Guild Wars 2

Braggo.7819:

this doesnt seem very good then, looks like i wasted £50

Why not try playing it? It has no Sub, you will likely get alot of enjoyment in the journey to Level 80. Also, WvW is some of the most fun PVP i’ve ever played.

Conwolv.4329:

We’re looking for solutions, but you (Sylv) only seem to want to keep those players from enjoying the same game you enjoy.

It won’t be the same game.

Anyway, it’s okay for games to be different from each other. ANet has made some very deliberate choices because it wanted to create a different kind of game, with a different atmosphere and different priorities. That’s why many of us play GW and GW2.

You guys knew that there would be no raids way before launch, but here you are, disappointed that the game that said it did not want to add raids still doesn’t have raids.

I think that you should have bought GW2 on its own merits, instead of criticising those who did and would prefer that it stays that way. That makes me even less inclined to agree with you, and trying to guilt trip me about it even moreso.

Zeldain.5710:

If they provided 20 man “instanced” versions of world events, with loot specific to it (no better mind you, simply “Claw of the Shatterer” style loot) why does it matter? You can still see the content, but if you want to field a team to take on the tougher version and get more exclusive rewards, you’d be able to .

Posts like this further make me hope that ANet sticks to its guns and are why I will always oppose instanced raids.

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

We’re looking for solutions, but you (Sylv) only seem to want to keep those players from enjoying the same game you enjoy.

It won’t be the same game.

Anyway, it’s okay for games to be different from each other. ANet has made some very deliberate choices because it wanted to create a different kind of game, with a different atmosphere and different priorities. That’s why many of us play GW and GW2.

You guys knew that there would be no raids way before launch, but here you are, disappointed that the game that said it did not want to add raids still doesn’t have raids.

I think that you should have bought GW2 on its own merits, instead of criticising those who did and would prefer that it stays that way. That makes me even less inclined to agree with you, and trying to guilt trip me about it even moreso.

I bought the game on its merits. I spent a lot of time on the GW 2 guru forums and it was understood that the elite dynamic events would be the alternative for raiders coming to GW2. It didnt work out like that so now I come on the forums and tell Anet this.

Sylv,

By your logic, including any new content that includes new types of gameplay (the MOBA for example from Hallow’s Eve) makes this a different game.

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

And there’s nothing wrong with asking for new features. Ones that help support the game further by bringing in new players and hopefully not affecting the gameplay of existing playing who aren’t interested in that playstyle.

If it doesn’t affect your gameplay or your ability to get the same items outside of raiding, what does it matter to you?

At this point, it almost seems like you’re trolling. I don’t think you are, but the idea that you don’t like something and are unwilling to find ways to include it without affecting you in any way seems illogical unless by design.

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anyhow, you’ve said your piece on it. Why don’t we allow the conversation to move on and see if others can come up with solutions and ideas. Unless you have something new to add?

I’m going to bed, but I’m not sure why folks couldn’t’ve conversed as they saw fit anyway. Good afternoon!

Sylv.5324:

Zeldain.5710:

If they provided 20 man “instanced” versions of world events, with loot specific to it (no better mind you, simply “Claw of the Shatterer” style loot) why does it matter? You can still see the content, but if you want to field a team to take on the tougher version and get more exclusive rewards, you’d be able to .

Posts like this further make me hope that ANet sticks to its guns and are why I will always oppose instanced raids.

More exclusive rewards for a more difficult effort… seems to make sense to me.

Zeldain, I’m OK with not having anything being exclusive. Maybe greater progress towards a reward for harder content. Like getting more tokens towards a dungeon set than an easier 5 man version of that dungeon.

There’s lots of ways of doing this without alienating other players.

I personally like the idea of “world boss encounters” but instanced and tuned for high difficulty for a specific group size of equal to or greater than 20. I had discussed this at length on some pre-release fan site forum, and I think the idea is pretty solid.

1) It doesn’t exclude any players from seeing content – they can do the open world zerg version that we have now
2) It provides a new game mode that allows team-minded PvE guilds activities and a progression path
3) It provides a level of mastery to players who are done with the single player game, and are ready to step up to true team play

Conwolv.4329:

Zeldain, I’m OK with not having anything being exclusive. Maybe greater progress towards a reward for harder content. Like getting more tokens towards a dungeon set than an easier 5 man version of that dungeon.

