Guild Wars 2

Strayhand.8216:

Vasham.2408:

I’d be careful telling people to go back to WoW. The way current population trends are showing makes it seem most GW2 players are following that advice.

So…? We should rather tell them to play a game they don’t like? If they like their precious WoW better, they should go back. If they want raiding, why did they come to GW2…? This game shouldn’t prosper because it’s “better than WoW”, but because it’s good on it’s own. Not to mention it shouldn’t be compared with WoW at all, which some people still can’t understand… WoW raids and their “replayability” based on the gear treadmill is the most boring thing I can imagine in a game, it’s more boring than anything I can do in GW2. The best thing is that I don’t have to play GW2 4 hours a day every day. I guess it’s subjective, but I don’t want that magical endgame you miss from this game, which keeps you occupied all in your freetime, I want GW2 to be simply a game which I’m logging into when I like and have some fun. If this means it “dies” in a year, then so be it, there are other fun games. My biggest problem with games is that I only have 24 hours a day and I can’t play all the games I want, and then there are other thing I have to or want to do in my freetime, so I don’t want ONE game to take all my freetime. GW2 gives me FREEDOM compared to those 3-4 hour FRIKKIN BORING raid-sessions in WoW.

By the way, weren’t these things said about GW1 when it started? Everyone compared it to WoW, they said it’s bad and it will die because it has no real PvE, everyone wanted it to be another WoW… And look how it died. You don’t need 10 million subscribers for a game to be successful, not every game is for the masses. You can’t please everyone, and there is no such thing everyone will like.

No, but you have to look at some of the issues and stop sugar coating them, and it’s not so much that the answer of “go back to x” is somehow going to kill the game if people comply, it’s that it’s completely pointless spam in terms of discussion value.
I may as well go to the players helping players section and respond in each thread with either

“figure it out yourself” or “cos that’s the why”

IT.IS.NOT.A.PROPER.DISCUSSION.POINT.

Yeah being locked into one type of gear treadmill progression in wow is terrible, the “loot pvp” is ridiculous at this point, and they’ve pretty much destroyed tanking with their new itemization exacerbating the prior stated point about loot pvp.
But at least you’re not penalized for farming and or working towards a goal, their bot problem is gone, why is the DR still there?

xardrion.4607:

Why do i go to work? For the paycheck ofc. We need rewards and not a game that stops a week after you hit 80.
Dont get me wrong , the mechanics are actually good, BUT you are more or less not going to play a singleplayer game forever, due to GAMEPLAY getting duller over time.
You may call everyone that wants goals apart from cosmetics, a WoWkid , but i at the same time feel that your kind of GW2’ers are like major Apple fans.
It doesnt matter if Apple is right, or makes te right product or whatever, just aslong as its an Apple and it has their “vision” inbedded in the context.

On the otherhand, since you have grasped the “fun-factors” am having a bit trouble finding, please tell me what to do if am not an achivement-"w**** and gameplay ( allthough still good) not as exciting as it was a few months ago??

Leave, easiest option.
Do I see you crying around on the Bethesda forums for Skyrim being beaten after 20 hours and no reason to play since you beat the crepe out of anyone easily?
Guess what, any other MMO gets beaten as well, the difference is, the sub makes you think you should log back on to idle an hour somewhere and chat, then log off again and wait 6 months for a content update you’ll beat in 3 weeks.
Do you also go to work only on mondays, claiming you “beat” work and don’t need to come back for the rest of the week? You paid once, you got your share of fun, if it was work for you, you were too focused on some kind of “end game” WoW or its cheap clones may have induced into you, that’s your fault, your problem, don’t make up failures that are not there.
The only failures are the epic rank grind in sPvP and fractals with all they brought along to cater to an audience like you.

Kyosji.8961:

The only MMORPG I have ever played that had an end game was Star Wars Galaxies. That was only because your professions were actual professions. I remember having a doctors office by the tuskan fort. I would sell buffs and heal wounds, and made a good fortune on it. I was well known on the server for it as well, just like certain musicians and dancers were well known for what they did. I also remember that if you wanted the best weapons this side of the galaxy, you shopped at Froxx’s.

Every game I’ve ever played other than that was just a grind out, and the only ‘end-game’ were expansions.

Oh, such fond memories of SWG!! Among other details, I remember all the work and planning you had to do to prepare an expedition to the unknown (supplies, ammo…), the political and economical scope (run by the players themselves), things like you had to milk and grow your own mount (you could even prepare bizarre drinks and even posions using your mount’s milks)… Possibilities, possibilities, millions of possibilities in a real virtual world (until SEO screw it up to attract WoW kiddies…).

One of the things that SWG (and Ultima Online, and EVE, and AC…) showed us is that the only viable way for a MMORPG’s long term sustainability is:

- Give as many possibilities and freedom of choice to the players in the way they interact with the others (including open world PvP), with their own characters and with the world.

- Create a world which is lore-rich and with great capacity of interaction (personal history in a MMORPG is an obscenity as your character’s history should be his/her biography in the virtual world, in this sense a mechanic like a personal diary with all your adventures registered in it would be a win. (Instanced) Personal history only serves to cater to the carebears (who have a lot of responsibility in the dumbing down of the genre) and their logical evolution, the solo players (I insist in that some people should never have started playing MMORPGs in the first place, their impact has been atrocious)).

- Player run economy and politics.

- Give the outstanding players the possibility of acting like Dungeon Masters (design their own content).

- The content must be challenging in order to promote socialization and dependance among community members (people must need each other and, after all, one of the main reasons one comes back to a MMORPG is the community. On the other hand, catering to the “Han-Solos” is never gonna be a solid long-time investment).

Of course, I’m talking real MMORPG stuff in the sense of a real virtual world, and in order to make this work you need an imaginative playerbase with a penchant for real challenge and brain stimulation.

The (apparently commercially succesful) alternative is to create a dumb arcade under the MMORPG acronym where you mash the same rotas in scripted fights with slightly small variations (like following steps in a cooking recipee) in a pure hamster-wheel dance under the sensation of progression (your gear numbers increase just to go back to the position you were originally in, creating power creep in the process..). A lot of people find this model the paramount of strategy, I find it an insult to intelligence. By the way, WoW is been the only game that has succeded in this design model, right? (anyhow, they keep making clones of it…).

