stink on ice for one reason or another.

melkathi.5203:

Rush.8239:

think of it this way would you think of top guilds/players in the game as casual?
no they are hardcore guilds with hardcore players that want to be the best in the games they play. In gw2 there is no need for this type of players/guilds because its so casual in every aspect

My comment may be the same old reply always posted but:
I don’t think of “top players/guilds” at all. They are inconsiquential to me. What have they achieved? They did well palying a game. Good for them. It does not affect me or anyone else in the world.
The whole concept of hardcore gamign I find amusing. Next thing you know I’ll be asked whether e-books have damaged “hardcore readers” by making speed-reading and page grinding more casual friendly…

ofcourse thats how you see hardcore gamers, your casual and thats fine
these guilds/players dont care what you think either they are more interested in what other hardcore guilds/players think and their standing with each other .
when guilds compete against each other to kill that boss before anyone else , you know the type that gets server first or even world first.
or acheive the highest rank in pvp first or to be the first to get that legendary wep/armor , i guess you could define hardcore as gamers that want to compete with eachother and casual as gamers that play just to amuze themselves.

Fiennes.9568:

When you have completed all 33 explorable paths, you can come back here and say you’re hardcore.

Lets do a casual game. Then, in the only one hard content there is, we multiply the hp and damage of the enemies by 10 (why bother making them more intelligent when we can just make them do crazy damage). Voila, we have a hardcore game.

I think not.

@kal4350

so agree lol but i did read that they are working on it , so hopefully a big change is comming

It’s a sad day when people think ‘end game raiding’ in modern games is ‘hardcore’ or even hard, rather than just very time consuming. The amount of time put into a game should not alone provide your ability to play the game, without challange you’re simply being carried by gear. I don’t see how the reward at the end of something dictates the difficulty of the task rather than the task itself.

While GW2 is a step in the right direction, I would personally like to see this game made harder to play than it is at the moment. While I know this might not be eveyones cup of tea, I would be delighted to see a server or two where the game world was harder to survive in with smarter enemies hunting me down.

@budg

obtaining titles,gear, reputations that no other guild/player has got or being first to achieve is what makes you a hardcore gamer competing against each other for such thing etc

takin what content gives the best rewards and achieving them before anyone else, it just so happens in most other mmos raiding gave us those rewards .

in gw2 tell me what is hardcore

@OP if you think this is easy and your thinking about going back to wow….well your in for a surprise.

“O look..big boss…(Tank starts tanking)..i shall stand here and spam my awesomesauce multiple zeros dps ability for ten minutes and occasionally move 5 feet to avoid some aoe…O sweet purples…purples for everyone”

or

“O look big boss….(Tank starts tanking)…i shall stand here…ow wait.kitteni shouldnt ov stood in that fire area…my bad..everyone go repair and meet back in 5”

Just a little glimpse of the raiding scene. glhf

mechasauce.1309:

@OP if you think this is easy and your thinking about going back to wow….well your in for a surprise.

“O look..big boss…(Tank starts tanking)..i shall stand here and spam my awesomesauce multiple zeros dps ability for ten minutes and occasionally move 5 feet to avoid some aoe…O sweet purples…purples for everyone”

or

“O look big boss….(Tank starts tanking)…i shall stand here…ow wait.kitteni shouldnt ov stood in that fire area…my bad..everyone go repair and meet back in 5”

Just a little glimpse of the raiding scene. glhf

edited post because i dont want this becoming another wow vs gw2 thread

and comparing wow raiding with gw2 5 man dungeons is just fail especially if you say gw2 5 man dungeons is more fun

The games are made for the masses.

Most (educated guess here) players are casuals. Rarely there are people who “compete” in games, but most of us (myself included) simply do not have the time to invest into playing competitively.

Don’t get me wrong, I play for the win every single time. I call inc in randoms, I defend when needed and such, so in such a way I am not a casual player, because, as you said, I like to compete. On the other hand, I’ve played, in average, about 1-2 hours per day making it impossible for me to be “hardcore” simply because I don’t have enough time.