There’s lots of ways of doing this without alienating other players.

By exclusive, I don’t think it has to be entire sets of gear or things like that. But simply (to use my tired example) “The Claw of The Shatterer” as a dagger skin drop and maybe some achievements… that sort of thing.

Sure, as long as the items are also available by some means outside of raiding as well. Maybe not as easy to get as they are in the raid, but by some means (not by being BoE and sold by raiders).

I want no one to feel like they have to raid to get specific items in game. Even if they’re skins.

End game starts at level 1!

In other words:

There is no end game content.

(Unless you love grinding fotm of course.)

Conwolv.4329:

You’d think that making the game more inclusive would be something that everyone wants. More players = more success for ArenaNet.

Saying “We want everyone to play our game! But not you people. You can keep playing WoW instead” seem counterintuative.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but it’s the truth. ArenaNet is not going to please everyone. No game, from any designer, is ever going to please everyone. Trying to do so ends, at best, with something that is “meh” to everyone and “great” to no one.

There are MMOs with great raids out there. There are few MMOs with good content other than raids out there. GW2 is the latter. Considering how many games there are like the former, I would rather have ArenaNet resources invested in what GW2 does well than in trying to copy features from other games that, well, are available in other games.

end game is spvp and wvw

Conwolv.4329:

Sure, as long as the items are also available by some means outside of raiding as well. Maybe not as easy to get as they are in the raid, but by some means (not by being BoE and sold by raiders).

I want no one to feel like they have to raid to get specific items in game. Even if they’re skins.

I think there should absolutely be content-specific items sprinkled throughout the game, and if you want those items, yhou will have to do that specifci content. Even if that means raiding, crafting, sPvP or anything else you don’t “prefer”. If it’s an object you desire, you have to go a bit out of your way.

I wouldn’t think the Claw of the Shatterer would be avilable anywhere but… from defeating the Shatterer in instanced mode, for example.

Ubung.7423:

Sylv.5324:

Ubung.7423:

Yup agree to disagree. I just wonder why you think Anet who managed to evolve pretty much everything else in the genre would screw up raids so badly.

My problem isn’t with ANet.

Well since you dont want to share exactly why it is you dont want raiding then I cant tell you a way to make it not effect you. So far the only one that cant be fully argued is dev time taken which tbh is up to Anet to decide whats best. Were just requesting something, they decide whether what were asking for is valid.

Traditional raiding wouldnt work ((mostly do to the combat system)) but I for one am all for some sort of large guild/team Tower attack/defend instance setting with waves of enimies that get harder in difaculty with each wave.

the only thing that make’s raids suck in other MMO is its the only way to get the best gear and not everyone always gets rewarded at the end….. GW2 dosnt have to do that

this really isnt about end game the game has planty of end game for small groups, this is about Big(ish) Guild ((such as mine)) content. we want somthing that more than just five at a time can do together. other than zerging area’s of orr or for kitten loot

I think Traditional raiding could work. Bosses in dungeons work fine with the mechanics for the most part. Number of players wouldn’t change that much.

The game design could easily support this type of content. While I know that Anet doesn’t have that now and their thoughts are that it’s not necessary, the point of these types of threads is to try to appeal to the Devs to reconsider it if it can be done without hurting the overall game for non-raiders. And I think it could be done easily.

The idea that "end game starts at level 1" is fine and dandy for some, but it’s obvious that the idea fails to keep most endgame players from other MMOs. If GW2 is to be the most successful it can be, it needs to continue to attract new players to the game. It’s done a very good job in other elements, but ignoring this one area is a mistake in the long run. One that I hope that Anet recognizes.

So far they’ve been good at seeing their deficiencies and making changes to the game to accommodate them.

The reason why they didn’t want raids in game originally was because they didn’t want a gear treadmill. Easy fix, make raids content driven instead of gear driven like the rest of the game. You don’t get anything better for raiding than you do for crafting.

Raids are grindy. They have been in other games. But does that mean it has to be in ours? Not at all. And even if they are, fractals are more of a grind than Raids are in most games.

Fractals could be an excellent design for raids as well. A group of 10 (or 20) players progressing through continuously harder content to see how far they can progress their group? Sounds like a perfect design for a raid.