Well, as I said, I’ve taken my decission: themeparkers to your hamster wheel, bon voyage and look forward to not come across your breed never ever again. True RPs and sandboxers will have some joy in the near future (hope they won’t screw those promising games as SOE did though)

Amra.6028:

xardrion.4607:

Why do i go to work? For the paycheck ofc. We need rewards and not a game that stops a week after you hit 80.
Dont get me wrong , the mechanics are actually good, BUT you are more or less not going to play a singleplayer game forever, due to GAMEPLAY getting duller over time.
You may call everyone that wants goals apart from cosmetics, a WoWkid , but i at the same time feel that your kind of GW2’ers are like major Apple fans.
It doesnt matter if Apple is right, or makes te right product or whatever, just aslong as its an Apple and it has their “vision” inbedded in the context.

On the otherhand, since you have grasped the “fun-factors” am having a bit trouble finding, please tell me what to do if am not an achivement-"w**** and gameplay ( allthough still good) not as exciting as it was a few months ago??

Leave, easiest option.
Do I see you crying around on the Bethesda forums for Skyrim being beaten after 20 hours and no reason to play since you beat the crepe out of anyone easily?
Guess what, any other MMO gets beaten as well, the difference is, the sub makes you think you should log back on to idle an hour somewhere and chat, then log off again and wait 6 months for a content update you’ll beat in 3 weeks.
Do you also go to work only on mondays, claiming you “beat” work and don’t need to come back for the rest of the week? You paid once, you got your share of fun, if it was work for you, you were too focused on some kind of “end game” WoW or its cheap clones may have induced into you, that’s your fault, your problem, don’t make up failures that are not there.
The only failures are the epic rank grind in sPvP and fractals with all they brought along to cater to an audience like you.

Paid once? You are not making sense, you kinda need money to live. Wich if you take GW2 terms, you want people to get back to the game, not like you mentioned of work; “Do you also only work on mondays…..” Thats what gw2 is premoting.
“We have not really much to do, but the good thing is, you can comeback when you want to”. Play once , get good gear and cosmetics you like, then wait for next update…

If work was all about “fun” no one would do it, that how most people think, if it on the other hand is fun WHILE you get your reward, then thats the optimal workingplace for you.

On the otherhand, where you said that i should leave. Well not sure how healthy a game would be if a big chunk started leaving cause the game doesnt progress. And i know it’s possible for me to leave whenever i want due to the subs, but am not sure why Anet promotes their game like this, thus i state what is lacking.
Heck if they fixed content for the 80s i would maybe be considered a good mmorpg, cause to be fair, the base they are working on is pretty good.

So i have one question to you ( and all non-progression fanboys)
If progressive PvE content was added , how would it even bother you guys that dont care for numbers? Hey you can do what you want, why not add stuff to do for people that want constant progression?

no there are no raids, the pve here is incredibly simple and all dungeons are easy as hell which any 5 poorly geared scrubs can do. the only thing that’s a bit challenging are fractals above level 30. if you’re looking for complex and challenging pve i wouldn’t recommend gw2

xardrion.4607:

Hey you can do what you want, why not add stuff to do for people that want constant progression?

Why not play one of the 95% of all MMOs that have this? Why try to force yourself upon this game instead of just leaving to where they already got that? You also go to Burger King and have them introduce a McRib for you?

Well not sure how healthy a game would be if a big chunk started leaving cause the game doesnt progress.

Ask GW1 players.

xardrion.4607:

So i have one question to you ( and all non-progression fanboys)
If progressive PvE content was added , how would it even bother you guys that dont care for numbers? Hey you can do what you want, why not add stuff to do for people that want constant progression?

Let’s use GW1 as the horiz-progress example, and EQ1 as the vert-progress example.
(disclaimer: I have never played EQ1.)

Let’s say I bought GW:Prophecies and loved it. But for some reason, I didn’t like Factions or Nightfall. Then EOTN came out and I want to play it. In GW1, I can get EOTN and start playing right away. If I have friends who played through Factions and Nightfall, I can still play with them right away.

This is what is attractive about horiz-progress.

As a counter example, let’s say I played the original EQ1 and then skipped all the subsequent expansions. But now the most recent expansion has content I am interested in.
I won’t be able to play it straight away. I either have a lot of leveling/farming to do, or possibly I might even need to buy some of the in-between expansions to get to the right level or gear.
I won’t be able to play with my friends who have played the other EQ expansions. They have to wait for me to catch up, and if they keep playing, they might finish the new content before I even get there. If they have more time than me, I might never catch up.

The attractive thing about horiz-progress (or even zero-progress) for some people is that almost every part of the game is accessible to you, at all times. So you have the greatest choice and variety on what you can do.

GW2 adds a fair bit of vertical progression, which limits players. You can’t go into any higher level zones. But GW2 has several features which help a bit – downscaling keeps lower zones relevant, upscaling & max characters keeps WvW and PvP accessible to all, and upscaling in Fractals (and the soon-to-be-implemented changes to Fractal entry requirements) makes Fractals more accessible too.

But there’s already a proportion of players who think GW2 has too much vertical progression already. That’s why some are so vehemently against adding any more.

So this is why some people would be against vertical progression content. Because it’s additional content that they would be locked out of, when instead developer resources could be spent making content that everyone can access.

Plus, I don’t see any reason why I should have formed a character, leveled and ventured into dungeons, to see myself confronted with a sign telling me I’m nothing more than a host for my items, because without them I am worthless. I don’t want to do the same five dungeons hundreds of times to get items that allow me to go into some other dungeons, rinse, repeat.
Do whatever you want to do is the foundation of this game, not “do what a proportion of players that bought the wrong game wants you to do because their RL lacks opportunities so you can do what you wanted to do in the first place”.

@Hellkaiser

What would be a proper discussion point for people who want raids in this game, while it was clearly communicated that there won’t be raids… I only reacted to this. I’m not saying the game is perfect, it has it’s flaws.

Sky.7610:

Your endgame starts…now!

Do you really believe that?

Tiger.7506:

Sky.7610:

Your endgame starts…now!

Do you really believe that?