So, my answer to your question would be, yes, the games are made for casuals nowadays, but, each and every game will need to have a range of difficulty to keep as many people as possible playing (so, mix of casuals and hardcore).

Rush.8239:

edited post because i dont want this becoming another wow vs gw2 thread

and comparing wow raiding with gw2 5 man dungeons is just fail especially if you say gw2 5 man dungeons is more fun

WoW is a perfect example of what ANet (in this regard at least) should strive for. So, game is easy to the point that a 4 y.o. girl wouldn’t die in it, but, on the other hand, they have HC’s which (kind of, sort of, maybe) are challenging. On the side the whole “is it challenging or not” it gives people something to compete over.

I prefer lvling in GW2 (difficulty wise) to WoW, but so far I don’t see anything that will make the people in GW2 competitive in the PvE side of the game. Imo, ANet should do something about that.

Didnt say they were more fun..and im not comparing the two games against eachother…just letting you know that for a “Hardcore Gamer” wow is not gonna suit you.

btw if you think that you should be rewarded for every kitten action you do in a game…i think you need to come back to reality.

mechasauce.1309:

Didnt say they were more fun..and im not comparing the two games against eachother…just letting you know that for a “Hardcore Gamer” wow is not gonna suit you.

btw if you think that you should be rewarded for every kitten action you do in a game…i think you need to come back to reality.

yeah i do think you should be rewarded otherwise what is the point, that’s how i see it, and judging from the hundreds of threads already on this subject my guess is i’m not alone.

[/quote]
edited post because i dont want this becoming another wow vs gw2 thread

and comparing wow raiding with gw2 5 man dungeons is just fail especially if you say gw2 5 man dungeons is more fun

[/quote]

Really? So someone elses opinion (because that is what it is… an opinion) is fail because it dosen’t agree with your opinion. Unbelievable.

Where’s a MMO for explorers?

GW2 aside, the genre has stagnated over the last half decade because it’s focused on hardcore v. casual (mainly targeting casuals).

MMOs are basically glorified chat rooms; the world there for you to explore is the greatest distinction between it and other games. It’s not so much about putting RP back into RPG, because RP is largely a playstyle (akin to hardcore v. casual), but rather it’s about creating vivid worlds that are detailed enough to suspend disbelief.

“First off, the words “hardcore” and “game” should never be used together. It’s a freakin’ game.
Secondly as all the babyboomers are getting older, the target audience for many games is getting older with us. Most of us have lives, families, jobs, etc.”

This! I love games and I have loved them for 20 years, must I now stop playing games because I have RL commitments that don’t allow me to play8 hours a day?

“I don’t know whether i want gw2 to do well at all because i don’t want other company’s to keep rolling out these care bear games
I wish companys would just consider the hardcore players you know the type of players that go to game conventions , make youtube videos, spend hours playing these games and try to be the best they can be in any game they play.”

So now no-one else but people who you consider to be hardcore enough get to play games ever?
Did you even read what you wrote?

Rush.8239:

@budg

obtaining titles,gear, reputations that no other guild/player has got or being first to achieve is what makes you a hardcore gamer competing against each other for such thing etc

takin what content gives the best rewards and achieving them before anyone else, it just so happens in most other mmos raiding gave us those rewards .

in gw2 tell me what is hardcore

Because if there is no challange to this content then obtaining these things first is simply a matter of being the quickest guild to organise the neccessary members to run through the content. Content that is, more often than not, locked out to most players until they have the right gear to be able to compete for such rewards (which is a whole other basket of eggs for a different time).

I’m not trying to tell you its wrong to be competative among your peers, however, competition is only worth something if there is a challange present. After obtaining this server first title, what do you do then? Wait around until more content comes out? Replay the old content that no longer offers any form of challange or competition? Personally, I don’t find 20 people waking up at 5am to secure a server first hardcore at all. Dedicated yes, but at the end of the day the content is still nothing more than time consuming. Where is the pride in being the first group to beat easy content? Just try to understand, I’m not trying to belittle anyones achievements, I’m just trying to make the point that not everyone is the same and I suppose it’s probably hard to balance content for people of all ability ranges.

