Guild Wars 2

tl; dr –
Do you want basic ascended items that can be acquired with much less grind?
For example, obtainable via karma, coins, laurels, crafting, drops etc.

Lets take a look at the Ascended Back Item for our example:

Both [Back Brace] and [Spineguard] [goes under armor] so there are no special skins for these 2 back items.

From here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment#Backpieces
We have the following ascended back items:

All the following require [1 Vial of Condensed Mist Essence], [40 Crystals], [50 Globs of Ectoplasm] and [250 Tier 6 Fine Crafting Material]

250 Vials of Powerful Blood (Book of Secrets, Quiver of Swift Flight)
250 Vicious Fangs (Koss on Koss, Bowyer’s Delight)
250 Armored Scales (Symon’s History of Ascalon, Sights Be True)
250 Vicious Claws (There with Yakkington: A Traveler’s Tale, Quiver of a Thousand Arrows)
250 Ancient Bones (Tome of the Rubicon, Endless Quiver)

The grind involved is outrageously long, if one does not buys additional [Tier 6 Fine Crafting Materials] from the trading post.

These 2 are a bit different:
Sclerite Karka Shell
1 Sclerite Karka Shell – from meta achievement
50 Globs of Ectoplasm – various grind
250 Karka Shells – kill mobs grind
100 Passion Flowers – harvest grind

Prototype Fractal Capacitor (Defensive / Offensive)
1 Prototype Fractal Capacitor (exotic) – bought with [1350 Fractal Relics]
240 Philosopher’s Stones / 40 Crystals – 24 skill points / levels
1 Vial of Condensed Mists Essence – rare drop in [Fractals of the Mist]
1 Gift of Ascension – bought with [500 Fractal Relics]

i.e. Prototype Fractal Capacitor needs a total of 1850 fractal relics to make.

At the moment, all ascended back items have fancy skins and take quite a lot of grind to acquire them.

What if, people do not want fancy skins, just a normal ascended back brace or spineguard that does not have fancy skin?

And with that we end the example regarding the Ascended Back Items!

Now comes the magical survey question:
Do you want [Ascended] [Items] without fancy skins that can be acquired without having to go through outrageous grind? Like say, acquisition via:
- karma vendor
- laurels vendor
- coins, orders vendor
- crafting
- drops

Thanks for reading!

Bored of back items now…given us loads recently…

How about ascended/exotic air breathers for a change?

Meglobob.8620:

Bored of back items now…given us loads recently…

How about ascended/exotic air breathers for a change?

yes, loads, but what about people who want ascended stats (for back items) but do not want the grind involved to get the fancy skins back items?

and yes we need rare, exotic or ascended breathing masks!
even better if we can craft them.

hmmm i will make another survey for them breathing masks later.

It would be nice to eventually be able to make/get a ascended backpieces without doing Fractals (sure you have the Sclerite one, but I’m talking all stat options). I just got tired of crap drop rate in annoying Fractals so I gave up on finishing the backpiece myself. But I guess they want to keep it in Fractals for the time being.

Katreyn.4218:

It would be nice to eventually be able to make/get a ascended backpieces without doing Fractals (sure you have the Sclerite one, but I’m talking all stat options). I just got tired of crap drop rate in annoying Fractals so I gave up on finishing the backpiece myself. But I guess they want to keep it in Fractals for the time being.

yes! we need more options!

and everyone else is fine with the grind?

I’ve made 4 ascended back pieces so far, one for each of my 80s. One was the apothecary one, which was easy and great for my ranger, and the other 3 were Mystic Forge recipes listed by the OP (Book of Secrets, Koss on Koss & Endless Quiver).

Unlike the amulets, rings and accessories, the backs are pretty much a straight money sink and feel a lot less gated. My guild commendations and laurels are time-linked in a much harder fashion than my gold, and actually I really enjoyed being able to make the backs as soon as I had the money together.

I’d be fine with backs being available in WvW for badges + (stuff); even a Mystic Forge recipe that used 250 badges or even better, the Gift of Battle!