It depends what you mean by endgame. What is endgame in a multiplayer FPS? You know, those which are played for years, like CoD, BF or TF2, etc. It boggles me how people can play these games with simple mechanics for years, but when it comes to MMOs, you don’t consider leveling the actual game, only this magical ‘endgame’ counts.

finally … GW2 is an MMO or FPS multiplayer?

Tiger.7506:

finally … GW2 is an MMO or FPS multiplayer?

Where’s the difference in terms of spending your time?
Do you also complain once you’re a general or whatever in BF3 there’s nothing left to unlock, ergo no content?

I gotta add that while I agree with the fact that Guild Wars 2 offers a lot of different options for level 80 play. It still does not offer anything for the guild size group wanting a difficult experience. Open world is widely accepted as a zerg when there are more than 6 people offering very little challenge.

Also to respond to people who ask why dont you go back to wow. The reason I dont just go back to wow is that I feel this games other mechanics combined with some form of raiding would make this game perfect (tune the bosses in dungeons though, less hp more interesting skill usage)

Lastly raiding doesnt need to be the same old wow formula. GW2 can avoid stuff by not having a gear grind. Not gating content by having a 5 man version. Ideas could include instanced epic meta DE, a WvW like experience with npc’s, standard dungeon style raids or even an copy of an entire zone, up to 30 people can enter and the difficulty is dialled up to 10. Content would need to be instanced for two reasons, 1 to ensure the maximum possible challenge without bothering anyone and 2 to allow guilds to cordinate there raid nights.

Tiger and Amra. You guys asking that actually reinforces our point. If your comparing GW2 to an FPS in terms of what content it should have you doing it wrong. GW 2 is marketed as an MMORPG. This means long term goals. Also games like BF3 and CoD have taken mechanics from MMORPG’s like leveling to keep people playing longer.

Ubung.7423:

Tiger and Amra. You guys asking that actually reinforces our point. If your comparing GW2 to an FPS in terms of what content it should have you doing it wrong. GW 2 is marketed as an MMORPG. This means long term goals. Also games like BF3 and CoD have taken mechanics from MMORPG’s like leveling to keep people playing longer.

Actually one of the ways GW2 was marketed, was as an MMO for people who didn’t like traditional MMOs. So trying to say that it must have various features common to other MMOs is wrong.

Skip the labels and the pre-judging. GW2 is its own game. It sticks to some genre conventions, and it defies some others.

People who have been paying attention know that it’s a compromise between GW1’s horiz-progression model and the traditional EQ/WoW vertical progression model. Unfortunately people on both extremes are displeased, but it seems like there are moderate players out there who appreciate the hybrid. They want a little bit of vertical progression, but not too much.

Personally, I’d be quite interested in a completely non-progression MMO. Basically think of something like GW2, but you’re using PvP characters everywhere, starting at max level, with everything available to you. Just design your build and off you go.
Add a lot of sandbox and open world PvP, and we have a winner imo.

And we’ll still have people coming on to that game’s forums trying to claim that “an MMO must be like this or like that.”

So a game marketed as an MMORPG should offer a lot more for the same price than an FPS? Is this considered the normal point of view? You realize that you already get more and more content for GW2? We get DLC-like content for no additional price, while FPS games offer those for money. So you actually pay more money for an FPS nowadays than for GW2 if you don’t buy anything from the cash shop… It boggles me.

+1 to Rieselle. Don’t judge a game based on it’s label, judge it based on it’s price/worth ratio.

[/quote]

They want a little bit of vertical progression, but not too much.

[/quote]

That’s how I feel
Only horizontal progression = FPS ( MMO is something special,MMO is not a common game)
We need a little bit of vertical progression, but not too much. (the difference between medicine and poison is the dose)

Ubung.7423:

Tiger and Amra. You guys asking that actually reinforces our point. If your comparing GW2 to an FPS in terms of what content it should have you doing it wrong. GW 2 is marketed as an MMORPG. This means long term goals. Also games like BF3 and CoD have taken mechanics from MMORPG’s like leveling to keep people playing longer.

What justifies this opinion? MMOs have had subs, that’s what justified an expectation of permanently adding content which may or may not have progression attached.
Since you don’t pay subs, why expect more than you paid for?
Plus, why expect elements of other games here? You talk about advertising, it was advertised as different and it is, not all over, but it is to a certain degree, yet you want exactly what you had before. Why did you even buy it? Why not play a sub based MMO that forces you to grind dungeons in times you get bored here? Nothing’s keeping you.

Obly.9243:

So reading through the whole postings here, nice to see many different opinions, however I see a lot of similarities as well.

The game is 4.5 – 5 months old (since launch) now, and the END GAME is more then most MMO’s had ever before at this stage of the game’s age, some seem very good at ignoring this fact.

Secondly many compare End Game content to what they are USED TO, meaning, what we know from previous MMORPG’s, I would never compare GW2 to the old mmo’s, If you really look at the core of old MMO’s endgame it was but 1 thing, get the best gear and weapon. That was it PvE wise, then you went to the PvP places and showed it off, get killed, and become better as a player. Stand AFK in the main city doing trading and chatting all day long and WoW players would do raids to get more money to spend on……..what exactly? you had the endgame gear.

In GW2 end game is a entirely different concept in itself, so stop thinking about what you are used to and try and adapt your view to what is end game here, and it is most definately NOT just running Fractals all kitten day.

Because of the upscaling (in certain situations and places) and downscaling you can utilize all of Tyria as end game zones, this makes it a lot bigger then getting super gear and facerolling through dungeons.

A 100% this ^^

Ok first of all what i was saying did not take into account value for money. The game is excellent value for money for what it is. Secondly im not referring to vertical progression in any of my statements. Im merely proposing some form of raiding for the game. One of the major differences between an FPS and an MMORPG.

I also want to clarify that I think a lot of the game is great. I love dynamic events as a replacement for quests, i love not needing a tank and healer although it would be nice for the dungeons to have a lttle more structure and more interesting mechanics, i love the fact that I downscale to content making stuff ive done previously not obsolete.

Rieselle it was also marketed as agame for people who like MMO’s so it should feature something for them as well. To be honest i dont actually care about the vertical progression method (gear grind) i only want the dungeons bosses tuned up and raids.

