Guild Wars 2

I was in the dredge hills, in fact I’m any where, and the enemies just stand there and scratch them selves. even the juton they just stand around. The sons of savior (what ever its called) also just stand their.

In GW1 enemies use to roam in pacts and it use to be some what of challenge if you got mobs that intersected. even in dungeons they roamed. I feel like im in WOW >.> the reason I say that is because enemies just stand around in that game.

is there a reason for this? I do see some enemies patrol but it’s not like GW1

I still remember this dwarf patrol in Lornar’s Pass.
If you werent carefull, they were allways on top of you in the wrong place at the wrong time

edit:
@vayne
in gw1 enemies could not patrol?
I agree they were set patrol route’s, but there were lots of patrols in gw1

I hope anet add more patrols and more organic behaviour to npcs.

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

Malediktus.9250:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

All games are “scripted events here and there”…

In some ways, i agree. But what did you expect? Skynet like AI? Learning NPCs?

In the first Warhammer MMO (the one that died during the development, not the one that died after release), they wanted to have single orcs “band” together when their paths crossed. This would continue until the band was so large it constituted a “horde”, at which point they would attack the nearest settlement. Of course, that game was never anything but concept, but I still think it was a cool idea.

Sidenote: Another cool idea was the skaven race was to be played by the developers. So any time you saw a skaven in a city, you knew trouble was coming. Again…concept; but still cool.

Nothing makes the world more boring and breaks immersion more than NPC’s standing still doing nothing.

Living breathing world? I don’t think so.

Sorry folks, we still haven’t figured out how to do that yet.

Malediktus.9250:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

I feel in a lot of ways it is a living/breathing world. The sounds and the conversations in the background make it feel that way. It’s one example. And yeah, of course they repeat, because you know, no company has unlimited funds for voice acting.

But if you follow NPCs, there’s quite a lot going on that you never see if you dont’ follow them. A lot of event chains go for quite a while, and interact with each other. I think it was one of the guys from MMORPG.com that made a great video about dynamic events, and what makes them dynamic.

And sure they’re scripted. This is a program. Everything is scripted. Even AI is ultimately scripted.

The difference is in most MMOs when guys are supposed to invade a town, they really don’t. They just stand around and you have to kill ten of them to stop them from invading a town. In Guild Wars 2, when guys invade a town, you have to fight them off and you see the town being invaded. You see structures destroyed, and when the town is liberated the structures are rebuilt.

Compared to most MMOs, this is a living breathing world. It’s closer to living and breathing and than other MMO I’ve played, and I’ve played quite a few. But in the end, there are still budgetary and programming limits to what any game company can do.

MMOs are evolving. But it may be another ten years before you get the kinds of worlds your after.

Winfernal.9208:

Malediktus.9250:

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

All games are “scripted events here and there”…

In some ways, i agree. But what did you expect? Skynet like AI? Learning NPCs?

I expected that NPC realism and smartness in behaviour would be better than that in GW1. Which it isn’t. Isn’t that kinda weird, and contradictory with their advertising?

Malediktus.9250:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

There’s no such thing as a living breathing world other than the real one. If you want that in this game, you get rid of all NPCs and just have players running the economy and politics of Tyria. Then we would have to set up a legal system to enforce property rights on loot. Oh and permanent death so you have to create an entirely new character. This game should be more like EVE online.

Veldan.4637:

Winfernal.9208:

Malediktus.9250:

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

All games are “scripted events here and there”…

In some ways, i agree. But what did you expect? Skynet like AI? Learning NPCs?

I expected that NPC realism and smartness in behaviour would be better than that in GW1. Which it isn’t. Isn’t that kinda weird, and contradictory with their advertising?

Did they advertise that it was better than GW1?

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

There are not enough creatures, for example a group of jutons are standing around a patch of carrots they are farming. If I am careful enough I can get in, get the carrots and get out. In GW1 i would have to worry because they would be farming, they would be walking about, they would be guarding – not just standing there.

This goes for npc’s in towns and cities, a lot of them, especially merchants, just stand around. Don’t they have other people to go see? things to do?

In oblivion and skyrim you had wondering creatures and npc’s the same could easily be don here. instanced or not.

As for the issue with dungeons and fractals, no im sorry, enemies just stand in their rooms or their spots, they don’t patrol the dungeon.

Winfernal.9208:

Malediktus.9250:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, you had instanced areas, not persistent areas. It makes all the difference in the world. Because enemies never spawned in Guild Wars 1, they couldn’t patrol. Naturally, in instances in Guild Wars 2, like dungeons, enemies do patrol.

