Guild Wars 2

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

raiden.9024:

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

My assumption is the 5-man limit is so because this is how the dungeons have been balanced? Guild Wars 1 also had 12-man instances in elite areas – there is nothing to say higher capacity instances will not be implemented in future.

In addition to the above, Aion’s maximum party size for instances was 6. That’s only one more, and it called itself an MMO. Aion didn’t even have Dynamic Events. As for hearts – did you see Queensdale on release? That first heart area at the farm, oh lord, the people. Of course you complete the content for yourself, but when it comes to fighting monsters you can fight the same monster as any other player and still receive heart completion progress.

You seem to be trying to push another “Definitions Game” like so many interwebbers like to do. I’m not buying your arguments.

Sarie.1630:

raiden.9024:

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

My assumption is the 5-man limit is so because this is how the dungeons have been balanced? Guild Wars 1 also had 12-man instances in elite areas – there is nothing to say higher capacity instances will not be implemented in future.

In addition to the above, Aion’s maximum party size for instances was 6. That’s only one more, and it called itself an MMO. Aion didn’t even have Dynamic Events. As for hearts – did you see Queensdale on release? That first heart area at the farm, oh lord, the people. Of course you complete the content for yourself, but when it comes to fighting monsters you can fight the same monster as any other player and still receive heart completion progress.

You seem to be trying to push another “Definitions Game” like so many interwebbers like to do. I’m not buying your arguments.

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

1. Massive Multiplayer Online is an open world concept with many people. RPG’s are common to dungeons, do to their tie backs to Dungeons and Dragons. Cooperating is an assumed mechanism inherent in MMO’s. Therefore cooperative dungeons is expected in an MMORPG. Dynamic Events fit the bill for MMO as well. It’s great this game has both.

2. This game is buy 2 play and is not pay 2 win. Many free 2 play games are pay 2 win. That is the key difference. In reference to anti-bots, take this analogy. Assume the streets are rampant with criminals, you hire a police force to deal with the problem. Once the criminals are all in jail, do you fire the entire police force? No, you keep them there to enforce the peace and deter others from criminal behaviour.

3. The devs have said they are not anti-farming, so I am sure they are actively working on ways to ensure people can play the way they want while also not encouraging bots and destroying the economy. It is good that many materials are rare, this allows for a more healthy economy. You can play the way you want, as long as it doesn’t negatively effect the community as a whole.

3.b) You can play the way you want. You cannot get the rewards the way you want. If you want to kill the same thing over and over again, you can. Your rewards will diminish, but that doesn’t stop you from being able to kill it. If you want to say that rewards are part of playing the way you want, well I want to be given a legendary item ticket for logging in. kitten why can’t I play the way I want?! Kitten.

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

DR still exists for the same reason that once you ramp up the police presence in an area to reduce crime it stays that way. It’s an active deterrent to prevent the problem from returning.

DR isn’t just for F2P aspects, it’s to control and limit supply plain and simple. If too much supply comes into a market, its price collapses. Scarcity of supply is important to control an economy. But unlike the real world, cows don’t respawn a minute or two later at the slaughterhouse. Trees don’t regrow that quickly. Blueberry bushes don’t yield berries 10,000,000 times a year.

So the choices are, reduce the respawn rate, which they do per player for the gathering nodes, but that will leave an world empty of critters which would be boring or you slap DR on it. This way everyone sees a world full of critters in which only those new to the area will get a reasonable drop rate and supply will stay reasonably scarce.

raiden.9024:

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

You’re deviating.

Doesn’t make it any less of an MMO in my eyes.

You aren’t rectifying common misconceptions, you’re spreading them. :-/

Guild Wars 2 has stuff to do for individuals, stuff to do for parties of any size, stuff to do for 5 man organized groups, stuff to do for massive unorganized crowds, and stuff to do for big organized groups like guilds. You can choose what you’d like to participate in on a multiplayer capacity, and it is massive in scale at its heart.

Everything in the gem store, no matter what it is, can be purchased with in-game gold by converting to gems. All comparisons to true F2P games fall so unendingly flat with me as a result. Just save up and buy what you want, or spend some money and support the game. I’ve done both and I’ll keep doing both.