Amra Im not expecting more than what I paid for. Im laying out feature the game lacks that I think could bring in more people and keep more people after 80. While box price is enough now Arenanet will eventually need cash shop sales to continue. Im not expecting elements of anything, im suggesting something i think would add to the game, im not raging.

I also dont want everything the same as wow, i really like most elements of GW 2. If they added raiding and tuned up the dugeon bosses id be a happy player. No need to go all passive aggressive and tell me where to go.

pencapchew.5432:

Obly.9243:

So reading through the whole postings here, nice to see many different opinions, however I see a lot of similarities as well.

The game is 4.5 – 5 months old (since launch) now, and the END GAME is more then most MMO’s had ever before at this stage of the game’s age, some seem very good at ignoring this fact.

Secondly many compare End Game content to what they are USED TO, meaning, what we know from previous MMORPG’s, I would never compare GW2 to the old mmo’s, If you really look at the core of old MMO’s endgame it was but 1 thing, get the best gear and weapon. That was it PvE wise, then you went to the PvP places and showed it off, get killed, and become better as a player. Stand AFK in the main city doing trading and chatting all day long and WoW players would do raids to get more money to spend on……..what exactly? you had the endgame gear.

In GW2 end game is a entirely different concept in itself, so stop thinking about what you are used to and try and adapt your view to what is end game here, and it is most definately NOT just running Fractals all kitten day.

Because of the upscaling (in certain situations and places) and downscaling you can utilize all of Tyria as end game zones, this makes it a lot bigger then getting super gear and facerolling through dungeons.

A 100% this ^^

That’s like saying you can still play with your baby toys when you’re 37. Sure, you can, but they lack challenge, interest and surprise.

“The whole game is end game” is not good design.

For me, WvW is endgame. You can in theory start playing WvW at level 1, but if you don’t have a full set of level 80 exotics you’re going to struggle to get kills.

Nothing beats the thrill of storming Stonemist with an organised group, fighting back the enemy hoarde and killing the keep lord. It took us over 3 hours this afternoon to take down Stonemist, a fact I only realised when I looked at the clock, becuase it felt like 15 minutes

Literally the most fun I’ve had in a video game ever.

You want your “raids”, well here they are. Except instead of a tedious boss with predictable attacks, the enemy is the other team. I find beating another person on the field of battle far more exciting than beating an AI.

PvE feels like training for the main event, WvW.

Ubung.7423:

I also dont want everything the same as wow, i really like most elements of GW 2. If they added raiding and tuned up the dugeon bosses id be a happy player. No need to go all passive aggressive and tell me where to go.

You may need to clearly suggest how you think raids should look, because “big bawz 10 spellz” doesn’t make it any more facerolly, that’s what mass fights are like in GW2 due to not standing around and having someone take all the damage.
Plus, would you think someone would raid if it wasn’t for better items? Haven’t seen people raid purely for the fun in years. There can be no incentive to go raiding if you get the same for less effort in fractals, but adding something raid-only will cause uproar, people already get kitten because they “have to” do things for their monthly they don’t agree with.

endgame = something that makes players come back every day for years.. and years..and years. ( after level 80 )

PVP and leveling alts for me, even in WoW as PvE content was bland as hell. Raids with friends only, but not because they were so nicely made or fun, just for the sake of doing it together.
So actually, WoW has no end game, amirite?

endgame = something that makes players come back every day for years.. and years..and years. ( after level 80 )

Ubung.7423:

I also dont want everything the same as wow, i really like most elements of GW 2. If they added raiding and tuned up the dugeon bosses id be a happy player. No need to go all passive aggressive and tell me where to go.

I don’t see why you want WoW-style raids in GW2. They aren’t fun, the only reason people do them in WoW is because of the gear treadmill, not because they’re enjoyable.

Dungeon bosses I do agree with you, they are too weak and predictable to offer any kind of meaningful challenge. I don’t see that making them bigger and throwing more people at them “fixes” that though.

The AI in this game is pretty much non-existant. A boss simply follows its programmed attack pattern, and mobs simply move towards you and attack, nothing more complex than that, ever. There is no challenge in beating AI opponents in this game whatsoever. I don’t see that changing if they made Raid bosses.

This is why WvW is the best part of the game IMO, all your enemies are human-controlled and unpredictable.

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

All I’m saying is this game right now isn’t even what we were being told prelaunch it would be.

It’s not even the horizontal progression open world focused game with dungeons as an afterthought and no invented “gap” between exotic and legendary armors.

You can defend honestly many things but you can’t say that the end game is what we were told it would be which definitely brought in many of the sales because people are tired of the same old paradigm of running dungeons for everything. whether they intended for FotM to take over the game or not the fact still remains that in all four months, we haven’t seen a single new meta event (the island doesn’t count because it was 1 time and is not repeatable even on dragon timers), which was supposed to be the main system of adding new content not only because of the severely reduce production time for metas as opposed to dungeons, but also because it was supposed to be the main focus for everything. Add to this the sheer limitations of drops even from dragon event chests and you’ve got a very big reason not to play anymore. No rewards for your time.

Other games did the limited content and loot limitation thing and instantly lost 60% of their playerbase and wondered where everyone went. It’s not too difficult to see.

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

It’s an MMORPG that allows players a very high degree of freedom in economy, combat, social structures – in other words, a sandbox. The endgame in EVE (or any sandbox game) is going from nobody to a leader of a powerful alliance, or a feared space pirate, or a CEO of a successful trading corporation. THAT is horizontal progression, and not whatever you call “horizontal progression” in GW2. You can’t be those things in this game – otherwise it would be “unfair” since nobody is allowed to get ahead in this game, vertically or horizontally.

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

It’s an MMORPG that allows players a very high degree of freedom in economy, combat, social structures – in other words, a sandbox. The endgame in EVE (or any sandbox game) is going from nobody to a leader of a powerful alliance, or a feared space pirate, or a CEO of a successful trading corporation. THAT is horizontal progression, and not whatever you call “horizontal progression” in GW2. You can’t be those things in this game – otherwise it would be “unfair” since nobody is allowed to get ahead in this game, vertically or horizontally.

That’s vertical progression. As there is no end to skill levels, it’s actually the worst kind of vertical progression ever – time spent means way more than personal skills.
Actually, becomg leader of a well-known guild, a feared commander on the battlefield or dungeon master are things you start while leveling in GW2, even though most of it will happen at 80 rather. I don’t see a difference, that’s exactly what was marketed.
What was not marketed was the fractals and their attempt on introducing a treadmill, we’ll see where that’s going.