I still believe that major story elements shouldn’t be exclusive to raids. Fighting Jormag in the north? Massive world event. Fighting one of his major allies? Could be a dungeon that could be set to 5/10/20 players depending on the groups.

Lots of ways to do this type of content while keeping it available to non raid groups as well, without the grind and focused on content. All the things that ArenaNet wants for the rest of the game. Lots of fun (most importantly) for those of us who enjoy that type of content from other games and want it in GW2.

I have a solution to all of our problems. It would appear that all end-game – well, the ENTIRE GAME, is built on RNG. Now, if we were to pray to the RNG gods, I’m sure they would grant our petitions and smite our oppressors. So, my advice to you all is to recite this prayer and hope for the best:

Let us bow our heads.

Our father, who art in random, only ANet knows his name, thy dungeons come, our Fractals run, in WvWvW, as it is in End-Game.

Give us this day, our Badges of Honor & forgive us our rolls, as we forgive those who roll against us.

Lead us not to a failed mystic forge, but deliver us when we crit, for thine is the true boss, the judgement of our ascended gear, forever and ever…amen.

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anet also said there would be no scaling with gear… then pop out comes fractals with ascended. Its highly likely that we could see raid style content in the future because to be frank it just doesn’t offer large groups anything to do… and no events dont count when an event can be zerged down into easy mode and make the accomplishment of beating it nothing more then oh ya I helped 40 people beat on a dragon for some loots was easy mode…. And you know its true lol.

Just because Anet said something in the past does not mean it will hold true for the entire games future.

Namu.5712:

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anet also said there would be no scaling with gear… then pop out comes fractals with ascended. Its highly likely that we could see raid style content in the future because to be frank it just doesn’t offer large groups anything to do… and no events dont count when an event can be zerged down into easy mode and make the accomplishment of beating it nothing more then oh ya I helped 40 people beat on a dragon for some loots was easy mode…. And you know its true lol.

Just because Anet said something in the past does not mean it will hold true for the entire games future.

Agreed. ANet has a history of lying to the playerbase. Why should anything they say hold any water????

Sylv.5324:

Zeldain.5710:

If they provided 20 man “instanced” versions of world events, with loot specific to it (no better mind you, simply “Claw of the Shatterer” style loot) why does it matter? You can still see the content, but if you want to field a team to take on the tougher version and get more exclusive rewards, you’d be able to .

Posts like this further make me hope that ANet sticks to its guns and are why I will always oppose instanced raids.

But they already went against that reasoning with ascended gear. Because currently thats only obtained from doing fractals and grinding like crazy. yet you stand by that flawed arguement and logic?

mavet.3047:

Namu.5712:

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anet also said there would be no scaling with gear… then pop out comes fractals with ascended. Its highly likely that we could see raid style content in the future because to be frank it just doesn’t offer large groups anything to do… and no events dont count when an event can be zerged down into easy mode and make the accomplishment of beating it nothing more then oh ya I helped 40 people beat on a dragon for some loots was easy mode…. And you know its true lol.

Just because Anet said something in the past does not mean it will hold true for the entire games future.

Agreed. ANet has a history of lying to the playerbase. Why should anything they say hold any water????

Not this again.

It is still the case that ANet has neaver said that there would be no scaling with gear. It’s quite the opposite. They said there would be scaling with a low power curve. I have yet to see a place where they lied, unless you willingly choose to interpret the facts that they are lying and lying again.

They already explained why Ascended was released when it was, in the way it was, and have already stated it was a mistake.

Links:
Vertical Progression Promise
Vertical Progression Promise 2
AMA

JaironKalach.4938:

mavet.3047:

Namu.5712:

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anet also said there would be no scaling with gear… then pop out comes fractals with ascended. Its highly likely that we could see raid style content in the future because to be frank it just doesn’t offer large groups anything to do… and no events dont count when an event can be zerged down into easy mode and make the accomplishment of beating it nothing more then oh ya I helped 40 people beat on a dragon for some loots was easy mode…. And you know its true lol.

Just because Anet said something in the past does not mean it will hold true for the entire games future.

Agreed. ANet has a history of lying to the playerbase. Why should anything they say hold any water????

Not this again.

It is still the case that ANet has neaver said that there would be no scaling with gear. It’s quite the opposite. They said there would be scaling with a low power curve. I have yet to see a place where they lied, unless you willingly choose to interpret the facts that they are lying and lying again.