This all comes down to what each individual person defines as hardcore, as each person will be capable of different amounts of effort to put into these games. You are welcome to the content you enjoy, I would never try to take that away from you. I would just personally like to see more games with harder (not more time consuming) content to play.

And finally, I never implied GW2 was hardcore, nor have I ever stated it.

@morrigan.2809

huh did you even read what i wrote?

how does making games “mmorpgs” with hardcore elements make it so you cant play them?

this game has no end game content for hardcores, if they added some does that mean you have to to do it?

if you are casual then you wont care that other players that spend more time that you on the game have more stuff , your not competing with them so what do you care?

oh i see you think because you cant have what they have its not fair so you want all games to be casual so you dont miss out… i see

Rush.8239:

@morrigan.2809

huh did you even read what i wrote?

how does making games “mmorpgs” with hardcore elements make it so you cant play them?

this game has no end game content for hardcores, if they added some does that mean you have to to do it?

if you are casual then you wont care that other players that spend more time that you on the game have more stuff , your not competing with them so what do you care?

oh i see you think because you cant have what they have its not fair so you want all games to be casual so you dont miss out… i see

Oh please!
you are the one complaining that this game is not hardcore enough and you are the one who suggested companies should only cater to hardcore players – I think you used the term “care bear games” – cute
I couldn’t care less what kind of gear you run around in or how many titles you have.
My point was that there are people who are sick of that kind of thing- RL is competitive enough for me.
The fact that you even say this game has no end game for hardcores means that you completely missed what this game was about- They very very clearly said that the whole game is the end game and that you won’t have all that stuff that you want suddenly, boom- when you hit 80.
I personally hate games that make me rush to lvl cap so I can play the game.
This is not that game

Morrigan.2809:

Rush.8239:

@morrigan.2809

huh did you even read what i wrote?

how does making games “mmorpgs” with hardcore elements make it so you cant play them?

this game has no end game content for hardcores, if they added some does that mean you have to to do it?

if you are casual then you wont care that other players that spend more time that you on the game have more stuff , your not competing with them so what do you care?

oh i see you think because you cant have what they have its not fair so you want all games to be casual so you dont miss out… i see

Oh please!
you are the one complaining that this game is not hardcore enough and you are the one who suggested companies should only cater to hardcore players – I think you used the term “care bear games” – cute
I couldn’t care less what kind of gear you run around in or how many titles you have.
My point was that there are people who are sick of that kind of thing- RL is competitive enough for me.
The fact that you even say this game has no end game for hardcores means that you completely missed what this game was about- They very very clearly said that the whole game is the end game and that you won’t have all that stuff that you want suddenly, boom- when you hit 80.
I personally hate games that make me rush to lvl cap so I can play the game.
This is not that game

no i said companys should consider the hardcore players, i didnt say they should ONLY cater to them , dont be a moron

go away troll i wont reply to you anymore

Rush, tell us your definition of hardcore. Tell us what it means to be a hardcore player.

Spryt.8012:

What do you mean with hardcore. Like EQ1 hardcore?
Where you respawn naked and have to fight your way back to your corpse to get gear back?
Where dying in some places without any respawn or way to get back in?
Where disarm makes you drop your weapon on the ground for any player to pick up? Where mob spawns required for progression are so rare you need to camp the same spot for hours/days?

Won’t deny it was a lot of fun back in the day. But tbh if they released that 2012 I think I would have to pass.

I’m with you here. My first MMORPG experience was the original EQ and I wouldn’t trade that experience for what it’s worth. That game had a real sense of exploration, tangible danger and fear. The PvP servers were merciless hells… anyone who earned their stripes in original EQ PvP servers are the ONLY gamers worthy to call hardcore.