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

It’s an MMORPG that allows players a very high degree of freedom in economy, combat, social structures – in other words, a sandbox. The endgame in EVE (or any sandbox game) is going from nobody to a leader of a powerful alliance, or a feared space pirate, or a CEO of a successful trading corporation. THAT is horizontal progression, and not whatever you call “horizontal progression” in GW2. You can’t be those things in this game – otherwise it would be “unfair” since nobody is allowed to get ahead in this game, vertically or horizontally.

That’s vertical progression. As there is no end to skill levels, it’s actually the worst kind of vertical progression ever – time spent means way more than personal skills.
Actually, becomg leader of a well-known guild, a feared commander on the battlefield or dungeon master are things you start while leveling in GW2, even though most of it will happen at 80 rather. I don’t see a difference, that’s exactly what was marketed.
What was not marketed was the fractals and their attempt on introducing a treadmill, we’ll see where that’s going.

No, thats horizontal progression – you get more powerful not through numbers, but through social interactions. Ok, you can become a leader of a “known” guild… so what? Guilds are basically chatrooms in this game. Feared commander? Nope, your name is hidden from opposing armies. Dungeon master? not sure what you’re even talking about here, being good at dungeons maybe? Thats not so tough, and nobody cares if you’re good at dungeons – in fact, you’re expected to be. Again, none of these things matter or offer any “impact on the game world” – something that was marketed, but failed spectacularly. Again, sandbox games allow players to hold real power in the game, and to change its course. GW2 doesn’t.

Amra.6028:

Ubung.7423:

I also dont want everything the same as wow, i really like most elements of GW 2. If they added raiding and tuned up the dugeon bosses id be a happy player. No need to go all passive aggressive and tell me where to go.

You may need to clearly suggest how you think raids should look, because “big bawz 10 spellz” doesn’t make it any more facerolly, that’s what mass fights are like in GW2 due to not standing around and having someone take all the damage.
Plus, would you think someone would raid if it wasn’t for better items? Haven’t seen people raid purely for the fun in years. There can be no incentive to go raiding if you get the same for less effort in fractals, but adding something raid-only will cause uproar, people already get kitten because they “have to” do things for their monthly they don’t agree with.

endgame = something that makes players come back every day for years.. and years..and years. ( after level 80 )

It doesnt need tanking, it just needs 10 / 20 (however many) people that need to coordinate. Thats why I think the bosses need redesigning because upping the hp and dmg of a boss doesnt scale well as eventually you get to the point where it has to one shot people to do the correct amount of damage. It needs to use interesting mechanics. For example the charge mechanic on Thaddius in Naxxramas ( http://www.wowwiki.com/Thaddius ) would be very cool and wouldnt require a tank.

For a lot of bosses in wow the auto attack damage that the tank took was alongside the damage from special attacks so can be seperated if you replace tank with dodge.

As for people who enjoy raiding. Well you might not like it and the people you know might not either. But not everyone is the same and I enjoy raiding for raiding and so do others. Finally raiding as i said shouldnt have the focus it does in wow. Arenanet can still keep pumping out other content just offer a raid once in a while, reuse content if need too just make it hard.

Chamone.6890:

Ubung.7423:

I also dont want everything the same as wow, i really like most elements of GW 2. If they added raiding and tuned up the dugeon bosses id be a happy player. No need to go all passive aggressive and tell me where to go.

I don’t see why you want WoW-style raids in GW2. They aren’t fun, the only reason people do them in WoW is because of the gear treadmill, not because they’re enjoyable.

Dungeon bosses I do agree with you, they are too weak and predictable to offer any kind of meaningful challenge. I don’t see that making them bigger and throwing more people at them “fixes” that though.

The AI in this game is pretty much non-existant. A boss simply follows its programmed attack pattern, and mobs simply move towards you and attack, nothing more complex than that, ever. There is no challenge in beating AI opponents in this game whatsoever. I don’t see that changing if they made Raid bosses.

This is why WvW is the best part of the game IMO, all your enemies are human-controlled and unpredictable.

Ok again like above, you may not understand why some people like raiding but they do. A lot of people do them for enjoyment. My whole guild for one.

I dont think throwing 10 people at a boss is gonna fix it. I think they need to work on bosses then add a 10 man mode once it works properly. The 10 mode isnt a fix its an optional gameplay preference. One that has enough fans to warrant taking a look at.

Boss skills are what keep raids fresh. A poison trail following the boss that drops goop that people have to avoid or receive loads of damage. A pair of bosses that must be killed simulataneously. A boss that drops environmental weapons that must be used to chip off his armour. This is what made raiding so much fun for me. The challenge of getting through the raid with my guild.

A good example from within the GW 2 game already is Ralena and Vassar from Ascalonian Catacombs. In my groups one player is asssigned to keep the attention of one of the bosses while we nuke the other one. Also with the rocks to keep them apart. Its a good use of boss skills while not requiring a full on tank. Another good boss is Kudu with the golems with different skills.

Finally the reason I want raiding in the game is because what we have now is epic and easy (dynamic events) or small scale and difficult (dungeons). I hope the game has room for something both epic (large scale) and difficult. I want to do what we already have in dungeons on a larger scale and a few tweaks as mentioned before.

My end game is logging in the 3 nights my guild has dungeon runs or FotM..anything else is just grinding.

Guys, games have successfully made crafting endgame content. It’s even been done with exploring. But this game just doesn’t offer any of it.

What you have to understand about this game, you can completely finish every map, have BiS gear, and the skins you want. At that point, what is the point of even logging on? You really don’t see a problem that your character can be “finished”?

The push to new gear skins is a good idea, but shouldn’t be the only goal. The life of these games depend on someone being able to constantly have long term goals to work towards, otherwise, you were better off just making a single player game.

tonyl.5063:

Guys, games have successfully made crafting endgame content. It’s even been done with exploring. But this game just doesn’t offer any of it.

What you have to understand about this game, you can completely finish every map, have BiS gear, and the skins you want. At that point, what is the point of even logging on? You really don’t see a problem that your character can be “finished”?