Oh, and on a somewhat related note I would like more uses for the Gift of Mastery. I have one of these going unloved in my bank. If I could turn it into an ascended item… that would be sweet.

I really like the idea of having these more available under the various currencies in the OP. And, as mentioned the aqua breather really needs some attention from Anet.

thanks for the feedback!

edited the title.

hope it gets a bit more attention now.

reduce the amount of t6 needed from 250 to 50-100ish, issue fixed

Empressium.5482:

reduce the amount of t6 needed from 250 to 50-100ish, issue fixed

well, i think, if they did that, then those who already spent 250 will rage.

i think some grind or expensive price for “special skins” is still reasonably acceptable.

let there be no skins / basic skins option for a less grinding alternative!

Yes the ascended backpieces should definitely be available with less grind. They are ridiculous.

Okay, I keep seeing a lot of these “surveys” and I have to say the responses you will get are kinda obvious. Its like saying “survey: do you want free money?” >.>

Penguin.5197:

Okay, I keep seeing a lot of these “surveys” and I have to say the responses you will get are kinda obvious. Its like saying “survey: do you want free money?” >.>

well, i made them “surveys” because, i dunno, some people will say no. yes, i think some people will say no to free money!

errr because they believe that rewards only comes to those who work for it, etc? O_O

Youre complaining about 1 stack of t6 mats? Try making a legendary.

AHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Gasoline.2570:

Youre complaining about 1 stack of t6 mats? Try making a legendary.

AHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

well, they are called legendaries for a good reason.

them legendaries are a different tier though.
and at the moment, the legendary weapons have the same stats as exotic weapons.
so it is an outrageous grind for a special skin. i can accept that. well, for me.

but, there is a difference in stats of the ascended back item versus an exotic back item though.

i.e. 22 16 16 vs 56 35 35

that is err … more than 100% stats difference?
for the back item i mean.

Gasoline.2570:

Youre complaining about 1 stack of t6 mats? Try making a legendary.

AHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Hmm a legendary weapon compared to a backpiece. Bit of a difference I would say.

dat not the point

Gasoline.2570:

dat not the point

hmmm what is the point then?

Point is, grinding stack of t6 is silly with these droprates.

How many reaaally complained when this recipe was introduced? Not that many.

Why? It was doable.

Gasoline.2570:

Point is, grinding stack of t6 is silly with these droprates.

How many reaaally complained when this recipe was introduced? Not that many.

Why? It was doable.

hmmm all right.
well, i did not say it as not doable.
it certainly is doable.

i want a less grind version without special skin.
i.e. those back brace and spineguard which “goes under armor” thing.

No it’s not doable. Go out there and try to grind 250 of a t6 mat.

Gasoline.2570:

No it’s not doable. Go out there and try to grind 250 of a t6 mat.

but you said it was doable! O_O

hmmm well, during the secret of southsun event, before the nerf on skelks, the drop rate for t6 bloods and fangs was still acceptable.

nowadays, i think the drop rate is very low.

it will take a very long time to get 250 tier 6 fine crafting materials if did not resort to buying them off the trading post.

No I said it was doable before all the loot nerfs. Exactly. It’s horrendeously bad now.

Gasoline.2570:

No I said it was doable before all the loot nerfs. Exactly. It’s horrendeously bad now.

oooo paste tense all right i geddit now!

aye! that’s why!
the grind involved is horrible!
and i dun even want the quivers or books on my characters’ back!
i just want the ascended stats for the back item!

so … here i am!
a survey!

to see if anyone else feels the same!

Gasoline.2570:

Point is, grinding stack of t6 is silly with these droprates.

How many reaaally complained when this recipe was introduced? Not that many.

Many. And Chris Whiteside agreed in his AMA that it was a problem, and promised it will be addressed. Too bad he forgot most of his promises on the next day.

Astralporing.1957:

Gasoline.2570:

Point is, grinding stack of t6 is silly with these droprates.