I think it would be very interesting if the devs were to set aside one or two GW2 servers with the game-rules altered to mimic the original EQ PvP servers (as far as possible). Then see how many self-proclaimed “hardcore” gamers (like the OP) would stick it out to 80 or go crying with their tail between their legs back to the safe, warm busom of the regular servers!

Budg.3064:

Rush, tell us your definition of hardcore. Tell us what it means to be a hardcore player.

Well that the rub isn’t it. There are may different concepts on what a hardcore and casual gamer is. I gave a good examole earlier in the thread. Some people think that having the best gear is hardcore, some think playing alot of hours is hardcore, and some think that skipping content to get to 80 as fast as you can is hardcore.

Point is… it’s all personal opnion. For anyone to say otherwise is just a lie.

Well, what is your definition of hardcore? Raiding? Gearing? Farming? Computing game mechanics and what not? If that is your definition of hardcore, then I don’t like it and I’m indeed a casual gamer.

I say I’m a casual gamer these days because the definition of hardcore changed to that – the WoW definition. But before WoW, I always say I’m a hardcore gamer because I am indeed a hardcore gamer. For example, I used to play UO, DAoC, and Lineage II to mention a few. MMOGs that doesn’t have a concept of “raiding”, “gearing”, etc. but still requires a lot of time.

I even say that I’m a hardcore PK’er – but today people say “PvP”. So what’s your “hardcore”? Do we have the same definition of it?

Because as far as I’m concerned, GW2 is a good game for hardcore gamers too. It just went back to the roots of RPGs / MMORPGs in certain areas, and back then, by the old definition, GW2 is still hardcore.

Kailthir.6384:

Budg.3064:

Rush, tell us your definition of hardcore. Tell us what it means to be a hardcore player.

Well that the rub isn’t it. There are may different concepts on what a hardcore and casual gamer is. I gave a good examole earlier in the thread. Some people think that having the best gear is hardcore, some think playing alot of hours is hardcore, and some think that skipping content to get to 80 as fast as you can is hardcore.

Point is… it’s all personal opnion. For anyone to say otherwise is just a lie.

Precisly, well said. This was a point I was trying to make earlier. It all comes down to how you play the game and what your perception of the game is.

Budg.3064:

Kailthir.6384:

Budg.3064:

Rush, tell us your definition of hardcore. Tell us what it means to be a hardcore player.

Well that the rub isn’t it. There are may different concepts on what a hardcore and casual gamer is. I gave a good examole earlier in the thread. Some people think that having the best gear is hardcore, some think playing alot of hours is hardcore, and some think that skipping content to get to 80 as fast as you can is hardcore.

Point is… it’s all personal opnion. For anyone to say otherwise is just a lie.

Precisly, well said. This was a point I was trying to make earlier. It all comes down to how you play the game and what your perception of the game is.

Oh I understood you Budg. Wasn’t trying to steal your thunder lol. Just putting it bluntly.

battlefield 3 has more progression than gw2, i like this game, but the lack of progression/endgame competitive pve totally kill it for me.
And pvp i hate spvp, it isnt focused enough in combat or skill, just run to bases, this and the downed state ruin pvp for me.

GW2 went WAY too casual. The whole game is a paint by numbers experience. The game has no soul, not sure how to say it really. Everything is so streamlined we just go through the motions. This game failed to innovate and instead went deeper into theme park territory than any other game.

I’m very disappointed overall. PvE is like playing an endless series of starting zones. There’s no evolution to how you play, it’s like being stuck with a low level character forever. It’s lame.

@OP You should have done your homework on the game before buying it, if you didnt like the “casual” aspect of it.

cesmode.4257:

@OP You should have done your homework on the game before buying it, if you didnt like the “casual” aspect of it.

Sadly Arenanet lied like there was no tomorrow.

The whole game being endgame for example. This is a flat out lie. Leveling up is just like any other game, perhaps even simpler.

Dynamic events? I won’t even bother repeating the nonsense they said about those before release.