The push to new gear skins is a good idea, but shouldn’t be the only goal. The life of these games depend on someone being able to constantly have long term goals to work towards, otherwise, you were better off just making a single player game.

One of the better posts I have seen on this topic..

tonyl.5063:

Guys, games have successfully made crafting endgame content. It’s even been done with exploring. But this game just doesn’t offer any of it.

What you have to understand about this game, you can completely finish every map, have BiS gear, and the skins you want. At that point, what is the point of even logging on? You really don’t see a problem that your character can be “finished”?

The push to new gear skins is a good idea, but shouldn’t be the only goal. The life of these games depend on someone being able to constantly have long term goals to work towards, otherwise, you were better off just making a single player game.

No, that’s a losing strategy that requires constant new content, and thus constant revenue. Unless you want subscriptions or even more aggressive cash-shop pushing, it’s not sustainable. Sooner or later you’ll get all the stuff, and then you’ll demand even more stuff. And the people who have stepped away from the treadmill get further and further behind, making new content increasingly forbidding if they want to come back.

The only sustainable long-term gameplay is PvP or other competitive modes. (competitive PvE is possible too.)

Streetfighter 2 is still being played 15+ years later, and noone needs new shinies or patches to keep playing.

Street Fighter 2 isn’t an MMORPG. Every time you turn the game on, you’re also starting from the beginning. Basically when you turn on street fighter, you have a goal. Tell me, when you’re charater is “finished” why even bother logging on?

Is it sinking in yet? This is an MMORPG where you can actually run out of stuff to do.

It’s not a losing strategy, it’s actually the only smart way to do this. There’s a reason why literally every single other MMORPG out there has some form of “endgame”. If your character is finished, you stop logging on. So either there needs to be new content, or you need new content to bring the people into wanting new skins or to do new dungeons or w/e.

No matter what, new content is going to be needed. And where did I say treadmill? Where? Show me? You idiots are obsessing with these ideas. You don’t need gear, but you need goals. You need a reason to want to log onto this game 2 years from now. It doesn’t have to be gear, it can be all horizontal progression, long as there’s content there. Long as there’s a goal to work towards.

You people just don’t get it. Imagine Street Fighter, but when you kill the last boss, that’s it, you can’t start over again, you can’t go back and fight him again, you can’t redo that level… You’re just done. That’s what Guild Wars 2 is currently. There’s no replay value to the game, and there’s no long term goals. It’s literally multiplayer skyrim.

A lot of these feelings I think stem from burn out. I can totally understand that. Some players will log on for 8 hours or more a day. Burn through their levels, gear, events, pvp, etc. While there is nothing wrong with that play style and I have done the same with other games I do get burned out.

How do you know you are burned out? If you ever log on to the game and just sit there and think “I don’t even know what else I could go do right now” Or you log on and LFG for an hour and log off, that’s burn out. So you stop playing and go pick up another game or mmo.

IMO there is plenty to do at 80 in this game regardless if player think there should be Raids or even more content. The end game in GW2 is whatever you make it. There isnt any hand holding. I am not going to tell anyone what they should or should not do here but I understand the frustration. I also understand that being burned out on something can cause negativity towards that thing.

I got burned out of GW2. I’ve been playing it since closed public beta in March ( I think? It might of been April ) Around late Sept/Oct I put the game down. I came back fully about a week or so ago and I am having fun again. I stopped caring about the “Old MMO standards” and just played the game.

lacrimstein.5603:

No, thats horizontal progression – you get more powerful not through numbers, but through social interactions. Ok, you can become a leader of a “known” guild… so what? Guilds are basically chatrooms in this game. Feared commander? Nope, your name is hidden from opposing armies. Dungeon master? not sure what you’re even talking about here, being good at dungeons maybe? Thats not so tough, and nobody cares if you’re good at dungeons – in fact, you’re expected to be. Again, none of these things matter or offer any “impact on the game world” – something that was marketed, but failed spectacularly. Again, sandbox games allow players to hold real power in the game, and to change its course. GW2 doesn’t.

So you become a feared space pirate from the moment you start the game, because as a total lowbie that didn’t spend months on leveling skills, you’ll just blast anyone out of space, right?
Plus, I don’t see GW2 being marketed as a sandbox anywhere, It#s about horizontal progression and that’s what you got, not running dungeons ABC doesn’t keep you from running Dungeons EFG, you don’t need to grind 6 months of gear to compete in PVP. The only vertical progression is the leveling, which is made easy, fast and not solely in the same direction, thus offering replay value.
The whole idea of making “end game” by not having an end to silly evergrowing numbers is plain stupid, as it puts time invested above anything else in a game.

tonyl.5063:

Street Fighter 2 isn’t an MMORPG. Every time you turn the game on, you’re also starting from the beginning. Basically when you turn on street fighter, you have a goal. Tell me, when you’re charater is “finished” why even bother logging on?

Is it sinking in yet? This is an MMORPG where you can actually run out of stuff to do.

It’s not a losing strategy, it’s actually the only smart way to do this. There’s a reason why literally every single other MMORPG out there has some form of “endgame”. If your character is finished, you stop logging on. So either there needs to be new content, or you need new content to bring the people into wanting new skins or to do new dungeons or w/e.

No matter what, new content is going to be needed. And where did I say treadmill? Where? Show me? You idiots are obsessing with these ideas. You don’t need gear, but you need goals. You need a reason to want to log onto this game 2 years from now. It doesn’t have to be gear, it can be all horizontal progression, long as there’s content there. Long as there’s a goal to work towards.

You people just don’t get it. Imagine Street Fighter, but when you kill the last boss, that’s it, you can’t start over again, you can’t go back and fight him again, you can’t redo that level… You’re just done. That’s what Guild Wars 2 is currently. There’s no replay value to the game, and there’s no long term goals. It’s literally multiplayer skyrim.

First of all, SF2 survived for 15+ years because of competitive play. So we can say legitimately that PvP can be the one and only endgame for GW2. Of course, that would annoy a lot of people.

So let’s put that aside and talk about Tetris instead, which is singleplayer and yet is still being played for 20+ years.

The goal for all of these games is self-improvement of your player skill. You play Tetris to waste some time and have some fun, but if there is a goal, if there is a thing that rewards you and you work towards, it’s getting better at the game. It’s not steadily working towards a goal that you will eventually reach with enough time/grind.