If grinding tons of mobs for hours on end is how you “play you you want,” then do it. There’s unlimited farming opportunities out there in Tyria for you to go braindead from. What you’re reacting to is certain farming spots being nerfed when they become disproportionately popular which is the way it has gone in every scenario like this all the time ever. Farming DR isn’t even likely to affect a human player unless you’re staying in a 10×10 box of the gameworld for hours, and again if you really want to just keep going you can.

Don’t confuse people further by ill-defining the terms.

The police force/DR analogy is a bad one. What the police do is identify criminals and remove them. The best way to identify and remove bots absent something in the client like Warden is through data-mining techniques in a data warehouse. It is extremely easy to model bot-like behavior and identify the bots in the game data.

As far as DR and the economy go consider another large MMO with a similar economy, sans RLT, WoW. In WoW I often would craft a set of max-level gear for friends as it would quickly get them into heroics. It would take hours to farm the mats, and I did it in the same spot. At the end of the farming session I would be getting the same amount of mats as in the beginning of the session. How is it possible for this to happen without the economy collapsing around the players?

DR really has no reason for its existence and penalizes players simply for playing the game. It’s an idea whose time has gone.

Raine.1394:

The police force/DR analogy is a bad one. What the police do is identify criminals and remove them. The best way to identify and remove bots absent something in the client like Warden is through data-mining techniques in a data warehouse. It is extremely easy to model bot-like behavior and identify the bots in the game data.

As far as DR and the economy go consider another large MMO with a similar economy, sans RLT, WoW. In WoW I often would craft a set of max-level gear for friends as it would quickly get them into heroics. It would take hours to farm the mats, and I did it in the same spot. At the end of the farming session I would be getting the same amount of mats as in the beginning of the session. How is it possible for this to happen without the economy collapsing around the players?

DR really has no reason for its existence and penalizes players simply for playing the game. It’s an idea whose time has gone.

Except the strongest part of the police force is their presence as a deterrent, not their actual actions. DR is like any form of crime deterrents.

Hard to compare WoW to GW2 in terms of economy, because in WoW there are a limited number of nodes. In GW2 everyone has their own nodes they can access, therefore these materials are effectively not limited. As for drops, WoW has much less spawning enemies than GW2, and anyone who tags an enemy in GW2 receives the loot, whereas in WoW only the party who attacked it first gets it. These additions make playing together more fun, but they also add a lot more loot. DR is the way to restrict or limit this loot in GW2. In WoW it is done by not allowing everyone to have access to the loot.

What is DR? Sorry, I’m sorta new to GW2 and all I do is WvW – but I’ve been thinking about doing some PvE to farm some gold to get a legendary.

Is there a cap on farming or something? I play quite a bit, 15-18 hours a day and I was going to go balls to the wall farming to get this legendary as quick as I can, so i can get back out into WvW.

r z.7261:

What is DR? Sorry, I’m sorta new to GW2 and all I do is WvW – but I’ve been thinking about doing some PvE to farm some gold to get a legendary.

Is there a cap on farming or something? I play quite a bit, 15-18 hours a day and I was going to go balls to the wall farming to get this legendary as quick as I can, so i can get back out into WvW.

DR = Diminishing Returns. If you kill the same creature in the same area over and over again, your loot will eventually diminish. For regular play, you should never notice it (I don’t), but if you farm somewhere you’ll notice it.

DR also affects dungeons, if you run the same dungeon path over and over again, the end reward will diminish. First run = 60 tokens, then 30 then 20 (i think? I always hit accept without looking at the numbers). The silver reward also reduces.

Jemmi.6058:

r z.7261:

What is DR? Sorry, I’m sorta new to GW2 and all I do is WvW – but I’ve been thinking about doing some PvE to farm some gold to get a legendary.

Is there a cap on farming or something? I play quite a bit, 15-18 hours a day and I was going to go balls to the wall farming to get this legendary as quick as I can, so i can get back out into WvW.