Besides, I don’t think anyone really expected such a bland experience from GW2. I still can’t believe how dumbed down the character building is compared to the 1st game. It’s nuts.

Every mmo after Ultima Online is casual.

Spryt.8012:

What do you mean with hardcore. Like EQ1 hardcore?
Where you respawn naked and have to fight your way back to your corpse to get gear back?
Where dying in some places without any respawn or way to get back in?
Where disarm makes you drop your weapon on the ground for any player to pick up? Where mob spawns required for progression are so rare you need to camp the same spot for hours/days?

Won’t deny it was a lot of fun back in the day. But tbh if they released that 2012 I think I would have to pass.

Spryt hit the nail on the head here. The “hardcore” games now are cake compared to the earliest MMOs. Bittervet rant aside, while many current games do have many features that cater to casual gamers, there is still content for hardcore folks.

I think the problem lies in what is “hardcore”? Do you want hours running the same dungeon/raid again and again to get epic gear? Do you want to run the same PvP maps over and over to get the best PvP gear or kills? What makes the game work for “hardcore” players?

Game companies have to find the balance that attracts the largest audience. They are a for profit company after all. GW2 is a vast game. I do not have a level 80 character and can’t speak to what is available at that level. From what I gather in the forums though is that there isn’t “a lot” to do. All I have to say to this is; give it time. Let them have a couple months to work out launch bugs and smooth things out. I’m sure they won’t disappoint with the first content patch.

@TheBigCheese: I will admit whole heartedly that they could have chosen their words better with MANY things.
- Things that I was caught off guard, misunderstood, whatever:
In BWE1 I thought I could travel to any zone at any level and be bumped up in level. Not the case. But this was a plan for the game at some point, theres videos of Anet saying so, and a post by Anet on a German gaming site saying why they took it out of the game.
-Traveling back to older zones…30% reward and XP. Meh, kind of disappointed with this one.
-I thought the personal stories would be tailored to your class a bit as well. Very wrong here.
-Gear grind. Poor choice of words saying theres no grind or gear treadmill. But really, there is. At 80 you grind out, if you want, the max stat gear of your choice. Then you’re set! You can transmog other sets for aesthetics, but ultimately you just grinded the top tier gear. Now, when expansions come out will be the test of this issue. Will they give more gear that has greater stats, or simply cosmetic upgrades? If the gear has better stats than the exotic sets, then this game has a gear treadmill like any othe game and I garuntee people will leave in droves because of it. This is a cornerstone of the game and Im really anxious to see how they handle an expansion.

With that said, I dont think they flat out lied about things. It is still a good game, and honestly…I look at something like Orr as my “endgame”. Realistically in level 75-79 greens or blues, while at level 80, Orr is a pain. Its a pain to move through the zones, its a pain to get some of the points(unless you are with the zerg). I look at Orr as the challange at end game.

I haven’t seen Orr yet being level 55. Nothing has changed from 1-55 though and after reading “the endgame re imagined” I really did lose hope that things would get better.

As a fairly hardcore raider in wow (played 2 to 3 nights a week) I have to say that I enjoy raiding. The challenge and teamwork generated by some of the raiding content was pretty genius. A lot of people who insult wows raids as easy are wrong. An example was heigan, who didnt hit particularly hard but could shoot a wave of posion from the floor that insta killed you. The wave generated at certain points in the room so you had to learn to move around the room at the right time. Was almost a dance in its complexity.

I think this game would benefit from some more of that type of boss. Something with interesting mechanics. The end boss of crucible of eternity is actually a pretty good example of interesting mechanics where you have to hit people out of blocks.

1st ) Retuning the dungeons to add cool mechanics to bosses and mobs and lower the auto attack damage of mobs.

2nd ) Add a 10 and 20 player version of the current dungeons and scale them up accordingly. Reward current dungeon tokens for the larger versions.

3rd ) Do 5, 10 and 20 player explorable versions of the storymode dungeons.