You don’t need to add new maps to Tetris, or new blocks every 10 levels, or any other new content. You just need a way to measure player skill using the existing content. (in tetris, it gets faster.)

This is the only sustainable way to truly repeatable gameplay.

Does GW2 have this? Not at the moment. But adding more items, more levels, more zones, more “goals” will never get you repeatable gameplay. Sooner or later, you will get all the goals, and then, to quote you, “what is the point of logging on?”.

GW2 needs more ways to test and measure player skill using the existing content. Hard mode, Rankings for dungeons, being able to challenge yourself with additional downscaling, etc. And the gameplay needs to be fun enough and skill-based enough to make this meaningful.

This is how you get players to play for 15+ years, without new content, without new “goals”, without patches or changes. Make the game fun, and make the game require, measure and acknowlege player skill.

You made an interesting point when you said “SF2 starts you from scratch every time you start a game.” Because that’s exactly what “Endgame” is in an MMO – you have everything already, your character is “complete.”

Like an RTS, you have a singleplayer campaign that gradually adds new units, until by the end you have all the units. In an RTS, that’s “just the beginning” – you’re finally playing the proper game, with all the units. The campaign was just an extended tutorial mode. Now you play skirmish vs. harder and harder AI, or go online and play multiplayer.

So the proper solution to “endgame” in MMO’s is not extending the “tutorial mode” ie. the period where your character is incomplete, by adding more stuff to acquire. It’s to make lots of meaningful content for characters that are complete and static. When you have everything and every item is BiS, “what is the point of logging on?” – The point is, NOW you get to play the REAL game.

Absolutely agree with you mate.

Endgame = running around the world wondering where all the people have gone.

Rieselle.5079:

tonyl.5063:

Street Fighter 2 isn’t an MMORPG. Every time you turn the game on, you’re also starting from the beginning. Basically when you turn on street fighter, you have a goal. Tell me, when you’re charater is “finished” why even bother logging on?

Is it sinking in yet? This is an MMORPG where you can actually run out of stuff to do.

It’s not a losing strategy, it’s actually the only smart way to do this. There’s a reason why literally every single other MMORPG out there has some form of “endgame”. If your character is finished, you stop logging on. So either there needs to be new content, or you need new content to bring the people into wanting new skins or to do new dungeons or w/e.

No matter what, new content is going to be needed. And where did I say treadmill? Where? Show me? You idiots are obsessing with these ideas. You don’t need gear, but you need goals. You need a reason to want to log onto this game 2 years from now. It doesn’t have to be gear, it can be all horizontal progression, long as there’s content there. Long as there’s a goal to work towards.

You people just don’t get it. Imagine Street Fighter, but when you kill the last boss, that’s it, you can’t start over again, you can’t go back and fight him again, you can’t redo that level… You’re just done. That’s what Guild Wars 2 is currently. There’s no replay value to the game, and there’s no long term goals. It’s literally multiplayer skyrim.

First of all, SF2 survived for 15+ years because of competitive play. So we can say legitimately that PvP can be the one and only endgame for GW2. Of course, that would annoy a lot of people.

So let’s put that aside and talk about Tetris instead, which is singleplayer and yet is still being played for 20+ years.

The goal for all of these games is self-improvement of your player skill. You play Tetris to waste some time and have some fun, but if there is a goal, if there is a thing that rewards you and you work towards, it’s getting better at the game. It’s not steadily working towards a goal that you will eventually reach with enough time/grind.

You don’t need to add new maps to Tetris, or new blocks every 10 levels, or any other new content. You just need a way to measure player skill using the existing content. (in tetris, it gets faster.)

This is the only sustainable way to truly repeatable gameplay.

Does GW2 have this? Not at the moment. But adding more items, more levels, more zones, more “goals” will never get you repeatable gameplay. Sooner or later, you will get all the goals, and then, to quote you, “what is the point of logging on?”.

GW2 needs more ways to test and measure player skill using the existing content. Hard mode, Rankings for dungeons, being able to challenge yourself with additional downscaling, etc. And the gameplay needs to be fun enough and skill-based enough to make this meaningful.

This is how you get players to play for 15+ years, without new content, without new “goals”, without patches or changes. Make the game fun, and make the game require, measure and acknowlege player skill.

You made an interesting point when you said “SF2 starts you from scratch every time you start a game.” Because that’s exactly what “Endgame” is in an MMO – you have everything already, your character is “complete.”

Like an RTS, you have a singleplayer campaign that gradually adds new units, until by the end you have all the units. In an RTS, that’s “just the beginning” – you’re finally playing the proper game, with all the units. The campaign was just an extended tutorial mode. Now you play skirmish vs. harder and harder AI, or go online and play multiplayer.

So the proper solution to “endgame” in MMO’s is not extending the “tutorial mode” ie. the period where your character is incomplete, by adding more stuff to acquire. It’s to make lots of meaningful content for characters that are complete and static. When you have everything and every item is BiS, “what is the point of logging on?” – The point is, NOW you get to play the REAL game.

Now that’s a nice way of putting it. Add the usual content updates for variety and things, and no one needs “harder dungeons that require better gears”. Too bad ANet won’t do it like that, I guess. Let’s see how they attempt to shovel content without stable revenue.

Zeldain.5710:

Braggo.7819:

Although i have had GW2 since the first beta i haven’t played much as i have a WoW subscription. Im looking to cancel WoW and using GW2 as my MMO and playing alot of other single player games.

What is the end game like here? from what i can see it is mainly PvP based as i havent heard of raids other than the world boss style of things.

Do you Queue for instances or is it finding your own group? as finding your own group sounds difficult.

Is the “lack of players” i heard about troubling or just people talking crap?

Finally i am mainly a pve player so does this game suit me or do i need to be a pvper?

sorry the the wall of text and questions.

You will not find any form of satisfying PvE endgame here. What you do at level one is waht you do at level 80. The story doesn’t get better, the gear doens’t get better.

If you enjoy WoW, you will not enjoy his game. It delivers none of the satisfaction and fun.

You’re dead wrong. I enjoy WoW, but I enjoy GW2 much more. The combat is significantly more entertaining and while there is a lack of large raiding content, that is easily overlooked because of the entertainment value of fighting itself.