DR = Diminishing Returns. If you kill the same creature in the same area over and over again, your loot will eventually diminish. For regular play, you should never notice it (I don’t), but if you farm somewhere you’ll notice it.

DR also affects dungeons, if you run the same dungeon path over and over again, the end reward will diminish. First run = 60 tokens, then 30 then 20 (i think? I always hit accept without looking at the numbers). The silver reward also reduces.

Hmm, so why do I always see people farming CoF P1 for gold if there’s DR? And thank you for answering my question.

r z.7261:

Jemmi.6058:

r z.7261:

What is DR? Sorry, I’m sorta new to GW2 and all I do is WvW – but I’ve been thinking about doing some PvE to farm some gold to get a legendary.

Is there a cap on farming or something? I play quite a bit, 15-18 hours a day and I was going to go balls to the wall farming to get this legendary as quick as I can, so i can get back out into WvW.

DR = Diminishing Returns. If you kill the same creature in the same area over and over again, your loot will eventually diminish. For regular play, you should never notice it (I don’t), but if you farm somewhere you’ll notice it.

DR also affects dungeons, if you run the same dungeon path over and over again, the end reward will diminish. First run = 60 tokens, then 30 then 20 (i think? I always hit accept without looking at the numbers). The silver reward also reduces.

Hmm, so why do I always see people farming CoF P1 for gold if there’s DR? And thank you for answering my question.

After 3 runs the return is the same, and is still decent (just not as good as the first run). This resets after a day. The path if speedrun will take ~5-6 minutes, and if run in a decent non speedrun group will take ~10 minutes. The run is really fast, so even the diminished returns after the 3rd run produce decent gold. Also, you can log on a different character and get full benefit. It is common practice in my guild for 5 of us to run it and swap characters each run.

Jemmi.6058:

r z.7261:

Jemmi.6058:

r z.7261:

What is DR? Sorry, I’m sorta new to GW2 and all I do is WvW – but I’ve been thinking about doing some PvE to farm some gold to get a legendary.

Is there a cap on farming or something? I play quite a bit, 15-18 hours a day and I was going to go balls to the wall farming to get this legendary as quick as I can, so i can get back out into WvW.

DR = Diminishing Returns. If you kill the same creature in the same area over and over again, your loot will eventually diminish. For regular play, you should never notice it (I don’t), but if you farm somewhere you’ll notice it.

DR also affects dungeons, if you run the same dungeon path over and over again, the end reward will diminish. First run = 60 tokens, then 30 then 20 (i think? I always hit accept without looking at the numbers). The silver reward also reduces.

Hmm, so why do I always see people farming CoF P1 for gold if there’s DR? And thank you for answering my question.

After 3 runs the return is the same, and is still decent (just not as good as the first run). This resets after a day. The path if speedrun will take ~5-6 minutes, and if run in a decent non speedrun group will take ~10 minutes. The run is really fast, so even the diminished returns after the 3rd run produce decent gold. Also, you can log on a different character and get full benefit. It is common practice in my guild for 5 of us to run it and swap characters each run.

Thank you very much.

Jemmi.6058:

Raine.1394:

The police force/DR analogy is a bad one. What the police do is identify criminals and remove them. The best way to identify and remove bots absent something in the client like Warden is through data-mining techniques in a data warehouse. It is extremely easy to model bot-like behavior and identify the bots in the game data.

As far as DR and the economy go consider another large MMO with a similar economy, sans RLT, WoW. In WoW I often would craft a set of max-level gear for friends as it would quickly get them into heroics. It would take hours to farm the mats, and I did it in the same spot. At the end of the farming session I would be getting the same amount of mats as in the beginning of the session. How is it possible for this to happen without the economy collapsing around the players?

DR really has no reason for its existence and penalizes players simply for playing the game. It’s an idea whose time has gone.

Except the strongest part of the police force is their presence as a deterrent, not their actual actions. DR is like any form of crime deterrents.