I dont need the progression and gear grind from other mmo’s. I just want that type of content available for people like me who actually enjoyed raiding even if I wasnt getting better gear.

cesmode.4257:

I look at Orr as the challange at end game.

The problem with orr is that any dynamic event gets very zergy once you get a certain amount of people at the boss. Its just way to easy to be anything like an alternative to raiding.

To me the hardcore approach is where one needs to , focus one’s attention and mind on the activity, deliberate on actions and tactics constantly, be or develop adept muscle memory for the controls, and generally perform at the chosen game activities as well as the others approaching it similarly, or at least better than the majority of other players.

It’s inherently an “elite” approach to the activity, and it’s at least implicitly competitive, and often is overtly so.

My job is like that, and I don’t find it relaxing or fun. I get that some people do — and I think these are people who enjoy MMO’s as sports. To me it’s clear people who approach a game in this manner will want the difficulty ramped up, so that it separates those who can and will from those who can’t or won’t. Even aside the inter-player competition, they see accomplishment of difficult challenges to be defining of their game experience and how they derive enjoyment from it.

I don’t find that particularly fun; that to me is the definition of work, and it’s a style of activity I won’t generally do except for compensation. A lot of people are like me; we could approach the game the same way the performance-driven player do, but we don’t. Often because we’re simply not performance driven. We’re driven for the experience of it. The game is an ongoing experience for us, and we enjoy experiencing the story set out, the events that transpire, and the simple activities of exploring and fighting and social interaction with other players. We don’t expect the game to demand the level of performance from us that we’re fully capable of; we see it as a voluntary activity that produces fun, not one that demands work. It may be a difficult concept for a long-time hardcore gamer to understand, but we think and approach the game differently. Often those hard core gamers will snicker and deride us as not being up to it, but that says more about the minds of some of the hyper-competitive hard core gamer than it is about the rest of us. We just don’t care about reaching that level of performance in a game. It’s just a game after all. I leave that level of my performance for the workplace. And of course, there are people who can choose to enjoy the game either way.

From a business perspective, as it was said above, an MMO is a for profit operation that depends on a lot of sales and hence, appealing to a wide audience. Neither camp of players can have everything their way in a big, successful MMO — it needs them all as satisfied customers. To me, the key is ensuring that the core game experience has wide appeal, and that there are the more narrow experiences available to others. To my mind, the open world PvE is very casually approachable, the solo story lines a bit less so (I think they need some work yet to make them more solo/casual friendly), and I think the dungeons are definitely catering to the hard core performance players. I tried a few and just quit doing them. They’re not fun. Sure, I could learn the detailed tactics and builds needed to make them run smooth, but to me that’s work, and in my world, I expect to be paid for my work, and frankly, ArenaNet can’t afford my rates.

Shael and Sprty are correct; very correct.

Also, as sotose said, all games after UO are casual.

Definitions in gaming evolve over time. What was normal in the beginning with UO is now what I would consider to be “hardcore”. Now everyone’s opinion could be different concerning what hardcore is, but you cannot deny the fact that it’s definition evolves and changes.

If I was to demand that ArenaNet make this game more “hardcore”, and then go on to explain that I want player looting, PKing, no fast-travel system at all, you’d laugh at me and tell me I’m crazy.

In GW2 the entire game is “end-game”. They said it themselves. It is NOT a lie because some people have wildly different definitions of what “end-game” is. It was stated that you do the the same things at level 1 as at level 80. Period. Kinda like UO.

There is no yard stick for demonstrating player skill in PvE, never has been. You go to PvP for that, and do some PKing. Does it matter if the system is slightly broken if you rick-rool the same stooge over and over? Or take on 4 in a skirmish and come out last-man-standing? I’m pretty sure they remember your name.

I think some of the personal story bosses and dungeon bosses have decent mechanics. World bosses/DEs do not. The reason for that, Id imagine, is how would 30 people coordinate efforts? It needs to be toned down so that 30 people dont insta die all the time.