Guild Wars 2

Simple question: does the champion loot system run counter to ArenaNet’s desire to get players back into the open world? By now we all know the champion loot system has increased traffic in Lost Shores, Frostgorge Sound, and Queensdale. And it’s no secret that many dynamic events go untouched for sometimes days at a time (this predates the champion loot system).

Do you think the developers should bother trying to encourage players to get back into the open world? If so, how do you think they should go about doing so? Or is it just the nature of beast that MMOs players – by and large – just want to grind for loot?

PS – On a slightly related note (but only slightly), the champion loot changes killed my server’s WvW. We (Blackgate) were winning (often by a good margin) week after week before the change, now we’re in last by a considerable margin. It’s far too early to know if this is just a temporary occurrence, but it’d be a shame to see my server’s WvW community crumble because of “shinies”.

champs on WvW also drop chest i believe :|

if not trick them :P hey lets do the grub dance!?

first you forgot to mention youve changed to a higher tier thats more the reason prob why your in last place then the champs giving better loot. increased people in lost shores or frostgate is a good thing even if they arent doing the dynamic events. theres a chance a solo person who needs help with those asks in chat gets the help instead of having no one to hear then ask for help. now queensdale always had a champ train already and that area alone might be worse of by the champ loot so 2 plus one neg and one other difference because of tier change makes it an equal so it balances out to a better thing

There is some validity to this post.

The introduction of champ loot has led to zerg loot trains in a few select maps. Also, the introduction of the crown pavilion has led to zerg farming the bosses there.

Both of these seem very counter to the idea of getting people ‘out to the maps’ to explore.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

There is some validity to this post.

The introduction of champ loot has led to zerg loot trains in a few select maps. Also, the introduction of the crown pavilion has led to zerg farming the bosses there.

Both of these seem very counter to the idea of getting people ‘out to the maps’ to explore.

Which leads me to suspect that both CP and the champion loot are Anet testing the waters to see just how popular farming really is, in reality. Once they’ve got the numbers they can proceed in whatever direction they decide to proceed given that knowledge.

My further suspicion is that, to some extent, they’ve come to terms with the fact that the game as designed in the manifesto has only been a partial success, and that most players, being conditioned to farming from other MMOs, simply cannot or will not take the game in the spirit that it’s been designed, have no real interest in DEs, or in roleplaying (lite) or in the virtual world, but only in “shinies.” That’s probably a bit of a disappointment to them, on the one hand, as creative people, but on the other hand, as businesspeople, I’m sure they’ll accommodate, since it makes life easier for them: designing complex and interesting DEs has got to be harder than designing something like the CP or changing loot tables.

In the end, the majority will get what it wants, whatever it wants. If the majority is skritt-brained, then Anet will produce shinies.

gurugeorge.9857:

Which leads me to suspect that both CP and the champion loot are Anet testing the waters to see just how popular farming really is, in reality. Once they’ve got the numbers they can proceed in whatever direction they decide to proceed given that knowledge.

My further suspicion is that, to some extent, they’ve come to terms with the fact that the game as designed in the manifesto has only been a partial success, and that most players, being conditioned to farming from other MMOs, simply cannot or will not take the game in the spirit that it’s been designed, have no real interest in DEs, or in roleplaying (lite) or in the virtual world, but only in “shinies.” That’s probably a bit of a disappointment to them, on the one hand, as creative people, but on the other hand, as businesspeople, I’m sure they’ll accommodate, since it makes life easier for them: designing complex and interesting DEs has got to be harder than designing something like the CP or changing loot tables.

In the end, the majority will get what it wants, whatever it wants. If the majority is skritt-brained, then Anet will produce shinies.

I agree with everything you said…every word of it.

Personally, I made this my game of choice because of the game the developers originally envisioned (that in the Manifesto), and I’d hate to see it become something else. I suspect the developers will be disappointed when they see just how many people are in it for the loot. I can only hope they find the resolve to make the tough choice of doubling down on the game they wanted to make and not compromise and turn this game into something it was never supposed to be.

I understand money above all else will steer the course of this game; but if Guild Wars was able to thrive without pandering to the skritt-brained, then some part of me holds out hope that Guild Wars 2 can do the same.