Hard to compare WoW to GW2 in terms of economy, because in WoW there are a limited number of nodes. In GW2 everyone has their own nodes they can access, therefore these materials are effectively not limited. As for drops, WoW has much less spawning enemies than GW2, and anyone who tags an enemy in GW2 receives the loot, whereas in WoW only the party who attacked it first gets it. These additions make playing together more fun, but they also add a lot more loot. DR is the way to restrict or limit this loot in GW2. In WoW it is done by not allowing everyone to have access to the loot.

Except, DR does nothing whatsoever to deter bots. It simply reduces the amount of goods received by bots and players equally. Imagine a police force that punished law abiding citizens and criminals equally. Now there is a good analogy for police and DR.

In WoW I wasn’t farming competitive nodes in my example and there was little competition for mobs in terms of tagging. They were simply there and I farmed them. Also, in WoW there are far more nodes available and farming nodes whether mining or herbs there would be far more available than in GW2. I’m talking stacks and stacks of mats from a typical farming session—far beyond what is possible in GW2. I’m afraid the question still stands. How is this possible in a game like WoW without the economy collapsing?

Raine.1394:

Except, DR does nothing whatsoever to deter bots. It simply reduces the amount of goods received by bots and players equally. Imagine a police force that punished law abiding citizens and criminals equally. Now there is a good analogy for police and DR.

In WoW I wasn’t farming competitive nodes in my example and there was little competition for mobs in terms of tagging. They were simply there and I farmed them. Also, in WoW there are far more nodes available and farming nodes whether mining or herbs there would be far more available than in GW2. I’m talking stacks and stacks of mats from a typical farming session—far beyond what is possible in GW2. I’m afraid the question still stands. How is this possible in a game like WoW without the economy collapsing?

DR does act to deter bots. You are correct that it also affects the public. Think of this more like police doing road block Breathalyzer tests (do they do that where you live?). You get stopped whether you were drinking or not, and this is to deter people from drinking. Everyone is affected negatively. You can also think of it like security at an airport etc. It happens all the time that the general public receives inconvenience for the sake of the community at large.

Your individual example for WoW needs to be taken in the context of WoW as a whole. The fact that nodes can only be mined if you have that profession trained, and that a mine can only be mined by one person, and that loot can only be from the party are all important factors. The entire loot table in WoW is going to be less, because not everyone can tag something for loot. Here you have lots of people with little loot, in WoW you have less people with lots of loot. That is how it is possible. That is also why here the prices are much less than in WoW.

Jemmi.6058:

Raine.1394:

Except, DR does nothing whatsoever to deter bots. It simply reduces the amount of goods received by bots and players equally. Imagine a police force that punished law abiding citizens and criminals equally. Now there is a good analogy for police and DR.

In WoW I wasn’t farming competitive nodes in my example and there was little competition for mobs in terms of tagging. They were simply there and I farmed them. Also, in WoW there are far more nodes available and farming nodes whether mining or herbs there would be far more available than in GW2. I’m talking stacks and stacks of mats from a typical farming session—far beyond what is possible in GW2. I’m afraid the question still stands. How is this possible in a game like WoW without the economy collapsing?

DR does act to deter bots. You are correct that it also affects the public. Think of this more like police doing road block Breathalyzer tests (do they do that where you live?). You get stopped whether you were drinking or not, and this is to deter people from drinking. Everyone is affected negatively. You can also think of it like security at an airport etc. It happens all the time that the general public receives inconvenience for the sake of the community at large.

Your individual example for WoW needs to be taken in the context of WoW as a whole. The fact that nodes can only be mined if you have that profession trained, and that a mine can only be mined by one person, and that loot can only be from the party are all important factors. The entire loot table in WoW is going to be less, because not everyone can tag something for loot. Here you have lots of people with little loot, in WoW you have less people with lots of loot. That is how it is possible. That is also why here the prices are much less than in WoW.

Look up the word deter. DR does nothing whatsover to deter bots. It doesn’t even inconvenience them—they’re bots—they just run. DR simply reduces the loot for bots and players equally.

What I’m saying about WoW is that, with all it’s many different features in place, I get a lot more loot from farming in WoW than I do in GW2, all the while without encountering DR. I would ask how this is possible to do without the economy collapsing again, but I think I’ve made the point clearly.