But when you add in the respawn rate in the open world with what a patrol would do (hint: people already complain about the respawn rate in certain areas), then patrols are much harder to predict.

At any rate, there are some creatures that patrol, including the giants in Orr.

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

All games are “scripted events here and there”…

In some ways, i agree. But what did you expect? Skynet like AI? Learning NPCs?

No what I expect is like GW1, where they roamed, some, like some do now, even hunted or engaged other enemies in the patrol path.

Where I see a group of dredge, I can easily take one on, and leave the other 60 alone…..that doesn’t seem right.

there are definitely patrols in the game.

kokocabana.8153:

Veldan.4637:

Winfernal.9208:

Malediktus.9250:

It doesnt. GW2 was advertised as a living, breathing world. It isnt. Just a few scripted events here and there, nowhere near enough to give that feeling.

All games are “scripted events here and there”…

In some ways, i agree. But what did you expect? Skynet like AI? Learning NPCs?

I expected that NPC realism and smartness in behaviour would be better than that in GW1. Which it isn’t. Isn’t that kinda weird, and contradictory with their advertising?

Did they advertise that it was better than GW1?

That’s a good question. I don’t think I ever actually heard them say it would be better than GW1. Oh well, that’s what we get for not paying attention and just automatically assuming a sequel would be better than the original.

There are many ways in which GW2 is better than GW1.

Ghell the raptors during the raptor farm. You knew kitten was about to come down when you agroed 2 groups…

i dont care about some, i care about all – like in gw1 when ALL enemies patrolled.

You obviously aren’t observant enough or don’t stop long enough to study the enemy. I have, a habit from gw1 I guess. You had to, at least in hard mode, or you died when patrols crossed paths and mobbed you.

Sure, in gw2, they’re not all patrolling but I’ve completed every map 8 times and I’ve seen every type of enemy have some patrols here and there. I’ve noticed small groups in Orr too since the last update that are now patrolling short distances. Centaurs always did where ever they appear, so do many others, but you also got to realise some are simply guarding things and don’t move.

Suddenly, the world doesn’t feel that dynamic any more….

As someone already mentioned, the fact that GW1 was instanced and balanced around your group (no matter if made by players or one player with bots) makes a huge difference. In GW1 mobs were organized into packs and it was part of the challenge to pull those packs separately (unless you had a team composition which could handle more). You had all the time in the world to figure this out. I could enter an area with 6 packs of patroling mobs. Wait a bit, pull and kill 2 of them, then go AFK for a dinner and get back to continue. By that time nothing would respawn, nobody would come and kill anything or body pull something on me. It was my sandbox to experiment in.

GW2 however uses persistent world. You will come into interaction with other players. You are also alone and not with 7 AI controlled helpers. In GW1 mob packs that you pulled could had more complex interactions (like they healed, buffed or ressed themselves) becouse you had means to counter that with your team build. In GW2 you will fight with 2-3 mobs at maximum and on some classes mostly pick them one by one. Add to that the chaotic element of rapid respawns and it becomes clear that the complexity of GW1 mob pulls would just not work in GW2.

I agree that it feels like some sort of loss but this is a price to pay for the persistent and open world. If you would ask me, I would prefer the instanced solo style of GW1. I liked that system more and I think it offered more immersion and challenge. But nowadays general population wants that persistent world. If GW2 had GW1’s system, lots of people would complain that it is a “stupid single player game” (like they did on GW1). So I accept the reality. Bottom line is, less complex enemies are needed to make the multi-player persistent world working as intended.

it doesnt matter that gw 1 was instanced or not. why do they not patrol here.

Stop trolling Salacious. Awe just provided a reasonable explanation on why they do not patrol like they do in GW1 and you just keep complaining.

If you really look at Awe’s post, he doesn’t really explain anything of why there are no patrols here.

There’s quite a few patrols of wandering mobs in GW2. It’s true though that the majority of mobs just stand around scratching themselves, but saying that there are no patrols at all is false.

plenty of patrols in other zones just haven’t gotten there yet, Orr comes to mine but yeah they should have more.

I think the problem is real estate. If a lot of mobs patrol (there are already patrolling mobs) given the density of mobs , players will be attacked left and right. By the time you finish off the first mob you might aggro 2 more and when you finish those the first one respawned and repeat until you are dead. Just imagine the old orr but worse.