They already explained why Ascended was released when it was, in the way it was, and have already stated it was a mistake.

Links:
Vertical Progression Promise
Vertical Progression Promise 2
AMA

You DO REALIZE that “lying” is consciously hiding the truth from others – correct? They’ve done this many times with their “stealthed” nerfs to things in game. Open world drops ring any bells???

JaironKalach.4938:

mavet.3047:

Namu.5712:

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Your logic simply doesn’t hold water. You just don’t want it, despite anyone trying to resolve your issues with it.

I don’t want it for the reasons that ANet’s said that they don’t want it, and I like ANet’s reasons more.

Also, I can acknowledge your points but still disagree, and the fact that you’re getting personal confirms to me that my judgment is correct.

Anet also said there would be no scaling with gear… then pop out comes fractals with ascended. Its highly likely that we could see raid style content in the future because to be frank it just doesn’t offer large groups anything to do… and no events dont count when an event can be zerged down into easy mode and make the accomplishment of beating it nothing more then oh ya I helped 40 people beat on a dragon for some loots was easy mode…. And you know its true lol.

Just because Anet said something in the past does not mean it will hold true for the entire games future.

Agreed. ANet has a history of lying to the playerbase. Why should anything they say hold any water????

Not this again.

It is still the case that ANet has neaver said that there would be no scaling with gear. It’s quite the opposite. They said there would be scaling with a low power curve. I have yet to see a place where they lied, unless you willingly choose to interpret the facts that they are lying and lying again.

They already explained why Ascended was released when it was, in the way it was, and have already stated it was a mistake.

Links:
Vertical Progression Promise
Vertical Progression Promise 2
AMA

I was merely stating that the person I was replying to was incorrect in their logic that if they add raids it makes content specific loot when the game is already like that currently. Fractals + ascended being the prime example.

mavet.3047:

You DO REALIZE that “lying” is consciously hiding the truth from others – correct? They’ve done this many times with their “stealthed” nerfs to things in game. Open world drops ring any bells???

I’d quibble on terms between “lying” and “deception” there, actually, but the moral issue is the same. Except that I understand that at times companies need to not say things for very valid reasons. I also believe, given the occasional posts of people saying “Hey wait, it’s not nerfed for me anymore,” that we don’t know what is going in that situation, including whether it was intentional or not. But I don’t truly expect to convince you otherwise. I know your mind is made up.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Ubung.7423:

Sylv.5324:

Ubung.7423:

Yup agree to disagree. I just wonder why you think Anet who managed to evolve pretty much everything else in the genre would screw up raids so badly.

My problem isn’t with ANet.

Well since you dont want to share exactly why it is you dont want raiding then I cant tell you a way to make it not effect you. So far the only one that cant be fully argued is dev time taken which tbh is up to Anet to decide whats best. Were just requesting something, they decide whether what were asking for is valid.

Traditional raiding wouldnt work ((mostly do to the combat system)) but I for one am all for some sort of large guild/team Tower attack/defend instance setting with waves of enimies that get harder in difaculty with each wave.

the only thing that make’s raids suck in other MMO is its the only way to get the best gear and not everyone always gets rewarded at the end….. GW2 dosnt have to do that

I think traditional raiding parties could work in this game. The bosses that wouldnt be great for it need tuning for 5 man anyway. Like the last boss of Sorrows Furnace story which offers a nice example of a raid boss in 5 man mode.

They could also go the way of instanced elite DE’s. Its very possible they could scale these for specific group sizes and could then concentrate on making them hard instead of just accessible.

With this addition GW 2 would offer something for every type of mmo player out there.

Look, an MMO is an ever evolving game. Especially GW2. It’s designed to always be changing in some form or another. Just because Anet may not have liked the idea at launch, doesn’t mean they cant add it later if they find a way to do it that fits their design philosophy.

Adding these elements to the game can be beneficial to the community and the game as a whole if done correctly. Being hateful and calling out Anet as liars and deceitful when they’ve been nothing but direct and forthcoming with us about issues and concerns as any devs can be is just silly.

So please stop with the petty comments. If you don’t have something worth adding to the conversation, please move on and let those of us who want to see positive change discuss our ideas.