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

1. Game developers have decided that finding large organized groups for dungeons would be hard, hence the 5 man limit. Other MMOs limit the amount of people in their dungeons as well. The difference is only the limit.
2. You have an option to buy the objects in the gem store with in game gold. Games like warcraft do not allow such charity – buyable mounts in the store are strictly buy with money only.
3. You can still kill mobs if it is relaxing to you. You will just get less. Less danger = less reward.

Raine.1394:

Look up the word deter. DR does nothing whatsover to deter bots. It doesn’t even inconvenience them—they’re bots—they just run. DR simply reduces the loot for bots and players equally.

What I’m saying about WoW is that, with all it’s many different features in place, I get a lot more loot from farming in WoW than I do in GW2, all the while without encountering DR. I would ask how this is possible to do without the economy collapsing again, but I think I’ve made the point clearly.

Your point is not clear. You have asked why you can get a lot of loot in WoW and not a lot in GW2 and how in WoW you are not destroying the economy but in GW2 you would. My answer is you wouldn’t personally, but the economy would be ruined. This would be because everyone would get insane amounts of materials and the market would be flooded with it. Everything would approach having 0 price in the TP and would therefore get rid of the entire purpose of the TP.

The reason this does not happen in WoW is because resources are limited. No 2 people can access the same resource. No mass of people can loot the same enemy mob. In GW2, not only can every person access every node, but you can access it on all of your characters. In GW2 every person gets loot that tags a mob. In GW2 Dynamic Events occur constantly that spawn hundreds of loot dropping enemies. Therefore the amount of resource potential is almost limitless. In order to put a limit on it, ANet introduced DR.

Bots are there, put in place by actual people. These people have motives. These motives can be deterred. These motives are deterred through DR. I understand what deter means.

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

I guess you missed the whole WvW/commander thing. Or eight vs eight PvP. Good job there.

raiden.9024:

Sarie.1630:

raiden.9024:

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

My assumption is the 5-man limit is so because this is how the dungeons have been balanced? Guild Wars 1 also had 12-man instances in elite areas – there is nothing to say higher capacity instances will not be implemented in future.

In addition to the above, Aion’s maximum party size for instances was 6. That’s only one more, and it called itself an MMO. Aion didn’t even have Dynamic Events. As for hearts – did you see Queensdale on release? That first heart area at the farm, oh lord, the people. Of course you complete the content for yourself, but when it comes to fighting monsters you can fight the same monster as any other player and still receive heart completion progress.

You seem to be trying to push another “Definitions Game” like so many interwebbers like to do. I’m not buying your arguments.

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

Guild Wars 2 is most assuredly not a “next-gen” MMO. It’s an evolution not a revolution. Why? Because people don’t jump, they walk. They want what they’re used to in various degrees and if you change it too much, most won’t even consider the game. This was part of the problem with Guild Wars 1. Great game, but didn’t catch on quite the way games like WoW did, because it was too different from what people were expected.

Anet learned from this and made some changes. Subtle and vital changes, but not complete changes. This game is better than most MMOs on the market, to the point where newer games coming out are starting to copy it.

Individual nodes for gathering. No mob tagging (everyone gets full experience), everyone can rez everyone else, no tank (taunt mechanic), no dedicated healers, no static questing, dynamic events (as opposed to just Rifts), downed state (which was in other genres of games but not MMOs), underwater combat that actually changes your skills, and you don’t have to keep surfacing…this game has added a lot to the genre, some of which will become standard moving forward.

Is it next-gen? I don’t think so. But I didn’t think it would be before it launched either.

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

I guess you missed the whole WvW/commander thing. Or eight vs eight PvP. Good job there.

Didn’t include w3 because that is MMO my point was in other posts ppl claim 5mans= MMOs and ppl who don’t party to do them need to play skyrim….. As for 8v8 I’d stick that with 5 mans lots of games offer 8v8s but don’t call it a MMO

Honestly, if World of Warcraft never had 20+ man raids, people would not be complaining about a 5 person limit to dungeons. Stop holding Guild Wars 2 to World of Warcraft standards. They are DIFFERENT GAMES. If you want to play with more people in Guild Wars 2 because you think it’s a better game, play World versus World. However if you think 20+ man raids make World of Warcraft a better game, go play THAT!