How many reaaally complained when this recipe was introduced? Not that many.

Many. And Chris Whiteside agreed in his AMA that it was a problem, and promised it will be addressed. Too bad he forgot most of his promises on the next day.

hmmmm let us remind them then !!!

The Prototype Fractal Capacitor should be included in the laurel merchant, as all other the other ascended items (minus some mystic forge recipes for skins)

Otherwise they would not fulfill the promise they made on November.

Would be appropriate to have ascended recipes for crafters too, and karma vendors.

Broad the options.

But at the very least, include it in the laurel merchant for now.

well, at least buy-able with laurels is an option.

but a basic icon / no special display skin bought with karma would be very nice !!!

Am OK with current cost.

Definitely not against a Karma sink, as Karma feels like a very neglected currency. Not sure an ascended back piece would be the best place to put it though. All in all, don’t like this idea. Leave as is.

Ultima Thule.3950:

The Prototype Fractal Capacitor should be included in the laurel merchant.

Please no. I hate the idea of the laurel merchant being a one stop shop for everything, especially something unique to a dungeon. If there HAS to be something added, the basic icon non-skinned w. ascended stats is most appropriate. As above, however, i’m against this period.

LFk.1408:

Please no. I hate the idea of the laurel merchant being a one stop shop for everything, especially something unique to a dungeon. If there HAS to be something added, the basic icon non-skinned w. ascended stats is most appropriate. As above, however, i’m against this period.

I don’t care about the look so I’m OK with a non skinned ascendable backpiece being added to the laurel merchant.

LFk.1408:

Am OK with current cost.

Definitely not against a Karma sink, as Karma feels like a very neglected currency. Not sure an ascended back piece would be the best place to put it though. All in all, don’t like this idea. Leave as is.

Ultima Thule.3950:

The Prototype Fractal Capacitor should be included in the laurel merchant.

Please no. I hate the idea of the laurel merchant being a one stop shop for everything, especially something unique to a dungeon. If there HAS to be something added, the basic icon non-skinned w. ascended stats is most appropriate. As above, however, i’m against this period.

huh? don’t like what idea? O_O
laurels for ascended back piece u mean?

“the basic icon non-skinned w. ascended stats is most appropriate.”
ya ya there must be others like me who do not want fancy display skins for back item and the outrageous grind that comes along with it!

How about some actual in game content like armor sets and weapon sets, new areas to explore, new stories to follow, new something to do…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

huh? don’t like what idea? O_O
laurels for ascended back piece u mean?

Reduction of requirements to make the Ascended Backpiece. I believe the current cost is fair. I generally dislike making anything too easy, as it already is for the majority of the game.

I just want more stat combinations for back pieces. They are so severely limited at this point.

LFk.1408:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

huh? don’t like what idea? O_O
laurels for ascended back piece u mean?

Reduction of requirements to make the Ascended Backpiece. I believe the current cost is fair. I generally dislike making anything too easy, as it already is for the majority of the game.

ah i see.

well, fair or not fair, it depends on how you look at it.

1. outrageous grind for special display skin = fair
2. reasonable grind for basic icon, no special display skin = fair

at the moment, the 2nd option does not option, and that is not fair to me.

1850 fractal relics for an ascended back item with a very few combinations is quite an outrageous grind. for me, and i believe many others too.

this game is meant to be easy by the way.
generally, i mean.

there are some hard, difficult challenges but overall is meant to be casual friendly.

for example, the basic icon no display skin ascended back item could be priced at at least 100k karma or higher.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

for example, the basic icon no display skin ascended back item could be priced at at least 100k karma or higher.

I’d buy it for that.

morrolan.9608:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

for example, the basic icon no display skin ascended back item could be priced at at least 100k karma or higher.

I’d buy it for that.

hmmm i would too.
but what about the others?

i am sure they would be many others people who want less grinding alternatives to ascended back items.

perhaps i need to change the title again.

morrolan.9608:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

for example, the basic icon no display skin ascended back item could be priced at at least 100k karma or higher.