I would enjoy GW2 more if the dungeon fights / mobs / events / whatever you want to call them would not be so… garbage (most of them unfortunately).

Only read through the first few replies before posting this so maybe others have mentioned all this;

Finding groups isn’t hard. you have three basic options: Go to Lion’s arch and start a group with a specific task or join one. Be in a decent sized guild and do the same, or go to gw2lfg.com for dungeon groups (pugs: pick up groups).

There are raids of a sort but other than world bosses which only a few are even done any more, it revolves around world vs world.

A lot of wvw is made up of random zergs following commanders (since you can see their tag on the map, they’re easy to follow). This is less tactical and more about power in numbers. On the other hand, some guilds/alliances use a “raid” style of play when it comes to wvw, assigning tasks to specific commanders, groups, or multiple groups.

An example of this is what happened last night on my server. A good portion of my guild kept a vast zerg busy (feigning an attack on a tower) away from our goal while another guild/group attacked that goal after a short delay (an enemy garrison). Meanwhile three seperate groups of players worked on supply (guarding caravans and getting them to keeps/towers faster), flipping supply camps.

outside of wvw/pvp, the end game content for me consists of mainly dungeons to get some armor skins / materials to save for my eventual legendary weapon / gold – plus doing fractals to gear 3 slots on each of my level 80 characters plus weapon skins / materials / gold – to see how far I can advance, and to have a stockpile of resources and ability to get further/more if/when other ascended gear comes along associated with fractals.

I also like to try to get achievements, so I’ve done all the jumping puzzles, crafting professions, and I’m working on “slayer”, “explorer”, etc in PVE plus achievements/titles in pvp/wvw.

Sometimes the end game content for me is just simply helping guild mates or new players or just BSing with people.

By many “Endgame” is usually misunderstood for “raiding” and similar content, which it doesn’t have to be. End game is simply something to keep players occupied once they have completed basic goals of the game such as: hitting level cap, geared up in exotic, 100% map completion. After that GW2 doesn’t have anything to keep you occupied unless you kinda “use your imagination” and if you are ok with the rewards you reap from activities in the game such as dungeons, pvp or wvw.

The current Legendary “grind” is just not worth it. Spending hundreds of hours and effort (or no effort if all you do is play the TP), is simply not worth many people’s time. Legendary goal is only for the most persistent and it’s not even about skill or accomplishment it’s just “how much time would you be willing to spend into creating something with a particle effect”.

I still don’t get what is the point of WvW unless it’s playing for the sake of playing it. I’m sure the WvW gets more exciting if you are in a WvW focused guild that invests their resources on keeps and strategy. I am not in such a guild so i can’t say much, but as a PVE player i don’t really see the point of me participating in WvW unless i’m in a zerg.

sPVP is brilliant for a casual PVPer. You log in, go to heart of the mists, you queue into a match, you spam your skills a little, first on the blue then you get transferred to the red side, you get glory, there are no winners or losers since whatever you do you get glory, and that’s all that matters in the end. I have never player tournaments but i don’t really see them appealing.

Dungeons are a pain VS the rewards they give VS player attitudes. Unless you are willing to participate in the newest glitch or exploit the community discovered, be ready to get shunned for willing to clear a dungeon the way it was meant to be. Nope, skip a lot of trash, skip mini bosses, glitch the encounter to win, get your tokens, do it all over again. Or you get do it normally and waste everyone’s time.

You haven’t seen all the dynamic events in the game! Is what people say, but why should you, when essentially they are all the same just reskinned. Kill things until bar depletes, defend this while bar fills, escort this guy across the map. Which is ok, until we get constantly reminded that this is somehow revolutionary.

Open world Dragons. We have an amazing time first 2-3 times. After that, oh look another chest with blues and maybe a green. Oh look, someone just linked a Dusk from their inventory to make us think he got a precursor from the chest. How clever. Your guildie confirmed it? Well now it must be true.

Crafting? Useless. Oh there is a awesome cost efficient way to lvl my crafting on Reddit? Hm, the mats’ prices just skyrocketed. Nevermind.

Mystic toilet? How i love flushing my work and effort into it. But hey, the game is better because all that gold got out of the economy. That should make you happy, knowing you contributed to the well being of the economy.

There is nothing to keep you playing except taking pretty screenshots and posting threads on forums to share your awe on how pretty GW2 is, and bathe in the people who agree with you sharing their own breathtaking scenery pictures. And quaggans. Everyone loves quaggans.

GW2 doesn’t need raiding or more dungeons to run. Other games do this for years and they do it much better. It is still very young, and i’m sure that all of the (negative) feedback ArenaNet is getting, they will counter it and make something amazing in the next 2 years. There is no subscription fee, and even if there was i’d just resub when there is new content to play.
For now all i can tell all of my friends is that they should def buy the game, play it until they reach their own goals, and then just drop it and do something else. Gw2 has the best leveling experience i had (but i played during launch so there were a lot of people to tackle DEs with, i don’t know how it is now with empty areas), and i would recommend anyone to play it, but not expect any end game and not to get too invested. Just have fun while it lasts.

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

PvP.

EVE gameplay isn’t my cup of tea either but saying its not a sandbox = lol.

Games like SB and UO were also successful sandboxes for their time.

Last I checked if you went AFK for months in EVE your skills would actually go down.

Even though I don’t particularly like EVE, the designers know what they want to do with the game and it has clear direction. It has a clear target audience (people who like sandbox PvP MMO and don’t mind sci fi spreadsheets)

I can’t say the same for this game, it needs direction. If they want to push it as an E-sport, why is SPvP so barebones and why do half the classes have at least 3 broken traits/abilities, where are my spectators, SPvP isn’t fun to play let alone watch.

If they want it to be a server competitive WvW game why is it a PvD zerg fest with no reward for yourself, your guild or your server, where are the leaderboards?

If they want it to be a PvE game, why is the group coordination so shallow, where is the content, why are classes horrendously balanced for PvE, where is the loot, why are the fights so repetitive, honestly I’m not sure what I prefer, “progression” content or grinding fractals, both are bad in my eyes but I’m not much of a PvEer.

This is a great exploration game and was worth my $60, but I’m not going to pretend it excels at anything in the MMO market.