Arena Net is NOT going to read your post and go “ kitten you’re right, let’s add 10 man dungeons”. They will do what they want, when they want, because it’s their game. You can give suggestions to improve this game, and if enough people bring attention to those suggestions, they may be implemented. However do NOT criticize this game for doing something different from another game, and say it needs to change simply because it is different. The game in a whole is not 5-man, only dungeons. So don’t judge an entire game by your so-called “standards” of what an MMO should be, based on just one aspect of the game.

Curo.2483:

Honestly, if World of Warcraft never had 20+ man raids, people would not be complaining about a 5 person limit to dungeons. Stop holding Guild Wars 2 to World of Warcraft standards. They are DIFFERENT GAMES. If you want to play with more people in Guild Wars 2 because you think it’s a better game, play World versus World. However if you think 20+ man raids make World of Warcraft a better game, go play THAT!

Who said WoW was better?

DR never deterred bots, it just lessened their impact. Bots did not decline appreciably until Anet formed an anti bot team to data mine and introduce bot detecting code into the game. Check the forums history, you can time the decrease in roaming bot trains with the announcement of the dedicated anti bot team, not the introduction of DR.

GOLD SINKS is the answer everyone seems to be missing. WoW’s economy doesn’t fail without DR because there are mounts that cost thousands (120k now-108 with rep) of gold. Tabbards, gear, minis… there are so many things in that game that make gold “go away.” I know there are some gold sinks in GW2, but no where near the level of WoW’s mounts alone.

Boatdrinks.2546:

GOLD SINKS is the answer everyone seems to be missing. WoW’s economy doesn’t fail without DR because there are mounts that cost thousands (120k now-108 with rep) of gold. Tabbards, gear, minis… there are so many things in that game that make gold “go away.” I know there are some gold sinks in GW2, but no where near the level of WoW’s mounts alone.

Players shouldn’t be punished for that oversight

raiden.9024:

Boatdrinks.2546:

GOLD SINKS is the answer everyone seems to be missing. WoW’s economy doesn’t fail without DR because there are mounts that cost thousands (120k now-108 with rep) of gold. Tabbards, gear, minis… there are so many things in that game that make gold “go away.” I know there are some gold sinks in GW2, but no where near the level of WoW’s mounts alone.

Players shouldn’t be punished for that oversight

It is the reason WoW’s economy hasn’t collapsed without DR. You keep bringing up that point.

I didn’t bring up WoW other than to comment that " who said WoW was better"

Boatdrinks.2546:

GOLD SINKS is the answer everyone seems to be missing. WoW’s economy doesn’t fail without DR because there are mounts that cost thousands (120k now-108 with rep) of gold. Tabbards, gear, minis… there are so many things in that game that make gold “go away.” I know there are some gold sinks in GW2, but no where near the level of WoW’s mounts alone.

they’re still on the road to infinite inflation in WoW. With how inflated it is in WoW they would benefit from putting in a new currency really.

raiden.9024:

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

I guess you missed the whole WvW/commander thing. Or eight vs eight PvP. Good job there.

Didn’t include w3 because that is MMO my point was in other posts ppl claim 5mans= MMOs and ppl who don’t party to do them need to play skyrim….. As for 8v8 I’d stick that with 5 mans lots of games offer 8v8s but don’t call it a MMO

There are still things for guilds to do in the open world. Guild missions are more than 5 people. The temples in Orr are more than five people. There are plenty of people doing temples at the same time in Orr, making this game massively multiplayer. If you choose to ignore it, that’s fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s there.

raiden.9024:

Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

Buying DAO got me the quests and storyline that were in the release. Additional quests added later cost extra. Just so, GW2 launched with many skins available. Those are the skins you paid for. Businesses have the right to decide what a given price buys and what it doesn’t.