I’d buy it for that.

100k karma per piece was the value i proposed once for generic skin ascended eq (available from the temple karma vendors). I still consider it a fair price.
I don’t think it should be restricted to backpacks only, though.

Astralporing.1957:

morrolan.9608:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

for example, the basic icon no display skin ascended back item could be priced at at least 100k karma or higher.

I’d buy it for that.

100k karma per piece was the value i proposed once for generic skin ascended eq (available from the temple karma vendors). I still consider it a fair price.
I don’t think it should be restricted to backpacks only, though.

well, i use the back item as a start, since at the moment, the amount of grind involved is extremely outrageous.

we need more support.

where are all the people that oppose grind?

I agree.

I was on my way to the zerker backpiece until they nerfed the skelk farm during the SS event. Unfortunately, I just lost interest after that and I gave up on it because I don’t enjoy Fractals at all either(even though I have the piece needed to make it).

The karma idea makes sense really. It seems like they are kind of trying to push people into events and things which already reward karma so why not? The other problem is that even the exotic versions are hard to come by. There’s the karma options from the temple vendors, the fractal one that takes too long, and then the extremely rare dungeon drops. Either way, there’s not enough stat options for the pieces obtained outside of Fractals.

Only thing that needs nerfing is the requirement for a Vial of Mist Essence, which is what forces people to play the RNG game in fractals. Everything else is appropriate. No one bought these back pieces for the skins, mostly because the skins aren’t worth it. Saying that you should get a massively cheaper option, because it’s generic, is not a compromise.

Moreover, the stat increase from exotic to ascended backpiece is tiny. If you really, really, really think you need it… then it’s worth that amount of gold to you. If you don’t… then make do with an exotic.

Olvendred.3027:

Only thing that needs nerfing is the requirement for a Vial of Mist Essence, which is what forces people to play the RNG game in fractals. Everything else is appropriate. No one bought these back pieces for the skins, mostly because the skins aren’t worth it. Saying that you should get a massively cheaper option, because it’s generic, is not a compromise.

Moreover, the stat increase from exotic to ascended backpiece is tiny. If you really, really, really think you need it… then it’s worth that amount of gold to you. If you don’t… then make do with an exotic.

karma, coins, laurels etc other forms of grind is “massively cheaper” you mean? how so?

well, my stance remains the same.

outrageous grind for special skins + stats is acceptable.
outrageous grind for stats only is NOT acceptable.

thanks for your feedback though!

tiny increase?
exotic soldiers spineguard
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soldier%27s_Spineguard
+22 Power
+16 Toughness
+16 Vitality
+1 Unused Upgrade Slot

say, insert a
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crest_of_the_Soldier
+20 Power
+14 Toughness
+14 Vitality

we get:
+42 Power
+30 Toughness
+30 Vitality

ascended soldier’s stats fractal capacitor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prototype_Fractal_Capacitor_
+56 Power
+35 Toughness
+35 Vitality

42 30 30 vs 56 35 35

not exactly tiny.

multiple those difference by 6 trinkets items, or even 12 to 14 when they shove ascended armor stats and ascended weapon stats down our throats.

not tiny difference.

I think what people need to realise is that you really don’t need ascended gear outside the fractals (and I’m going to make one exception to this later but it won’t concern the back piece).
Ascended items have more or less the same stats as upgraded exotic items (I know there is a difference, but it really is minimal). This means that you can already get back items with almost the same stats as the ascended ones at karma vendors, guild traders, BLTP, etc. The only advantage those ascended items have is the infusion slot, which you’ll only need for agony resistance if you’re a frequent fractal runner. (Again, I know that there are other infusions that give you 4 on any stat, but yeah…4).
So basically, if you’re running fractals frequently, you’ll stack up on fractal relics eventually and be able to buy the ascended back piece. If you’re not running the fractals, go and buy an exotic back piece. If you’re not running fractals frequently but you want ascended gear for the +5 in stats, you really do deserve a bit of grind.
The only exception I’m going to let count to this are ascended amulets with utility infusion slots, which you can use for infusions with +20% gold find, +20% MF, +20% Exp. or +15% karma. Those, however, you can buy at the laurel vendors.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Olvendred.3027:

Only thing that needs nerfing is the requirement for a Vial of Mist Essence, which is what forces people to play the RNG game in fractals. Everything else is appropriate. No one bought these back pieces for the skins, mostly because the skins aren’t worth it. Saying that you should get a massively cheaper option, because it’s generic, is not a compromise.

Moreover, the stat increase from exotic to ascended backpiece is tiny. If you really, really, really think you need it… then it’s worth that amount of gold to you. If you don’t… then make do with an exotic.

karma, coins, laurels etc other forms of grind is “massively cheaper” you mean? how so?

well, my stance remains the same.

outrageous grind for special skins + stats is acceptable.
outrageous grind for stats only is NOT acceptable.

thanks for your feedback though!

tiny increase?
exotic soldiers spineguard
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soldier%27s_Spineguard
+22 Power
+16 Toughness
+16 Vitality
+1 Unused Upgrade Slot

say, insert a
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crest_of_the_Soldier
+20 Power
+14 Toughness
+14 Vitality

we get:
+42 Power
+30 Toughness
+30 Vitality

ascended soldier’s stats fractal capacitor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prototype_Fractal_Capacitor_
+56 Power
+35 Toughness
+35 Vitality

42 30 30 vs 56 35 35

not exactly tiny.

multiple those difference by 6 trinkets items, or even 12 to 14 when they shove ascended armor stats and ascended weapon stats down our throats.

not tiny difference.

Let’s say we don’t use the Crest of the Soldier then, but
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Azurite_Jewel

That’s
+25 Power
+15 Toughness
+15 Vitality.

That’ll get you to
+ 47 Power
+ 31 Toughness
+ 31 Vitality

That really is a tiny difference. And I’m not going to let your “mutiply this by…”-argument count, because you can really buy all the other ascended gear at laurel vendors if you so desire (although I’d still argue it’s not really worth it, if you don’t run fractals a lot.)

that’s why we need more alternatives!

reaching max stats in PvE / WvW should not involve outrageous grind!

outrageous grind for very special skins is fine.
but not for max stats!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

that’s why we need more alternatives!

reaching max stats in PvE / WvW should not involve outrageous grind!

outrageous grind for very special skins is fine.
but not for max stats!

Well, that’s your opinion that you’re entitled to, but I think you’ll find many users on here disagreeing.
Reaching good stats shouldn’t require any grinding and so far it doesn’t. I’ve had all my charatcers on full exo by the time I finished their personal story.
However, if you’re a true elitist and you’re going to go for that extra 0.08% (which is currently roughly the difference in stats between full exo and full ascended) because otherwise it doesn’t feel like max stats, I think it’s okay if that requires some grind.

Meglobob.8620:

Bored of back items now…given us loads recently…

How about ascended/exotic air breathers for a change?

I wish I could wear my breather on land for my warrior, all the heavy helmets are not in my taste.

However yes, ascended items should be bought with karma ranging around 100-126 thousand. Use for Laurels? Use them to get awesome armour/weapon skins and other cool things.

but why would they disagree?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but why would they disagree?

Let me rephrase my statement in form of a question.
If you wouldn’t want people to "grind"* for a final stat increase that is significantly below 1%, what would you make them grind for? Every other grind just seems more unfair to me.

*I’m using grind in inverted commas here because I think if you’re actually grinding for ascended gear (i.e. trying to craft it in the mystic forge), you’re doing it wrong, but that’s your choice, not the games’.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but why would they disagree?

Let me rephrase my statement in form of a question.
If you wouldn’t want people to “grind” for a final stat increase that is significantly below 1%, what would you make them grind for? Every other grind just seems more unfair to me.

grind for special display skins!