condition vs direct damage.
The main reason why I made a condition build was because
A) It ignores toughness and therefore renders all toughness stacking players useless
b) You can remain tanky while dealing a decent amount of damage through conditions
In pvp conditions work really well, it’s pve (dungeons, fractals) where they just aren’t super efficient. I’m not saying they don’t work, but it’s much faster (and with a specific group set up, easier) to just bring direct damage. But if your having issues with that stuff in pvp you should watch some videos and learn some tricks. My guild mates almost all run condi classes and they do great.
In general, condition damage isn’t amazingly low; in a decently-made build, several classes can reach 3-4k damage per second from conditions alone in PvE (my elementalist can get up to 4k damage per second, 3.3k of which is full AoE, in a good situation and about 20% more with might stack support – this before direct damage)
Considering a condition build generally gets to keep a defensive stat, and generally focus less traits on raw damage compared to zerker builds, the damage output is pretty decent. It’s also pretty consistent thanks to ignoring armor – if there’s a mob that takes 50% damage from direct damage, condi players are still dealing 3-4k damage per second to it, which may end up being higher than a zerker player. (On the other hand, the dredge fractal’s final boss doesn’t take increased damage from conditions when superheated, and other bosses with similar stun-to-massively-increase-damage mechanics are the same)
In PvP condition damage is more easily negated than direct damage… and a lot of builds that should be weak to it due to not including vitality in gear stats just bring loads of removal (e.g. bunker ele/guard in Knight or Cleric gear has enough removal to completely shut down a condition build, even though theoretically having no vitality should make them exceptionally weak to conditions)
In PvE the main limitation on conditions is the stack limit. ArenaNet have actually acknowledged this is an issue that they’re working on, we just haven’t heard any details for the last couple months. Depending on the solution, it may end up making condition damage superior for some world bosses (several mega-bosses like the dragons apparently have crit immunity, which essentially reduces berserker gear to V/T-lacking Soldier gear); avoiding that may be part of the reason for the delay.
Condition damage works worse the more people there are using it on the same target. This is why it can be OK in sPvP as long as your applications can outlast the cleansing, is fine in solo PvE and may be OK in small group play (depending on how many are applying them). Big DE’s is where it offers the least, because chances are that enough people will be using them to cancel out some of the others.
Two people can usually stack bleeds/confusion without too much overlap — unless one is capable of sustaining the max 25 stacks alone, but poison/burning is not quite that forgiving with only “one” stack. The other 25-stack condition, Vulnerability, does no damage on its own, so it doesn’t much matter who is applying it — except that those stacking condition damage may get less yield from +25% direct damage because their direct damage has likely taken a hit by their stacking condition damage.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.
When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
Bleeding and burning work on earth elementals. “Immersion” is basically the absolutely most disgusting way to justify shoddy core game mechanics.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
Bleeding and burning work on earth elementals. “Immersion” is basically the absolutely most disgusting way to justify shoddy core game mechanics.
Elemental could in theory bleed his magic juice, since its imaginary monster so its makers can say it has some sort of life juice going thru it. What does flow thru stone wall, that can damage it by bleeding out?
Elemental could in theory bleed his magic juice, since its imaginary monster so its makers can say it has some sort of life juice going thru it. What does flow thru stone wall, that can damage it by bleeding out?
That is not my point at all and a strongly suggest you reread my post. Stone walls shouldn’t bleed because they have some property that draws a parallel to an organism bleeding, it should bleed because it would be unfair to condition builds otherwise.
Elemental could in theory bleed his magic juice, since its imaginary monster so its makers can say it has some sort of life juice going thru it. What does flow thru stone wall, that can damage it by bleeding out?
That is not my point at all and a strongly suggest you reread my post. Stone walls shouldn’t bleed because they have some property that draws a parallel to an organism bleeding, it should bleed because it would be unfair to condition builds otherwise.
So if i train myself to run 100m sprint i can say athletics are unfair since i cant endure marathon? Is it some sort of revelation that types of dmg has pros and cons? Condition builds should use siege equipment to bring structures in wvw, and in open world nobody cares about structures…
On side note, structure dmg is related to power, more you have faster you bring structure down. Makes sense doesnt it?
(edited by kRiza krimos.1637)
Way to side-track the conversation. His point to the original poster, who is weighing the pros and cons of a condition build, is condition damage doesn’t work on structures. It is most certainly annoying in PvE, or anywhere else, to stand in front a catapult and hack away for 60 seconds to knock it down. It is something to be aware of. Whether or not stone bleeds sounds like a conversation for the metaphysical forum.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
you can burn everything including metal, so yeah they needed to fix this forever especially for burn heavy classes like guardian/engineer.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
you can burn everything including metal, so yeah they needed to fix this forever especially for burn heavy classes like guardian/engineer.
How does metal catch fire? You can melt metal but you cant burn it. But anyway, lets not go into debate about temperatures required for that.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
you can burn everything including metal, so yeah they needed to fix this forever especially for burn heavy classes like guardian/engineer.
How does metal catch fire? You can melt metal but you cant burn it. But anyway, lets not go into debate about temperatures required for that.
Plenty of metals burn. Sodium burns if exposed to air. Mg strips are a classic chemistry lab experiment. You can ignite steel wool or iron shavings. Check out how oxyacetylene cutting torches work.
Arguing physics/chemistry to justify video game mechanics is stupid.
Back on topic- condition builds can shine if you adapt your tactics a bit. In a single target dps race, conditions lose big time. If you gather up a bunch of baddies and can stack up conditions on all of them (epidemic, say) you can burn down 5 at a time rather efficiently. Although hun-kitten blades does the same thing due to stupid enemy AI.
Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.
you can burn everything including metal, so yeah they needed to fix this forever especially for burn heavy classes like guardian/engineer.
How does metal catch fire? You can melt metal but you cant burn it. But anyway, lets not go into debate about temperatures required for that.
Plenty of metals burn. Sodium burns if exposed to air. Mg strips are a classic chemistry lab experiment. You can ignite steel wool or iron shavings. Check out how oxyacetylene cutting torches work.
Arguing physics/chemistry to justify video game mechanics is stupid.
Back on topic- condition builds can shine if you adapt your tactics a bit. In a single target dps race, conditions lose big time. If you gather up a bunch of baddies and can stack up conditions on all of them (epidemic, say) you can burn down 5 at a time rather efficiently. Although hun-kitten blades does the same thing due to stupid enemy AI.
That is why were not arguing about it, but using common sense. Metal wall wont catch fire from common source like torch. Once they start building constructions from combustable elements you will have valid point.
Also, when we use term metal in this sort of debate we usually mean steel or other indusrty metals used in forge and construction works. So we weren’t debating physics/chemistry but common logic.
If you want to look at it in a logical way, I don’t think blades would be very effective or metal doors in that way. However there is no penalty there, except not being able to crit.
I would like to see an opinion from Anet on this matter, as I enjoy condition builds the most.