Sounds like you’re thinking that a B2P game is like a sub game, where the initial purchase plus sub fee entitles you to all content produced. Oh, and in GW2 you can buy those new skins with gems gained by exchanging for gold. You just want not to have to. You can dislike the business setup, but calling it “not right” is just you having an entitlement issue based on experiences in a different game under a different business model.

Raine.1394:

What I’m saying about WoW is that, with all it’s many different features in place, I get a lot more loot from farming in WoW than I do in GW2, all the while without encountering DR. I would ask how this is possible to do without the economy collapsing again, but I think I’ve made the point clearly.

This is so different from my experience in WoW that I have to comment. I made gold in WoW by harvesting crafting mats and selling them on the AH. Loot from farming mobs was hardly ever more than vendor trash. The blue gear drops sold reasonably well, but I got two BoE ones in 13 months of play, hardly something I would consider farmable. So, what did I miss?

Anet is also not anti-farming. Case in point: CoF1. If they were, they’d nerf/buff cof a looooong time ago already.

@rz
Because even if you get less and less tokens and reward at the END of the dungeon, the rewards/loot for killing the first and last boss remains the same. (10+s for the first and 15+s for the final boss) Chests also aren’t affected by DR (but they give crap loot anyway). If you can do a cof run fast enough, you get a lot of silver just by killing those bosses over and over again.

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

I guess you missed the whole WvW/commander thing. Or eight vs eight PvP. Good job there.

Didn’t include w3 because that is MMO my point was in other posts ppl claim 5mans= MMOs and ppl who don’t party to do them need to play skyrim….. As for 8v8 I’d stick that with 5 mans lots of games offer 8v8s but don’t call it a MMO

There are still things for guilds to do in the open world. Guild missions are more than 5 people. The temples in Orr are more than five people. There are plenty of people doing temples at the same time in Orr, making this game massively multiplayer. If you choose to ignore it, that’s fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s there.

Did u even read my OP? That’s the things I called what MMO is

raiden.9024:

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

Vayne.8563:

raiden.9024:

After reading through the forums a bit I think some ppl are confused :P

1st up MMO Massively Multiplayer Online, this can mean many things but nowhere in the description does Massively Multiplayer Online mean 5 mans/dungeons, running about doing hearts, helping ppl do skillpoints, DE events are all Massively Multiplayer Online events, 5 man seems to limit the amount of players in groups or in play not really a Massively group, Multiplayer yes that word is right for 5mans but so is Mario kart :P

2nd up GW2 is a B2P game we paid for it, but yet we get a F2P game mechanics as in DR and the Gem store, first up DR was put in a while after launch to combat bots, with bots under control why is DR still here ? Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

3rd farming, many ppl play MMOs to relax, chill out and just grind mobs, and yet even with the slogan of “play your way” the ppl who like to farm are limited to how and were they can farm by the DR coding, again in a F2P game sure u expect some limits but GW2 isn’t free, it might help crafters make more of a profit, cheaper mats sell item for more like in any MMO.

I guess you missed the whole WvW/commander thing. Or eight vs eight PvP. Good job there.

Didn’t include w3 because that is MMO my point was in other posts ppl claim 5mans= MMOs and ppl who don’t party to do them need to play skyrim….. As for 8v8 I’d stick that with 5 mans lots of games offer 8v8s but don’t call it a MMO

There are still things for guilds to do in the open world. Guild missions are more than 5 people. The temples in Orr are more than five people. There are plenty of people doing temples at the same time in Orr, making this game massively multiplayer. If you choose to ignore it, that’s fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s there.

Did u even read my OP? That’s the things I called what MMO is

I did read it…and I just reread it. I don’t think it’s clear enough. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

raiden.9024:

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

And yet you want to ruin it with a “farming for gear” / gear grind mindset.

Kichwas.7152:

raiden.9024:

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

And yet you want to ruin it with a “farming for gear” / gear grind mindset.

Were did I say I want a gear grind?

JoxerNL.3752:

Raine.1394:

What I’m saying about WoW is that, with all it’s many different features in place, I get a lot more loot from farming in WoW than I do in GW2, all the while without encountering DR. I would ask how this is possible to do without the economy collapsing again, but I think I’ve made the point clearly.