Please please please don’t turn this into a manifesto thread. Nothing good ever comes of it.

Moving on.

I agree that Anet is going to have to cater to farmer in this game because the MMO demographic has been conditioned to pursue a life of task -> reward. The best we can hope for is that the task part be as fun as possible. I think Anet is testing the waters, and really what they are trying to do is get the community to participate in all the different aspects of the game as evenly as possible. The champ loot system was designed with the intent to get people back in to Cursed Shore and Southsun. The dungeon reward changes were designed with the intent to get people out of CoF1 and spread out in to all the other dungeons evenly. Both seem to be working so far.

Imo they should increase the rewards from event chain chests all over the world. I can think of quite a few event chains in remote areas that were fun to do and had a lot of people there for them in the first ~month of the game’s life.

But now those remote areas and events might as well not be there. If they ever get around to adding new ways to get precursor weapons putting them in exclusive event chests might go a long ways towards fixing that problem.

That seems like to much to ask though.

What you say is valid,but not applicable to old players.
I’ve done every DE and every event chain in Tyria,
at least 20 times.In some cases hundreds of times.
I’m on my 3rd r80, and I’m also leveling one more
alt.
I don’t see why killing champs is farming,but doing
the same events and chains over and over again isn’t.
DEs have their value for new players,but for someone who’s
been here since d1,it is more like,been there done that.
And as a farming experience,the champ trains or the
Crown Pavilion,is a lot better than DEs and their chains.
DEs are not meant to be farmed.Their purpose is to give
the impression of a dynamic and eventful world,but as soon
as you start repeating them they loose their magic,and they
become as boring as the normal quests in any other MMO.
And my opinion is that GW2 is,amongst other things,
a farmers game.a pretty good one.
There is a side to it that is more Diablo than it is WoW.

The difference is that event chains can’t be chained together. It happens, you wait 2, 3, 4 hours for it to happen again.

With champs there is no down time.

You kill A
You kill B
You kill C
You kill D
You kill E

Then back to A. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum with very little down time.

Events you can’t farm. Champs you can.

fellyn.5083:

The difference is that event chains can’t be chained together. It happens, you wait 2, 3, 4 hours for it to happen again.

With champs there is no down time.

You kill A
You kill B
You kill C
You kill D
You kill E

Then back to A. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum with very little down time.

Events you can’t farm. Champs you can.

ember in cursed shore you can thats an event that can give up to 20 champs in 8 mins WOOOT

darkace.8925:

gurugeorge.9857:

Which leads me to suspect that both CP and the champion loot are Anet testing the waters to see just how popular farming really is, in reality. Once they’ve got the numbers they can proceed in whatever direction they decide to proceed given that knowledge.

My further suspicion is that, to some extent, they’ve come to terms with the fact that the game as designed in the manifesto has only been a partial success, and that most players, being conditioned to farming from other MMOs, simply cannot or will not take the game in the spirit that it’s been designed, have no real interest in DEs, or in roleplaying (lite) or in the virtual world, but only in “shinies.” That’s probably a bit of a disappointment to them, on the one hand, as creative people, but on the other hand, as businesspeople, I’m sure they’ll accommodate, since it makes life easier for them: designing complex and interesting DEs has got to be harder than designing something like the CP or changing loot tables.

In the end, the majority will get what it wants, whatever it wants. If the majority is skritt-brained, then Anet will produce shinies.

I agree with everything you said…every word of it.

Personally, I made this my game of choice because of the game the developers originally envisioned (that in the Manifesto), and I’d hate to see it become something else. I suspect the developers will be disappointed when they see just how many people are in it for the loot. I can only hope they find the resolve to make the tough choice of doubling down on the game they wanted to make and not compromise and turn this game into something it was never supposed to be.

I understand money above all else will steer the course of this game; but if Guild Wars was able to thrive without pandering to the skritt-brained, then some part of me holds out hope that Guild Wars 2 can do the same.

The original Guild Wars was full of shinies! Locked chests, margonite gemstones and whatnot. I played it for a long time getting all my shinies together.