Then go back to WoW?
Im sure you can make yourself a pretty little ninja panda with ribbons in his hair

That post is inspired to think he wants to make gw2 better by explaining how he can farm inWoW with no dr, but yeah keep telling ppl to leave gw2 just don’t cry when they do.

raiden.9024:

Kichwas.7152:

raiden.9024:

Gw2 is meant to be a next gen MMO not an old way of doing things

And yet you want to ruin it with a “farming for gear” / gear grind mindset.

Were did I say I want a gear grind?

“Next Gen”, does not begin until around the end of the year, a little ahead of Yourself there.

Five man groups mean a lot of things:

• Each player’s contributions matter more
• Keeps combat exciting and dynamic without being chaos in a game without a trinity
• Easier to find a group because you require fewer people in the group

Rising Dusk.2408:

Five man groups mean a lot of things:

• Each player’s contributions matter more
• Keeps combat exciting and dynamic without being chaos in a game without a trinity
• Easier to find a group because you require fewer people in the group

Wait you can find a party to say Arah faster than u can do a group event(DE) I must been playing a different game when I sat for almost week waiting for a party to end the story.

raiden.9024:

Wait you can find a party to say Arah faster than u can do a group event(DE) I must been playing a different game when I sat for almost week waiting for a party to end the story.

I find pugs for Arah regularly, but I also use all available channels. Anyway, imagine how bad your experience would be if it were a 40-man raid.

raiden.9024:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Five man groups mean a lot of things:

• Each player’s contributions matter more
• Keeps combat exciting and dynamic without being chaos in a game without a trinity
• Easier to find a group because you require fewer people in the group

Wait you can find a party to say Arah faster than u can do a group event(DE) I must been playing a different game when I sat for almost week waiting for a party to end the story.

Wow, maybe it is your server? I have completed Arah Story 5x now and have never waited that long. Twice I found a group reasonably quick running around Orr and looking for LFG Arah Story and throwing it out in map chat myself. I’ve done a guild run once too. and Twice I found a group using GW2LFG.com and I think it took ~5-10 minutes.

However, if you posted to GW2LFG.com I am sure you would get a group pretty quick too.

Jemmi.6058:

raiden.9024:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Five man groups mean a lot of things:

• Each player’s contributions matter more
• Keeps combat exciting and dynamic without being chaos in a game without a trinity
• Easier to find a group because you require fewer people in the group

Wait you can find a party to say Arah faster than u can do a group event(DE) I must been playing a different game when I sat for almost week waiting for a party to end the story.

Wow, maybe it is your server? I have completed Arah Story 5x now and have never waited that long. Twice I found a group reasonably quick running around Orr and looking for LFG Arah Story and throwing it out in map chat myself. I’ve done a guild run once too. and Twice I found a group using GW2LFG.com and I think it took ~5-10 minutes.

However, if you posted to GW2LFG.com I am sure you would get a group pretty quick too.

its not the server 2nd biggest in W3 and “full” or it was havnt looked in awhile no1 does it. I don’t use 3rd party sites :P its up to Anet to provide a LFD tool not for me to go looking for one

True, I want a LFG tool. Though as I said, 3 of the 5x I have done it, I did not use GW2LFG.com. One of those was just a couple weeks ago, and the first one was in September.

Anyway, I am unsure how it could take so long to find a group for it on a pretty active server.

Shrugs

Jemmi.6058:

True, I want a LFG tool. Though as I said, 3 of the 5x I have done it, I did not use GW2LFG.com. One of those was just a couple weeks ago, and the first one was in September.

Anyway, I am unsure how it could take so long to find a group for it on a pretty active server.

Shrugs

this was about erm 4-5 months back if that helps

raiden.9024:

I don’t use 3rd party sites :P

then chances are you’ll never find groups for Arah explore. http://www.gw2lfg.com/ this is what most players use in GW2 and it helps greatly with getting a group. Essentially you can get a pug for any dungeon as long as you’re searching on active hours.